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http://tech.vw.com/audipdf/a010002.pdf
Once again, download it, then open it. It is likely to fail otherwise.
They're all really nice cars; I think most people can find a lot to like about each. For what it's worth, here's what I found:
Acura 3.2TL: HUGE bang for the buck. Honda reliability, excellent power train, unobtrusive but rather boring styling, excellent navigation system standard xenon headlights. On the downside, dull interior with cheap plastics and fake wood, incomplete instrumentation, poor color choices (they make a green car and a black interior, but they won't combine the two!), no fog lights, no telescoping wheel, no heated REAR seats. Conclusion: It's a nice car, but it's boring and doesn't have any "soul".
Volvo S80: Nice styling in that it dares to be different (from other Volvos, at least). Choice of two nice engines. Excellent sound systems, optional nav system ($2500), definite luxury feel. I really like the B pillar-mounted rear air vents and the outside mirror-mounted security lighting. Excellent color choices. Downsides: Transmissions only have 4 speeds, no manual shifting on 2.9, no xenon headlights, fake wood trim, no heated rear seats, incomplete instrumentation, HUGE torque steer on T6.
Audi A6: Love the styling or hate it, it looks like nothing else out there. Personally, I love it. The interior has no equal, period. Full instruments (including oil temp and voltmeter), GORGEOUS red & white interior lighting (again, in a class by itself), real wood (choice of 2 types), available 6-speed manual (2.7T), 5-speed Tiptronic standard in all versions, puddle lights, F+R fog lights, power lumbar supports, headlight washers. There are really too many "little things" that the other cars don't have to list. Then there's the available quattro, heated F+R seats, xenon headlights. Audi-paid scheduled maintenance for 4 yrs./50,000 miles.
In my view, the Audi is a no-brainer. After reading many posts here and at AudiWorld.com before I finally ordered, it seemed that the only A6s that would not offer disappointing performance were the 2.7T and 4.2. My problem was that, after crunching the numbers, I could choose between a nicely-equipped 2.8Q or a 2.7T with essentially no options. I decided to test drive a 2.8Q and was very pleasantly surprised. While it certainly does not have the sheer acceleration of the other two, it still has plenty. I ordered the 2.8Q and have never regretted it. Equally-equipped, a 2.7T would have been another 4 or 5 thousand, and that would have been a deal breaker for me. My suggestion: if you can swing the 2.7T or even the 4.2 and value their exemplary performance, go for it. You won't regret it. If those cars present an uncomfortable reach, though, and you would prefer to not spend the extra money, take a 2.8 for a drive and decide for yourself if it meets your needs. Stand on the gas pedal and see how it feels. Do the same thing at passing speeds. I think you'll be amazed.
As for the Bose, listen to it as well as the standard system (with a few of your favorite CDs) before you decide. As near as I can tell, about half the people here prefer each system. It's by no means a given that you'll like the Bose better. Personally, I'm an avid home audiophile, and I like the sound out of the standard system better than that of the Bose.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
- Mike
Mike, what do you listen to at home, and what specifically did you like better about the basic audio system? I can certainly believe that a more expensive system, could be merely high powered and not high quality. What's the story here (hear)?
Roger
After setting the tone controls in both systems for what was "optimum sound" for my ear, I found the Bose bass to be "muddy" (as opposed to "tight" and "controlled"). It wasn't necessarily more "intense" than that of the standard system, it just wasn't as "clean". (I'm assuming that we both use those words to describe similar phenomena.) While I certainly wouldn't call the sound quality of the standard system "audiophile" quality, I prefer it to that of the Bose mainly because of its low end. The bass is really pretty good, and certainly the "cleanest" I've heard in a factory system (except, perhaps, the Lexus Nakamichi system).
In addition, the Bose system imaging is such that the music comes from behind the front seats. That, to me, sounds quite unnatural. The imaging on the standard system is more traditional, with a stronger front stage presence.
At home, I actually listen to music through 3 different systems. The main one consists of McIntosh C36, MC7300, MC2125; Infinity Kappa 9s; Sony ES CD players (2); Denon TU680NAB; Nakamichi CR3A. It's certainly not equipment of the insane variety, but it's a notch or 2 above "mid-fi".
Another note or two, Roger...
1. Regardless of which system you choose, the head unit is the same. Only the speakers and amplifiers are system-specific.
