2007 Toyota Camry Problems and Repairs

chikoo

I should clarify - the hesitation I refer to relates to rolling acceleration: after slowing down from higher speed, say 40 mph to 10 or 5 mph then if you press deep on the pedal - the poor baby is quite unhappy.

Now Why would you want to confuse the artificial intelligence by sending out mixed signals? If you are slowing down, the AI is expecting that you will want to come to a slow stop. But you "deep press" the gas pedal. The car at this point in time is in the best Fuel saving mode and you want to disturb that? That is sacrilegious. and that is what makes it quite unhappy.

silverstar

First – sorry for this long post. If I have violated posting etiquette – please let me know.

Sigh! Truth be known I drive fairly sedately and smoothly, very seldom do I 'goose' it. But smooth, silent, power reserves I do want - I like knowing it's there for the one time each year I want to experience the spirited but safe drive.

As to my test drives, I was simply trying to duplicate and determine for myself the 'hesitant' behavior mentioned by others in this and the Yahoo forums.
camry Forum

In one of my test XLE V6 drives, I slowed down to about 10mph as I approached a sharp right turn on a deserted the country road (great visibility on all sides), the accompanying sales person told me to go for it (accelerate into and power out of the corner) to see how well this XLE would handle this stressful maneuver – yes I know this is NOT a sports sedan. So I pressed the pedal to ‘power’ through - nothing aggressive mind you – But we didn’t accelerate, the car continued slowing through the corner and only after I had completely negotiated the bend did the car start to pick up speed. Was that 2 seconds, hard to be accurate but I remember thinking “if this rockets me around the corner the tires better grip like glue”. Well then it was like … huh what happened? Was that the VSC kicking in? I am not convinced.

Of course, after that, I was easily able to duplicate it in another brand new Camry at different dealership. This time I was able to do this twice – first time on a straight and level direction of travel I got the very confused transmission response – engine racing but no matched tug from the wheels. The second attempt was around a sharp corner form 10 mph. I simply pressed the accelerator and again – nothing until it caught more than a second later and then the tires really spun.

So – do I ever drive like this in real life– no. Do I like the car – you bet, and my wife loves what she has seen of it so far.

But knowing that ‘some’ people have experienced this in ‘some’ Camry’s makes me wonder if the new tranny programming needs a little bit of tweaking or perhaps give the driver the ability to switch out of the ‘FE’ mode and into ‘sport’ mode. News of the TSB got me excited, until I found out it was for the 5-speed, not the 6-speed.

I’ll venture that over 90% of Camry buyers will never abuse their cars like this. But look what Toyota put in this car – a super powerful engine – to intentionally attract more than just the moms, pops and grannys. This other group will push the car more often and may get themselves in trouble when they need to get out of harms way ‘right now’. That has my concern all along.

Thank you all for your insight, discussion and information – it helps me make more informed decisions. But check out that the discussion in the other forum I list above.

drjames

May I suggest deactivating the VSC/trac on another test drive and repeat those exact moves. You might be quite surprised at the result.

silverstar

May I suggest deactivating the VSC/trac on another test drive and repeat those exact moves. You might be quite surprised at the result.

Thanks - really. I will try what you suggest.

Secondly, I just went back and looked at the Yahoo forum I mentioned - and for the first time I noticed that most of the concerns were related to the the 5-speed - just as you and others have said.

So maybe - its this VSC/trac thing I experienced after all.

sigh!

drjames

do you know how to deactivate the VSC/trac? A couple of friends of mine with a Lexus IS 350 and a 07 Camry SE V6 both deactivated their VSC/trac and took them to a closed race track. Suffice it to say, it was FUN to watch them tear around the track until the Lexus ended the day agains a tire barrier. lol... it was fun, but driving that agressively without an electronic nanny and that much power can be dangerous.

silverstar

Ha! - nope - I was going to ask my salesperson - but if you can tell me I'd appreciate it.

drjames

Easy, but the salesman probably wouldn't know either. So, with the parking break on, start the car. Pump the breaks twice, with the second pump holding down the pedal. Then release and engage the parking break twice. Do this all within 30 sec and repeat if necessary. The VSC/trac light will turn on.... you're good to go!! Only, I don't know if the salesman will be completely happy with it.

silverstar

It must be getting late - at first I laughed as I read your message. I thought the instructions will surely end in having me stand on my head and stroking my belly three times. Sorry. Still the technique sounds quite odd.

So when the light turns on - that means it is dis-engaged?
And afterwards, how does one re-engage the system?

Well, I am off for the night. I'll check in tomorrow.

