Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

andrelaplume · February 2002

Thanks, I do feel better hearing that the Toyota mufflers will last longer than 62K and my wife's driving is stop and go but that is the nature of our lifestyle. We do get the car out at highway speeds at least once a month. Doesn't $410 sound like a lot of $$$ though. What is the cost on a CAMRY - - I guess I am trying to determine if the cost is inherent to the RAV or Toyotas in general.

sebring95 · February 2002

I personally don't know the cost on a Camry as I've never had to replace one. A doctor friend lived 1/4 mile from the Hopital and all those 1 minute trips destroyed the muffler in about 4 years on his Honda. I don't remember the cost but it seemed very expensive. I think you'll find most mufflers to be very expensive these days because they are made from much better materials that last a long time. I would say 30 years ago no vehicle would go 200K on a steel muffler, but that's routine today. I haven't replaced a muffler on ANY vehicle since 1988 if I remember correctly. But I drive 30K-50K per year so they get plenty of use. Either way I don't think you'll find $100 muffler jobs these days.

wain · February 2002

in south carolina mufflers and whatever pipe comes with it are under $200 at a Toy dealer.
My 94 still has the orig muffler at 94K

cliffy1 · February 2002

First, you would be shocked at what people allow to happen to $30K cars. Second, you would be shocked at how infrequently we hear of a sludged engine. Finally, when we do gets a sludged engine, it is pretty obvious why it happened.

Should you choose to buy the 2002 SE (which I think is a great choice by the say), be anal about oil changes. Do them frequently and make sure you are actually getting the oil changes you are paying for. Do that, and you'll have nothing but years of great service.

wain · February 2002

I wonder what prompted Toyota to "mess with" the 4 cyl engine?
Seems like the 92-2001 one was fine.

cliffy1 · February 2002

In a word... power.

alpha01 · February 2002

What are you talking about "mess with"? They didnt mess with anything... our 02 Camry drives like a completely different vehicle (it should, because it is) because of the markedly improved power it affords over our 2000. The car reaches highway speeds much more easily, without have to rev past 4000 rpm from a stoplight to reach 60 on pace with other traffic (Ex- Stop and Go from tolls and lights on the Garden State Parkway and Routes 1 and 9 in NJ). In addition, we get the same fuel economy, it is a cleaner engine by EPA standards AND it is a non-interference/no timing belt engine. I would call that "improved" not "messed with". (I should note that I do still enjoy our 2000, its just not as good a car). About our base soundsystem speakers: we thinkt they are fine, sound just as good as any Toyota system we had before. If you wanted a better system, the JBL is only about what? $300 more MSRP, so you should have gotten that one.
~alpha

wain · February 2002

I was under the impression it had many more aluminum parts compared to the old engines, like maybe the head and/ or block - can some one tell us what changed of those two?

gmusic7 · February 2002

I sent an email to Toyota regarding the low hanging exhaust pipe. Here is the response:

"We appreciate your interest in Toyota and the new 2002 Camry. The shape and location of the exhaust pipe on the 2002 Camry has been placed in its location for several reasons that include aerodynamics, air flow management, and relationship to other connecting parts in the underbody. If you have specific concerns with the exhaust system, please consult with your local Toyota dealer."

I'm not really satisfied with the answer because other automobile makers don't have the exhaust pipe hanging so low in their cars.

elmoblatch1 · February 2002

I am no mechanic, but I suspect that something is wrong with the cataletic converter in the exhaust system if you are getting a sulpher smell....sounds like the dealer needs to try again, or maybe try another toyota dealer.

cliffy1 · February 2002

Well, I hate to ask, but what did you expect them to say? The Toyota exhaust has always hung low at the point where the pipe bends around the rear suspension. It is what it is.

garnes · February 2002

storyteller - In the past, I've had that sulfer smell from the exhaust when the O2 sensor went out on an old beater car. Ask about that.

gmusic7 · February 2002

cliffy1: i'm not surprised by the response. just thought i'd give it a try.

mimi919 · February 2002

I am thinking about buying a new Camry XLE with a 4 cyl.eng and was hoping I could get option package #8 (leather interior and a moon roof)but it seems that only the XLE with a 6 cyl. engine comes with that package.
Does anyone know if that option is available on the 4 cylinder?

raybear · February 2002

Most of the people who want the leather and moonroof also want the V6, so dealers don't stock the car that way in a 4-cyl. Maybe you could get someone to order a car for you.

jrct9454 · February 2002

The '02 Camry 4 is a scaled-up version of the all-alum 4 that has appeared in various guises starting with the '98 Corolla, and the Celica, etc.

