quote: "Mine was one of the first delivered to Louisiana, and was supposed to have all options however, no bluetooth phone capabilities, and no satelite radio"
PTI/Bluetooth was a "delayed availability" option -- it still isn't in the LR3 ordering system. There is no factory satellite radio option; it was never advertised to have one.
As you've noted in your posts, the LR3 is always stalling and can't drive in snow, along with many other faults.
It's hard to imagine why anyone would want one after knowing that. Isn't it strange how many people have bought them and claim to love them? I guess they just don't get it.
I really can't advise you to even think about buying one because, as your name suggests, you'd never be able to relax and enjoy the drive for worrying about which of the many problems were about to befall you next.
The best vehicle for you would be one with 100% reliability from day one. I can't remember which one that is at the moment, but I'll get back to you.
Best regards,
Mac24
P.S. You obviously missed the emoticon at the end of my last post to you, so here it is again:
;--)
It's a wink, as in "Lighten up, don't take all this too seriously!"
Now I've got it! I'd thought you meant the brake lights wouldn't work when you braked after stalling, as it seems that most of these incidents happened when braking or manouvering slowly.
It was a tongue-in-cheek reply to scared, who's only posts have been to pick up on the few teething problems that the LR3 has had, and to question why anyone would buy one.
OK Group - Why don't those of you both having stalling problems and those free of problems start collecting some troub leshooting information. How about seeing if you can post descriptions, pictures and/or part numbers for the fuel pumps and tanks and connect those with problem vehicles. The UK readers with the diesel units could also post their information. With this, maybe the group could really determine if these factors are really the root cause. I'd start off here but we're still driving an '04 Discovery II which by the way is nothing short of unbeliveable in the snow and glazed ice with OEM Goodyear tires. It makes our 4WD Suburban with snow tires seem like a Corvette without traction control in the snow. I've not had the opportunity to test out the LR3 in similar conditions. I hope these reports are bogus or we're going to have to reconsider what we thought would be an upgrade. Let's hear some real life experiences from seasoned drivers in their LR3's.
Quite honestly, I've looked at the lexus and think it's goddy and the third row is a joke. I much rather buy a MDX if had the choice between the two.
Also, glad to hear this vehicle drove great in the snow. And also glad you haven't had any problems yet. Oh, by the way everyone, I am a woman! Can you believe it...a woman this interested in cars? So take it easy guys...I'm just getting the hang of this. Right now I'm between the MDX and the LR3. Hope we can get this stalling thing under control, otherwise might have to regretably choose the MDX.
But when you touch the brake pedal even lightly the brake lights will illuminate. Also the vehicle will not slow suddenly if the engine stalls, it will be a gradual decrease.
With all of the vehicles that have had stalling issues in the past (and there have been many)there have been 0 recalls. Why do you think this is? It's because there have not been any accidents or injuries attributed to these issues.
I have had several vehicles that have stalled on me in the past, including a Honda that hated when it rained. I never had any diffculty pulling the vehicle off of the road safely and have had no close calls.
I've had more scares with people behind me trying to run a red light that I have stopped for.
The fuel tank issue is one that has been documented and it is easily diagnosed and repaired. This was not a build issue, it was a problem with the vendor mixing the tank assemblies before shipment to the line. The tanks are externally identical so the line workers would have no way to know the incorrect tank was being fitted. There has been a process put in place to rectify this issue, so it should not be a problem in the future.
"Amen. I can't believe this thing can't drive in snow. Somebody who had driven it in snow, please speak up!
"
As far as I know I'm the only one who has complain about it's handling in icy conditions. I found out, after the fact, that my tires were way over inflated by the dealership. This could have been the source of my problems. I'll let you know how it handles these conditions with the correct pressure, once I drive under them.
I've also experience the stalling issue, though it was only once. I will bringing my LR3 to the dealer this week. However even with these issues I have not regretted getting this car even once. Overall I love it and am constantly looking forward to driving it. I have zero regrets.