Thanks again drjames.

drjames

LOL! Not quite, but you're going to have to rub you stomach and stand on your head to re-activate the VSC/trac! Just kidding. Reactivating the VSC/trac will require you simply to turn the car off. When you restart the car, VSC/trac will be back on.

This procedure/cheat is simply a way for service personnel to deactivate VSC/trac for diagnostic/service reasons. But, for obvious safety reasons, VSC/trac should be on for everyday driving.

btw, no thanks required. I rather enjoy 'discussing' possible problems, concerns, and solutions of Camry owners without all the 'sky-is-falling' at Toyota and Don't buy a Toyota because... posts.

captain2

But, for obvious safety reasons, VSC/trac should be on for everyday driving.
depending, of course, on level of interference, this would be debatable - but at very least, it should be able to be disabled EASILY - several cars do allow this and/or even user setting og levels of intervention. But, now that the government is getting involved ... Big Brother really will be doing the driving for us! If only the general public really understood what these 'safety' systems actually do.
IMO, is it this attitude that is effectively creating our 'smart' sometimes difficult to drive automobiles!

w9cw

As captain2 said, several cars allow for disabling the VSC. Yes, my car has a simple switch to turn VSC on or off. Once "Big Brother" enters the picture, this switch will go bye-bye.

wwest

Older, FWD Cadillacs with the high HP/Torque NorthStar engine somewhat dethrottle that engine anytime you go WOT from a standing start, not just when turning simultaneously.

Yes, the VSC/Trac/anti-rollover firmware will always maintain the engine dethrottle of any FWD car during an accelerating turn, especially a tighter turn at WOT.

If you are not quite fully stopped when you go WOT the transaxle will still be in a higher gear inappropriate for acceleration and that will also result in delayed acceleration by the DBW system to allow time for the transaxle to downshift into a more appropriate gear ratio.

wwest

According to the service manager at Lexus of Bellevue the quickest/easiest way to disable VSC/Trac is to unplug the MAF/IAT module while the engine is running. the engine will die and then you reconnect the module. Now for the next few drive cycles you will have a CEL/VSC/Trac diagnostic indication.

The CEL is meaningless but the VSC/Trac system will indeed be disabled.

wwest

Since a Porsche owner is fully expected to know how to correct, quickly, for a yawing condition the Porsche stability control system, PSM, has a delay of a few hundred milliseconds to give the driver time to react and correct before activation.

calhon

"As captain2 said, several cars allow for disabling the VSC. Yes, my car has a simple switch to turn VSC on or off. Once "Big Brother" enters the picture, this switch will go bye-bye."

Actually, the NHTSA's proposed regulation allows optional switches to partially/fully disengage ESC, provided:

- The system automatically resets to fully enabled on each start.
- The ESC system is compliant with the standards when fully engaged.
- There is a telltale light to indicate when the system is partially/fully disengaged and unable to meet the standards.

captain2

the new TL/S is now equipped with a throtlle limit function on acceleration if the wheels are turned - apparently allowing full acceleration only when the front wheels are straight. Raising the same sort of issue that many drivers of Toyota/Lexus products have, 'I expected' to accelerate quicky but the car wouldn't 'let' me! Same sort of thing applies to TRAC.
Don't think you'll ever see anything 'mainstream', like Camrys, with anything but a higher level of VSC/TRAC interference. The purchasing demographic is just too varied. Most BMWs and MBs can be set to variable VSC settings based on a user selected drive mode (sport, normal, comfort etc.) And maybe also on the reasons why these particular brands are generally beset will all kinds of electronic gremlins. Porsches, of course, a different animal altogether.

drjames

Well, As a Porsche owner, I can atest to the fact that the PSM in my Boxter S is more seamless than what would be found in a Camry. BUT, my Porsche didn't cost 2 1/2X the price of the Camry for nothing.

that said, in the next 'refresh', expect a switch to be able to turn off the VSC/trac in Toyotas as they are now finding their way into the 07 Lexus lineup.

captain2

expect a switch to be able to turn off the VSC/trac in Toyotas as they are now finding their way into the 07 Lexus lineup.
not so sure about that - Toyota has always done a pretty good job marketing to the US driver's preference for smoother riding, softer cars. And never really had the engine to compete with the Nissan and Accord V6s - until now. With the new IS and, of course, the GS models Lexus is attempting a little more on a frontal assault on BMW 3s and 5s but they still betray their lineage. The Camry (and the Avalon. for that matter), while it now can be had with the power to keep up with about anything on the road, should continue to be 'Americanized' cars in all other respects. Toyota may just be a little too conservative to get to heavily involved in a 'driver's' car (VSC on or off) - although I'm looking forward to the reincarnation of the Supra with something approaching 350hp out of the 2GR engine!

wwest

"...never really had the engine to compete with the nissan and Accord V6s - until now.