For starters, it has an aluminum block - the previous generation was iron. Secondly, it has a timing chain, not a belt. Thirdly, there is the variable valve timing and consequent lower emissions to go with the higher power.

Suffice to say there is practically nothing in common between the 4 cyl Camry engines that prevailed from '87-'01, and this motor. This was a necessary step to keep the car competitive and meet the upcoming CA and national emissions standards.

Staying with the old engine was not an option, so this is not a case of "messing with it"...it was way past its prime and uncompetitive in every respect [Altima with 170 hp, and the next-gen Accord will have similar hp with its new 4 cyl engine].

billincal1 · February 2002

My wife and I are very pleased so far with our new 02 Camry 6cyl. We got it with cloth and I love the extra room the back offers over Honda Accord. The only thing I wish the LE had is the beefier suspension offered in the more expensive leather version XLE? (forgot it's name).. but I couldn't see spending another 2 or 3k.

Toyota seems to want charge out the wazoo for anything over it's base package. The dealer actually expected me to think I was getting a deal by lowering the wood trim option to $500 for simulated wood plastic .... Not complaining though, we just got what we thought was the best package for the least amount of money and enjoy this most quiet car...

Bill in Santa Cruz

wain · February 2002

I guess my concern were about the longevity of the aluminum block. I thought historically most companies had problems with them??
New is not always better.
Time will tell on this change, we will probablyknow more in a year or two.

canadiancl · February 2002

You gotta hand it to a car manufacturer to come up with an explanation like that! Imagine, the exhaust hangs low for aerodynamic and airflow management reasons! Wonder why NASCAR hasn't caught on to this little performance secret yet?! I'm surprised the guy who wrote that reply letter could stop laughing long enough to type it out on his keyboard. For real fun, you should ask a salesperson to try to explain. You should also write back to the same guy and see what he says about the sludge (non)problem. He'd probably tell you it's an intended design to encourage customer compliance with maintenance procedures! LOL

storyteller · February 2002

elmoblatch1 and garnes: Thanks so much. I'll pass this along to my friend and urge him to put more pressure on the dealer. Dealer's response so far has been to tell him to roll up the windows and turn the vent system to recirculate. Again, thanks for the input.

luckystar · February 2002

Interesting how people have been experiencing a sulphur smell coming from the tailpipe. My 2002 LE V6 is periodically (about once every day or two) emitting a sulphur smell from the vents inside the car when I have the heat turned on, and it's really gross. I talked to the dealer and they said it was the gas I was using...I'm not sure if that's it. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!

jrct9454 · February 2002

...Yes, the sulfur smell comes from too much of it in certain brands of fuel. This phenomenon in our cars ceased out here when CA went to its RFG formula, which among other things mandated reduced sulfur levels. Not much you can do except experiment with different fuel brands.

Bill, your suspension and that of the XLE are identical...there is no "beefing up" involved. The only cars in the line with different suspensions are the SEs, which have slightly firmer settings to be "sporty", whatever that may mean in the real world. Of course, 4 cyl and 6 cyl cars have slight differences to compensate for weight, but there are no differences between an LE and XLE. You do get more competent brakes in the XLE, but that only applies to the 4 cyl cars.

tccmn1 · February 2002

I own a Camry which I think has some major deficiencies. Bought in April 97.
#1: Rear cupholder has broken twice. Very cheaply (weakly made) Had it replaced once by dealer, now it just hangs there and they won't replace it again. It was NOT abused, just used.
They changed the style in 98.
#2: Brake grinding and rumbling sound when coming to a stop from fast speeds; the brakes make a grinding noise at times when coming to a stop. Pad's are good (per dealer and others). Can't get that fixed.
#3: Rear door seal (rubber) has come off twice. Dealer re-applied once, but now wants to charge me to replace it.
#4: Creaking in steering wheel when turning (in warm and cold weather). Dealer greased turning gears once, but it didn't do anything. Heard of someone with a 98 that had this same issue and had to have something replaced in the column.
My experience with this "quality" car has not been THAT great. Anyone else share this?

steveb84 · February 2002

Package # 8 is fantastic, esp with the new 4 cylinder. I've ordered a couple for our store and they disappear right away. Hopefully in your area someone has one in stock, if not, they should be able to order.