With all of the vehicles that have had stalling issues in the past (and there have been many)there have been 0 recalls.
Actually a bunch of Escapes and Tributes were recalled to reprogram something to fix a stalling problem. That's the one that came to immediately to my mind (ABC7), but a net search is reporting stalling recalls with the BMW Z4, Dodge Viper, Grand Cherokee, etc. Unless you meant just LR's?
It must be fun for the engineers to reproduce stuff like this.
I think I have mentioned the fuel pump issue a few times. Dont think you did Tincup & you work for LR!
From a design point of view I still cant see why LR bury the fuel pump in the gas tank.
Perhaps Lucas got involved?
I believe it was a build issue in that they did not pick up the vendor mistake & the line got them & installed them. Perhaps because the pump is buried in the tank!
5 weeks, 4500 miles. All mileage includes 2500 miles return trip to florida, ski trip, icy, snowy and hilly roads. Breaking-in was done meticulously. There were no major problems such as stalling whatsoever other than a few nuisances like cargo cover did no longer retract, coolant low, key related mirror seating settings. Noticed a subtle and brief high-pitch vibration from rear transfer case at low speed climbing uphill when it picks up and crosses 15mph mark.
The truck will receive its first service this week and the issues above will be looked into. I will post after the service.
Actually putting fuel pumps in fuel tanks is now an industry wide practice. The issue isn't with the pump itself though which is easily replaced, it is within the internal structure of the tank.Also Lucas is no longer in business and is not a supplier.
I haven't mentioned this issue as I did not want people going in to retailers with their own diagnosis of the problem. There are a few cases where this was not the cause and just swapping out the tank will not fix the problem.
As I stated before from all external appearances the tanks are identical, there was no way to know the incorrect tanks were mixed in with correct ones. It is a build issue, but it has nothing to do with the assembly process or the personnel who put the cars together.
"The issue isn't with the pump itself...it is within the internal structure of the tank."
What is it about the internal structure of the diesel fuel tank that would explain stalling? And don't they have a part number somewhere that can identify them?
Actually the only difference is an orifice in the internal structure that controls the pressure of the fuel. The diesel engines run a higher fuel pressure than the gasoline engines. I don't know why this can cause a stall as I am not an engineer, but it can. No, there were no numbers on the tanks themselves.
I'm dissapointed to hear that satelite radio was "not advised". My salesman says it would be available later this year as a dealership install!?! I mentioned having one professionally installed however, he warned against this saying the "fiber optic wiring" would prevent this. Is this true?
Can someone give me the voice activation cadence for making and playing notes (ie notepad memos)
Sorry Todd, I'm a yankee from Shreveport, and I've yet to look for a rover club. If you come across one let me know as well please. Let's see LR3... I'm guessing Old Metarie?
I just traded in my 2002 MDX for a 2005 MDX. The LR3 was the last vehicle on my list of alternative possibilities and the one I came closest to buying. My reasons for choosing the Acura were many and not really worth mentioning here for the sake of brevity.
My brother-in-law is in the market for a new SUV and he too is strongly considering the LR3 (thanks to much prompting by me). We test drove an SE this weekend (my second test drive in one) in freezing-rain conditions and everyone was duly impressed! My first of only two complaints was the noticeable vibration that I felt sitting in the second row seat while the engine was building revs quickly. This vibration was made more noticeable by the comments of the salesperson who was accompanying us when he insisted that this is "the smoothest running engine in it's class...". It clearly wasn't but it wasn't all that bad either and this brings me to my second complaint: The Land Rover sales staff. They (we dealt with a salesman and the sales manager) gave the distinct impression that it would be our priviledge to own one of these vehicles and that they were in very short supply because they were simply flying off the lot. There would be no negotiating; it's MSRP or the highway! Most of the several available models (all SEs) also had additional options, some of which my brother-in-law didn't want or need. They also mentioned a finance rate of 4.9% if we had "exemplary credit" and stated emphatically that no other dealer could beat that (Acura gave me 2.9% on the balance of my trade-in). The whole thing made me laugh! All this bluster for a vehicle whose brand is probably the least reliable in the industry??