Compete hell, those RWD ISes and GSes would run away with the entire market if a Toyota nameplate and pricing were to be used.

wwest

that in the very near future only drivers with performance driver training and experience will be allowed to have the "combination" required to disable VSC/TRAC/etc. in cars sold/marketed to the general public.

And owners of FWD or front torque biased AWD vehicles will NEVER be given the combination, REGARDLESS!

chuck28

does anyone know what the idle speed should be when the car is stoped and in drive. I thought it should be 700 though mine seems closer to 800 RPM'S ?

silverstar

On one of my Camry test drives (v6 xle I believe), I noticed it to be about 900 with AC on. Thought that was a little high, but with AC off it was still about 800. I did not notice what the RPM was on other occasions/test drives.

My Infiniti I30 v6 idles around 650 ~ 700 rpm depending on AC.

beantown

The VSC/TRAC has nothing to do with the hesitation problems. Many who have the problem have confirmed that they don't even have have cars equipped with this option.

And to those who believe the hesitation only shows up when you abuse the car, think about this for a second:

Have you ever slowed down from 60+ mph on a highway off-ramp and then had to speed up even a little in order to merge onto another highway or even a residential street?

Have you ever been stopped at a green light while trying to take a left, had an opening that would be more than enough in most instances, but would require some application of the accelerator (but not gunning it like a fool) to avoid cutting off the next car?

If you've ever been in either of these situations, as we all have, the hesitation could be a real problem.

captain2

now that would be one hellatious can of worms - you would be hard pressed to find anyone out there that wouldn't profess to being a 'great' driver or would admit to needing any help from 'Big Brother'.

captain2

The VSC/TRAC has nothing to do with the hesitation problems.
This is seemingly true, my non-VSC Avalon an example. However, it is these burgeoning new technologies that create the opportunity for these probelms even to exist. Do you suppose that we are even talking about this if: the government (and the consumer) weren't FE and safety crazy

buckwheat

From Automotive News - full story requires subscription.

Camry engine glitch gets fix:
Toyota Camry sales haven't been hesitating, but Camry powertrains have. A raft of consumer complaints and negative postings on Internet chat rooms such as Edmunds.com forced Toyota engineers to find out why 2007 Camry engines tend to bog at critical moments

ray_h1

)) "that said, in the next 'refresh', expect a switch to be able to turn off the VSC/trac in Toyotas as they are now finding their way into the 07 Lexus lineup." ((

Such a decision could come back and bite Toyota squarely on its corporate gluteus buttkus - leastways in the ULSA - Ultimately Litigious States of America. (At least with vehicles that stress performance such as those built by Porsche, BMW, etc. the assumption is that buyers of these vehicles are aware of their characteristics and ideosyncracies and take care to learn their ballistics limits at varying speeds and road conditions.)

drjames

can't speak about litigation and US laws, since I no longer live in the States, but you'd think that an owner of a car, whether it be a Porsche, Ferrari, or possible future Camry with an 'off switch' for VSC/trac who holds a valid driver's license would be responsible for how he or she handles the car. It reminds me of the old unsuccessful lawsuits against phone companies, since someone argued that phone companies "provided" the means for some stalker to harrass and communicate death threats, the phone company must be held responsible. Likewise, I'd think it would be akin to accusing and suing Gun makers for the actions of someone using their gun. Does this make any sense?

wwest

The hesitation problem that was being described, specifically, had to do with the delay of engine torque if one happened to try to accelerate rapidly into a tight turn, especially from a standing stop.

And yes, that undoubtedly requires some version of VSC/Trac, but does not in any way really relate, at least not directly, to the more common Toyota/Lexus FWD 1-2 second downshift delay/hesiation.

wwest

"...who holds a valid driver's license would be responsible..."

You have hit the nail squarely on the head.

Learning to "drive" a car is not nearly the same as learning to survive driving a car.

Absent flight simulators no commercial airline pilot would gain any experience in some of the dire emergency situations that "driving" an airplane is likely to get you into sooner or later.

