A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

thecardoc3

More new on engine oils for today's cars.

http://www.chevronlubematters.com/2017/05/03/synthetic-oils-are-the-wave-of-the-future-for-passenger-cars/#sthash.3DyCiOuf.dpbs?cmp=CLMBlog_CLM&chn=ba_display&c=Taboola?utm_medium=display&utm_source=Taboola&utm_campaign=2017 Chevron General CLM Blog Support_008

roadburner

So the vehicle owner is too lazy to crack open their owners manual and find out the correct oil to use?
I HOPE their motor fails.

cmhj2000

roadburner said:

So the vehicle owner is too lazy to crack open their owners manual and find out the correct oil to use?
I HOPE their motor fails.

there's a lot of that now a days, yet they're the first one to whine when something goes wrong!! DUH

thecardoc3

roadburner said:

So the vehicle owner is too lazy to crack open their owners manual and find out the correct oil to use?
I HOPE their motor fails.

No matter what, it will still be the manufacturers fault.....

thecardoc3

From the article.

Synthetics are making possible the next generation of engine technology. One example is how General Motors looked to motor oil with their dexos1™ Gen 2 specification to help provide low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) protection particularly for small displacement turbo-charged engines.

I mentioned this a while back.
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/37375/ford/x/mega-knock#latest

"When the new ILSAC GF-6 specification becomes active (all indications are pointing to 2019), synthetics are expected to play a more prominent role."

When it does they will almost have caught up to the Gen 1 dexos specification, but still fall short of it even though it is now expiring and being replaced with dexos1-15. (dexos1 Gen 2) BTW It would be rare to see the "15" of the 2015 designation if classic labeling habits would not have been changed by the licensing program. With certification and licensing required that concern is laid to rest.

With the overall move toward lower viscosity oils, achieving newer grades such as 0W-20, 0W-30 and still to come 0W-16, require the use of synthetics. They cannot use mineral oils exclusively. OEMs are exploring even lower viscosities – for example 0W-8, which is expected to be a fully synthetic formulation.


The real fun is you cannot use these new 16, 12, 8, and 4 SAE grades to accurately judge the real world viscosity of the engine oils.

- See more at: http://www.chevronlubematters.com/2017/05/03/synthetic-oils-are-the-wave-of-the-future-for-passenger-cars/#sthash.3DyCiOuf.dpbs?cmp=CLMBlog_CLM&chn=ba_display&c=Taboola?utm_medium=display&utm_source=Taboola&utm_campaign=2017 Chevron General CLM Blog Support_008

thecardoc3

Painful to read. The truth hurts, but apparently it doesn't hurt enough to get dealer management to react. Yet.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/william-pica/the-bmw-technician-shortage/10155793714024316/

thecardoc3

Eric L. posted this response to the above story when I shared it on my Facebook page.

As a 34 year veteran of a Ford dealer not much difference there. I was one of the earliest Senior Masters in Canada.(Had all training done in all areas ,including diesel).I was good at what I did and mainly return repairs and oddball failures were my daily bread. I enjoyed doing the work but was not profitable to put it mildly. I was treated as a "Lifer" at the dealer . Only time I went in for a raise (after 8 years no raise) I was told by the SM that if he gave me more money I'd just spend it. More you know the less you make was very common and still is. My highest yearly was 42K Canadian

In the Ford training/reward system of 1980's I did very well. Second in Canada in 1986,Top in Atlantic Canada most years, National winner in 1991.I really wanted to be a Ford instructor .Made inquiries with contacts at Ford but never seemed to get info or encouragement. Only found out years later that at that time there was an agreement between Ford and it's dealers that Ford would not poach talent away from the dealers. You had to be out of the Ford dealer system for over 6 months before they would talk to you.

7 years ago at age 55 I was done , Side effects from Cancer surgery had slowed me down. When another dealer was purchased and merged previously I had been downgraded from a working foreman to back on the floor . I had a heart attack at 42 but 2 more when I was 53 and the following bypass that did not go well really bothered my ability to work. I tried to move into dispatch or similar but that did not work out. So with the recommendation of my heart doctor my career fixing Ford products was done.

Why did I stay till the end ? I'm not sure ,my father worked for the same company for 49 years One brother was in the Air Force for 37 years, another 31.Genetics ,stubborn disposition, the hope that things would get better, god knows. I enjoyed the people I worked with (mostly),enjoyed the job at our original location immensely .When I read of techs jumping dealers, leaving the business , I know what drives them . I just never made the jump when I should have. This business just does not seem to move forward. I was also a delegate at the original C.A.R.S convention in Toronto into concerns with the automotive repair sector in 1988 ? Really been no improvements and same concerns since then.