Whatever...despite the attitude I still love the vehicle and I hope my brother-in-law pulls the trigger on it. I also hope it's the start of something new for the reputation of the brand. I, and many others, will surely be watching closely.
I appreciate the fact that someone from LR is reading this board.
As it was my LR3 that had 4 stalls in the first 2 weeks of ownership, I have several questions about your post.
You mentioned that there are a few cases where swapping out the tank will not fix the problem and that the external appearances of the tank are identical.
So, if they replace my tank:
1) how can they tell that my current tank is a diesel tank?
2) how can they tell that the tank they are replacing it with is a gasoline tank and not another diesel tank?
I really don't want to have the stalls continue after tank replacement.
There is a way to test the tanks and all replacement tanks have undergone this test. Also replacement tanks do come with part numbers on them as they are labeled to be able to stock them in warehouses and shipped weeks or months later. There have also been improved processes put in place at the vendor to prevent this happening in the future.
The check for the correct tank is to take a simple fuel pressure reading, a diesel tank has significantly higher pressure.
Thanks for providing detailed information to the board, it is appreciated.
Would you happen to have any updates on factory installed PTI availability? Originally, it was to begin line production about 90 days after lauch, which would be in the next few weeks.
New to the group and still waiting for delivery(promised 3 weeks ago). I TOTALLY agree with this approach to this forum. If and when I get my HSE, if and when it stalls, I will come to this forum, print a few comments with solutions (repairs) that have worked, take them to the dealer, get the problem fixed. Then continue to enjoy my LR3.
I will likely be pursuing an extended warranty through LR. My dealer has told me I can purchase one anytime during the initial warranty period (48mo/50K miles).
The prices I was quoted for the following extensions to the factory warranty are (purchased before 15mo/5K miles):
25K miles....................$1,050
50K miles....................$1,290
24mo/50K miles.........$1,950
36mo/50K miles.........$2,550
I'll likely get that largest extension to give me a total LR warranty of 84 mo and 100K miles.
Comparing the LR3 to the Disco II for reliability? Isn't this truck 100% new, from the ground up? On a brand new production line? Wasn't the development done totally under Ford's Premier Group? I remember the same comments being made about Jaguar back in the early 90s but my neighbors 2 recent Jags have worked flawlessly.
As far as the MDX, it's white bread and 5 year old styling. 1999 called and they want their styling back.
My reasons for choosing another MDX have to do with the fact that I have two small children and am currently building a new home. Practicality is my mantra these days. My 2002 MDX performed flawlessly for three years and 40,000 miles. It was NEVER in the shop for anything other than scheduled maintenance! That kind of reliability is what helped me decide to get another one after researching many other vehicles. As for the styling; while it may be five years old, it's still among the sharpest looking SUVs out there. Very few people would argue that fact. It's fast, gets better gas mileage than nearly every SUV of it's size, handles quite well (especially in rain/snow) and for $40,000 you can get one loaded with everything including the industry's best navigation system. The only thing it doesn't have is snob-appeal. At the end of the day it's still a Honda!
Neither my brother-in-law nor myself want the other to have the same vehicle and he's a dedicated European auto enthusiast (Bimmers and Benzes most of his life). Both of us know that the LR3 is kind of a gamble but it seems to be the sort of vehicle worth taking a chance on. I can't wait 'til he gets one (if and when he does) as I will have many chances to drive it! We will be calling other dealers in the area this week to look for an SE with the third row seat option only.
"The check for the correct tank is to take a simple fuel pressure reading, a diesel tank has significantly higher pressure."
I would think that this could be done without removing the tank from the vehicle. I also can't quite see how the tank itself and not the fuel pump is responsible for a higher fuel pressure.
The workshop documents I downloaded from Land Rover shows how incredible this car is in terms of its engineering - looks like a Boeing 737 tech manual (which I was leafing through last week).
