Midsize Sedans 2.0

m6user

Thanks for the good info. She's not interested in nav or sunroof. She doesn't even care about heated seats and we live in Chicago area. Guess she just looks at her car as transportation and doesn't want to break the bank for bells and whistles. I like the Legacy on paper as well and our daughter is very satisfied with her 2014 Outback. Would really like to know how quiet the Legacy is at highway speeds with a lot of heavy semi traffic around. I've read that the new Sonata is very, very quiet and that is something she is looking for. I don't know, maybe living with me she needs to meditate or something to get through the day! The Malibu is last on my list as I still don't feel real comfortable with GM. I've owned a lot of GM cars/trucks in the past but they lost favor with me in the mid nineties. I've owned Japanese vehicles for the past 20 years and was pleasantly shocked at how problem free they have been compared to all of my previous U.S. makes.

nyccarguy

@m6user‌

I'll echo @stickguy's statements about the Passat. A few months back I test drove a 2014 Passat TDI SEL. It was comfortable and extremely smooth. If you are looking for a solid, quiet as a bank vault highway cruiser, I'd put it way up on your short list. Long term VW ownership can be polarizing. Proceed with caution.

We think too much alike stick. You pretty much described my Legacy in a nut shell. Definitely not as quiet (engine noise wise) as the Passat TDI I test drove, the 3.6R Limited might be a smoother operator. I can tell you that I'm really impressed with my Legacy's ride quality. It soaks up road imperfections and nasty pot holes quite nicely. It does transmit a decent amount of road feel too, which I like. I'd recommend it to anybody.

stickguy

I can vouch that on the highway, in the Sonata you don't hear the cars around you. Even better if you don't need the fancy stuff. A base SE with the options package (convenience? Premium? something like that) which adds a power drivers seat, spare tire and I think BLIS (what I would consider the minimum acceptable configuration) only stickers for something like 23.5K, and is quite well equipped.

Legacy is similar. I would stick with the premium 2.5i level. that gets you a power seat and some other niceties. That is probably going to be in the same 24K range.

m6user

Tks stickguy. I also have a RDX(2013). How would you compare the quietness of the new Sonata to your RDX?

yeah the Popular Equip Pkg for the Sonata adds:
auto headlights
10 way power driver seat
5" color touchscreen
Rear camera
Blue Link
Leatherette door panels(???)
Temp Spare

Adds $1200 to base SE price which seems like a decent deal.

stickguy

Oh, I think the popular package is essential, and yes, a good deal I would get the spare tire anyway, and I hate not having a power drivers seat. and the back up cam is a must IMO. rear visibility is actually better in the Sonata than some other cars now (Fusion being one!) but still nice to have.

I actually think it is quieter than the RDX. The real wildcard of course is tire noise and road surface, so would have to compare back to back on the same road. But I think outside noise is suppressed even better in thy Hyundai.

explorerx4

My fusion has Upgraded wheel and tire pkg, factory NAV, and moonroof. I don't remember the breakdown, but some of them retained a good percentage of the MSRP, last time I checked..

m6user

If you don't want certain bells and whistles in the first place they aren't worth anything even if they do retain some value. We had a sunroof in our past Infiniti and probably opened it 5 or 6 times in 10 years. I have one in my RDX and have maybe opened it twice in two years. Total waste for us but others like so to each their own. Now, NAV I like but the wife doesn't like to fuss with it. She still likes to look at a paper map. Gives her a sense of place I guess.

m6user

Both Hyundai and GM give military discounts to retired military so that may enter into our decision if she likes two cars the same and we are then just dealing on price. Toyota gives vets/retirees military discount if discharged/retired in the past year. Doesn't apply to me as I retired 5 years ago. Subaru military discount is just for active duty folks which is cool too. Never could figure out though why they would give someone that does two years stateside a nice "military appreciation" discount but if you did 33 years and deployed to war zones half a dozen times you're out of luck unless it was all within a year ago???

ahightower

m6user said:

Both Hyundai and GM give military discounts to retired military so that may enter into our decision if she likes two cars the same and we are then just dealing on price. Toyota gives vets/retirees military discount if discharged/retired in the past year. Doesn't apply to me as I retired 5 years ago. Subaru military discount is just for active duty folks which is cool too. Never could figure out though why they would give someone that does two years stateside a nice "military appreciation" discount but if you did 33 years and deployed to war zones half a dozen times you're out of luck unless it was all within a year ago???

