Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I had a Honda Civic, 1990 that made it to 80k before needing clutch and other items. Prvevious car was 1983 Cavalier with 190k trouble free miles (still with original clutch!!). Try going to the DC Minivan board and reading thru the problems....people with will over 100k miles. You're perpetuating a myth!! With the right treatment, ANY car can make it 250k miles.
Interesting....only 2 stars??? Must have to do with all it's problems - poor gas mileage, brake problems, interior trim, power doors, AC condensers, 4 recalls and everything else you can find on these forums!!!
Odyssey gets 5 stars all around. The driver's door didn't "fly" open either. I saw the photo and it only opened a bit. No, it shouldn't have but a belted in passenger wouldn't have a problem.
I have no idea how JD Power rates anything.
Here is the website: http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/index.jsp
If you have already paid for your Odyssey, it is a little late to worry about the JD Power rating. You should have studied this report *before* buying the vehicle.
The 2005 Ody deserves a 2 star rating. Look at all the Quality problems this vehicle has been having. This is the worst new vehicle launch in Honda's history.
Last time I checked, all Honda dealers had a few Odysseys on their lots. :confuse:
Looked online and heres the breakdown of the 4 dealerships in Salt Lake City
2005 GRAND CARAVANS Available/I will call if you want LOL
Hinkley Dodge-9 Grand Caravans
Menlove Dodge- 5 Grand Caravans
Ken Garff- 1 Grand Caravan
Larry Miller- 4 Grand Caravans
Most are SE's but there are some out there!! Go get um HANS!!!
For sure ody'05 has problems! But I think they are minor. If DC or TW owner need to take comfort from that, let it be!
I know from my exp all vehicles have problems. The recalls or anything else that has been dicussed in these forums are minor. I own Toyota as well as Honda. Both of them have their own problems. Since ody 2005 is a new vehicle and there is a lot of talk and expectation about it. Some has to do with the latest technology adopted. Lot of technology lot of problems. Look at that site for other car/van ratings. I am sure people will have surprizes. That's why people do not check that site may be. I never heard of this site before.
anyway one more site to look at I guess! Add more to the confusion.... Welcome to the new way of buying car!
"J.D. Power and Associates does not provide "expert opinion." The firm provides "voice-of-the-customer" research based on actual survey responses from real consumers. Please keep in mind that high ratings do not necessarily mean that every consumer will have a positive experience with a particular product or service provider. It simply indicates that, on average, the product/service/company stands out when compared with other, similar products/services/companies."
Therefore, if the survey went to a group of people who were really unhappy, this could drag the ratings down a lot. And, who knows how many people they surveyed, and what geographical range, etc., etc., etc.
Therefore, I would probably not rely on their rating as much as I would like to rely on the many years long standing reliability of Honda. Granted, that no vehicle is perfect, and my next Honda may not be totally defect free, but the probability of having a mechanical problem of a Honda is smaller than some other (other than Toyota) maker. The other fact about JD Power ratings is also very disturbing (I don't know if it just plain mistake or intentional), which is they show that according to NHTSA, Toyota Sienna have a five start rating for frontal impact (driver), which is totally wrong, because NHTSA gave Toyota Sienna a four start rating on this, not a five star. Secondly, the picture of 2005 Honda Odyssey in their website is not even a 2005 model, it is more like a 2004 or something. (you can follow their link to New Vehicle Advisor and click on different vans once you select compact vans). So, I have already found two errors on JD Power's reports and web-site and now getting suspicious about their reports reliability!
To answer to some previous posts:
Dear jipster: I am not sure when this report was released for the 2005 Odyssey by JD Power, but you are correct that they did give 2004 a five star.
Dear isellhondas: I am not confusing the crash test ratings with JD Power rating (unless JD power did).
Dear minivanguy: I (and I am sure many others) have the same question as you do.
Here is one big ding to JD Power report (or rating, whatever you say), now that I am thinking more about it: they gave mechanical a four star, etc., and style a 2 star, right? Okay. But, if their research is totally based on "voice-of-the-customer" by actual survey responses from real consumers, then how can the style be rated only 2 star? Did all who responded to JD Power bought the vehicle who never liked the style to begin with? Would one buy something that looked a 2 star rating as far as style goes? I am really not believing their report!!!!
