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Comments
I was reading today's Wall Street Journal and I came across an article in the Personal Journal Section.The article is about how Auto Dealers are ruining the RESALE value on used car.
The incentives and 0% financing they are offering according to the article is depreciating the value of the used car market.
What stood out to me was the Mazda Millenia S, they are saying that on a 2000 "S"- the trade in value is worth $13,608.00, meaning the car lost 55.5% of its value.
I don't think that's correct because when I turned in my 1999 Millenia "P", the residual was in the $14,000.00 dollar range.
Has anyone tried to trade in their 2000 "S",and if you did what is the trade in value?
There is only one bulb in that A/C control unit. If the ring around the temp dial glows it is working as intended.
2001-2002
There is a separate bulb for the defroster switch.
Acknowledging that the Millenia is not state of the art it still is exceptionally well equipped, comfortable and stylish and there is little if anything that can be bought in the 22-23K range that competes with it.
The question remains as to whether resale might be a deterrant to buying this car. With the general used car market in free fall because of heavy new car sales I don't believe the Millenia will be that much worse than most in the resale area. My Galant going off lease is worth 2K less than the residual. Sure Toyotas and Hondas may do better but most cars don't. I just heard today that a two year old Taurus has depreciated from 18K to 8K. Given the liklihood that this car will be reliable and therefore, I'll probably keep it 3-4 years at least I don't think resale will be crucial.
So, if it was bought for $26,000 and after 3 model years it is worth $14,000 - depreciation is $4,000 year. Not bad, something like $340/month.
Simple math!
Tomek
2000 Millenia S - Retail $30695 - Trade $13603
2000 Maxima GXE - Retail $21569 - Trade $11592
As we all know, Millenia S can be bought all day long for less than $25000, and you will be hard pressed to find a GXE for $21569. These figures are wildly misleading because they DO NOT reflect the actual purchase prices of these cars. If you don't believe that, go to the respective dealers and price them.
Tomek
But don't you think that is a bit low for the "S" model?
Trade-in value is a relative thing (it varied from 6K to 8.5K on my 95 Passat) closely tied to margins on the new car you're getting. The bottom line is what counts.
On the other hand, KBB comes up with "Used Car Retail Value" (i.e. buying used from a dealer) for same 2000 Mill S as $21.8K. Nice spread from trade-in (if they can get it).
Tomek
I am looking for a comfortable, quick car for long distance driving. My previous car was an Acura Integra sedan, which I really enjoyed. It was extremely reliable and I see that Mazda appears to be so as well.
Comments for this newbie most appreciated.
Sprocketboy
Good luck.
If you are going to trade cars every three years it is obviously important to buy a car with high trade in value at that point. Better yet, buy a three year old car and let somebody else take the first 50% drop.
On the other hand. If like me you will be keeping that new car several years, say seven or so, the trade in value holds no importance whatsoever.
In addition, if you have a strong enough preference for a given car, it might well be worth the higher depreciation to drive what you want.
I am personally lucky in this respect. I find the Millenia a very pleasant and desirable car, and at the same time I plan to run it down to where it's wheel bearings are exposed (well, not quite that far). I feel special just knowing people see me in it, and listening to their comments about what a great looking car it is. MM is also an extremely reliable car as proven by all reliability ratings to be found anywhere. How can I possibly go wrong. Even the low depreciation cars lose close to half their value in two or three years. I'll drive what feels good to drive and be seen in, not what I think might gain me a few dollars several years down the road.
For those worried about extra depreciation of a couple of thousand dollars after 3 or four years there is always the Camry. As for me, gimme an MM anyday.
Well I think that is a crock for the most part. I have researched and driven numerous near luxury-entry level luxury cars and frankly the Millenia has very few things lacking that they possess (maybe a little less HP). For example, the Millenia comes with among other things, power moonroof, leather, steering wheel radio controls, power-memory tilt steering, EBD, ABS, climate control,
traction control and heated seats (Four Seasons Pkg.) and every conceivable power feature. It also has been upgraded in 2001 with much stronger torsional rigidity (for improved NVH), upgraded suspension, state of the art insulation to improve quietness as well as astheitic improvements.