8u6hfd · February 2002

Engine Changes by jrct9454
It is not a scaled up version of the Corolla motor (ZZ block). The RAV4 motor is a scaled down version of the new Camry motor (AZ block). The engine was available in the Estima a few years ago.

Oil Filters
Toyota oil filters are made primarily by Denso (which Toyota owns about 20% of). Some filters are made by Purolator

Sludge
Toyota raising the enigne operating temperatures, is not a flaw. Thermodynamically for the Otto engine, by increasing the operation temperatures, you increase efficiency. If that's considered to be a design flaw -- it looks like the science of Thermodynamics is flawed also.

Just change the oil over 3000 to 5000 miles and you'll be fine. A shop in Fairfax, VA has a cool motto: "Grease is cheaper than steel"

Spark Plugs
The dual ground on the platinum plugs give increased spark plug life. You can use single ground platinum plugs, but you'll have to change the plugs at 60k miles. You could try the Bosch +2 or +4 for the plug change. They cost a lot cheaper than the Denso plugs.

cliffy1 · February 2002

Are you sure the grinding noise from the brakes isn't the ABS activating?

mimi919 · February 2002

raybear--thank you for your reply I do appreciate it
steve84-it sounds like you work for a toyota dealer and i'm happy to hear that I am not the only one around who would like a 4 cylinder with the leather and slider option.
For the past 15 years I have always leased my cars mostly Riviera's and my last car a Concorde and now with the new higher price lease programs it really doesn't pay to lease anymore so I find myself for the first time in many years concerned about resale value and that is one of the main reasons I am considering a Camry and when I looked it up on the computer and realized that I could buy a loaded XLE with leather and a moon roof for a list of around $25,000 dollars I knew that was the way I wanted to go.
I was a little surprised to hear that Toyota allocates thier shipments rather then take special orders but I was also told that I could put in a preference request with no guarantee toyota will ship it but I feel it's worth the chance as I really would prefer not to pay the extra 3,000 or so for the V-6.
Thanks again for your reply.

tccmn1 · February 2002

Cliffy1 - I had to have the pads, rotors turned,etc. today at the dealer = $200. However, this noise and the rumbling from freeway speeds to a stop have been going on for a year or more. The dealer had no explanation for it. Said it could be the rear drums out of round....but I didn't want to go there today.
Also had that rubber seal re-installed on the rear passenger door and the steering boot re-lubed (both for the 2nd time).
Also, anyone have a puff of smoke at starting their 4cyls. Camrys? Mine gives off a puff when starting cold = dealer said that's "normal" due to oil seeping down the guides...common on the 4's. Nice touch; start up a nice looking vehicle and it has a smoke cloud when you start it up...and it's "normal" for a $20K+ car!! I have 75K miles on it and change oil every 3K.

jbkennedy · February 2002

It is not normal for your 1997 Camry to smoke at start up. The valve stem seals are cracked and I had mine replaced under the powertrain warranty at 50,000 miles. Unfortunately, out of warranty repairs can run up to $1,000, I have been told. If you look at earlier posts, this is not an uncommon problem among 4 cylinder Camrys.

castleowner · February 2002

Just got the camry 02vvti 4cyl, only 4 days old, and already had 2 instances of a sulpher smell from the heat vents.

I AM NOT IMPRESSED!

It can't be the gas, because I still own my 11 year old chevy v6, which still runs, and has never given me a sulpher smell, or any other smell, except from the exhaust from another car. I have not driven over 4000rpm due to break-in period

Does ULEV ensure that occupants don't get all the emissions that aren't going into the tailpipe? (Humor intended)

Otherwise, love the car, very light weight and peppy, and other cars seem to want to drive near me (which I don't appreciate), versus my chevy that people would ignore (I think I prefer that).

armtdm · February 2002

Local dealer is advertising $129.95 for OEM mufflers with lifetime warranty. Not sure if ti specified a model. $400 for a muffler, perhasp they meant the entire exhaust system? But for that to go at 62,000 is strange.