2. If you anticipate making any mods (amp OR speakers), stay away from the Bose; on that system, the Bose speakers and amps cannot be used without each other. Replace one, and you must replace the other. At that point, you've eliminated all that you spent the extra $750 for.
3. I listen to pop/rock, jazz, and classical in my car. After 2 months of ownership, I'm very happy with the standard system. I may add a new amplifier, as I've read quite a few posts at AudiWorld.com that doing so (while leaving the factory speakers intact) dramatically improves the sound. We'll see.
4. If you can let me know what types of music you listen to in your car, I'll gladly suggest a few "test CDs" for you.
5. I don't have the optional CD changer and I don't miss it. It's really nice being able to just pop in what I want to listen to by using the dash-mounted player. If you decide that you want the changer, you can buy it on-line for $299.95 ($250 less than M.S.R.P.) from http://www.clair.com. The car comes pre-wired and you can install the changer yourself in less than 30 minutes.
Good luck, Roger!
- Mike
As a reference point, I can't stand Bose as a company and most of their products stink sound-wise. I was pleasantly surprised from that angle with the Audi/Bose system. It also creams many other Bose systems, for example the poor systems in the TT and C5 Vette.
I hate to see things like such as the FAQ on replacing Bose speakers on www.audiworld.com. The fellow who did this noticed he was suprised that the speakers in the Bose system were 1/3rd the weight of the speakers he was replacing them with! He said Bose was obviously cheaping out on him. Of course, he didn't have a gauss meter handy, so he didn't notice the Bose speakers are rare-earth magnets and put out a field equivalent to the speakers he replaced them with.
Anyway, definitely do not buy the factory changer unless you are completely afraid of electrical stuff. There are instructions on www.audiworld.com on how to install the CD changer yourself and save a bundle. Even if you do buy the changer from the dealer, buy it in a separate transaction as an add-on to avoid paying DMV registration fees on the cost of the changer over the lifetime of the car. Any add-ons you buy with the car add to the price of the car which the DMV taxes you on. Any you buy later aren't subject to these taxes.
Finally, putting tape over the port on the Bose subwoofer has helped with the muddiness for some people. I can't imagine that's really a high-grade solution though.
Acura 3.2TL:
Yes, what a deal. It is a very good car, almost with the pack of $40K cars (from C&D's review), yet it costs just over $30K. I toyed with the idea for a while, but I just don't like Honda interiors. They are plasticky. The 3.2TL shares this problem. Still, quite peppy, very reliable, and comfortable. And cheap.
Thanks for the response. Were those Mac's tube components in your home system? I have a VTL amp myself, with Proac response IIs, a passive line stage and Altis reference transport and D/A converter. Had a Velodyne 15 inch sub years ago, but sold it. Wonderful base, but cost me some transparency.
I can believe the Bose bass is muddy, and that would be a major problem for me. I like blues, jazz and classical, and a muddy low end can ruin everything. I could very well replace the whole system later anyway, so unless the sound I hear is dramatically different from what you heard, I'll stick with the base system (at least for now).
I also prefer popping a CD into the dash. I have a 10 disk changer now and rarely use it.
Thanks for the help.
Roger
Since there are so many comments, ideas and thoughts out there, I decided I would jump into a few issues.
First, for all of you discussing "wind" noise at 70mph and above...all I can say is it must be nice having the ability to go that fast in your part of this beautiful country we call America. For me, here in Atlanta Georgia, my Average Speed that last two tank fulls has been about 28mph!!
Our traffic sucks, so I spend the majority of my commute fiddling with all the buttons and gizmos inside my new Audi 2.7T.
Second, regarding good deals...My car has the Conv. Pkg, Two-tone Leather seating (vanilla/onyx), Bose, Xenon, 6-CD Changer, Tiptronic and Racing Green Pearl exterior color.
I leased this 2000 machine for $625/mo on a Cap Cost of $40,500 with $0 down, no security dep, and the 12K mileage limit. Is this a good deal...don't know, don't care...since I'm having a blast driving this car.
Third, regarding the twin-turbo performance and reliability... with a 39 month lease (all covered under warranty) I don't see a concern... Just drive the damn car and you'll see what a "blast" you'll have.
Fourth, on the Quattro questions... I can tell you this car handles like a dream... My Audi Service guy tells me that the Q-system will remove power from the wheels and automatically back off the throttle (despite what the driver's foot is doing) to prevent the tires from breaking loose. Way Cool!!!!
