Lexus ES 350

jimbres

Seeing as this will probably be my wife's next car, I wouldn't mind if Toyota tightened up the handling. (Incidentally, I've heard it said that the optional AVS has a sport setting that greatly improves handling. Our current ES doesn't have this.)

I don't think, though, that the target demographic for this car includes the sports-oriented buyers who are gravitating toward the Acura TL. I hope I'm wrong about this.

bluesman3

AVS is a high end option, it isn't on every copy of the ES. I'm not sure that it's really worth it, most folks would probably set it and never adjust it again.

I would expect great improvements to the handling and overall performance of the ES. Remember that this is a car meant for comfort, tighter handling means some give and take. Perhaps they can find the balance?

bluesman3

Thanks to GS3rdWOW from another forum...

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4215/esfrontenhanced8lv.png

max460

A 3.5 ENGINE 270 HORSEPOWER SIX SPEED TRAN, PANORAMIC ROOF, Bluetooth Technology

bluesman3

No, no... You can't link another forum here or I would have done it already! The forum host (Kirstie) will now send you a nasty cease and desist E-mail.....

max460

THAX

mikegiller

This is from "another" forum;



Coming Soon: A New ES.

With all the excitement surrounding the recent introduction of the new LS 460, GS 450h, and IS, one could be forgiven for wondering if other Lexus models—like the ES—have been forgotten. Hardly. In fact, the ES has been completely redesigned as the 2007 ES 350.

Like other redesigned Lexus models, the new ES 350 sports what the chief engineer calls as “confident” new look, thanks in part to a wider stance and wheels repositioned closer to the vehicle’s corners. The ES 350 has a larger wheelbase and a wider track, both of which help enhance the vehicle’s handling and increases the interior space.

Designers also equipped the ES 350 with an array of new Lexus features, such as the keyless SmartAccess system with push-button ignition, the backup camera, Bluetooth® technology that gives drivers hands-free cell phone access (with compatible cell phones), and options such as swivel headlamps that turn with the road and a DVD Navigation System with the latest graphics and points of interest.

Under the hood, a larger 3.5-liter V6 engine, complete with Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence (VVT-i) for maximum engine efficiency, produces 275 horsepower—a 50-horsepower increase from the ES 330’s engine. The vehicle also includes a six-speed automatic transmission with sequential shifting, which improves overall vehicle performance and fuel efficiency.

Enhanced safety features include driver and front passenger knee airbags, a direct-type tire pressure monitor, and Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) with Traction Control. Plus, options abound--leather seats equipped with the Lexus Memory System, a glass roof, a power rear sunshade, and heated and ventilated front seats. (Most of these items will be included in a new ultra luxury package). Look for the 2007 ES 350 to arrive in dealerships this spring.

max460

It looks GREAT

sorter

So far, I can't tell any improvement from the current ES. The Improvement, I think is very difficult to do.

motownusa

The front looks a lot better than the current car. It looks very similar to the pre 2002 ES. Of course the real change is under the hood. 275 HP and 6 speed auto sounds sweet . Wonder if they would come up with an SE version ??

mikegiller

That's Toyota-talk! You mean sport package?

This ES looks very promising.

Notice that they said they will infuse better handling and sport into this ES. No doubt it will not be a performance sedan, but there are many ways of making a car handle well while still being very cushy and pampering.

If this car starts with a base price a tick above the IS 250 it will be a hit in my books. (This is comming from a 19 year old.)

callmedrfill

A $32,995 base price, splitting the IS250 and 350.

5 more horses than the TL. Important. The tail wags the dog these days! :surprise:

DrFill

bartalk3

Regular or high test? The Camry and Avalon with the same engine (268hp in those cars) run on regular. Yes, I know the response, "If you can afford to spend this much money on a Lexus, why do you worry about spending a few hundred bucks more a year on premium?"

dampfnudel

Actually, 17 more horses.

Like other redesigned Lexus models, the new ES 350 sports what the chief engineer calls as “confident” new look, thanks in part to a wider stance and wheels repositioned closer to the vehicle’s corners.

The ES 350 has a larger wheelbase and a wider track, both of which help enhance the vehicle’s handling and increases the interior space.

Under the hood, a larger 3.5-liter V6 engine, complete with Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence (VVT-i) for maximum engine efficiency, produces 275 horsepower—a 50-horsepower increase from the ES 330’s engine.

It looks like Toyota has their eyes on the Acura TL (5AT) crowd with a practical (roomy), performance-oriented sedan. This may not be your mother's/grandma's ES. :shades:

chris65amg

Have a 5A or a 6A?

dampfnudel

6A

mikegiller

Same as the IS.

Why, really, would the IS 350 command a higher price than the ES 350?

I am totally game if the ES 350 is just a touch more expensive than the IS 250; that would be perfect, and a really great value.

vasia

sorter, you honestly can't say the exterior and interior look better than the current ES? It's not so hard to see the improvement. The engine and tranny alone are an improvement.

