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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,018
    I think it and the BMW version are answers to questions nobody is asking. A few will like it because it's different but I think that's about it.
  • I sat in one a couple of weeks ago. The headroom was fine (and I'm a tall guy), but in the cockpit you would not mistake it for an Accord...lots of the features are similar, but you can immediately tell you're in a bigger vehicle. What surprised me was the limited space in the back. The floor isn't flat, so as the roofline gets higher, the floor slopes up somewhat to meet it. It was only a quick look, so it might have been the rear seats folded down that contributed to the effect. However, I was expecting a massive cargo area, and it wasn't nearly that: I've seen smaller hatchbacks that were more functional -- the 2000-era Saab 9-3 comes to mind.

    BTW re. the other discussion string, I saw the Crosstour while I was picking up my new Accord Coupe. I think it's a pretty sharp design, an exception to what you typically see from Honda.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,726
    Might have been the sunroof or legroom, but it sure seemed more cramped up front than the Accord sedan next to it in the showroom. Speaking of coupes, I wonder how that new Caddy is going to do?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    Not sure about that. If the battery is truly dead and completely out of juice then I'd imagine you would have to get the spare key or do the logical thing and call Ford roadside assistance or AAA to jump the battery so you can get in and on your way again. You'll have to do the latter anyway but I guess you need to get in before you can pop the hood so someone will have to bring the spare to you. That's why I always make my wife carry the spare when we go on long trips. You never know when you might need it. :)
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Ford gives you a key code sticker to keep in your wallet, If you ever needed to you can call roadside assistance, give them the code and they will bring you a key to get in. You can also use that code to have a wallet key made like you mentioned.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I just saw a Hyundai commercial last night which showed the whole Hyundai line up, including the re designed Santa Fe, Tuscon and Sonata. They looked pretty good. Do any of you Hyundai fan boys know when the 2011 Sonata is due to go on sale?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    You might get more of a response if you avoided the inaccurate and insulting term "fan boy". :P
  • I agree with you backy. Yes I do.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159

    It was not meant to be insulting! Why would you take it that way??? Usually "fans" of a specific brand are up to snuff a little quicker then the rest of us!

    So, to be a little more polite, I guess, does anyone have any accurate info as to when we can expect the new Sonata? How's that??? :P
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    "Fan" is fine. "Fan boy" is insulting. Now that you know that, I hope you won't use that term anymore.

    The answer is... any day now. They are in production in Alabama and should show up at dealers by Super Bowl time, maybe earlier depending on where you live.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    "Fan boy" is insulting. Now that you know that, I hope you won't use that term anymore.

    You may find it insulting, but, it is a term commonly used in these threads, and it is not insulting term. Maybe YOU find it insulting...that's not my problem. It is a term used for very passionate "fans" of something. Hence why I used it because I would think the die hard Hyundai "fans" would be the best source to gather info from....honestly, I think you were a bit too sensitive, IMO

    Anyway, I'm actually pretty excited to see it. My Mazda store is next to Hyundai and I am eager to see how it looks in person. From the pic's, it does look a little awkward from some angles. The interior looks fantastic! Hyundai is really a hot product right now!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    I don't see how fanboy is a positive term.

    Someone (normally male) who is utterly devoted to a single subject or hobby, often to the point where it is considered an obsession.

    The term originated in comic book circles, to describe someone who was socially insecure and used comics as a shield from interaction, hence the disparaging connotations. Fanboys are often experts on minor details regarding their hobbies, such as continuity in fictional universes, and they take these details extremely seriously. The term itself is often used in a derogatory manner by less serious fans of the same material.

    If a term is considered derogatory "often"... why insist on using it when others have told you it's offensive? Especially when it's not necessary to get your message across?