Sincerely E S


BTW The story above has been shared 92 times and has over 740 likes and is spawning a set of stories just like Eric's.

thecardoc3

Here is a link to the NYT story linked above.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/27/automobiles/wheels/automobile-repair-jobs.html?_r=0

Mr_Shiftright

This has been going on for decades in the car biz. Factory squeezes dealer; dealer squeezes employees. Employee complaints; dealer blames factory; factory blames dealer. Repeat.

thecardoc3

This has all been festering for a very long time and what is changing is the ability to put out there just what the career is really like. Meanwhile with the cars breaking less, needing less service and there is no legitimate way to guide someone to become the tech that the consumers need. That makes the trade losing the people who can do the work competently become exactly what everyone at every level deserves. We have all seen this coming for a long time, the situation is actually worse than is suggested by these stories.

Mr_Shiftright

They may be "breaking less" but WHEN they break---oh, boy.

isellhondas

thecardoc3 said:

Painful to read. The truth hurts, but apparently it doesn't hurt enough to get dealer management to react. Yet.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/william-pica/the-bmw-technician-shortage/10155793714024316/

I read the whole well written article and I totally understand. What he didn't mention was the constant outlay
of money for tools! He probably has 50,000 dollars sitting in his toolbox!

thecardoc3

At least that, maybe more.

I wonder. Do you think more people understand why I came along and started pushing back against all of the insults and negativity that was constantly directed towards techs? The people who have been trying to make a career repairing cars have a lot on their plates just to try and survive as they learn the work. All of the other noise just served to make that journey even more difficult than it already was. Articles like the last few should be helping everyone see how lucky they are to have any techs available to them.

In the past things like what FIX'd has been doing was around us all of the time and nobody ever stood up and pointed out that the toy tools are extremely limited in what they can do and that what a DIY'er can do at home has no bearing on what a professional technician needs to be able to do. The fact that entry level people are going to be subject to making more mistakes than a more experienced individual should be obvious but their mistakes are not a reflection of their intelligence nor their full potential.

thecardoc3

BTW. Imagine trying to diagnose an engine problem when it is equipped with these connecting rods.

http://vcr.fev.com/?utm_source=www.fev.com&utm_medium=Website&utm_campaign=Teaser Solutions-Kachel

Since this will have to be done while the engine is running, the answer will be to use the pressure transducer to measure cylinder pressure while commanding the connecting rod position to change. A rod experiencing a failure may have to be commanded several times to catch it sticking. Then of course will come the fun of repairing the problem and most of the trade schools don't even teach internal engine repair anymore.

Mr_Shiftright

I seem to recall other approaches to variable compression involving the cylinder head.

thecardoc3

The most common way right now is with variable valve timing. Retarding the intake camshaft timing allows the intake valve to close very late in the compression stroke which results in some of the charge being pushed back into the intake instead of remaining in the cylinder. I'll upload a capture of that when I have the time to get it off of one of my other laptops.

roadburner

thecardoc3 said:

No matter what, it will still be the manufacturers fault.....

True, but it shouldn't be.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I seem to recall other approaches to variable compression involving the cylinder head.

I think that's the direction SAAB was going. Sounded dicey to me.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, was that the cylinder head that actually moved up and down?

Ironic to say the least since Saab had a devil of a time keeping a head gasket intact even on their normal cars.

thecardoc3

As promised, check this out.

thecardoc3

Here it is with some highlights

thecardoc3

In this picture the timing of the intake valve opening is pointed out.



The later the valve opens, the later it closes. This is some 55 degrees after TDC which would make the closing event approximately 95 degrees after BDC.

thecardoc3

LOL. No comments on that screen shot? I was putting that out as a teaser to see if someone would realize exactly what it showed. This is called LIVO late intake valve opening and occurs under idle conditions. The intake valves are NOT directly controlled by the camshaft. They are opened and closed by the PCM controlling a solenoid that operates an actuator that opens and closes the valve. The only thing the camshaft does is operate a hydraulic unit that feeds the oil to the solenoid. Since the PCM can control the entire operation of the valve provided there is oil pressure available what you see in this case is a single quick opening and closing of the valve. This is described by this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9Gz_h7Qpg

Here is another interesting article in Automotive News.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170604/RETAIL07/170609891/1147

If robotics are to make their way to automotive service areas, one fundamental question will first have to be answered:

Would robots in service be considered a tool to help techs do their jobs, like a good set of wrenches — and thus the financial responsibility of the tech — or a piece of dealership-owned capital equipment, such as a lift?