I have reviewed equipment and features on cars like the Volvo S60, Infiniti G35, I35, Saab 9-3 and Jag X-type and most have less features or at the most equal features and all are much more expensive (8-12K).
I think these reviews are all about the automotive writer's feeling that new and better means "just out" and just because a car has been around for 7 years it can't be nearly as good as the one that came out last year. I've labored long and hard making a choice and since money is an object to me there is nothing that comes close to the Millenia.
They remind me of the stock market "specialists". None of them know anything past how fast the car will go and how big a number they can get on a skidpad. That information is worthless to most of us. There is noplace we can take advantage of the on the edge performance they make their primary point in judging a car.
I have found virtually all of the testers lean almost entirely to horsepower and acceleration first, then the important criteria second.
All I can say to someone who would reject a car like the Millenia based on the grudging reporting of a bunch of leadfoots, is "go for that hotrod". Leave the few MM's left for people who can appreciate a beautiful and immaculately built car at the price of a mediocre CamCord.
I agree, give me reasonable performance, a beautiful and well equipped interior and a stylish body at an extremely reasonable cost and you've got my business. I just checked out several MM competitors and every one had an astronomical lease payment. I thought to myself why on earth would I want to spend that kind of money when the Millenia gives me everything those cars have that I care about at a 10 grand discount.
With one month left on my lease I'm closing in on a deal. Have had offers of $22,500 and $22,160 but think there should be a little more. I'm thinking of asking asking that my last lease payment be paid as part of the deal (due this week) if not, I might as well get my money's worth and wait a few more weeks. I've seen at least 8-10 in colors that I like at several dealers so I don't think availability will be a problem.
Since my lease expires November 6th I thought perhaps after the first of the month we might see an additional cash incentive what with the Mazda 6 due out around then. Any thoughts on that possibility?
Also, I think the black is gorgeous, but I know it suffers a lot when dirty. Also like the silver but feel it's much less elegant looking than the black. Several available in both colors so I may have to flip a coin.
BTW, a used 2000 Millenia S is advertised between 16 to 20 grand here in SoCal.
cayennered1, either color that you pick would be nice. I always thought that silver is the best color for 2001-2002 Millenia, but black as you said; looks elegant, especially when it's clean :-).
IMO, it just depends on how much time you want to devote to keeping your new MM looking great. While the Platinum hides the light colored Florida dirt, a black car here is like a dirt magnet.
I don't mind some time devoted to keeping my cars clean, but I did reject the black because it would be almost impossible to keep nice. Whatever you get, do not wash in circles. Always use a straight line pattern and plenty of water. This is very important especially if you decide on black. It will show swirls terribly, and once you get the swirls in the paint it is almost impossible to eliminate them without going to a body shop or good detailer. Both expensive options.
To comment on the testers, when I sold the MM in 1994 we sold the S in the $34-36K range, the testers were very high on this car then. Now that the competition has finally caught up the MM can be offered for much less. Also don't let the 210 hp fool you, if you compare the torque to other the MM S comes out on top most of the time. I recently walked away from a 240 hp super charged Grand Prix from a dead stop up to 90 hp.
Go for the MM!!!
However since the Millenia uses much the same drive train as Ford has used in some vehicles, I know that in a pinch, I could find a Blue Oval and likely get some resonable service.
Also I like the styling. It is distinct. NOt many on the road like CamCords.
Only the non-S 2.5L Millenia shares basic engine components with the Probe 2.5L (basically a Mazda MX-6). You would have a hard time finding common parts, I'm sure.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/probemx/index.htm
On a separate note, I have read the comparison test on Edmunds where the poor Millenia comes 9th and last, although the writers' suggest it would make a good value as a used car. I am concerned about the shakes and rattles mentioned. I thought that the Mazda was supposed to be well screwed-together. What gives?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/probemx/index.htm
So tell me, what makes the Millenia a poor value. Is it the fact that it is as well or better equipped than most cars in its class? Is it the fact that it can be purchased for 8-10 thousand dollars less than most of the cars in its class? Perhaps it's because it has an excellant history of reliability. Well, maybe I'm stupid but those things don't sound like a poor value to me.
So what's left to make this car a poor value. Depreciation? Well we've discussed that one in detail and not only doesn't it matter to most of us but it is probably no worse than many cars in its catagory.