It's obvious that the new ES will use the new SAE ratings just like the new IS. That means 275HP (SAE net) compared to the 258HP (SAE net) of the TL. It will probably require premium, or have it as recommended, just like premium is recommended on the TL. Also about the TL's sportiness; the 5A TL is not as sporty as you think. The TL's reputation for good handling and sportiness mostly comes from the 6MT model, which most people seem to forget, comes with a helical limited slip differential. Slap a 6 speed manual and LSD onto the new ES, and I'll bet it will handle very close to a TL. A 6MT TL vs the new ES is not an entirely accurate comparison. I'm really interested to see if any magazines will compare a 5AT TL to the new ES, which is a more accurate comparison.

If you want sportiness, that's what the IS is for, and an IS350 will handily out-handle and outperform a 6MT TL.

To those who ask about the IS350's price; it is based on the GS chassis and uses a lot of GS components (ex. suspension, brakes). Also, it's engine with added direct injection is more expensive and more complex than the ES350's engine will be.

Current ES starts at basically 33K. IS350 starts basically at 36K, which is a 3K difference, which seems like a very reasonable difference.

Besides, seeing as the new ES will come with an "ultra lux" package , a loaded ES may approach the price of a loaded IS350.

bartalk3

What is that exactly? Can the whole thing be closed with a shade? I hope so. Who needs the July sun on your head?

A comparison with the Acura TL is apples and oranges. The standard TL is a sporty, very firm riding entry lux car that corners flat at high speed in Consumer Reports accident avoidance test and with a high skid pad rating from the car mags. That is not what the ES was or is. Compare to the Buick Lucerne or Toyota Avalon.

jimbobjoegin

ok this may be subject to criticism,
but dont you guys think that the new ES IS AND LS look like each other, but just a little stretched out? They dont really look that unique anymore
although I love the new ES interior

VEry nice

golfer71

any one have any more photos (side view)?

Doesn't look like the ES will be AWD since it was not explicitly stated. Thus far I like the looks and expected the updates. I think this will be a great seller for Lexus. Very nice inside and out (of what I have seen thus far).

vasia

Very firm? We're not talking about a sports car here. I've been in a TL, and it's not "very firm". You seem to be exaggerating the TL's sportiness. AGAIN, like I said, the *standard* 5A TL does not handle or corner THAT great, and a Camry V6 can keep up with it in straight line speed. The TL's reputation comes from the 6MT with LSD, because that's the model most comparisons use.

Toyota Avalon? The ES pricing basically starts where the Avalon pricing just about ends. Sure, some people may be cross-shopping, but if you look at the sales, neither car has cannibalized sales of the other, which means different shoppers are buying these cars. With regards to the Lucerne, GM used the ES as a benchmark in many aspects, but in reality, the Lucerne competes with the Avalon, or rather barely manages to compete. The Lucerne has a 4 speed auto, and an interior very similar to an Impala, it only has a tilt (no telescoping) steering wheel, and bluetooth is not offered. Plus, the V6 Lucerne is really slow, it does 0 - 60 in about 9.5 sec. Even the V8 Lucerne only does 0 - 60 in about 7.5 sec. The Avalon and ES330 are both rockets compared to the V6 Lucerne, and easily trump the V8 in performance. The ES350 will only increase the gap. The Lucerne is also priced to compete with the Avalon, not the ES.

The real reason I compared the TL is because buyers DO cross shop between a TL and ES, I've personally witnessed it many times. Pricing, features, and dimensions are all quite similar in many respects, although the TL offers somewhat more sport, and the ES somewhat more luxury.

dampfnudel

The real reason I compared the TL is because buyers DO cross shop between a TL and ES, I've personally witnessed it many times. Pricing, features, and dimensions are all quite similar in many respects, although the TL offers somewhat more sport, and the ES somewhat more luxury.

Lately, I have seen quite a few "older" ladies (as well as men) behind the wheel of the 5AT TL so traditional buyers of the ES are cross-shopping between the ES and TL. Maybe Toyota has realized this and that could explain the focus on performance for the ES350 (plus traditional Lexus luxury/comfort of course).

Like you said, the 5AT version of the TL is not as sporty as some people want to believe. It's FWD with slightly over-boosted steering and a wide turning circle. Try driving a 5AT G35 right before driving a 5AT TL which I did a few months ago. It does look "sporty" and the interior is nice. I think the ES350 will at the very least close the gap with that version of the TL except the ES will have a better ride.

motownusa

Yep, the ES definitely needs a sports package. That would steal a good number of potential Acura TL buyers.

vasia

I don't know about a "sports package" ... that may be stepping too much on the toes of the IS. But one thing is for sure; the ES could definitely use better handling, or possibly the option of better handling. The IS by virtue of being on the GS platform will obviously handle better, but it wouldn't hurt to close the gap a bit with the TL.

Merely by design, the new ES will have better handling. It should be about the same size as the current ES (seeing as its on the Camry platform), but with a longer wheelbase, and a wider stance. It will be interesting to see if Toyota puts anything from the Camry SE onto the ES or not.

neumie2000

http://5.pro.tok2.com/~settai/cgi-bin/joyful/img/628.jpg

bluesman3

No!!! That's a chop of the IS!!!!