    I guess that's expected though from a sales shyster like you. No offense meant of course. :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I gotta agree that I'd see being referred as a "fanboy" as a negative. I don't think I'd want to respond to anyone who asked something like: "so what do you fanboys know about...", as responding would mean I am agreeing that I am a fanboy.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,854
    some people have thin skin. i think they are a bit insecure. it's only cars.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    I read a lot of car blogs and I don't think I have ever seen the word "fanboy" used other than in a disparaging manner. It's usually used when someone wants to put someone else down for being closedminded about only one brand.

    Since this is a midsize car discussion and not a "Hyundai fanboy" discussion, I just chose not to answer. From what I've seen of Aviboy's other posts though, I don't think it was meant with ill will and nothing to get excited about.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    I understand. I realize you Found on Road Dead / Fix Or Repair Daily rabid fanatics have to stick together.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's stop the insults and personal comments. The points have all been made. If people say things you don't like, you can skip the post - really. What you cannot do is control what someone else does, only how you choose to respond - or whether you do at all. Why not take the high road.

    Back to the cars, please.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,854
    i have thick skin. and my point is proven.
    personally, i didn't see any bad intent in avi's post.
    i don't want the discussion 'here' to degenerate into what happens 'there'.
    you won't let it happen, and that is one of the things that separates 'here' from 'there'.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,854
    not taking the high road is a lost opportunity.
    i have been following the new Sonata not to buy one, but to figure out if it is a game changer in relation to the competition.
    i have my eye on something else, but am hoping the competition will have to up their game to compete.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • I have my eye on the 2011 Sonata and I am ready to put my money where my eye is. Here is an excerpt from an article in Car and Driver by Jared Gall published in September 2009.

    Car and Driver
    Sept 2009
    by Jared Gall

    Excerpt from article about the 2011 Sonata
    Don't I wish his guess that the $17,600 would stand firm here in America.

    In Korea, power will come from a 2.0-liter four-cylinder making 163 hp. Our standard motor in the U.S. will be a larger, 2.4-liter four with direct injection and unspecified output we predict will be around 190 hp. Production of the 2011 Hyundai Sonata for U.S. consumption will begin early in 2010 at the company’s factory in Alabama, with deliveries to commence shortly thereafter. Although the Sonata’s sheetmetal might ape the nearly $30,000 Volkswagen CC, its price, thankfully, will not. Hyundai says pricing will begin at the equivalent of $17,600 in Korea, and we expect that won’t change much when it hits American dealerships.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 268
    The Volkswagen CC is built 100% in Germany and it's much better quality than the Alabama built Sonata. The new 2011 Sonata is NOT going to be better built than the German made VW CC. Mark my words. You get what you pay for. The American built 2011 Sonata will NEVER be better than the German built VW CC. Never!
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    The Volkswagen CC is built 100% in Germany and it's much better quality than the Alabama built Sonata. The new 2011 Sonata is NOT going to be better built than the German made VW CC. Mark my words. You get what you pay for. The American built 2011 Sonata will NEVER be better than the German built VW CC. Never!

    Uhh, proof?

    How about the actual vehicles that belong in the midsize discussion from VW (Jetta, Passat)? How about the fact that VW as a whole has been at or near the bottom of quality/reliability surveys for the better part of the last 15 years? How about the constant complaints from current and former VW owners about electrical glitches, engines and transmissions failing, suspension and alignment problems, interior pieces snapping off in one's hands? The list goes on...

    VW builds great driving vehicles, as long as you have a second vehicle and don't mind becoming drinking buddies with the entire service department at the local dealer.

    While Hyundai has had problem in the (now distant) past, I'd trust ANY current Hyundai on the dealer lot compared to a VW.
  • fushigifushigi Chicago suburbsPosts: 1,381
    Not to defend cobra, but the CC reference started with the quoted text fro the C&D article. So I can understand a reply including it even if it is out of scope for the discussion.

    Every VW owner I've ever owned has loved their cars from a ride and comfort POV but all have sworn to never buy another due to the myriad problems, each requiring a dealer visit and $200-400 cash outlay.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    The American built 2011 Sonata will NEVER be better than the German built VW CC. Never!