If we're to use the way most current service departments operate as a guide, the answer to the question might determine who would potentially buy them, and whether they get built at all.

It may seem outlandish that a technician would be asked to purchase robotics, such as perhaps an exoskeleton suit, that might cost tens — or even hundreds — of thousands of dollars. But if that makes the technician quantifiably more efficient and saves wear and tear on his body, how different is that than an expensive piece of diagnostic equipment or a specialty tool that might only be used occasionally?

Mark Davis of Seminole State College in Sanford, Fla., says that in all but the most progressive dealerships, service technicians must buy their own tools — an expense that, along with their education and training, can run into the tens of thousands of dollars. The cost is one of the factors crimping the supply of technicians.

"Right now, the technician is responsible for the majority of their tools. And most of the money that's being made in the service areas of a dealership is the result of the technician," Davis argues.

While automating some jobs with the help of robotics would no doubt make a technician more productive, dealers might be reluctant to pay technicians more for a higher skill set.

"Even some of the new equipment is getting sophisticated enough to where the technician will have to have higher technology skills than they have in the past," Davis said.

At one time using air tools allowed techs who made the investment to work faster and make time against the labor times hence making more money for having invested in them. Then labor times were changed to reflect use usage of air tools taking that away from the techs. Now they want to talk exoskeleton's and robotics to make the techs faster, expect the techs to pay for them while paying the techs even less than they are today........

Actually, if history applies that sounds about right.

thecardoc3

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170701/RETAIL05/170709995/tesla-service-mobile-model-3

Houston is a large area, and within that area there weren't even 15 technicians," Rodgers said. "With that many cars rolling out, they're going to have to beef up their facilities quite a bit."

roadburner

A lot of people worship at the Tesla Shrine, but I seriously doubt the company will survive long term.

Mr_Shiftright

So far, it looks like a giant Ponzi scheme to me.

thecardoc3

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170703/RETAIL05/170709998/1147

Hendrick Automotive Group employs about 2,000 service technicians at its 102 dealerships, Simpson said. About 350 are master certified. To be considered for the contest, a technician must have "the highest level of training by the manufacturer they represent and be recommended by their service manager," he said.

Average three master certified techs per store. That's a good thing.

Since the contest's inception in 2002, Hendrick Automotive Group has tripled its number of certified master technicians, said Simpson.

They have to be doing something right to accomplish this.

In addition to being a morale boost and fostering better technicians, the contest aids in talent recruitment and retention. For Proctor, it opened the door to his dream to work in racing.

"Getting to come here and tour the [Motorsports] facility was just like the first time I went to the dealership. I thought, 'Wow, this is something I want to be a part of,'" Proctor said.

In mid-2016, he started applying for a job with Hendrick Motorsports. When his application was accepted, he took a pay cut of $30,000 a year to become an engine tuner for track-side support.

Getting into the racing side of things has it's attractions but there is something else wrong here, something they aren't putting their finger on. Why would someone take such a pay cut?

"When I started out 11 years ago changing oil, I would have never dreamed that I'd be where I am now," Proctor said.
That pay cut, he said, is a temporary setback.

Granted there has to be some real potential for an individual, and yet there would be intense competition for those jobs. But the bigger story is that he left the dealer's service bay, and he was willing to take a serious pay cut to do it. As great as the potential might be in the racing side you have to ask yourself what else was there about being a dealership technician that made it something to desire to leave behind?

Mr_Shiftright

I suspect that the work gets to be routine. You open the same hood, look at the same engine, day after day. And let's face it, modern cars aren't all that exciting to look at. It must be like climbing a mountain where you never get anywhere.

In racing...well...you can WIN! You can achieve something. And it's certainly exciting.

Perhaps this tech is very young--he doesn't necessarily need stability or job security right now. Motorsports Teams can go south in a heartbeat---there's a risk there, in exchange for the excitement and prestige.

guitarzan

Mr. S. +1 on getting out of "the routine". While some people thrive on a routine, others feel the opposite and hate it.

It sounds like his gross income was good. To generate that he would have been working long hours and would have had to consistently generate a high output. As several of you have described, that takes a significant physical toll. Even after "only" 11 years, he may be utterly sick of this.

Racing is seasonal so he may have off time now, which he never had before.

Significantly, he is now surrounded by aces. There is no room for lazy people or incompetent people in a professional racing league. This can be a very important psychological aspect for some personalities. Also they must perform every time they show up to do their thing. There is excitement to being pushed to a high level of performance for the sake of performance and not for the sake of generating billing hours.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly---you aren't some replaceable drone, grinding it out day to day, and in most dealerships, very under-appreciated even if you are good at what you do.