The Ford comment is also right I think - my wife's Jaguar X-type has been very reliable: one dead headlight lightbulb is all the issues we have had with it so far in almost 20,000 km. And we are perfectionists.
I also can't quite see how the tank itself and not the fuel pump is responsible for a higher fuel pressure.
Ok, a simple example. Imagine that the outlet from your screen washer pump is connected to a garden hose. The pump works flat out but only a dribble comes out from the hose. When you connect the narrower tubing it's designed for, you load the pump and you get a nice high pressure output.
In other words, a pump doesn't produce pressure on its own, it needs to be restricted, which increases pressure and reduces volume. As tincup explained in #915:"Actually the only difference is an orifice in the internal structure that controls the pressure of the fuel."
You are correct, the tank does not have to be removed to test the pressure. If the pressure is correct then the tank does not have to be replaced. However the tank does have to be replaced to solve the problem if the pressure is too high as the internal structure is molded into the tank.
I bought my first MDX in late 2001, the XC90 didn't exist then and even if it did I would'nt have bought one simply because it's a Volvo and I don't like the idea of having to take it to the dealer every month to sort out some electrical problem.
I drove my SE in Vermont this past weekend. It snowed on Saturday night about 5-6 inches. I had it in the snow setting and for the most part felt confident and comfortable. It was the first time in snow and had no trouble with steep, snow covered driveways. The tires that came from the factory are Good Year wranglers.
Also, I noticed this some time ago. There is a pen light(looks xenon) which illuminates the center console when the headlights are on. It is overhead near the map lights. Has anyone else notice this? I have had mine since 11/15 and nothing major wrong yet.
The only problem is if anything goes wrong & usually according to "Murphys Law" it does, you have to take the whole thing apart. There are P/N's on the system by the way. As the TI man said we'd have people making a knock-off if we did not identify the components!
TI Automotive's complete fuel system features the supplier's "ship in a bottle" technology. Components such as the fuel pump, valves and fuel lines are all located on a carrier inside the fuel tank, giving improved protection from dust and water, as well as significantly lowering emissions.
Don't get me wrong - I love the "G"wagen (G500)- best "off-roader" available in my opinion, how-ever: LR3 is probably 98% as good with rear locker option. The "G" had the most uncomfortable drivers seat I ever experienced (I have 2 other MB's and love the seats) and it made continual noises that just drove me insane - the doors and the suspension just added to the seat noise (it creaked, groaned, popped, crackeled non-stop). There were also numerous electrical gremlins, and terrible front-end vibrations on-road (after bumps such as expansion joints). The "lockers" worked extremely well, but required too much forethought to use properly - the LR3 is a "no-brainer" - you just select and go...storage was also a problem with the G - there was just no place to put stuff.
The LR3 drives sooo nice, is sooo comfy, smooth, and uneventful to drive and just the neatest box on 4 wheels (I don't care for rounded-off, smooth, curvy "trucks" at all). Can't wait to get one...
Comments
PTI/Bluetooth was a "delayed availability" option -- it still isn't in the LR3 ordering system. There is no factory satellite radio option; it was never advertised to have one.
As you've noted in your posts, the LR3 is always stalling and can't drive in snow, along with many other faults.
It's hard to imagine why anyone would want one after knowing that. Isn't it strange how many people have bought them and claim to love them? I guess they just don't get it.
I really can't advise you to even think about buying one because, as your name suggests, you'd never be able to relax and enjoy the drive for worrying about which of the many problems were about to befall you next.
The best vehicle for you would be one with 100% reliability from day one. I can't remember which one that is at the moment, but I'll get back to you.
Best regards,
Mac24
P.S. You obviously missed the emoticon at the end of my last post to you, so here it is again:
;--)
It's a wink, as in "Lighten up, don't take all this too seriously!"
My bad.
