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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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    benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    top 5 midsize sales for the first 11 months of the year. In other words, Camry wins again....

    Toyota Camry 396,988
    Honda Accord 356,785
    Nissan Altima 303,313
    Ford Fusion 283,694
    Hyundai Sonata 199,012
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The bigger surprise is the CR-V pushing 300K units this year. IMHO, crossovers will overtake mid-size car sales in 2-3 years
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I agree with you. The sedan may one day become as obsolete as the large station wagon is today.
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    nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,434
    robr2 said:

    The bigger surprise is the CR-V pushing 300K units this year. IMHO, crossovers will overtake mid-size car sales in 2-3 years

    Wow! That is surprising.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited December 2014
    Since I've been looking to buy a Audi this past month . Test drove the Q-7 last week then checked out the smaller Q-5. I have been noticing a lot of Q-5 vehicles on the roads in the NY, Tri- State/ NJ area. I see tons of CRV's, Rogue's and Rav4's everywhere. I don't think the sedan will ever become obsolete but it may soon be out numberd by the Small and larger SUV type wagons.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Suv sales were impressive this year.

    Chrysler Group auto sales reports with a healthy 20% jump vs. the month a year ago courtesy of its star brand, Jeep.

    Total industry sales for the month were up 4.6%, to slightly more than 1.3 million, the best since 2001. The annualized selling rate was 17.2 million, according to Autodata.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited December 2014
    Here is my list of the best of the best smaller Suv's . In no particular order . All are great choices depending on your needs and what you like.


    1- Honda CRV exl model

    2- Acura RDX

    3- Audi Q-5

    4- Subaru Forrester

    5- BMW X-3

    6- Mazda Cx5

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    I also like the Nissan Rogue and the Buick Encore.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited December 2014
    I also like the new 2015, Rogue probably not in the same class as above mentioned picks. There are to many noted complaints with there CVT Transmission in that model.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,320
    Ford Escape is a great little CUV. Get the 2.0 and it will never feel underpowered. My wife has had 3 of them and we have passed the first 2 on to our kids. Now she wants an MKC. I don't think she will go back to a mid size sedan. Last one she had was a 96 SHO.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Since this is now the Small SUV discussion ;) I'll chime in that I think the new HR-V will be a huge hit. Maybe the new CX-3 also, but I expect the HR-V will win the capacity/flexibility battle, while the CX-3 will be the better handling vehicle. Not that my wife will care about that!
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    m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    From what I've read the CX-3 will have more HP than the HR-V but be just a tad smaller capacity. The CX-3 is supposed to get the base 155 HP 2.0L from the Mazda3 and the HR-V is getting something like 118 hp or something like that. Quite a difference.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    138 hp on the HR-V. If I weren't going to be getting the small SUV for my wife, it might matter. :) I know the Magic Seats will matter! I'll check out both of them, though. We won't be getting the SUV for nearly a year. Plenty of time for test drives! A gently used CR-V or Forester is another option--would probably cost the same or less than a new HR-V or CX-3.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    backy said:

    A gently used CR-V or Forester is another option--would probably cost the same or less than a new HR-V or CX-3.

    From the asking prices I've seen, used CR-V's are like used Accords and Civics - they get stupid money.
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    nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,434
    robr2 said:

    backy said:

    A gently used CR-V or Forester is another option--would probably cost the same or less than a new HR-V or CX-3.

    From the asking prices I've seen, used CR-V's are like used Accords and Civics - they get stupid money.
    Used Foresters aren't exactly cheap either.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    A quick local search pulls up several 2-3 year old CR-Vs with ~30k miles or less for under $19k asking price, from dealers. Starting price for the HR-V is reported to be ~$20k. Also several newer, low-miles Foresters under $19k, e.g. a 2012 X AT, 15k miles, $19k.
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    ahightowerahightower Member Posts: 539
    backy said:

    Since this is now the Small SUV discussion ;) I'll chime in that I think the new HR-V will be a huge hit. Maybe the new CX-3 also, but I expect the HR-V will win the capacity/flexibility battle, while the CX-3 will be the better handling vehicle. Not that my wife will care about that!

    Agreed. The HRV is basically the size of the original CRV. That remains a very popular used car, I still see them everywhere around here. HRV is going to be a hit. People love the current small CUVs - CRV, RAV4, etc. - but they have gotten pricy. I wouldn't say the CRV is "too big" by any stretch, but the upcoming micro-SUVs will be plenty big enough for anyone under 6' tall and without children in the house. Of course the Honda Element was meant to fill that niche and it never quite took off, perhaps a little too funky, but times have changed a bit.
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    ahightowerahightower Member Posts: 539
    robr2 said:

    backy said:

    A gently used CR-V or Forester is another option--would probably cost the same or less than a new HR-V or CX-3.