    Don't get carried away, my friend. I'm a big fan of German cars - I drive & love a BMW - but I also know that German cars, no matter how expensive, can be problematic. When it comes to building consistently reliable vehicles, the top Asian manufacturers passed the Germans years ago. That's why my other car is a Honda CR-V.

    I know from experience that "built 100% in Germany" is no guarantee that the damned thing will start tomorrow morning.

    I'm not sure that I'd ever want to be wholly dependent on German cars for my transportation needs.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Sounds good, but I make it a practice to avoid any all-new model, no matter who makes it, until it's been in production & on sale for at least 12 months.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    While Hyundai has had problem in the (now distant) past, I'd trust ANY current Hyundai on the dealer lot compared to a VW.

    I have to agree.

    While the CC will win any beauty contest, the long term durability is just not there yet. VW has made some strides in the right direction, however, they are not there yet....

    Hyundai on the other hand is the hottest car company in North America right now. There is enormous content out there verifying how much better they have become. If I were a consumer, I would have to take a look at Hyundai. Wow...there...I said it....I never thought I would, but, Yes, I would consider a Hyundai. Mainly the Elantra or Sonata.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    Re Sonata and CC, I really think we need to see/drive the 2011 Sonata before any comparison on quality can be made. I've found VWs to be superior to Hyundais in some areas, e.g. structural strength (compare crash tests of the Elantra to Rabbit/Golf or Passat to Sonata, for example), overall ride and handling, interior materials (although the latest Hyundai models are really good there), and driving position (I think Hyundai has actually slipped there over the past few years, on their bread-and-butter sedans including the Sonata). But I'd bet on Hyundai and the Sonata any day over your average VW on reliability. Some of their models are pretty good there, though, e.g. Rabbit/Golf.

    But the biggest difference between the Sonata and Passat is the price. The Sonata will start around $20k and top out (estimated) under $30k. In other words, you can get a fully loaded Sonata with all the toys for the price of a base Passat. The Sonata with its 2.4L DI (and later the hybrid powertrain) will cream the Passat on FE also. Ride, handling, NVH, interior quality, performance? We'll have to see.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    How about the actual vehicles that belong in the midsize discussion from VW (Jetta, Passat)?

    Isn't the CC a midsize sedan? It's based on the Passat. What about the Jetta you mention, I thought that competes against the compacts like Corolla, Mazda3 and Civic. Please don't throw EPA volume numbers at me because if you did we couldn't even talk about the Sonata or the Accord because they are classed as large now. I don't see anything wrong with mentioning it.

    I do totally agree with you about the VW dependability though. I've owned several and have a nephew who is a VW technician. He tells me to buy Japanese/Korean if I don't want to spend a lot of time/money on repairs and maintenance. I do like the looks and driving experience of the German cars though but not enough to make the switch. It's a personal preference kind of thing IMO.
  • My daughter lives in North Highlands,Ca and commutes M-F to Roseville,Ca on I80, very heavy traffic and many times stop and go. She bought a new Elantra in 2005. It has never given her a minute of trouble. About 2 years ago, a man blew a stop and T-boned her [on the passenger side] , and pushed her a few feet sideways. Her injuries? Her asthma flared up and she was sore from seatbelt bruising. The Elantra? Replaced door and front fender. Frame was not bent. Instead of totaling the Elantra they were able to repair it. Now, many thousands of miles later it still runs well and handles well with no rattles. As her father, I praise the Lord for Hynndai Elantra's craftmanship and stability. One of the many reasons we are buying a 2011 Sonata SE as soon as they get to a Sacramento,Ca dealer.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    I am hoping the 2011 Sonata will be able to (finally) earn top scores from the IIHS, and that the 2011 (2012?) Elantra will be able to get something better than Marginal in the side impact test. Anything that improves my odds in a crash, I like.
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