:--)
:--)
Also, glad to hear this vehicle drove great in the snow. And also glad you haven't had any problems yet. Oh, by the way everyone, I am a woman! Can you believe it...a woman this interested in cars? So take it easy guys...I'm just getting the hang of this. Right now I'm between the MDX and the LR3. Hope we can get this stalling thing under control, otherwise might have to regretably choose the MDX.
With all of the vehicles that have had stalling issues in the past (and there have been many)there have been 0 recalls. Why do you think this is? It's because there have not been any accidents or injuries attributed to these issues.
I have had several vehicles that have stalled on me in the past, including a Honda that hated when it rained. I never had any diffculty pulling the vehicle off of the road safely and have had no close calls.
I've had more scares with people behind me trying to run a red light that I have stopped for.
"
As far as I know I'm the only one who has complain about it's handling in icy conditions. I found out, after the fact, that my tires were way over inflated by the dealership. This could have been the source of my problems. I'll let you know how it handles these conditions with the correct pressure, once I drive under them.
I've also experience the stalling issue, though it was only once. I will bringing my LR3 to the dealer this week. However even with these issues I have not regretted getting this car even once. Overall I love it and am constantly looking forward to driving it. I have zero regrets.
Actually a bunch of Escapes and Tributes were recalled to reprogram something to fix a stalling problem. That's the one that came to immediately to my mind (ABC7), but a net search is reporting stalling recalls with the BMW Z4, Dodge Viper, Grand Cherokee, etc. Unless you meant just LR's?
It must be fun for the engineers to reproduce stuff like this.
Steve, Host
From a design point of view I still cant see why LR bury the fuel pump in the gas tank.
Perhaps Lucas got involved?
I believe it was a build issue in that they did not pick up the vendor mistake & the line got them & installed them. Perhaps because the pump is buried in the tank!
The truck will receive its first service this week and the issues above will be looked into. I will post after the service.
I haven't mentioned this issue as I did not want people going in to retailers with their own diagnosis of the problem. There are a few cases where this was not the cause and just swapping out the tank will not fix the problem.
As I stated before from all external appearances the tanks are identical, there was no way to know the incorrect tanks were mixed in with correct ones. It is a build issue, but it has nothing to do with the assembly process or the personnel who put the cars together.
What is it about the internal structure of the diesel fuel tank that would explain stalling? And don't they have a part number somewhere that can identify them?
Can someone give me the voice activation cadence for making and playing notes (ie notepad memos)
My brother-in-law is in the market for a new SUV and he too is strongly considering the LR3 (thanks to much prompting by me). We test drove an SE this weekend (my second test drive in one) in freezing-rain conditions and everyone was duly impressed! My first of only two complaints was the noticeable vibration that I felt sitting in the second row seat while the engine was building revs quickly. This vibration was made more noticeable by the comments of the salesperson who was accompanying us when he insisted that this is "the smoothest running engine in it's class...". It clearly wasn't but it wasn't all that bad either and this brings me to my second complaint: The Land Rover sales staff. They (we dealt with a salesman and the sales manager) gave the distinct impression that it would be our priviledge to own one of these vehicles and that they were in very short supply because they were simply flying off the lot. There would be no negotiating; it's MSRP or the highway! Most of the several available models (all SEs) also had additional options, some of which my brother-in-law didn't want or need. They also mentioned a finance rate of 4.9% if we had "exemplary credit" and stated emphatically that no other dealer could beat that (Acura gave me 2.9% on the balance of my trade-in). The whole thing made me laugh! All this bluster for a vehicle whose brand is probably the least reliable in the industry??
Whatever...despite the attitude I still love the vehicle and I hope my brother-in-law pulls the trigger on it. I also hope it's the start of something new for the reputation of the brand. I, and many others, will surely be watching closely.
Also mine has bee working without any problems...I have 2500 mile on it.
I do have a question: Is an extended warranty offered directly by LR, and if so, what are the approx prices and coverage?
As it was my LR3 that had 4 stalls in the first 2 weeks of ownership, I have several questions about your post.
