Hybrids in the News

falconone

http://www.kirotv.com/news/4547536/detail.html

This is truly a testament to the strength of the Prius. Others didn't fare as well.

gagrice

That was a lot of carnage. The people in the Prius are lucky to be alive. I don't think they will repair that one. Looks like a whole family lost their lives in the Taurus.

molokai

http://tinyurl.com/7son6

I knew this was the case, just wanted to share!

molokai

http://tinyurl.com/aff5b

I guess since Toyota is sponsoring it, they had no choice.

biker4

Talk about misleading statements - spiralling greenhouse emissions - they are not spiralling anywhere due to cars. The average car is getting better every year in terms of GHG emissions - the EPA and EU regulators make sure of that.

This is just the British tree huggers' way to try eliminate larger vehicles.

Who would have thought large SUVs would become politically incorrect so fast.

dewey

Reliability of the Prius is a recurring theme. I would rather have the electrical gremlins of a VW Jetta than a hazardous Prius engine that can stall! I would rather take the time to learn BMW's complex idrive system versus confronting Prius software problems!

Go ahead read the news(WARNING IT IS NOT GOOD NEWS)

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050601/toyota_investigation.html?.v=2

Ofcourse Toyota's response to such problems are the following:

"Toyota executives did not have any immediate comment on the government's investigation."

molokai

Of course they're going to investigate. The Prius and other hybrids are hot news. Their findings will be what we've been saying all along. Get your software updates!! Interesting is that the people that did experience the problem had their cars updated with no problems afterwards. Can't say that for those electric gremlins in the German cars. I'll take the Prius anyday over those cars. 30,000 trouble free miles.

dewey

"This is truly a testament to the strength of the Prius. Others didn't fare as well. "

What kind of testament is that??

Depends on what impact the Taurus had compared to the Prius. Also two other non-Prius cars were involved with no serious injuries. I would not call that a testament for the other two cars!

dewey

There is a bit of a difference between having electrical annoyances and a potentially fatal accident due to a stalled engine!!!

Whetether you are talking about computer bugs or insect bugs===there is quite a difference between a fatal bug(Scorpion) and a non-fatal bug(Lady Bug)

sinepman

So I guess the VWs have scorpions. I agree with molikai... I'd trust the Prius over any German car any day of the week. I've owned quite a few and when they run, they're GREAT. I just don't like being on a first name basis with my SA. I liked that article about the Toyota repair guy. Just like the lonely Maytag repairman. I guess the VW repairman goes home physically exhausted!!! LOL

dewey

A VW Jetta is garbage!!! Dont expect me to defend a Jetta!

I used a Jetta as an example to show how bad the Prius problems really are!

Before you defend the Prius I advise all of you among the Faithful to wait until the investigation of the Prius is complete. You guys are beginning to sound like those Chevy Vega defenders before the rear end investigation was complete!!

dewey

LOL!!

If a person bought a BMW for the way it looks than that person needs to see an eye doctor!!!

I bought my BMW 323i 7 years ago because of drivetrain/chassis considerations. Beauty is skin-deep!!!

molokai

Yes...especially the bangled new 3 series which looks quite cheap looking. Still a nice car tho! 5 series is my favorite even though it has a very Japanese looking flair to it now. So when is BWM introducing a hybrid 3 series? I understand very soon!!

gagrice

I liked that article about the Toyota repair guy. Just like the lonely Maytag repairman.

Looks like they will have to get off their duff and start working, with 880,000 Toyota recalled vehicles. Losing your steering is a tad bit worse than an electric window failure.

In addition to Prius woes, a recall Toyota reported this week of about 880,000 trucks and SUVs sold worldwide because defective front ball joints could lead to loss of steering control doesn't help its blemish-free reputation.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/chi-0505200115may20,1,1259027.column?c- oll=chi-navrailbusiness-nav&ctrack=1&cset=true

backy

Compare 880,000 vehicles that may have a defect that leads to loss of steering control, to 33 (so far) cars where the engine has shut off, but the car remains controllable and under power (at least long enough to come to a stop). And the 33 cars is seen as a major issue?

molokai

At least they publicize the problems. GM tries to hide them until the feds find out. VW is a non issue because they're always having quiet recalls. Bottom line is that reliability speaks for itself. Look at the red dots for Toyota/Lexus and look at the black dots for Audi/VW. That speaks VOLUMES. Also JD Power has glowing reviews for Toyota. As usual (or lately) the Germans are at the bottom. Tsk tsk !!!

dewey

So when is BWM introducing a hybrid 3 series?

I dont know? I think a 3 series diesel will be here sooner! I dont think a 3 series hybrid is appropriate . Handling/agility would be affected by the weight.

What confirms my view? The fact that the upcoming IS models of Lexus includes 2.5l, 3.5l V8 and 2.2l diesel engines. There are hybrid IS rumors but none of them appear likely. Why? Because with current technology , a hybrid version of a nimble sport sedan would be too heavy!

molokai

Actually... I think when clean diesel gets here BWM will bring over their diesel variants to the US. If they're anything like the MB diesels, performance should be fantastic. Obviously, gas mileage will probably be in the mid 30's or so. I really hope they bring over those engines. We need more choices. I am a hybrid proponent, but clean efficient diesels should be introduced as well. Will take the Bimmer over the VW any day of the week too!!!! Bangled and all !! :P

gagrice

33 cars is seen as a major issue?