Good point, and thanks for your service. I bet you anything the dealer would find a way to get that extra $500 worked into your deal... Suspect corporate doesn't even really require documentation.

backy

Actually, they do...

Kia provides a $500.00 cash rebate on certain Kia models for the members of the United States Armed Forces or Reserves or the immediate dependent family of the participant (spouse or child) for whom proper identification can be provided. ...

http://www.military.com/off-duty/autos/kia-military-offer.html

m6user

Thanks.  Dealers do demand documentation so they can get the money back from the parent automaker.  I've used it before when I was active and they needed a copy of my pay stub with my SS# blacked out.  I wouldn't let them copy my ID card.   I'm not saying a dealer couldn't or wouldn't come up with some extra dough to make it seem like a "military appreciation" type discount but without legitimate documentation they won't get their money back from corporate.

stevedebi

m6user said:

My wife is in the market for a new midsizer. Going to give the Mazda6 to our grandaughter. I would prefer a new Mazda6 but she will be driving it 98% so it is her choice. Her main want is quiet ride and dependability. The rest can be average like handling, tech, looks. She has driven our Mazda6 over 120k and virtually nothing has gone wrong but currently looking at a wheel bearing replacement which is not a big deal considering the miles. I've test driven the new Mazda6 a couple of times and I like it but to be honest it isn't much quieter than our current one so she wants to try something else.

Anywho, I've been web comparing the 2015 Sonata, Passat, Camry, Legacy and Malibu as they seem to get good reviews for the things she's looking for.....mainly solitude on the freeway. Looking for comments on specific likes and dislikes between these models if someone has done some recent comparing or test drives. I will probably be test driving all these models in the next week to boil it down to two or three for her to test drive. On paper I"m kind of liking the Sonata Eco Sport so far. And yes I've considered the others but have ruled them out for one reason or the other so I'm really looking for info on the ones I mentioned. Tks.

We just turned over 10K on our 2014 Passat TDI. It rides extremely well, and drives like a European car. The diesel is a bit more expensive, but it provides power at every speed, and the handling is amazing - it feels like a much smaller car.

explorerx4

I looked at the window sticker for my 2013 Fusion, MSRP for Moonroof 895, current trade in 500, NAV 795, 700, Upgraded wheels/tires 695, 200. Makes sense that the tries/wheels depreciated the most, since the tires are a consumable and only rated for 40k. The tires do grip like crazy, though.

venture

explorerx4 said:

I looked at the window sticker for my 2013 Fusion, MSRP for Moonroof 895, current trade in 500, NAV 795, 700, Upgraded wheels/tires 695, 200. Makes sense that the tries/wheels depreciated the most, since the tires are a consumable and only rated for 40k. The tires do grip like crazy, though.

Titanium?

explorerx4

Yes, Titanium.

venture

explorerx4 said:

Yes, Titanium.

My '14 Titanium is one of the few cars I have owned that I like more and more as time goes on. The only other one I can think of was my Mazda 6 GT, but I couldn't keep that one straight. People kept running into it and even a very large tree branch fell through the windshield and bent up the hood, fenders and trunk lid one stormy night.

The Fusions with the 2.0 turbo's, especially the Titanium's, are great looking, have more tech features than I really need or want, and the torque is amazing for an engine that small.

explorerx4

@Venture, When I bought my Fusion, I test drove an AWD model, but the FWD model just seemed a lot lighter on its' feet, so I bought it(plus I loved the color and the wheels). I have my old Explorer I drive when it snows.
I'm always finding new little things. The door lock buttons have little red lights in them, that let you know the doors are locked. When I was washing it the other day, I noticed the turn signals n the side view mirrors flash when the key is in range of the car. I hadn't really noticed this before, but maybe it is because the car was unlocked.

[Deleted User]

I had a Doctors appointment today right across the street from a large area Ford dealer. I was looking for a Fusion SE with the 2.0 turbo. Good luck. They had zero in stock. You had to jump to the Titanium for $35,000 sticker. Frustrated, I was about to leave when I saw the new Mustangs. There was a 2.3 Eco -boost (code for turbo) in this really cool greenish-black color, 5 star rims, gigantic disc brakes, and a sticker of 30,l10 with the "Track Pack". So, they only had one on the lot, and two GT's that were in the low 42k, so I struck up a conversation with a guy waiting to test drive it.... we hit is off pretty good, so I squeezed into the back seat and the purchaser, salesperson, and my 6 foot 2 self went on a high speed joy ride on I-95. The back seat is cramped for an adult.... but I have 5 more years until my nest is empty and I have GOT to have one. It was refined, and put out every bit of 310 hp and 300n lb-ft of torque.