You mentioned that there are a few cases where swapping out the tank will not fix the problem and that the external appearances of the tank are identical.
So, if they replace my tank:
1) how can they tell that my current tank is a diesel tank?
2) how can they tell that the tank they are replacing it with is a gasoline tank and not another diesel tank?
I really don't want to have the stalls continue after tank replacement.
Thanks.
The check for the correct tank is to take a simple fuel pressure reading, a diesel tank has significantly higher pressure.
Thanks for providing detailed information to the board, it is appreciated.
Would you happen to have any updates on factory installed PTI availability? Originally, it was to begin line production about 90 days after lauch, which would be in the next few weeks.
I will likely be pursuing an extended warranty through LR. My dealer has told me I can purchase one anytime during the initial warranty period (48mo/50K miles).
The prices I was quoted for the following extensions to the factory warranty are (purchased before 15mo/5K miles):
25K miles....................$1,050
50K miles....................$1,290
24mo/50K miles.........$1,950
36mo/50K miles.........$2,550
I'll likely get that largest extension to give me a total LR warranty of 84 mo and 100K miles.
Good luck!
As far as the MDX, it's white bread and 5 year old styling. 1999 called and they want their styling back.
Neither my brother-in-law nor myself want the other to have the same vehicle and he's a dedicated European auto enthusiast (Bimmers and Benzes most of his life). Both of us know that the LR3 is kind of a gamble but it seems to be the sort of vehicle worth taking a chance on. I can't wait 'til he gets one (if and when he does) as I will have many chances to drive it! We will be calling other dealers in the area this week to look for an SE with the third row seat option only.
That was a good reply. Let's make a deal:
You may borrow my LR3 for important events at the Country Club
and
I will call you to pick me up on the side of the road if my truck's UK DNA ever surfaces.
:-)
Excellent! It's a deal.
I would think that this could be done without removing the tank from the vehicle. I also can't quite see how the tank itself and not the fuel pump is responsible for a higher fuel pressure.
The Ford comment is also right I think - my wife's Jaguar X-type has been very reliable: one dead headlight lightbulb is all the issues we have had with it so far in almost 20,000 km. And we are perfectionists.
Ok, a simple example. Imagine that the outlet from your screen washer pump is connected to a garden hose. The pump works flat out but only a dribble comes out from the hose. When you connect the narrower tubing it's designed for, you load the pump and you get a nice high pressure output.
In other words, a pump doesn't produce pressure on its own, it needs to be restricted, which increases pressure and reduces volume. As tincup explained in #915:"Actually the only difference is an orifice in the internal structure that controls the pressure of the fuel."
I bought my first MDX in late 2001, the XC90 didn't exist then and even if it did I would'nt have bought one simply because it's a Volvo and I don't like the idea of having to take it to the dealer every month to sort out some electrical problem.
Also, I noticed this some time ago. There is a pen light(looks xenon) which illuminates the center console when the headlights are on. It is overhead near the map lights. Has anyone else notice this? I have had mine since 11/15 and nothing major wrong yet.
I quote from below url!
http://europe.autonews.com/page.cms?pageId=370
The only problem is if anything goes wrong & usually according to "Murphys Law" it does, you have to take the whole thing apart. There are P/N's on the system by the way. As the TI man said we'd have people making a knock-off if we did not identify the components!
TI Automotive's complete fuel system features the supplier's "ship in a bottle" technology. Components such as the fuel pump, valves and fuel lines are all located on a carrier inside the fuel tank, giving improved protection from dust and water, as well as significantly lowering emissions.
http://www.autonews.com/files/ancutawaydiscovery31129.pdf
If this gets deleted I'll send it to Mr Willems to put on his very informative site!
The LR3 drives sooo nice, is sooo comfy, smooth, and uneventful to drive and just the neatest box on 4 wheels (I don't care for rounded-off, smooth, curvy "trucks" at all). Can't wait to get one...
Happy Rovering to you all...