I agree with you that the Prius problem is insignificant to the truck/SUV steering recall. It is all the publicity that has surrounded the Prius makes it a target for news good or bad. With Toyota shooting at the big 3 for dominance they will be targeted more and more. King of the mountain is the easiest target to hit. Toyota has a great reputation for reliability. They cannot rest on their laurels or they will lose that edge.

molokai

I'd like to see GM come back to their glory days. Let's face it, they are totally out of touch with their customers. Their engines (most of them) have ancient technology. The new Cobalt is a nice start in getting back to good build quality. Let's hope they continue to make strides for the benefit of this country.

larsb

Looking Good in PriusLand..........

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/06-01-2005/00037694- 91&EDATE=

dewey

Overall positive Toyota figures! Just when are they going to pull the plug on that Celica beast!! The Celica was suitable for the 80s( during 1988 I chose an Acura Integra instead)

john1701a

Where did 33 come from?

13 was reported in the newspapers, but that was incorrect too.

I searched the NHTSA reports myself. I actually found 14 reports; however, 3 of them were duplicate entries. So there were really only 11 vehicles reporting that "VEHICLE LOST POWER" problem.

The following are summaries of all the NHTSA reports and links so you can read through the details yourself:

fuel gauge (November 29, 2004)
highway stability (April 1, 2005)
crosswinds & tires (March 19, 2005)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (April 19, 2005)
brake problem (April 12, 2005)
back seatbelt (December 30, 2003)
navigation accuracy (December 10, 2003)
cruise-control (December 15, 2003)
brake problem (May 2, 2004)
tire traction (May 9, 2004)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (June 16, 2004)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (July 18, 2004)
tire wear (September 23, 2004)
brake light assembly (August 10, 2004)
back seatbelt (October 15, 2004)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (October 29, 2004)
* duplicate entry, same vehicle (October 29, 2004)
* duplicate entry, same vehicle (October 29, 2004)
brake fluid (November 23, 2004)
tire blowout (November 22, 2004)
accelerator stuck (October 12, 2004)
air bags (December 28, 2004)
* duplicate entry, same vehicle (December 28, 2004)
fuel guage (January 1, 2005)
backseat latch (February 4, 2005)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (February 24, 2005)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (November 1, 2004)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (March 30, 2005)
* duplicate entry, same vehicle (March 30, 2005)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (April 17, 2005)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (April 20, 2005)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (May 2, 2005)
VEHICLE LOST POWER (May 7, 2005)

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm?start=1&SearchType=DrillDo- - wn&type=1&year=2004&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&vehtype=PC&component_id=0&summary=true

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm?start=16&SearchType=DrillD- - own&type=1&year=2004&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&vehtype=PC&component_id=0&summary=true

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm?start=1&SearchType=DrillDo- - wn&type=1&year=2005&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&vehtype=PC&component_id=0&summary=true

.

larsb

More evidence that this situation is getting OVERBLOWN by the media.....

molokai

I see the news hasn't effected sales either. They're still HOT HOT HOT!!!!!

dewey

"More evidence that this situation is getting OVERBLOWN by the media"

Too early for a sigh of relief! We dont know this until this investigation is over.

11 versus 33 does sound like a discrepency. Reuters, Wall Street Journal, Associated Press and many other sources are consistently reporting 33. In fact all media sources are reporting the number 33. Where did you read the reported 13 number? Will there be a need for the media to change the 33 number? NO!!

Unless John you inform the media on how to correctly read and calculate NHTSA figures! Good Luck!!

molokai

Now let's see. 33 out of 100,000. Hmmm... not bad!!!! Go hybrid!!! Any more good news today? I'm so giddy!!!

soultek1

The first "official" report stated 13 and that was about a week ago. Whether another 20 were added to the report in the last week and whether that got updated to their site is debateable. Nonetheless, you're talking about 33 out of about 80,000. I haven't owned a car that hasn't been recalled.

On Monday May 16th CNN reported 13 complaints, for the link click here

dewey

Pardon my rude manners in disturbing your giddiness.

But who is to say there are only 33 claims. What about future and unreported claims.

Remember there was once only 33 claims about Chevy Vega rear end explosions. Hopefully the Prius will not share the same fate as the Vega: This would be the death knell for all hatchbacks ( I do like hatchbacks).

dewey

20 addition complaints in such a short time---the momentum is growing!!!

john1701a

More good news would be that not a single report mentioned a failure after the updates were applied.

So the 2006 model should come out untarnished by all the current media hype.

JOHN

larsb

John's post clearly indicated that there are only

11 (Eleven)

complaints in regard to the "CAR LOSES POWER" problem.

That is 11 complaints out of 97,500 cars sold in 2004 and 2005.

.0001128 percent.