A dealership position would be my last choice if I were a young tech. I'd choose a smaller specialty shop first, or racing, or a tuner shop, or even get into building rods, where you learn not only wrench-turning, but all kinds of fabrication skills and a bit of engineering.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly---you aren't some replaceable drone, grinding it out day to day, and in most dealerships, very under-appreciated even if you are good at what you do.

Yes, if I was in that sort of environment I couldn't stand it. I enjoy my job because I like the brand and I get to work with a few real enthusiasts as well. I couldn't see working for another car company other than maybe Porsche...

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I suspect that the work gets to be routine. You open the same hood, look at the same engine, day after day. And let's face it, modern cars aren't all that exciting to look at. It must be like climbing a mountain where you never get anywhere.

In the dealer, for that matter in any shop that is keeping pace with the technology that is in the cars today walking up to and having to be ready to work on something that you have never seen before is normal. He left the dealer to be an engine tuner in the race team. He is going to be doing the same dozen or so things over and over and over again. They will only need him at the track when something goes wrong and the chance of winning has already been lost.

thecardoc3

guitarzan said:

It sounds like his gross income was good. To generate that he would have been working long hours and would have had to consistently generate a high output. As several of you have described, that takes a significant physical toll. Even after "only" 11 years, he may be utterly sick of this.

I believe you are on the right track here. To make good numbers techs have to upsell a lot of maintenance work, the very kind of behavior that most consumers have problems with.

guitarzan said:

Racing is seasonal so he may have off time now, which he never had before.

Yes and no. The racing itself is seasonal, but the work of getting ready for next season never stops.

guitarzan said:

Significantly, he is now surrounded by aces.

Well ahh, this could go so wrong.... He is quite likely in a better place.

andres3

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly---you aren't some replaceable drone, grinding it out day to day, and in most dealerships, very under-appreciated even if you are good at what you do.

Yes, if I was in that sort of environment I couldn't stand it. I enjoy my job because I like the brand and I get to work with a few real enthusiasts as well. I couldn't see working for another car company other than maybe Porsche...

You sure you wouldn't work for Tesla? How about Mazda? Mini? Rolls?

roadburner

Tesla will likely not be here in five years.
Mazda only makes one sports car and kicked Mazdaspeed to the curb.
Mini is okay, but not my style.maybe if I HAD to...
I'd be bored to death at a Rolls dealer

Mr_Shiftright

andres3 said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly---you aren't some replaceable drone, grinding it out day to day, and in most dealerships, very under-appreciated even if you are good at what you do.

Yes, if I was in that sort of environment I couldn't stand it. I enjoy my job because I like the brand and I get to work with a few real enthusiasts as well. I couldn't see working for another car company other than maybe Porsche...

You sure you wouldn't work for Tesla? How about Mazda? Mini? Rolls?

You mean as a line mechanic? Nah, same general routine as working for Chevrolet--you'll see the same cars every day, and pretty much do repetitive tasks. At least in a specialty shop you might get to work on a range of cars spanning 5-40 years in age

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

At least in a specialty shop you might get to work on a range of cars spanning 5-40 years in age

Trying to do that would show anyone just how little they really know.

guitarzan

thecardoc3 said:

In the dealer, for that matter in any shop that is keeping pace with the technology that is in the cars today walking up to and having to be ready to work on something that you have never seen before is normal. He left the dealer to be an engine tuner in the race team. He is going to be doing the same dozen or so things over and over and over again.

Wow Doc you turned a few of my assumptions upside down.

I worked in testing laboratories. That work consisted of 10% invention and 90% rote testing. The invention time was the best time of my life but I could not handle it long term because of the extensive rote work. After your comments I am thinking that the race tuner's work is more like this. There's some magic in the role but probably not at all what I suspected.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

andres3 said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly---you aren't some replaceable drone, grinding it out day to day, and in most dealerships, very under-appreciated even if you are good at what you do.

Yes, if I was in that sort of environment I couldn't stand it. I enjoy my job because I like the brand and I get to work with a few real enthusiasts as well. I couldn't see working for another car company other than maybe Porsche...

You sure you wouldn't work for Tesla? How about Mazda? Mini? Rolls?