Finally, I am glad to hear all of you who are as excited to finally see something other than a BMW 528 or Lexus GS series "tooling" around your neighborhood. I've had several folks stop and ask me all sorts of questions about my new A6 2.7T. I am glad to report I am fully satisfied.
Chow....
I've had the Audi dealer replace the driver side sun-visor (Homelink option) because I'm hearing a "bumble bee" like buzzing noise emitting from the damn thing.
First, I thought the buzzing noise was coming from inside the headliner (above the driver's visor), or possibly from the left front window pillar.
The Audi Service guy says that 90% of the time the buzzing noise is traced back to the Homelink Visor.
Since replacing I've noticed the noise is "sort of gone", but I still hear a muffled version of the buzzing...
Before I have the visor replaced for the 2nd time I was wondering if anybody else is experience this problem? If so, what have you done about it...other than turning the radio volume up!
Thanks
I talked to the auto glass company and had them order me a new windshield. I insisted they get me an actual Audi windshield, instead of a PPG one the put in fords...
After a week of waiting I took my car in. They called me back latter to tell me the windshield wouldn't fit, they had to order another. When I asked if they could put the old windshield in they said it was damaged when they pulled it off.
So my car will be out for a week while I drive a 2000 Lumina. If you really want to appreciate your car...go drive a Lumina...my poor poor Audi
I wish that were the case. It appears Audi shipped a windshield across the pond for me, and it is as distorted as the old one.
Bleeck.
Maybe in a couple years I'll buy my own PPG replacement to finally fix these distortions.
What are you paying/being quoted for the 2.8? A little above invoice? $2,000 above? $2,500 above?
Would love to have some input on this one, as my earlier post noted that w/options I want, the 2.8 nears $40K but the 2.7T jumps to $45+.
From what comments I have recieved back, it seems most concurr that the Acura 3.2TL is a step below, the Volvo S80 is priced equal w/less "nicities" and performance. I think I have made up my mind on the A6 2.8 (besides...with a 11 month old son in the back, I don't want him to get whiplash w/the 2.7T he he he). You can send me e-mail on pricing if you want:
atemp123@aol.com
Thanks in advance for all the info and tips!
I'm not too sure about this year, last year they had a few rebates.
good luck
Heres the "poop" as I've heard it. Audi maybe dealing other places, but not really here in Atlanta, GA...
I was blessed to get the last 2000 model off the show room floor (with all the options I wanted), before the 2001 models arrived. I got a heck of a deal on my A6 2.7T Quattro, plus the money factor from Audi Finance was superb.
2001 models are going up in price. And since A6 ownership has become a hot commodity lately, Audi seems to be sticking to their MSRP pricing.
Going with the 2.7T automatically gets you the Quattro system. That alone "jacks" up the MSRP near $43K. Then throw in Bose, Xenon and CD changer (maybe even Warm-Weather package) and you are pushing $45Kplus.
If you don't mind "renting" the vehicle instead of outright ownership...go with a three year lease. I mean...even though its an Audi, all cars depreciate. Why would you want to pay cash or finance a depreciating asset?
Audi Finance can even do the following:
Say you had enough "dough" to pay cash up front for your new Audi A6, Audi Finance could do an up front "total" lease whereby you essentially pay your three year total lease payment now (say about $27K). Then you simply put the rest of your money (the balance between the Cap Cost and the Residual Value) in the bank or stock market to earn a better yield.
Check this out if you are a serious lease maker.
Regards....
Now I can't wait to get the car!
I Bought my 2.7 silver with Onyx from
Laurel in Westmont in June.
My Salesman was Art Rodrieguiz.
He was a pretty good guy, but to be honest the cars sell themselves.
As Most 2.7's it was pretty much loaded.
Cold weather, Sunroof, Bose, Zenons ( got to have them).
I went t three dealers in the Chicago Area.
(1) The Exchange in Highland Park.
(2) Lober Downtown.
(3) Laurel in Westmont.
Pricing was pretty Comparable.
The difference was the 2.7's from Lober and
The exchange Had the Navigation on them and they
wanted to discount them,but It still cost more.
From what I understand the Nav is a waste of Money
Also I live in Lyons, so the Dealer in Westmont made the most sence. (Versus driving to Highland
Park for service.)
As for Left over 2.7's. GOOD LUCK.
They were the hottest Audi seller this summer.
In fact , Last week in the trib there was not
even (1) for sale.
One suggestion though, There is a new and from
what I understand a Big Dealer in Naperville
that is owned by the Continental Group.