My camry at 143,000 (10 years old next month) has original exhaust system including muffler

andrelaplume · February 2002

I will question the dealer on Muffler Situation when I go in Monday and report back. Again this is for a '96 Rav. Perhaps that vehicle is just more expensive. It's nice to hear the Camry Muffler lasts longer and costs less. Also I heard it's a re-designed muffler for the Rav. What has not been redesigned for this car? I'm not sure about the new model but if you are looking for a used 96 - 01 extremely small SUV, capable of barely holding 4 in any kind of comfort, that accelerates as fast as a bicycle, that hold less than your average trunk, the pings even with a new Engine...then the Rav is for you. Of course, as my wife says...'It looks nice'.

amazon · February 2002

I'm going to look at a 2002 V6 XLE. The Toyota dealer says that they bought it from a fleet seller, and can sell it to me for $26K. The car has all options except Navi, and has ledd than 100 miles on it. This sounds too good to be true to me. What should I be on the lookout for here?

wanna2002 · February 2002

I have just caught up after a brief absence from the board, and read the last few hundred posts and the sludge issue... am I crazy/ignorant to think that it is ok to change my oil on my 2002 XLE V6 every 7500 miles? Did I miss something in the manual that states I should be changing it at 3,000-5,000 miles? I am already at 7100 miles with my first service appointment scheduled for next week. I intend to keep excellent care of my car and from reading the posts re: sludge, it seems I am actually doing a disservice by not spending even more money in between the 7500 interval services? Yikes! Please advise?

mjday1972 · February 2002

Several years ago, I drove a Toyota Corolla that also emitted some noxious sulfer odors. I talked to a Toyota service rep friend of mine and he told me that it was the catalytic converter on that particular model (this was over 10 years ago). I have smelled sulfer on my 2002 Camry and I assumed that it was a similar occurence. I've had my Camry for almost 4 months now, and I haven't smelled it recently. Another possibility is that there are substances that are "cooking off" the engine or exhaust which emit these odors.

wanna2002 · February 2002

I have just caught up after a brief absence from the board, and read the last few hundred posts and the sludge issue... am I crazy/ignorant to think that it is ok to change my oil on my 2002 XLE V6 every 7500 miles? Did I miss something in the manual that states I should be changing it at 3,000-5,000 miles? I am already at 7100 miles with my first service appointment scheduled for next week. I intend to keep excellent care of my car and from reading the posts re: sludge, it seems I am actually doing a disservice by not spending even more money in between the 7500 interval services? Yikes! Please advise?

storyteller · February 2002

mjday: Thanks. I, too, suspect the catalytic converter. I doubt the problem is substances "cooking off" in a new car. That happens, but it doesn't have that distinctive sulfer smell.

mfjj · February 2002

Hi, I'm interested in 02 LE V6, but I like the fog lamps that are standard on the SE. Does anyone know how much I should expect to pay the dealer to put them in?

Sorry if this is an old topic. How does one do a keyword search on this board anyway?

Thanks!

wanna2002 · February 2002

I have just caught up after a brief absence from the board, and read the last few hundred posts and the sludge issue... am I crazy/ignorant to think that it is ok to change my oil on my 2002 XLE V6 every 7500 miles? Did I miss something in the manual that states I should be changing it at 3,000-5,000 miles? I am already at 7100 miles with my first service appointment scheduled for next week. I intend to keep excellent care of my car and from reading the posts re: sludge, it seems I am actually doing a disservice by not spending even more money in between the 7500 interval services? Yikes! Please advise?

pat · February 2002

Welcome. How do you do a key word search on this board? We'd *all* like the answer to that question!

You can do a keyword search through discussion titles using the Board Search feature on the left sidebar of all Town Hall pages. So you could put Camry in that box and find all discussions with "Camry" in the title. That is very helpful when looking to join existing conversations

However, at this time there is no way to effectively search the posts contained within a discussion and get any usable results. You cannot find all posts that contain the word "fog", for example, or any other key word.

We have been promised a resolution to this problem for a long time now. The latest information I have is that it may happen in the May timeframe.

Wouldn't it be nice.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

210delray · February 2002

To take out the front turn signal lens, once the plastic pin is removed, you have to pull it STRAIGHT forward, using considerable force (with your hands, don't use tools).

210delray · February 2002

The sulfur is in the gasoline; some brands will have more than others. I'd recommend trying different brands to see if this solves the problem.

tccmn1 · February 2002

Thanks JBKennedy!
I didn't want to hear this, but you confirmed my fears about the smoke at startup. To think I had TWO local dealers give me the same line. Should I state who? Local St. Paul MN. Toy. dealers - only are two. Anyway, I have the Toy Extended Extra Care on the vehicle...maybe, I'll get lucky. It covers 6 years and 100K miles. If this isn't covered, I've got history of invoices of checkups on this issue. This car is NOT like my old 88 Camry V6, that's for sure!! It proves that the first year of a model is NOT the time to buy it...even if it's a Toy@!!

cliffy1 · March 2002

OK, how do I put this without creating more panic or sounding too optimistic. The Camry 4 cylinder engine is prone to developing leaky valve seals. When this happens, if you leave your car off for several hours, a small amount of oil seeps into the cylinders. When the car is started, you get a puff of blue smoke. You can have new valve seals installed, but this is costly. The other problem is, when they do this, there is a risk that it will cause other problems. Unless it is extreme, you should probably live with it.