What is needed is schools with driving simulators and licensing conditional on being able to react properly in common roadway hazardous situations.

drjames

lol, So you would encourage kids well before obtaing a driver's license to play as much Sony Playstation and Xbox's Grand theft Auto and Gran Turismo? Sounds good to me!

christy7

I am very seriously considering the V6 2007 Camry as my next vehicle purchase. I've been reading the forums for lately, and I just wanted to find out about the transmission issues. Am I correct in thinking that the primary problem with the V6 engine was with the earlier Camry's produced, and that most of those should have been fixed?
It seems that most complaints recently have been with the 4 cyl. engine hesitation....is this also happening with the V6s?
I really so like the Camry, but I am worried about the transmission and hesitation, etc. My local dealer says that they've had no problems with any of their Camrys. I talked with the service manager, and he said he was aware of the TSB for the earlier V6 models that had the snap ring issue (I'm not sure if that is the correct technology...I'm relying on my memory, and it isn't great sometimes!). He said that they've not had any problems at all though.
Any clarification would be helpful!
As much as I want a new car, I may have to wait awhile and see how all this works out.
Thanks!
Christy

exploder750

I've been following this and other forums for a few months. The V6 issues over and above the acknowledged early snap ring issue do not involve hesitation, but intermittent RPM "flaring" (engine racing) between gears. Some have had valve bodies replaced to no avail, some have had full transmission/ torque convertors replaced that has helped. The 4 cylinder / 5 speed automatic combination has some experiencing engine hesitation and cruise control issues. Toyota on Sept. 29 released a Technical Service Bulletin for this issue that essentially re-programs the computer for improved drivability. Short term feedback has been positive by most, the reprogramming hasn't worked for a couple of them. If you really like the Camry, buy one made as late as possible, fully informed that there is a slim chance that you might or might not be affected by one of these issues. Be wary of a dealer who isn't acting aware of these issues, they might be telling you what you want to hear in order for them to keep selling cars. Remember, it's the sale of these cars that's putting dinner on that dealership employee's table. The key is to be educated and armed with all the info you can gather on your own. Or, go and buy an Accord or Fusion. :shades:

drjames

I've got nothing but praise and no problems for my 07 Camry and certainly would not hesitate to endorse it to you. That said, exploder750's advice to order one from the factory is always prudent. Since Toyota is known for as the originator of 'continuous improvemnt', and has implemented production line changes to improve build quality and engineering issues that arose after the initial launch.

aburd

Interesting comment in the Automotive News article by Toyota spokesman:

Camry engine glitch gets fix

Toyota has issued a technical service bulletin outlining a software modification that can be done at dealerships, spokesman John Hanson said.

"We tuned the engine for an increase in horsepower," he said. "We should have done it for driveability to match everyone's taste."

Of the software, Hanson said: "You can tailor it for how you want it. For people who have no problem with it, there's no problem." Dealers make the modification only if owners report a problem.

The above excerpt from posting on Toyotanation.com '07 Camry engine glitch gets fix

drjames

"Interesting comment in the Automotive News article by Toyota spokesman: Camry engine glitch gets fix "

It's nothing new, just a press release for the TSB EG056-06 that was released on Sept 29th for the I4 5A tranny ECM.

workingstiff

Software Glitch Slows Some 2007 Camrys
By Joe Benton
ConsumerAffairs.Com
October 16, 2006

The Toyota Camry is still the best selling car in America but a growing number of Camry consumers are puzzled over the car's performance and unsure about Toyota quality.

For the rest go to:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/10/toyota_accelerate.html

user777

is that they know EXACTLY how many units don't have the "fix", and the issue didn't just magically appear in 2007 with the I4... it's been affecting their Lexus brand ES 300 / 350 models, Highlanders, Avalons, and the Camry V6, perhaps even the Rav4. Did I miss a model?

but seriously, the way the spokesman couched it is classic.

kudos for EDMUNDS.COM being mentioned though! :shades:

captain2

That is because when an easy-going driver demands immediate power the software that controls the four-cylinder engine and five-speed automatic transmission can be momentarily confused, causing the Camry to bog down.
This seemingly the key quote from the article as it indicates that the software 'learning' function will relearn the 'easy-going driver' even after it is corrected.
Cntrl-Alt-Del?

captain2

and you are right, what about all those V6 models with ostensibly the same problem - maybe less objectionable simply because they are not as underpowered as the Camry I4 is?

imidazol97

The description has made the I4's driver at fault for the car's lack of ability to operate correctly. That's an irritation. If they'd just say that they didn't program it right, I could accept that better.

captain2

can be interpreted that way - they would probably be better off to do exactly what you say and offer to disable the 'learning' function altogether!

user777

i bet internally right now someone tuned into the tide of dissapointment over the operability of these vehicles is reconsidering marketing's use of the terms "adaptive" and "smart".

these will have potentially negative associations with the name brand.

we may see an increasing use of technology and integration for purposes of safety and FE and even product differentiation (i saw a advertisement on TV last night for Lexus and Auto-Parking (ha))... but then we may see increasing consumer backlash as well.

it may come to pass that increasing numbers of consumers will demand simplicity and lower-tech. i did when i made my van purchase in '03.

captain2

exactly!

aburd

What I find interesting (having not seen it quoted here before) is the affirmation that the '07 Camry's driveability characteristics are indeed "tuneable" with software and not (as has so often been alleged on this forum) degraded as an inevitable consequence of drive-by-wire, government regulations, etc.