In magazine pictures it looks very similar to the outgoing model... but in person it is bad-a**. Also, the ride was fantastic with the new IRS module. Again, Ford is the ONLY domestic brand I would consider.

explorerx4

@cski,
I don't want to be responsible for taking this discussion too far off track, so if you go over the Buying and Selling, I posted a couple of pictures of a yellow version of that car a couple of days ago, although the sticker on it was a lot higher.

venture

explorerx4 said:

@Venture, When I bought my Fusion, I test drove an AWD model, but the FWD model just seemed a lot lighter on its' feet, so I bought it(plus I loved the color and the wheels). I have my old Explorer I drive when it snows.
I'm always finding new little things. The door lock buttons have little red lights in them, that let you know the doors are locked. When I was washing it the other day, I noticed the turn signals n the side view mirrors flash when the key is in range of the car. I hadn't really noticed this before, but maybe it is because the car was unlocked.

I know what you mean about the "light on it's feet" thingy, but driving some twisty roads in the mountains makes me like my AWD.

Mine has the 19" Y-spoke wheels.

nyccarguy

@explorerx4‌

Your car is beautiful! I like those blue CT plates too!

@cski‌

I hope you are feeling better. Not sure if a Mustang would be good for the new "responsible driving" cski;)

venture

explorerx4

@Venture,
I had a 2007 AWD Fusion and I really liked the neutral handling compared to a FWD model.
If I didn't have a winter beater, I would have bought an AWD Fusion. I have driven across PA many times and the 2.0 handles the hills with ease.
@NYC
The color is Deep Impact Blue and it changes colors. Depending on the light, sometimes I call it Nuclear Blue.

explorerx4

@Venture, I se you posted a picture of your Fusion. I was trying to decide between 2 of them. The other one was the same color as yours, but it listed for 1K higher. Your wheels look good. I don't think those were available in 2013. Mine are dark stainless.

venture

explorerx4 said:

I'm always finding new little things. The door lock buttons have little red lights in them, that let you know the doors are locked. When I was washing it the other day, I noticed the turn signals n the side view mirrors flash when the key is in range of the car. I hadn't really noticed this before, but maybe it is because the car was unlocked.

If your wiper blades get out of order (the right one gets put over the left one), when you turn them on, one will rise and wait for the other one to pass. Sort of cool and amazes kids.

explorerx4

@Venture, I meant to ask, what grade of gas do you use? I usually run RUG, but I'm thinking of putting in a few tanks of PUG, seeing the prices have dropped so much.

venture

explorerx4 said:

@Venture, I meant to ask, what grade of gas do you use? I usually run RUG, but I'm thinking of putting in a few tanks of PUG, seeing the prices have dropped so much.

I always use 93. I used 87 a few times when I first got it, but have used only 93 for the last 8 months or so. I figure getting the extra 9 HP just by using a higher octane is worth it - to me at least.

[Deleted User]

Hey, I am sorry for getting off topic on the Mustang...I really was trying to find a Fusion SE with the 2.0 Turbo (Ecoboost but I HATE saying it). They only had Titanium, and they were all 33 to 35 k. So, this new 2.3T Mustang was sitting next to the showroom..and my god it is beautiful. No reason in the world to buy a GT for a daily driver. I loved it. I have always wanted one...now, if they pop the 2.3 in the Fusion AWD....that would be one heck of a 4 door sedan. It will never happen, but one can dream.... If ny of you car guys stopped in at Ford and saw one...I guarantee you will start to drool like a rabid raccoon. I LOVE the style of the Fusion. I LOVE the handling of the Mazda 6, but Mzda ALWAYS cuts short one of the "zooms" out of the Zoom Zoom by underpowering it's cars. 184 HP is NOT Zoomy. It is roomy, zoomy looking, and an all around pretty car...but they couldn't (or wouldn't) squeeze another 20 HP out of a direct injected 2.5? Why? Too zoomy? I don't get Mazda sometimes.

stickguy

That would be the next SHO.

I think they are concentrating on the 1.5 and 1.6 now. The 2.0 is probably going to be much rarer and only in high end models.

venture

stickguy said:

That would be the next SHO.

I think they are concentrating on the 1.5 and 1.6 now. The 2.0 is probably going to be much rarer and only in high end models.

The 1.6 is going away - replaced by the 1.5. The 2.0 is the preferred engine for those who like a little performance.