Not so called experts but real owners!
Wiley Honda had 8 Odysseys
Ken Garff had 7 Odysseys :sick:
...BUT
Ken Garff had 1 GC SE Plus
Ken Garff had ZERO T&C.
Doug Smith had ZERO T&C.
Doug Smith had ZERO Caravan/Grand Caravan
....( I did not check Larry H. Miller inventory for any brand and forgot all about Hinckley Dodge and Menlove Dodge since Menlove is usually known as Menlove Toyota )
Since there are 4 DC minivans sold for every Odyssey, the Odyssey inventory was much higher in the Salt Lake City area than that of DC minivans.
SLC...used to go there on business quite often. Market St. Fish Restaurant. Still there?
is your estimate based on the touring trip computer or are you calculating at fill-up?
that is a little concerning; i assume you drive in a lot of stop-n-go traffic?
Anyone getting the advertised mpg with the VCM or close to it?
I am very, very angry at this. The 28 mpg highway was a key reason why I bought this dog. Very unhappy with our purchase for a variety of reasons - road noise, engine noise, repeated trips to the dealer, and really bad gas mileage among them. Thanks.
My Accord 2000 barely gives 28-30 mpg in highway driving and it is only 155hp. You want a 255 hp large van to give 28 mpg? You must have known by now that the EPA estimates are unusually positive since it done at 55 m/h on cruise control with no AC. Do you drive like that? Or does anyone drive like the EPA driver? When the new methodology of EPA estimates are put in place, all vehicle mpg ratings will go down but they will look like real life numbers.
Tell me which comparable van (Sienna, T & C and Quest) gives 28 mpg on the highway consistently?
It is upto you if you want to believe or not believe the JP Power ratings. The JP Power rating simply reflects the view of the Ody owners.
You will agree that the 2005 Ody has had lots of quality problems. Some folks consider these problems to be minor but others who have spent their hard earned money expect better quality from a $30K vehicle.
Do let us know ultimately what you decide! Good Luck!
have a chevy venture with 8 seats (only reason to buy GM back then!!) but GM in its infinite marketing wisdom no longer makes any minivans with 8 seats so its either the Sienna , which has a proper 8 th seat, or the Ody with that weird little thing. Sitting in the dealership and in it for a few miles the kids don;t seem to mind but wondering what its really like for prolonged periods. Seems like it can't possibly be as good as a "proper" seat.
I have always been able to get better than EPA ratings by driving responsibly but Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and Mojave Desert of California have long stretches of open road.
On the other hand, EPA City ratings are not so easily achieved if driving in stop and go traffic. It is virtually impossible to have identical driving situations in city driving.
( I quickly deleted posting # 4214 when I realized it was in the wrong forum).
Why would ody owners rate the ody body styling 2*.
I wold think if you do not like the body styling you go buy something else that you like.
Something iffy there. Looks like not all ratings are given by ody owners. Some may be given out by some independent judges/companies who get paid by Toyota?
Anyway he has now offered us a 2006 Black Odyssey for the same price plus the difference in invoice between 2005-2006. He claims it should only be about $300.
Does this seem reasonable? Does anybody have any insight into what the invoice will be for the 2006? I can't seem to find anything on the internet about the 2006.
Thanks.
Precisely why I take their ratings with a large grain of salt.
Yes, they reflect the views of owners. Owners aren't biased? If a buyer goes into a Honda purchase with a higher expectation than a buyer going into a Ford purchase, then it is entirely possible that the Honda could get more 'negative' reviews even if there are fewer ACTUAL problems. Why? Expectations.
Given all the accolades the Ody received over the years, would you say that buyers of the redesigned 'new and improved' Ody would have had extremely high expectations? Given all the chest-beating in the various Ody forums prior to the '05 introduction, one would have gotten the impression from the various Ody fans that Honda was about to release a world-slayer minivan at least a full generation better than anything else on the planet. High expectations is an understatement.