You mean as a line mechanic? Nah, same general routine as working for Chevrolet--you'll see the same cars every day, and pretty much do repetitive tasks. At least in a specialty shop you might get to work on a range of cars spanning 5-40 years in age

I think he was referring to my current job- product specialist/sales/technology troubleshooting. In my case I need to have sincere enthusiasm for the brand in order to do that job. I couldn't deal with people shopping for and/or buying four-wheeled appliances. For example, I'd enjoy working with people buying a Fiesta/Focus ST, RS, or Mustang GT/GT350- but the typical Fiesta/Focus/Fusion/SUV buyer? Nope.

Mr_Shiftright

thecardoc3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

At least in a specialty shop you might get to work on a range of cars spanning 5-40 years in age

Trying to do that would show anyone just how little they really know.

That's why it's a specialty shop.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

andres3 said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Exactly---you aren't some replaceable drone, grinding it out day to day, and in most dealerships, very under-appreciated even if you are good at what you do.

Yes, if I was in that sort of environment I couldn't stand it. I enjoy my job because I like the brand and I get to work with a few real enthusiasts as well. I couldn't see working for another car company other than maybe Porsche...

You sure you wouldn't work for Tesla? How about Mazda? Mini? Rolls?

You mean as a line mechanic? Nah, same general routine as working for Chevrolet--you'll see the same cars every day, and pretty much do repetitive tasks. At least in a specialty shop you might get to work on a range of cars spanning 5-40 years in age

I think he was referring to my current job- product specialist/sales/technology troubleshooting. In my case I need to have sincere enthusiasm for the brand in order to do that job. I couldn't deal with people shopping for and/or buying four-wheeled appliances. For exampe, I'd enjoy working with people buying a Fiesta/Focus ST, RS, or Mustang GT/GT350- but the typical Fiesta/Focus/Fusion/SUV buyer? Nope.

I think there are two distinct types in Sales---those who just like the idea of selling, and would enjoy selling just about anything to anyone, and those who can only muster enthusiasm for things they would personally buy, enjoy or respect.

The latter end up enjoying their work; the former often make a boatload of money and probably die young.

roadburner

Exactly; I can't feign enthusiasm for something I don't actually like...

Mr_Shiftright

Doc--do you know where the heater control valve is located on a 1998 Dodge Dakota 5.2L, and whether it is vacuum or electrically operated? My heat is on all the time.

thecardoc3

According to Mitchell the manual Heater/AC system has a cable operated temperature blend door.

First thing to check is to make sure that the knob hasn't stripped out and is actually operating the cable.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah it's working because when I turn it the heat increases further (gets hotter). Thanks for that bit of info, though.

thecardoc3

That suggests that the cable (wire) is probably failing. I still have to tool to make the little circle on the end of the control wire when I had to replace one.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, I think I have that in my motorcycle kit. I think I'll stop off at the wrecking yard to see if they have one pulled apart (dash out) so I can see better.

This is my old work truck. If I have do, I'll just hook up a 3-way valve and turn it on and off manually. I am NOT tearing a dash down--no way.

I wonder if I can pop the control panel for the manual heat control off using trim tools?

What PSI do you think a cooling system operates at when it's really hot? Cant' be very much--maybe 15 psi before the cap blows? An industrial 3-way valve could easily handle that then.

andres3

roadburner said:

Exactly; I can't feign enthusiasm for something I don't actually like...



Hmmm... how about being a Wrangler Genius and sales person?

roadburner

Wrangler only? I'd give it a try.

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Oh, I think I have that in my motorcycle kit. I think I'll stop off at the wrecking yard to see if they have one pulled apart (dash out) so I can see better.

This is my old work truck. If I have do, I'll just hook up a 3-way valve and turn it on and off manually. I am NOT tearing a dash down--no way.

Adding a water control valve is more difficult than repairing/replacing the cable. In other words the cable repair is easy enough for entry level techs to usually do unsupervised. The instructions say to loosen the dash but not to remove it. With the control head pulled out from the dash you should be able to see where the cable goes.

Here is the description of how to adjust the control knob.



When investigating an issue with the heater control you should be able to turn the knob and move the door from one stop to the other and hear it the door slam closed in each direction. The knob should NOT spring back, if it does then the cable (wire) is likely kinked. Here is a line drawing of how the cable connects to the plenum and how the cable self adjuster connects to the blend door.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I wonder if I can pop the control panel for the manual heat control off using trim tools?

The bezel pops off and then the heater control head is retained with screws.

Mr_Shiftright said:

What PSI do you think a cooling system operates at when it's really hot? Cant' be very much--maybe 15 psi before the cap blows? An industrial 3-way valve could easily handle that then.

The spec is 14-16psi.

Mr_Shiftright

Great! Thanks, Doc. I think I have everything I need now!