    From the asking prices I've seen, used CR-V's are like used Accords and Civics - they get stupid money.
    Also true. This is why I bought my Accord new. Why buy a lightly used Honda when cheap financing nearly offsets the low depreciation, and you get to be the one putting those first 40-50K on it? And my Mazda3 new, back in '07, for 15% less than the comparable new Civic, or very little more than a three-year-old used one.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    backy said:

    A quick local search pulls up several 2-3 year old CR-Vs with ~30k miles or less for under $19k asking price, from dealers. Starting price for the HR-V is reported to be ~$20k. Also several newer, low-miles Foresters under $19k, e.g. a 2012 X AT, 15k miles, $19k.

    Around here only 2-3 year old LX (2012) models can be had under $20. The EX's are typically $22K and above.

    A dealer is asking almost $24K for a 2012 EX-L with 35K miles. A 2015 is $29K and one could easily get that to $27-27.5. IMHO, buying it used, makes no sense.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    brian125 said:

    Here is my list of the best of the best smaller Suv's . In no particular order . All are great choices depending on your needs and what you like.


    1- Honda CRV exl model

    2- Acura RDX

    3- Audi Q-5

    4- Subaru Forrester

    5- BMW X-3

    6- Mazda Cx5

    Audi has a nnew smaller CUV..the Q3. With the 220 hp 2.0 me likey
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2014
    backy said:

    I got my M/T COTY issue today. The Golf took the golden calipers, not a surprise as it's a great car and a favorite of the automotive press. None of the mid-sized sedan contenders made it to Finalist--200, Legacy, nor Sonata. They praised the 200 and Sonata as being big improvements over their prior iterations, but not enough to be a Finalist. They liked the Legacy but said it wasn't "innovative" enough. Not sure what kind of innovation they're looking for in a mid-sized sedan. They've pretty much been perfected, IMO. Even the 200 seems like a very nice car.

    But then, the TLX didn't make Finalist either, and I wouldn't mind having one of those in my garage.

    But for those shopping for minivans... the new Sedona was a Finalist. :p

    I think the Chrysler 200 is pretty and all...but look at their track record.The mid-90's "cab forward" cars...the Intrepid and the first gen (well, resurrected new gen 300's, etc) all of them are in junk yards,.Very few still on the road. Most in junk yards,.Having Fiat platforms under a lot of these
    Chriat's spurs zero confidence in me, I will never buy one...I don't even have any desire to go look at their offerings. You either get a ghetto 300, a euro-ghetto 200, and then they do a full flip and offer the same 300 platform as an all American muscle car Chargers, Challengers, etc. I just don't trust them. Unless you buy a macked out Challenger 392 or Charger special model X, drive it for 10,000 miles, then dump some sta-bil in the tank and leave it for 40 years under a tarp, your wasting your money. Oh, You have to take the rims off too and stack them sideways and leave the car on jack stands. Who in their right mind is gonna do that? No one.

    BTW. Does ANYONE remember the first gen Chrysler 300 from the 50's and 60's? I don't either.
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    m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited December 2014
    Re midsize sedans.....just read an article about how Mazda is still trying to get it's diesel right to bring it to the U.S. in the Mazda6. Seems they aren't satisfied with the power it's putting out after meeting the standards here. At least that's what they say is the problem. Anyway, saw on the news where the lowest gas price in the country is in OK City and is $1.99 for RUG. On the same sign I noticed that diesel was $3.39. I know it's somewhat of an extreme occurrence but it would make me think twice ab out getting a diesel.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    cski said:

    Audi has a nnew smaller CUV..the Q3. With the 220 hp 2.0 me likey

    $32.5 for FWD. Ouch.
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    wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    BTW. Does ANYONE remember the first gen Chrysler 300 from the 50's and 60's? I don't either.