The other reason for a puff of blue smoke at start up is the dreaded sludge/gel issue. You need to find out what it is before panicking.

andrelaplume · March 2002

Consumer Reports always touts the Camry as the greatest car (acheivement) of man kind. I am becoming suspect after reading all these notes on the sludge and blue smoke and defective rings. I have not heard a peep in CR either when they constantly report every little problem on the domestics. Is this board just overly sensistive and these are isolated cases or does CR have some hidden agenda by not reporting this. I really am starting to wonder if shouldn't save $3000 and get the Taurus. Am I crazy?

andrelaplume · March 2002

It would be nice if you could have responses held under each topic. For example when a topic regarding Blue smoke is first introduced, all replies would be indednted under it. I am no expert but for an example look at the messages area on this website: www.brianwilson.com.

Keep up the good work!

3pointstar · March 2002

NOT! At least for me. The Taurus is a piece of craaaap. I have driven rental Tauruses and it is unbelievably cheap in feel. However, I do think cost of ownership may still be less with a Taurus that is $3000 less. My father drives a pre-owned Chevy Lumina. It was cheaper to buy than a Camry, but there have been problems with the fuel rail, alternator, brakes, turn signal switch, and a few ther things with less than 75,000 miles! My Camry is 125,000 miles - other than troutine maintenance has had only the brake pads and CV boots replaced. Granted, the sum of the repair (some of them performed by himself) costs haven't exceeded the $4K-5K differential he saved by not buying a Camry. However, ask yourself this...IS $3000 WORTH THE HASSLE AND YOUR TIME?

So Toyota has a minor sludge problem, but folks out there who changed their oil at 5000-6000 miles? Give me a break. You deserve problems for abusing your cars like that.

jdeib · March 2002

I don't see how you can ever really justify a Taurus. I bought a '92 Camry new 10 years ago. The car stickered for $18,267. I paid 15900. I drove this car for 10 years and apart from 1 water pump, a power antenna, and window regulator, plus tires and brake pads, this car required only regular maintenance,(oil & filter every 3000 miles, timing belt every 60000, etc.)This car needed nothing major. Plus, it had zero rust(I live in Pittsburgh).

So, when I decided I wanted(NOT NEEDED) a 2002 Camry, I knew I could sell it myself. I placed an ad in the classifieds and in two days it was sold for the price I asked, $4,200. That's 26 percent of what I paid. On top of that, I was getting serious calls on it for two days after. A total of 25 interested parties.

Contrast this to the the Taurus and Sable my Father and Brother owned. They lived in the shop, barely got to 75,000 miles and it took us two months to sell the Taurus (Six years old at the time) for $1,500.

It's all in what you want to buy, and I'll agree that there must be a problem with high heat that is causing the sludging in cars that don't get new oil every 3,000 miles, but I can't see how anyone could think they are getting a deal with a Taurus. You lose in the long run.

canadiancl · March 2002

but why not go for an Accord and save some $$. Maybe not $3K, but it'll still be a significant savings.

tccmn1 · March 2002

Ok, it's me who started this whole deal on the 'puff of smoke' issue. I'm not in panic mode...yet. Today I decided to attack the issue and called 1-800-Toy who proceeded to tell me that there is a RECALL for the HEADGASKET! I had just taken my vehicle in for some service last week and, as mentioned before, asked about the now famous, 'puff of smoke' routine. Funny, they never mentioned a recall or maint. notice on this engine. I called this dealer back today after my conversation with 1-800-Toy, and asked them why and they said "they must've overlooked this". You bet!
So, I'm taking the 4banger back into the dealer for the headgasket replacement under warranty. Btw, I DO replace my oil EVERY 3K miles! I have a DC with the 3.3 -6 in it w/152K on it and it runs fine with this same approach. I had an 88 Camry V6 and did the same for 145K miles. So, there is some telltale signs of a weakness with THIS engine (sludge? I don't know) But something isn't smelling right. BTW, Toy was VERY nice to me on the phone and appologetic about the dealer 'slip-up'. Let the comments fly.

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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