Sarcasm aside, I'm amazed at the narrow minded and nearsighted attitude of these auto analysts. Apparently the real world is not part of their job description.
Fortunately, the average consumer does deal with the real world which makes those who look seriously at the Millenia see real world "value".
It also doesn't have the 500 HP V-12 engine attached to a 6 speed manual that these testers think is so necessary to reinforce their manhood, while they watch their Nav system instead of the road they are driving on.
A few reality minded testers would improve the situation, but there don't seem to be any of those working for the Car magazines and web sites.
These guys actually get paid for this?
Any questions or comments should be addressed to me off-line.
Thanks.
For me, I'm actually thinking of changing my '00 Millenia's tail light with those on the '01-'02 model. Now these arre a bit different. The other tail lights looks like it will fit without a problem as the shape is the same, but the inner tail lights and the lic plate holder has different shape, so I would have to get both the tail lights set and the lic plate holder. Last time I check, dealer price for all these are about $1700; ouch. So if anyone doesn't like their '01-'02 tail light and prefer the ones on '99-'00 model, let's trade :-), hey I can dream can't I.
Also, again, I don't think they can be combined, but can the 0% go with the 180 days deferred payment for college grad?
The word is Mazda is killing the Millenia line with the 2002 run. Shades of the '90 929 I had and loved.
Yours could be a collectors item in six months or -----------?
Buying this car is all about what you perceive as the value of the vehicle. Specifically, things like reliability, styling, high level of equipment and or course, what it costs to buy. I can imagine those who paid 30K plus a few years ago won't be happy if they want to trade in in the next year or two. By contrast, buying within the last year or so with the great deals available should do a lot to mute any weakness in resale a few years out.
I actually saw an ad for a lease deal today. $269/mo. with $2300 at signing. I don't go for up front money but figure that might be something like $325/mo. with just first payment. Lease is 48 mo., a little long. Still $350 (tax inc.) with no worry about depreciation might be appealing. Anyway, I'll probably check it out.
So many deals out there now it makes it hard to decide. Most on cars I don't want, but with prices and payments so low it makes you wonder whether you should take advantage of the deals and spend less.
Well, this is not true. An October 9, 2002 press release by Mazda has just announced a new luxury package for the 25M (2.5 V6) model of the Millenia. It includes a Bose stereo and navigation system. Also two new paint colors one of which is the silver from the Atenza. If nothing else the continued manufacture of the vehicle should bode well for parts availability down the road.
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/public/200210/1009e.html
However, it says only in Japan. If they are still going to make it, why not still import it here? Or is this going to be another RX7 thing that will be pulled from the US?
If Nissan can get away with the Altima and Maxima, why shouldn't Mazda try?
http://www.millenia.mazda.co.jp/interior.html
I like the shape of the Japanese steering wheel better. I don't think they have the Miller Cycle engine available there though. Wouldn't it be cool if everyone (esp the Mags) had been wrong and they did continue to bring it over here and with some new goodies?
However, just to add some improvements-
Make it 3.0 engine with around 220-230 HP.
Interior cabin a little more spacious.
Thats all.
OTOH if it had been selling well I wouldn't have gotten the bargain basement price I got on mine.
If they continue it in Japan though it does bode well for parts availability even if it is necessary to order them from Japan.
Mine looks identical to the one on the home page of that link, minus the front plate. They also have a reflector stuck on the front fender, must be a Japanese requirement. Glad mine doesn't have it.
http://www.millenia.mazda.co.jp
I don't care for the tan and gray interior though.
I can use synthetic oil, and it should not be a problem. I have used it for the last 3000 miles, and it is still running fine. I hope to match the 12K miles between changes that I get out of my BMW.
I have the same problem with the check engine light that many of you posted about. I just ignore it, and it usually goes off in a day or two.
Has anyone other than 95 owners run into a problem with the waterpump? I am just trying to prepare for this. It seems that whenver I go in for a big repair, something else will go wrong with the car so I am reluctant to do much preventive care other than oil and spark plug changes and tire maintenance.
The oil change place is pushing for a Radiator flush, and a transmission flush. Anyone had any of these things done lately. Did you have any other problems pop up afterwords??