Whether that is Good, Im not sure.
One final Thing. If you decide on the A6.
It Must be a 2.7 That is the NO Brainer of your life.
One Minor Complaint. I am still getting used to
the Stiff seats. I guess in the end it is the best
But After My "Couch" in my olds it is a little
adjustment.
Hope this helps.
Tom
How does it hold up? etc!!!
Does anybody know what it is and has anyone bought an Audi with it? I test drove the A4 2.8 at EdmundsLive event and (I think) it was real leather, but it might have been leatherette.
Please educate this "seat" fool.
A4 1.8Ts are unavailable with leather in the US, yet many people want them to tweak them. As such, there are plenty of A4 drivers who have leatherette. Many more than A6 drivers. So go ask the A4 folks, you'll get tons of answers.
Although leatherette is standard on A6s with the Ambition and Ambiente atmospheres, I've never seen one so-equipped; I'd guess that of the hundreds of A6s I've seen at dealers in the past 8 months, 98% have had leather and the rest cloth (standard in the Advance atmosphere).
F.Y.I., leatherette is vinyl. It looks like leather but is "perforated" with minute holes for better breathing. It's available in satin black, maroon, and melange. Reports from A4 owners say that it looks good and wears well.
Good luck on a great car!
Anyone with any ideas where to start? Dealer says that computer reveals nothing out of the ordinary.
Tmayer1, if you don't mind, where were you compared with ported's numbers?
My question is this. What do you use to keep the rubber seals around the windows clean and protected? I have heard not to use Armour All or like products. Any Ideas?
Thanks
http://www.audiworld.com/
There are some folks there who are heavy duty techies and share their knowledge.
It could also be a tire out of balance, or freak road surfaces, but that is inconsistent with any kind of groaning sound. I would be particularly concerned about that. Good luck!
I think the lack of a hold back from Audi makes the deals pretty straight-forward. Good luck!
Ported
The car is a base model (no options) with the 6-speed. I've put 350 miles on the car with no problems. I haven't noticed any distortion in the windshield, but while wearing polarized sunglasses I noticed some distortion in the side and rear windows.
Yesterday I took it for a drive up Angels Crest Hwy. Wow. I'm trying to break the car in and I'm not accelerating hard or revving very high, but the car still drove amazingly well.
When I first drove the car the amount of initial body roll surprised me and made me think that it may not corner that well. Body roll aside, I feel that the car holds the road very well. On Angel's Crest, I reached my limits before reaching the cars. Maybe I drive slow, but the stock tires seemed to grip plenty well to me.
Well, that's the 350 mile report!
2001 A6 2.7T Ming/melange (Tip)
Premium, Preferred Luxury, Cold Weather, Bose
all @ $1197 over invoice (I'm in the Baltimore/Washington market, and shopped this around to 6 different dealers). Took delivery of a car "fresh off the boat" with 7 miles on it.
My friends are very jealous.
Thanks again to all. Now that I actually have the car, I'll report back every so often with progress reports.
I got my '00 A62.7T back today after nearly five weeks and am happy to report that the car finally runs and sounds like it should have when I first got it. I guess that all's well that ends well.
It's no M5 in cornering, but it does quite well.
Go back and drive them both and then decide which meets your needs better. Then decide if the deal is the best you can get (It sounds pretty good to me, but you should factor a full year's depeciation even though it only has 7500 miles).
I have always said that my '90 Honda Accord was the best car I ever owned, despite being much cheaper than some of them. So far, the A6 is making me forget all about the Accord.
My only problem thus far is an occasional squeak from the headliner above the rear view mirror. Everything else is just perfect.
My question for you Long Islanders: Since I leased through a broker who found my car all the way up near Albany, I don't have a local dealer relationship for service. I live and work about halfway between Audi of Huntington and Biener, but it's not much further to Legend or Anchor.
Where should I get my car serviced? My 6-month service is coming up next month, so it's time to make an appointment. Look forward to hearing from some of you.
Ever pull the trigger? Would love to know what you ended up with, the deal, etc.
Ported
Also- when you compute the true interest rate, (money factor x 2400) it should be near the going rate to buy a car. I have seen deals with low cost and then high m.f. so they get their money one way or another! Take your time and read everything carefully. Don't lease for longer than the warranty!
By the way, my neighbors bought from Rusnak in Pasadena and speak VERY highly of them, and I have been treated well at Keyes Audi in Van Nuys (but not bought yet). Good Luck!