It wouldn't surprise me to eventually see the 2.3 in a Fusion.

There is also the 2.5 N/A engine, mostly found in basic transportation.

explorerx4

@Venture, Stopped to fuel up my Explorer today. Premium is 45 cents more than RUG. Not sure I what to go there. I'm kind of cheap, at times.

ab348

I filled up the ATS with PUG on Saturday - my first fill-up. Just so you know what it's like here in Canada: it took exactly 46 liters. That's 12.15 US gallons. The pump total was $58.70 or $4.83Cdn per gallon.

I used a bunch of grocery store discount coupons I had that were about to expire so I got 11.50 off.

venture

explorerx4 said:

@Venture, Stopped to fuel up my Explorer today. Premium is 45 cents more than RUG. Not sure I what to go there. I'm kind of cheap, at times.

$0.45 is quite a spread. It's around 30 cents here. I only drive about 8,000 miles a year so it is only (about) $120 a year for me - even with a 45 cent spread it would only be about $180 a year. If you drive a lot of miles it's probably highway miles so it wouldn't matter much. I'll probably go back to regular during the snowy months anyway. Haven't decided yet. I'll see when I get to the pump when it's snowing.

explorerx4

@Venture, In 21 months, I've put just over 19k on my Fusion, so I probably should just try some premium gas for a few tanks.
From your sig, I see you also have an Impreza. I'm thinking about something like that as a winter/extra car. What are the good and bad things about it? I'm done putting any more money into my 02 Explorer.

venture

explorerx4 said:

@Venture, In 21 months, I've put just over 19k on my Fusion, so I probably should just try some premium gas for a few tanks.
From your sig, I see you also have an Impreza. I'm thinking about something like that as a winter/extra car. What are the good and bad things about it? I'm done putting any more money into my 02 Explorer.

I own the Impreza, but I don't drive it - my daughter does. It's the hatchback (5-door I think they call it).

What I know: It will go anywhere in the winter, but doesn't suffer on dry roads. Only thing done so far was oil changes. The CVT is unnerving to me, but she doesn't mind it.

I drove it last winter in the snow and had a blast.

It's low and small inside. Drive one and see if you fit.

nyccarguy

@explorerx4‌

I can also tell you that you should look at either a Legacy or Forester with the 2.5L motor as well. A few people I spoke to about their Imprezas (they own or have driven Crosstreks) is that to call their acceleration sluggish is an understatement. Not to say that an imprezza isn't a fantastic car in the snow.

I spoke to a guy at a gas station in PA that had CT plates also. He traded in his 10 year old X-Terra for the Crosstrek. He can fit pretty much everything in his imprezza that he did in his X-Terra. He had a cargo box on the top. He loves the mileage of the Imprezza (he claimed to get 10 - 14 mpg with the X-Terra), but he said he has to plan his passing maneuvers carefully.

My uncle in CA bought a crosstrek over the summer. He's happy with the car, but told me it is "dead slow." He's also coming from a V6 powered 2003 TL.

I drove one on my 1st visit to the Subaru dealer. Around town it was fine. I didn't take it out on the highway though. It was comfortable and beautiful interior materials for the base model.

In the end, I decided on a Legacy with the 2.5 L motor and less options for a similar price. I had the dealer price out an Imprezza Sport Limited and ended up with a Legacy Premium.

explorerx4

@nyccarguy‌
A Crosstrek is on my list. Don't need a lot of power. It would be a winter driver/grocery getter/spare car with some cargo capacity.

nyccarguy

So if you would just be using it for local errands, I think you'd be fine with an Imprezza or Crosstrek. You are in a great location to "shop around" in Central CT between all the dealers in CT, MA, & even closer to me in NY you should be able to find the right car at the right price.

explorerx4

@nyccarguy, That's the practical option. I have lots of others in mind.

stickguy

actually, from what I recall in the reviews, you are better off getting a plain imprezza instead of the crosstrek. Same body basically, but quicker, better handling, and better MPG. And cheaper. just not quite as "macho" or "cool".

I imagine one of these on a set of winter tires will be just about unstoppable. Unless you are out near Buffalo, where they are getting about 6' of snow (that is feet, not inches) this week.