    I'm 57 and I do remember them. They were the first hemi engines used by Chrysler and the cars were tanks. IIRC, they used the 392 hemi engine in the 50s and 60s.
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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    1955 was the 1st year for the 300. They took the front of a Imperial and combined it with another car don't remember. Chrysler's hemi engine came out around 1951 maybe 52. I'm sure you could find pic's online of this vehicle.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited December 2014
    Here is a pic. of the 55. Check out some of the other sharp looking cars from that era.


    http://search.aol.com/aol/imageDetails?s_it=imageDetails&q=pictures+1955+chrysler++300&v_t=msie70a&b=image?query=pictures+1955+chrysler++300&invocationType=msie70a&oreq=56a9842b54ea464da673d895693f475b&img=http://m0.i.pbase.com/u26/xl1ken/upload/19276640.027lo.jpg&host=http://www.pbase.com/image/19276640&width=132&height=85&thumbUrl=https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvfZvYpU5q061Hi1GoMLdEhI8ulJ3jKG3bd4YERUNM1VKp4H16sWYmZ88&imgWidth=800&imgHeight=515&imgSize=75746&imgTitle=pictures+1955+chrysler++300

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    robr2 said:



    Around here only 2-3 year old LX (2012) models can be had under $20. The EX's are typically $22K and above.

    A dealer is asking almost $24K for a 2012 EX-L with 35K miles. A 2015 is $29K and one could easily get that to $27-27.5. IMHO, buying it used, makes no sense.

    The HR-V will start at ~$20k. For an LX, FWD. An EX-L will be a lot more, especially if it's AWD. In my area I see several 2011 CR-V EX-L AWD models, between 30-50k miles, for $20-21k list price at dealers. List price for a 2015 EX-L AWD is $30k, no options. Deals can be had on used vehicles also. I think getting a 3-year-old loaded CR-V AWD for about the same money as a base FWD HR-V is worth thinking about.

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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited December 2014
    2011 lexus, ct 200h

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/cto/4772036116.html

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    backy said:

    robr2 said:



    Around here only 2-3 year old LX (2012) models can be had under $20. The EX's are typically $22K and above.

    A dealer is asking almost $24K for a 2012 EX-L with 35K miles. A 2015 is $29K and one could easily get that to $27-27.5. IMHO, buying it used, makes no sense.

    The HR-V will start at ~$20k. For an LX, FWD. An EX-L will be a lot more, especially if it's AWD. In my area I see several 2011 CR-V EX-L AWD models, between 30-50k miles, for $20-21k list price at dealers. List price for a 2015 EX-L AWD is $30k, no options. Deals can be had on used vehicles also. I think getting a 3-year-old loaded CR-V AWD for about the same money as a base FWD HR-V is worth thinking about.

    I guess what I meant is that a used CR-V is not that great of an option over a new CR-V for just a little bit more.

    Yes I agree that the HR-V LX will start around $20K and that a used 2-3 YO CR-V LX would be around the same price. I would presume that one could extrapolate that to the EX or EX-L versions. If so, then the jump to a new CR-V wouldn't be that big.
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    MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 241,316
    FYI, I've started a new discussion to address the CUV vs. sedan phenomenon:

    http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/31131/general/x/small-crossovers-will-they-replace-the-mid-sized-sedan?new=1

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

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    nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,434
    brian125 said:

    2011 lexus, ct 200h

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/cto/4772036116.html

    Nice car. Nice price. What's with the Jersey tags and listing it on Staten Island's CL?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Probably works in SI.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Folks typically post a vehicle for sale to all CL locations within surrounding cities and/or states.
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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,557
    That's a dealer. Jersey rear tag which I bet is a dealer tag. Never had a front tag, and it has PA inspection sticker on windshield.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,320
    Went through my first tank of premium fuel in my Fusion of my 3 tank test. Filled up at 375 miles, so this is the first tank in a long time I've gotten less than 400 miles from. Was kind of disappointed until I looked at last year's numbers, about 2 mpg less last year. Premium is 48 cents more a gallon. Although the car runs a little smoother, I'm driving faster, so I'll go back to RUG after the 3rd tank. When the weather warms up, maybe I'll try the same thing again. It took my 16 days to go through this tank of fuel. I'm kind of shocked how little I've driven the car this year.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    I am so happy not to have a vehicle that requires Premium, and that gets really good gas mileage too. After we sold the Maxima and got the Accord our monthly fuel costs really went down. I was surprised how much of a difference it has made.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Wow. 3 years and 34k later and she still looks like this! I loved the rear drive Mustang, and I think it is Fords best base model that they are going to sell a boatload of them, but there are things about my car that just blow it away. I will have a Mustang one day...just not done with ,y car yet. Not dont wit its looks, space, no trouble whatsoever, and the extra doors are a must for a family. The bottom line is the irresponsible part of me that so badly wants to go in and say "I'll take it" to the 2.3 turbo, 6 speed manual in greenish/black with the track-pack and the grey chrome 18" rims.

