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As far as putting in 160HP in the 05 - no way. Honda has never made those kinds of changes within the same generation. You'll have to wait for 06. But if history is anything to go on, the HP won't be much of an increase. Since 1992, the Civic EX V-TEC engine has gone from 125HP to 127HP in today's 2004 EX. Back in 1992, 125HP was a class leader and the Civic was always the performance benchmark in the economy class. Now the Civic has been Buick-ized for an older customer. Well engineered? Yes. But also underwhelming.
On the scale of things that are going to be need replacement by 90,000 miles, timing belt is miniscule. Add up the oil changes, gas fill ups, tire replacements, brake work, filter replacements and the $600 timing belt charge is nothing. The belt itself is only $20-50, most of the cost is the labor and "recommended" water pump replacement. If the $600 out of $20,000-$25,000 (initial purchase price+Interest+maintenance+replacements/repair+fuel) by the time you reach 90,000 miles is what breaks the bank, then you are in over your head. No one said that owning a new car was cheap.
If the belt is such a big concern, I am sure you can convert it to timing chain with aftermarket parts. You would just need to get sprokets, and properly sized double linked chain.
As far as Si's driving dynamics, take one for a test drive. I was sold on the spot. And, by the way, all of K-series engines have timing chain. But, none of the K-series engines can achieve the fuel economy that D-, and B-series (with timing belt) engines enjoy. I don't know if it is due to the chain alone, but it is a fact. So, yes, I will not have the $600 timing belt replacement charge by 90,000 miles, but I will spend $1500 more in gas over the same 90,000 miles.
Assumptions: D-series engine 40 MPG, K-series engine 30 MPG.(90,000 miles/MPG)x$2.00 gal=$ cost of gas over 90,000 miles.
Since 1992, the Civic EX V-TEC engine has gone from 125HP to 127HP in today's 2004 EX. Back in 1992, 125HP was a class leader and the Civic was always the performance benchmark in the economy class.
Yes, but you failed to realize that torque has been increasing with every revision. One does not live by the HP alone. The 1972 Lincoln only had 100 hp, but can do mad burnouts.
Only if they rebadge it as Si coupe.
Wouldn't it be better to have just price plus intertest plus maintenance plus replacements WITHOUT a 600$ timing belt every 60, 80, 90K or whatever!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Which is the better buy, the Si or the factory modified coupe, (a dream for some day)?
More rear room in our sedan than in the '94 Mercedes C280 it replaces - was eating me up in big maintenance/repair expenses. Civic's only a couple of inches shorter. I like the size of the Civic and it's light weight better than the Accord, not to mention economy.
Am thinking of installing Falken Azenis Sport 205/50-15s on it, would make speedometer read about 5% fast.
Just some thoughts,
AndySanDiego
Andy
Andy
ps. let us know how it all works out for you, thanks.
Is this a good price in anyone's opinion?
The new timing belt replacement schedule is 90,000 miles. But you missed the point that I was trying to make. What would you rather have, a $600 timing belt replacement charge at 90,000 miles or pay $1500 more in gas in the same $1500 miles? Yes, a single $600 charge is tougher to swallow than a $1 here and a $1 there which will ultimateley add up to $1500.
Maybe I'm out of line here, but aren't big reasons to buy a Civic (a new one, at least) in the first place the mileage and low emissions, both of which could be in jeopardy with an exhaust modification? I say, if you want a 140-hp car, just buy one from the factory (like a Mazda3, perhaps?).
First, this car replaces my wife’s sedan. That’s why it’s a sedan and automatic, but I can’t keep my fingers off it since it’s a fun-to-drive car, and my wife is very tolerant. I just prefer the Civic to the Mazda3.
Yesterday, the entire stock exhaust system, from the cat back of course, was unbolted, removed, and stored. Emissions are not affected. Also, warranty is not an issue because it says, “The warranties in this booklet do not cover: Any failure caused by modifying the vehicle, or installing accessories not authorized by Honda.” All the engine knows is that the backpressure is reduced. It’s serviced by a non-dealer Honda specialist – not the dealer, and just in case, the original exhaust can easily be bolted back in place.
So, from the cat back, they replaced the stock system with 2-inch tubing, with a Series 50 Flowmaster muffler and a chromed megaphone tip. That eliminated the stock resonator (a small but restrictive muffler) as well as the main muffler. The manager recommended the new Series 60 Flowmaster muffler, which is intended specially for “imports,” which I take to mean small displacement four-cylinder cars. I listened to the 60 on his Nissan truck, but thought it too mild. I should have listened inside the vehicle under load and acceleration. My error. So I went for the less restrictive 50. Wow! You just want to wind it up on every start, and I’m convinced it has noticeably more power.
As to economics, due to the lowered backpressure, Flowmaster claims 10% more horsepower, and 5-10% better gas mileage – so I figure it’ll pay for itself eventually.
But, right now, it’s a bit too loud inside the vehicle. So I have an appointment for next Wednesday when (for an additional $75) he’ll add a small ”cherry bomb” resonator which, he says, will tone down the sound a bit but retain the “performance” - lowered back pressure, keeping the power and gas mileage gains. Had I installed the 60 in the first place, I’d probably be all set. However, there’s no question in my mind that I won’t get there eventually.
Bought a 2002 Civic Coupe EX 5-speed with 28K miles, silver, from Cush Honda Escondido, CA. No certified program. Got the car for $13K, it was listed at $14.9K.
Cush Acura was great; helpful, courteous, professional, knowledgable. Cush Honda downthe block was also good with the financing, servicing. As a whole, Honda service is horrible. Cush Honda service in Mission Valley is downright rude.