OverBlown BigTime.

c2rosa

Feds Investigate Hot-Selling Toyota Hybrid

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050601/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_investigation

PF_Flyer

Let's not turn this into another "defending/attacking hybrids" battle. I've taken down some more posts with personal comments directed at each other. Apparently I'm going to have to go the formal route to get this behavior to stop and begin "writing tickets" for violating the member agreement. Here's the section on "member conduct":

Edmunds.com Forums welcomes all points of view on automotive matters. However, although interactions within Forums occur in cyberspace, everyday manners apply. Please respect and interact with fellow members as you would in any public arena. If you wish to take issue with the statements of other Edmunds.com Forums members or Edmunds.com staff, please engage in healthy, mature debate and not immature behavior or name-calling. Civility and respect underlie the success of an on-line community such as Edmunds.com Forums. While we want to maintain an inviting environment for all members, disruptive conduct, such as off-topic comments in a topic-oriented discussion, is not allowed.

So the next time you feel the urge to fire a "zinger" at the other side, please don't. It's great that you're all so passionate about things, but if you keep getting carried away, you're going to wind up putting your access to the forums at risk, and I really don't like to see that happen.

Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood host...

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

soultek1

Momentum for what? Why do you want hybrids to fail, especially something like the Prius? Clean air, reduced oil dependency, and another step closer to fuel cells. What's the problem?

dewey

If you feel so correct about that 11 figure what is stopping you from reporting this error to the media??

dewey

What's the problem?

I love hybrids and I would not be here otherwise, But I want to know the facts both positive and negative.

molokai

I'm still giddy because the media LOVES to blow things out of proportion. I am quite honored that this thread has so many posts and followers. It is a measurement of the excitement for hybrids! Enthusiasm by one, can be jealousy by another. But heck, I'm still giddy and have all my software updates. Unfortunately, uninformed people who own the Prius have NOT brought their cars in for updates.

c2rosa

Officials eye Toyota Prius stalling

Regulators plan to conduct investigation over engine stalling.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/01/Autos/toyota_prius/

larsb

To Whom could I report it to get the 33 number stopped? John researched the NHTSA site and saw the 11 reports. The 33 number is the "total number of Prius complaints" and not the "total number of lost power" complaints.

molokai

I understand that the people conducting the investigation are the same ones that investigated the Audi problem back in the early 80's. Lord help us!!!!

soultek1

Fair enough.

Still, the situation doesn't seem that bad and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the problem is driver error. If not, regardless of what is discovered, I think the problem will be easily rectified.

Regardless, I'd still take my chances with a Prius or another full hybrid. The upside of hybrid technology is too important not to advance.

dewey

Or just maybe all media sources are controlled by journalists suffering from hybrid envy. I really do pity those journalists.

PF_Flyer

These forums are NOT about PROVING anything to anyone, and that's where most of the problems are centered here.

Hybrid fans - believe it or not, not everyone is going to be as enthusiastic about hybrids being THE answer.

Hybrid doubters - you may beleive that the current hybrids aren't the greatest thing since sliced bread. Others disagree.

BOTH SIDES - it's time to stop trying to negate or counter what the other side is saying, agree to disagree and MOVE ON. This endless arguement about who wants hybrids to fail or succeed is getting OLD.

So if you see something that you disagree with (however unlikely that may be:) ) or something that's even just plain wrong, make your point about it, offer an alternative theory, but please stop short of feeling compelled to comment about the person who made the post.

And PLEASE keep on topic. When every topic turns into a battleground for the same fight by the same folks, it does NOTHING to make others want to join in. It's has the effect of excluding new posts since it's apparent that no matter what side of the issue a person is on, they can be sure that somebody is going to jump down their throat.

Sylvia

The original "13" reported in the newspaper were actually the 13 individual complaints made in the Forums here at Edmunds (if memory serves correct). I'm sure the newspaper report did bring other owners out who may have experienced this as well.

One question might also be...from the time NHTSA gets the complaint to the time it is posted on their site. Is it real-time or is there a lag time?

Agree that the 33 number should be clarified in the latest newspaper reports.

dewey

"The upside of hybrid technology is too important not to advance. "

ABSOLUTELY AGREE!

PF_Flyer

Feds Investigate Hot-Selling Toyota Hybrid

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050601/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_investigation

We're still VERY early in the development of hybrid technology and things like this are going to come up. No vehicle is perfect. (and no, this is not a reason to rejoice or despair... just a news item to DISCUSS)

Sylvia

OK, again we can get back on topic of hybrids in the news and not so much on if hybrids should advance or not.

Thanks!

molokai

They're just tired of reporting casualties in Iraq. I guess is a little more palatable.

stevedebi

I just perused the NHTSB complaint database. Here are the numbers as I see them for complaints of the Prius suddenly stopping / stalling.

Year / Total / Non-duplicates
2004 / 39 / 24
2005 / 10 / 5

Total: / 49 / 29

So the news reports of 33 are within reason. What I find very troubling is that some owners were told there were two software fixes for the Prius. I had only previously heard of a single fix. And I did not realize that some 2005 model problems have been reported.

This issue is by far the majority of the problems reported (73 total Prius problems reported).