You could not pay me enough to move back up to the snow belt!

explorerx4

@stickguy. Everyone has their own criteria. I want something with some ground clearance. Don't really care about quick or handling. I have other vehicles for that. The only person I know that had an Imprezza, didn't like it. Not sure I would like the Crosstrek, but it's on my list to look at.
No 1 on my list is a short bed regular cab 4x4 F150 V8 with hard to find locker rear axle in that combo.

stickguy

well, no idea if this has a locker rear but this looks like it should have no problem with winter duty!

http://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/4767517797.html

nice looking stick shift!

http://hartford.craigslist.org/ctd/4765788999.html

explorerx4

Filled up the Fusion with Premium today. It was still less than $50. The next few months are when I got my worst mileage. I'm going to run Premium for a while to see how it goes.

@stickguy, That first truck is good plow truck material (continuation of what it already is). The second one is interesting. I even think I know where that dealer is. It's going to get 12/13 mpg's though.

[Deleted User]

explorerx4 said:

@stickguy. Everyone has their own criteria. I want something with some ground clearance. Don't really care about quick or handling. I have other vehicles for that. The only person I know that had an Imprezza, didn't like it. Not sure I would like the Crosstrek, but it's on my list to look at.
No 1 on my list is a short bed regular cab 4x4 F150 V8 with hard to find locker rear axle in that combo.

Yeah... speaking of ground clearance, I was going into the parking deck at GW hospital (there is a great number of restaurants in the general area because of the foggy-bottom metro station comes up right next to it). I was on a lunch date with my new girlfriend. (you gotta see her...OMG) Anyway, On my way down into the deck it scraped my exhaust (a little) but on the way out, I got high centered. I was pissed. My car is kind of low.... but not any lower than an Altima or a Fusion. They had A HUGE METAL PLATE that the parking manager and his cronies pulled out on a hand truck. I backed up... they set up the plate, shored it up with bricks, and I drove out w/o incident. I am going to Kia today for my free oil change (it has been 5,000 miles) , then while they have it on the lift I am taking pictures of ANY component that is damaged, and the parking Valet said his company would pay for it. I snapped picks of the car totally off it's rear wheels and if you pushed on the trunk, the front wheels were off the ground.. Who is the mot***fu**er that designed that deck? I bet 10 cars a day high center on that exit ramp.

Ok...had a great date... car is running fine, but I just am not happy with the acceleration. So, this time I took a 2.3 Turbo mustang (base model has everything I need except I want seat heaters and the track-pack wheels and tires (18"). Anyway. I AM going to start posting on the Mustang boards because I am in love. I drove a base black/green color with a weird looking tires. They were almost comical because of their sidewall height.(looks like a 225/ 65/17. If there is such a thing. Ok. Driving impressions? NO reason to buy a GT. The 2.3 Ecoboost (turbo for those just browsing the forum) 310 horsepower and 300 lb ft. Of torque. Oh...I want a stick too.

backy

I just traded my 2005 Mazda6i Sport hatch for a 2008 Mazda6i Sport VE sedan. I would've preferred another hatch, but they're very rare, especially for 2008. The new 6 has 75k fewer miles, flawless interior and exterior, new tires, and drives like new. The 2005 has 170k miles, loose front end, engine shake at idle, rusting around a rear wheel, warped rotors, some wear & tear on the interior, several dings/scratches on body and wheels, and maybe a year of tread life left on the Michelins. Plus my new 6 has a 5AT vs. 4AT and a CD changer. I think it will make a much better long-term college (and post-college) car for my daughter, and is comparable in age and condition to the cars I got for my 2 sons for school.

And if she doesn't like it, I told her I'll drive it and she can take the bus.

stickguy

sounds like a nice purchase. And definitely more suited to a girl at college. Should get that much time out of it reliably.

I loved the 6 hatch. I had a 1991 626 LX 5 door. Stick. Still one of my most favorite cars.

nyccarguy

@cski‌

I'm glad your date went well. I'm sure its not easy being on the dating scene with 3 kids in your early 40s. I'd be terrified, so kudos to you for putting yourself out there.

You say there is "No Reason to buy a GT". I can think of about 420 reasons to buy a GT. Plus you want a stick too? You might as well go for the "Full Mustang Experience."

suydam

"I had a 1991 626 LX 5 door hatch. Stick." I bought one for my son when he went to college. What a great car that was! Looked sharp too. He drove it for years even after college all over the country. We finally sold it still running well at over 150,000 miles.

stickguy

I sold mine to the mailman when it had about 90K on it. Saw it for years after that. I think he ran it up to 175K or so, before the AC and a couple of other things finally went. should have kept that one. But I hated those rat belts!

suydam

Those were those weird automatic seat belts. They were very strange.