And then when people hear some minor whistling around some exterior trim pieces (just using this as an example), suddenly they're ready to string Honda up.
"expect better quality from a $30K vehicle."
For perspective - most of the items which people have complained about are found on every trim level of the Ody, from the base LX all the way up to the Touring. So, would you expect better quality from a $25k vehicle? Would you expect better quality from a $25k vehicle with as much content as an Odyssey? Or do you think that the line workers say, "Whups, here comes a Touring. Make sure you get all the parts out of the 'good' bin. Oh, good, there's an LX behind it. We can sleep through that one."
Put it another way, check out all the complaints in the various BMW or MB "Problems and Solutions" threads. Seems as though some of the complaints found here can be found on vehicles costing more than $50k. In other words, you $30k isn't going to guarantee a perfect automobile. Why do owners expect it to?
You expect it because it's a Honda. And when you don't get, the vehicle gets slammed in a JD Powers survey. And that is why I don't take their survey results on face value.
My main expectation is that this vehicle should run for at least 200K with regular scheduled maintenance. It should not breakdown in the middle of nowhere and leave me stranded. I do not want to pay for expensive repairs at 60-100K on it. I do not care for residual value as I plan to keep it till it dies. I researched many vehicles and only Sienna and Odyssey fit my bill. I chose the Odyssey because it was less expensive.
I discovered 2 minor problems. Occasionally the red alarm light will blink even before the doors are closed and sometimes the car makes the “honking” alarm sound after pressing the remote twice but the red light does not come on. Once the power doors did not open with the remote and I had to start the vehicle and use the buttons on the dashboard. Since then it has worked well. If I had been on the JD survey I would have not minded these (since the Honda service department can take care of it with the 1st free oil change) and given it a very good rating. But another Honda owner might have gotten irritated and given it lower rating. So take JD initial rating with a grain of salt and keep Honda’s reputation for manufacturing long term quality vehicles in mind if you plan to purchase a minivan.
Wouldn't it be fun to see the shock on the face of a proud owner of a high performance car when the Odyssey leaves them in the dust?
With a lower powered minivan, there is no temptation to drag race or pass all other vehicles on the Freeway.
This sounds like a good deal, especially to get exactly what you want.
And when you also take into account the virtually rabid following the previous generation of Ody had, then I think making a statement about high expectations is valid.
Then there are those who seem to love it when Honda stumbles. If they have a recall over something, they make sure the world knows about it etc.
Still, not all do and it's mostly personal opinion. I for one don't put too many people on pedestals, they put their pants on the same way we all do. I also happen to have engineering degree....SO WHAT!!!!
And look at some of the track records, like Motor Trends "COY" award...they pick some really great losers!!!!
You expect it because it's a Honda. And when you don't get, the vehicle gets slammed in a JD Powers survey. And that is why I don't take their survey results on face value.
All new vehicles have defects. The important factor is the number and type of defects.
When I pay $30K for a vehicle, I do NOT expect:
-the vehicle to be recalled 2+ times within 6 months.
-the battery to lose charge or be defective after 2500 miles
-steering wheel vibration at 60 mph
-check engine light to go on after leaving the dealership
More importantly, I do not expect a :lemon:
If owners have *problems* with vehicles, those problems are reflected in the JD Power Initial Quality Survey. The survey does not reflect "expectations" but the number of defects in a new vehicle. Get it?
Truth is, the Ody is a great vehicle in a field of basically four (Sienna, Quest, T&C), IMO close to nearly as good. We're holding out for an '06 Touring mostly out of curiosity to see if minor QA problems, RF Tires, (depending on your engineering background read that as Run Flat, Radio Frequency, or Really Funky) are fixed and what other nits are resolved. It's interesting to see how JD and crew organize consumer feedback but it won't taint my buying decision nor will CR to a great extent or any collective set of individual 'expert' reviews. Take them, as mine as simply one persons opinion and find the vehicle you enjoy most.
-the vehicle to be recalled 2+ times within 6 months.