Have owned, in order, 94 Sentra XE Auto (bought at 86K miles for $4900, sold at 106K miles for $4700), 91 Accord LX Coupe 5-speed (bought at 147K miles for $2600, sold at 202K miles for $1500), 99 Prelude 5-speed (bought at 22K miles for $17500, sold at 74K miles for $12,900), 00 Accord EXL 5-speed (bought at 30K miles for $13500, sold at 62K miles for $12800), and now the 02 Civic.
The Civic interior is very nice, although I also like the Mazda 3s The Civic has higher quality materials but is not as sporty or modern. Typical simple but nice Honda design. Love the big dials and guages. Good visibility. Center radio controls are a bit high and far, but not a huge problem. But they do get really hot from the sun through the windsheild. Seats are least comfortable of any Honda Ive owned. No remote trunk release, no lighted visors (they should be on the EX), but power sunroof tilt and slide, tweeters in the A-pillars, and lots of storage space. Roomy in all positions for a compact car, big trunk.
Steering is nice, good weight, decent feedback. Undertired, like all factory Hondas. Ride is decent, rear suspension has much more impact force than the front. Brakes have good feel. Handling is decent, but not as sporty as the Maxda 3. Good ride/handling compromise for the masses. Engine is ok with the 5-speed, power comes on past 4K rpm, smooth, quiet for a cheap car, could be quieter at high rpms. Could definitely use more low end power, although its not bad for a 1.7-liter. Fuel mileage is great. 34 in mixed driving, including a few redline shifts. Close to 40 on highway trips. Could use larger gas tank. Clutch is great, smooth, light, precise, don’t mind having it in traffic. The 6-speed in the TSX and RSX is a bit more precise and mechanically positive.
Overall, I like the car a lot. It fits well. I am adding a AEM cold air intake, Eibach Pro-Kit lowering springs, and 16” rims with 205/50 tires. Will post later to share the results of those additions.
Of course, these are True Market Value (TMV) prices and I used my own zipcode in the Southeastern USA to arrive at the new Civic price. Your mileage, er dollars, may vary.
(1) our 15-year-old is in Driver's Ed at High School and he's supposed to get a number of hours driving in. We have two 5-speeds, and he's slowly learning how to modulate the clutch pedal (very unsuccessfully).
(2) if we replace my '99 Accord with an automatic, it would be a bonus if we had the occassonal storage capacity of a hatchback or wagon. My wife sees a lot of Home Depot / Lowe's soil, mulch and potted plants filling up the back of the CRV. I see a couple mtn. bikes filling the same space on weekends.
So after taking a CRV out, I had a fun time winding the EX up along some twisty little roads. Much more fun than the CRV.
(Wishing for a 5-door Civic or a compact-sized Scion xA.)
I wonder how many Civics would've sold if they'd made a "regular" version of the Si--same high-MPG engine as the sedan and offering an auto trans.
Next year, when the Jazz/Fit arrives, it will probably take care of any need for a 5-door Civic, at least in Honda's thinking. Too bad...
Teaching a kid to drive stick on a brand new car is not a good idea. Get a $500 junker to teach and then graduate to newer car, but still, not the brand new Si. Maybe after 5 years of driving junkers, your sons can try the new car, which will be 5 years old by then.
No calls so far...I thought that the phone would be ringing off the hook. I used KBB to price it, and mentioned in the ad that the car has 1 owner with all maint records. It has 93k miles, auto , a/c, newer tires & brakes & I am asking $5,000.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts-
The bad? It's a DX. Most folks want the extras.
The high miles aren't helping you a bit.
On the good side, it has A/C and automatic and you have it priced fairly.
Be patient, it should sell quickly. a lot of "back to school" buyers out there now.
If you want to pay $16K that Edmunds states as TMV I'll happily accept the $1500 difference!
$14K for a used 2 door EX is no bargain at all.
I don't add any options (Edmunds doesn't seem to let me, anyway), I pick Taffeta White for color, and plug in 35758 as my zip code.
So if chillenhonda bought his 2002 (?) Civic EX 2-door coupe for $13,000, he saved about $3000 over a new Civic at TMV.
I'm not sure where the "current price" of $14,500 comes from.
Maybe more will call once the Sunday paper comes out.
I will say though, that the civic clutch, although very smooth, is a bit of a pain to operate. The wheel well seems to force your left foot over to the middle more than is comfortable. Anyone else have this issue?
For all "traffic impared" "bumper-to-bumper" does not really mean you have to ride the bumper of the car infront of you. Leave some room to coast and you will see the benefits of manual over auto.
What has worked was to have him plant his heel and then pull the toes backward, letting out the pedal. Much smoother for him, but not perfect...yet.
Out on city streets, I'm concerned that there'll be a lot of situations where he'll have to drop into neutral and then get into gear, like approaching an intersection with a yield or with blocked visibility. So know what you can do with the pedal, and getting into neutral, even temporarily, is my goal.
Unless, as my wife wants, we go out and spend a fortune on a CR-V (which, as she says, is the perfect vehicle for her).
Where's that Civic 5-door?
My worry is that some college kid will be calling me a month down the road if there is some problem & I don't want the head ache.
I lve in NYS & as far as I know, the rule used to be that a private party could sell as car as is & not have to worry about the buyer expecting any kind of warranty ( express or implied ).
I don;t know if you can shed any light about this...I was gonna call the dealer tomorrow to see if they could give me some advice or a place to get the answer in NYS.
If you keep a little bit of a distance between you and the car infornt of you, you won't have to clutch as often. So, what is the difference between pressing on the clutch or the brake contantly? I see none. Honda clutch is not any more stiffer than brakes, so the effort is almost equal. At least with the clutch, you get both legs/feet working instead of just the right one.
The upcoming Honda Stream.