    But that is just a dream. A dream I have actually had. Until I take a long look at mine!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I do want to get a car with over 300 HP next time.
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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited December 2014
    Your Kia is Still in excellent condition. If you plan on upgrading vehicles next year would be the time to make the move before your Optima really starts to depreciate. You still might be able to get 14.5k right now. This keeping your payments down on the new......... Stang.

    Just a Dream

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2014
    My neighbor offered 16k CASH if I include he Kicker system w/ AUX sub level control, dual amps, dual subs and all tuned in with the stock headunit so everything on the steering wheel works.. He knows how I baby it so to him it's worth 16 flat. I owe $12,500. I think it will hold its price well as long as I sell it with at least 6 months of warranty left. I am probably going to teach my daughter to drive on it (or maybe I should use my moms 2010 Forte' lol). It has so many dings and dents that she probably wouldn't notice a few more.

    My oldest will be 15 in October, but I find that the older I get, the faster time goes. I have a feeling the Optima will be THE family car until it no longer makes monetary sense to maintain it. I bet I will still get $5,000 for it in 5 years.,

    So, any car on the road today is moot for me. Yes I have always wanted a Mustang and I WILL have one, but not until my duties as a father are wrapped up for the most part. The kids come first.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You'll get a lot more than $5k for your Optima after 5 years, if you keep it maintained and in good condition. For example, KBB says my nearly 11-year-old 2004 Elantra GT hatchback, with 105k, in "Good" condition is worth $3000 in a private party sale. That car listed for $17.4k in 2004 and I bought it for $13.2k. Cars keep increasing in price, plus Kia's reputation is on the upswing.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes, But the market here is saturated. There are so many cars available that is really a buyers market. WHat I am counting on is the beauty of the car.

    Example. 1997 Acura Integra GS-R. I would buy one with the 5-speed and the wing right now for $6000 in excellent condition with less than 100k. It's a beautiful, killer handling, with a super-engineered, sweet sounding when revved V-Tech engine.

    Next example: 3rd Generation Toyota Celica (81-85). This car weighed very little, had great quality, and had the biggest 4 cyl ever offered in a celica, a 2.4 liter in the GTS model. Made that period Mustangs quiver in their shocks. In immaculate condition $5000

    So, really depends on the car of course. I think the style of my car along with the quality interior and the good power in the base engine will make this car a classic in 10 years
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I owned an '82 Celica GT Liftback, ice blue. My first stick shift. Bought it new. Loved that car. Got rear-ended by a garbage truck, and never seemed to drive quite the same after that.

    I've been thinking of getting an RSX when the lease on my Rio expires. Not that expensive and a lot more fun than something like a Rio.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    backy said:

    I owned an '82 Celica GT Liftback, ice blue. My first stick shift. Bought it new. Loved that car. Got rear-ended by a garbage truck, and never seemed to drive quite the same after that.

    I've been thinking of getting an RSX when the lease on my Rio expires. Not that expensive and a lot more fun than something like a Rio.

    I bet there was a lot less back seat space after that rear ender too....
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    nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,434
    I'm close to the 4K mile mark on my Legacy. I averaged 25.1 on my last tank which included a few cold morning warm ups & a bit more in town driving than usual.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,557
    I'm up to almost 500 miles. might have to get gas for the 2nd time before christmas. just about at a 1/2 tank now, but I don't think it filled all the way the one time I got gas (I believe the pump clicked off early, and there was no topping off). The TC for this tank (all local, with short highway bursts a few times heading into the city) is sitting at ~ 26.2.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I see a lot of Rio's on the road. They always look clean and have very modern compact car looks, just not much power. If you want the very best small hatchback it's the Honda Fit. Still not exactly a good example of automotive prowess. I can't believe the poor reviews on the Civic, while the Accords enjoy many accolades.

    after driving the 2.3T Mustang with the premium package I have to say that will be my next car. Not immediately, though. there are not enough of them on dealer lots to put me in a good position on a deal. So, I am looking at next December (the last sales day as our tradition demands.)

    Also....I have to take all of the kids to the dealer and see if they fit. No fit, no Mustang for daddy
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    nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,434
    "Also....I have to take all of the kids to the dealer and see if they fit. No fit, no Mustang for daddy"

    Ahhhh practicality. Everybody's worst enemy. I'm sure it would be a tight squeeze (depending on how big your kids are and how often you have all 3 of them in the car with you), but not as tight as the Mustang. I know you are looking for a little more zip. Would you consider a WRX?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,557
    Kids in the mustang? I hope they are tiny. And if you are tall the seat behind you will be useless.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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