-the battery to lose charge or be defective after 2500 miles
-steering wheel vibration at 60 mph
-check engine light to go on after leaving the dealership"
At what price point DO you expect these things to happen? Are you saying that if you only spent $15k on a new car, you would EXPECT these things to happen?
Bottom line, these things shouldn't happen period. But they do. These things happen on cars costing $15k, they happen on cars costing $30k, and they happen on cars costing $100k. But because they happen relatively RARELY, when they DO happen, they are UNEXPECTED.
Surveys and defects: I'll give you an example of why expectations can skew the results. I've seen a few discussions in the Ody boards about a 'defective' alignment of the upper glove box door in the new vans. Apparently, when the upper glove box door is closed, it is possible to see through the gap between the upper door and the lower main door. It is particularly noticible when there is some white paper (napkins or such) in the upper glove box. People have complained about this as a 'defect'.
Is it a 'defect'? Or are all Odysseys that way? Perhaps the design is such that there simply is a gap between the two doors? Perhaps the engineers didn't what the possiblility of rattles arising from these two doors being jammed right up against one another. Yet, because this is an Odyssey, the owner's have this 'expectation' that there WON'T be a gap there.
If this same exact gap were found in a similar feature in a Ford or DCX van, would it be reported by the owners as a 'defect'? Or would these owners simply assume that was the way it was supposed to be?
THIS is how expectations can skew the results of an owner survey.
If you'll remember the Hummer H-2 had the worst JD Power score, and it was overwhelmingly due to owners reporting a glaring defect: poor gas mileage!! The H2 doesn't require an EPA sticker, and folks just couldn't understand why a 6500# vehicle with a 6.0L V8 was getting 10-12mpg!
Actually, petty as it may sound to you, I personally think that $30,000 is a pretty good cut off point at which I would expect that such annoying little details might well be avoided. If I were buying a bottom-end commuter car (as I did when I bought a year-old 2003 Taurus for $12,000 out the door!) I might be inclined to forgive such minor annoyances as the price for a cheap ride.
But, this isn't the bottom-end of minivans we are talking about here. It just seems to me that a little bit more class, well-thought-out design, fit, finish, and lack of problems is a reasonable request for your money.
As for the really expensive cars out there having trouble too, well, a lot of those complaints are direct results from trying to include every single cutting-edge accoutrement possible. And frequently, in European cars, it is exacerbated by trying to stick those features onto vehicles designed more for performance and less for us spoiled and lazy Americans who want our entire family room to accompany us and easily available on every trip we make.
No one expects to have those kind of problems within 6 months of buying a new car. But, if it happens to you it doesn't really matter if the problem is rare or unexpected...because it's your problem...and your the one that has to deal with it.
Absolutely. Why? Because these types of problems are RARE. They are rare in DCX vans, they are rare in Siennas, and they are rare in Odysseys. What gets me is the "this will be the first and last Honda I EVER buy" type of comments where the individual extrapolates (insinuates) that because their Odyssey has these issues, all Hondas are so afflicted.
Personally, I don't pay any attention to JD Powers Initial quality surveys. I don't care about some tiny paint blemish or exterior trim piece that is misaligned by 3 mm. Some may feel that these initial items are indicative of long-term quality. I don't. Just like I don't feel that day to day fluctuations in a particular stock are indicative of long term results. What I do care about is reliability results from long-term owners. What is the vehicle like 3-4-5 years down the road? "Initial Quality Surveys" don't necessarily reflect this.
The July issue of C&D was their 50th anniversary issue. They had lengthy backgrounds on all their current and past editors and writers. IIRC, most started in engineering or marketing in the auto industry and then moved into writing.
This link gives some specifics: http://www.hfmus.com/HachetteUSA/Page.asp?Site=CarDriver&Page=Editorial
IIRC, Patrick Bedard worked as an engineer for Chrysler before getting into auto racing and writing.
Over at Autobile, Jean Jennings worked in automotive design before writing as did Robert Cumberford and Phil Llewellin (RIP).
I'd have to say that if they weren't not engineers initially, they are enthusiasts and bring more of a performance and subjective seat of the pants slant to the job as opposed to the highly subjective methods of a Consumer Reports.