The forum publicity has put the onus on Toyota (and they are responding as they should) to fix these issues on the Camry. Maybe if Avalon owners with the same issues were as high profile (or numerous?) their complaints would receive similar attention.

wwest

the answer.....!

From the new 2007 Ford Edge PR..

"The electronically shift controlled transmission also features a variable displacement pump, which matches the amount of fluid that gets pushed through the transmission to driver demand, making it more efficient."

At full lift-throttle all of the FWD Toyota/lexus vehicles begin an upshift just as the engine RPM drops to idle. With the engine at idle the upshift will exhaust/use most, or possibly all, of the pressurized ATF.

Now if you happen to re-apply foot pressure to the accelerator pedal just as the upshift begins the engine/transaxle ECU will "know" to delay the onset of engine until the low engine "idle" RPM can build enough ATF pressure to complete the corresponding downshift.

The most obvious answer would be to increase the volume of the fixed volume ATF pump so enough pressure/flow could be provided for two sequential QUICK shifts with the engine at idle. But then most of that added volume would be bypassed, disapated as heat, as the engine RPM rises above idle.

Ford's answer, apparently, is to have a variable displacement ATF pump so it can be switched to high volume when quick/SOLID shifting is required with the engine at idle. Makes me wonder if that allowed them to eliminate the ATF pressure bypass relief spring/valve also.

That would REALLY increase transaxle efficiency.

A second option would havre been to have an ATF pressure storage accumulator (like the ABS pumpmotor asembly). But putting one of those in an already "crowded" six-speed transaxle is probably out of the question.

Anyone know if any of the newer Toyota/Lexus transaxles have either? Absent one or the other the delay/hesitation issue will undoubtedly continue.

captain2

do I have some swampland for you - just outside Georgetown, Ky. Tuneable and fixable (in a long term sense) are different things and the problems are certainly are consequences of at least some of this technology, mis and/or over applied - but believe the Toyota spin if you wish.
As far as the Avalons etc. go - this has been THE favorite subject of those forums for about 2 years now, and did attract some similar publicity. Nothing actually happened naturally - I'll guess we'll see if Toyota does do something now that their cash cow is similarily infected!

user777

we had a few pretty active discussions on all things Lexus and Toyota vehicle hesitation related didn't we?

but understandably, the hosts had to shut them down because of the devolution into too much tete-a-tete and point-counter-point.

we weren't helping anyone while we debated the issue: is it real or not? if real, is it a safety issue or not? also if real, does it affect every vehicle or not?, etc etc.

the shutting down of these forums happened at least 2 or 3 times if memory serves, each time we lost a few more of the regulars as me moved on to the next model where the issue was being discussed... and the hosts were patient. thank you hosts.

if i had an avalon or hylander, or what-ever with a drivetrain hesitation operability issue where the system was using DBW technology, i'd print out the TSB for the Camry and demand the dealership get me in contact with the regional manufacturing rep to determine what they are doing if anything to address the problems i have with my car - noting they've done something positive for Camry owners.

i would also be posting my issue on the NHTSA web-site.

drjames

I apologise if I offend anyone; however, that is not my intent. That said, Toyota has admitted that there was an issue or 'glitch' with the Camry 5A ECM's programming and has produced a fix accordingly that has satisfied nearly all who complained of such issues. Why is it neccessary to continue to discuss how such a bad company Toyota and the wording they use in press releases and TSBs? Let alone in the Camry Woes forum. I get it, Toyota is not perfect, and not based in Michigan (kinda like Chrysler eh?).

cyhawk

I purchased a 2007 Camry LE with a six cylinder engine and automatic transmission. I drove the vehicle less than a week and 400 miles and the transmission failed. Third gear failed completely and reverse gear was barely operating when the car was towed-in. I talked to service managers at three dealerships and all of them pleaded ignorance that there was a problem with the 2007 Camry transmissions. When I informed them of Toyota's admissions (I showed a copy of the message posted on this web site) that there is a problem with the snap ring, all three told me corporate headquarters had not informed them there was a problem. I guess they won't admit a problem even when presented with the evidence.