I wish people would quit posting that fabrication.......

neumie2000

And you know that is "a chop" how exactly? I have no idea whether it is an accurate picture or not, just as you have no idea whether it is "a chop." Just information for all to consider.

bluesman3

Because it is...we've seen real photos for the new ES350...
Go back to post #305 and you'll see the actual car.

Sorry to jump on you but that chop has shown up on all the Lexus boards in the past week.

bartalk3

Thanks for the photo. But, oh-oh, where's the B pillar? Don't tell me it's going to be one of those window-rattling, roof-collapsing hard tops of yore that lacked a center B pillar.

bluesman3

It's chop, don't worry about it... Didn't you read what was just posted in reply!?

andy82471

Personally, if I had to choose between the IS350 and the ES350, I would definitely go with the ES. I actually got a chance to sit in the backseat of the IS and I can say that even small children will find the legroom too small. With the new 3.5 motor, I can see a lot of potential IS350 buyers opting for the new ES.

vasia

Lack of a B pillar? hardtop? What are you talking about? The ES will not have a hardtop, but a "panoramic glassroof". And lets wait for the official reveal, in a little over a week to see full photos. I think it's a bit ludicrous to think there isn't a B pillar.

vasia

The ES is an entry level luxury sedan, fit for families. The IS is more of a sports sedan for those who want a nice mix of sport and luxury. Suffice to say the IS350 isn't exactly a family car, or rather a good choice of a family car. I too have heard about the small backseat of the IS.

bartalk3

vasia: What are you talking about? Apparently you have no idea what a hardtop is. A panoramic glassroof would be perfectly compatible with a hardtop design.

bluesman3

I think bartalk3 is referring to the interior photo of the new ES350 sunroof.. It appears that Lexus may have enhanced that photo and removed the B pillar so they could get a whole shot of the sunroof from the inside.

mikegiller

The IS 350's back seat is small, and I don't think that a child seat (or whatever they are called, I am 19, give me a break) would fit in the back seat. However, two average sized adults can fit back there. I did. I am 5'11.

For a family with two children over the age of 4 of "normal" proportions, the IS would be perfectly fine.

There are still single people out there that would be attracted to the new ES 350, though.



PS - That last photo is obviously a chop. I don't think Lexus is looking for that "bodykit" look on the new ES.

jstockton

The new ES 350 will debut at the 2006 Chicago Auto Show on Feb 8th. Production has already started, and the new ES 350 will be available in April along with the Hybrid GS.

bluesman3

That's the first I've heard on production starting, although I think it would have to if this is a spring launch. What's your source?

vasia

My point was that why did you even bring up a hardtop? The ES will not have a hardtop. Like I said, this is not a coupe or sports car we're talking about. Sure a glassroof COULD be compatible with a hardtop, but that's irrelevant, as the ES does not and will not have a hardtop.

vasia

The last photo? Which one are you referring to? The shot of the exterior front? If so, that original pic was scanned from the Lexus magazine, which isn't available yet. That enlarged pic was extrapolated just to give an indication of what the new ES from the front will look like. Lexus would not post an inaccurate picture, photochopped or otherwise, in their own official magazine.

I don't see any "bodykit" look on it. All I see is an aggressive and equally elegant front fascia. I think some people will be a bit suprised by this new ES. Suffice to say, it's not your grandma's ES anymore

dampfnudel

at Clublexus. No more pictures.

jstockton

I can't name my sources. All I can say is they are being built and will be here in just over two months.

bluesman3

motownusa

Front looks beautiful, IMO. Somewhat conservative but very elegant. The rear looks similar to the IS, and GS. The pic of the interior isn't very clear so very hard to tell how good it is compare to the competition. Did anyone actually get a chance to sit in one ?

bluesman3

Several moons ago I posted a digital image of what this car would look like and I got slammed left and right about how it "wasn't the new ES". Well I gotta say that image was actually a lot closer than most folks wanted to believe. We said the back wasn't correct but the rest of the car was. You be the judge:

They exagerated the tail lamps and we knew that, but now compare the side profile and you'll see what I mean.


I'd like to say I was correct all along...

jimbres

Thanks for the pics, bluesman. IMO, this builds nicely on the 2002-06 ES. I'm also curious about the interior. Will the new ES feature tilt-&-telescope steering?

bluesman3

Yes, tilt / telescope.

navigator89

Thanks for the photos.

Unfortunately I think it looks too close to the Camry. The profile and taillamp/headlight design are really similar. I would have liked Lexus to go with something different to separate the two.

The interior is classic Lexus - absolutely stunning.

alpha01

The taillamps strike me as VERY IS. I do see the Camry body shape, but thats not new, and this is the best lux execution of it to date, IMHO. The roofline and door cuttings are both distinct, from what I can see. The front end is a bit RL to my eyes, but VERY attractive. A job well done.

~alphaB