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Sarah, GM Customer Service
I had the module and coils tested, they are fine, and my mechanic changed the crank sensor yesterday, still same problem.
As I saod, it will turn over fine, and if I pump it I can smell gas, it just won't start. What else can I check before I turn a mechanic loose on a problem like this?
Also, as I said, no other problems, no codes or lights, no stalling, I think I could drive 1000 miles with no problem as long as I leave it on.
Furnaceman, to be honest with you I dont know what else it could be. I dont think its the starter or alternator. I would suggest taking it to either your mechanic or another one for a 2nd opinion. Also, try using Google and type in the search "starting issues with 1988 pontiac" and research some of the links it provides. You may find an answer there as well.
Wish I could've been more help. If I should hear anything I'll be sure to share.
Thanks for the Google idea, I suspect I will be finding another mechanic for actually a 3rd opinion.
can you provide a few details on what happened? What did your car do before it had the problem or what signs did it give? What does it do when you turn the key to start it? A few things to check would be the alternator, check your fuse panel under the hood and in the cabin of the car. Also check your fuel rail to make sure you are getting gas. You can do this by locating a small nozzle that has a cap that you would turn to take off, then you should see a small pin, press that pin down to see if fuel comes out. Make sure you do this with the key in the on position so that the fuel pump is on. Start by checking these few items 1st.
Here are a few things to check before you take your car out again. Check your antifreeze levels and your temp gauge when you are driving to make sure your car isnt overheating. Also, when you turn your key into the on position without starting it, turn down your radio and have the door closed and leave the key in that position for a moment to see if you hear the hum of the fuel pump. You should hear it hum consistently. Also, when is the last time you had a tuneup performed? Lastly, I had a similar problem with mine and it turned out to be the connectors to my fuel pump were going bad. You can access your fuel pump thru your trunk bed I believe. I dont think Pontiac changed that considering I have an 04 GTP. Pull back the liner, you'll see a metal plate with about 8 screws, take off the nuts and lift off the plate. You'll see the connectors running to the pump. Turn your key to the on position without starting it, then kinda move the wires with your hand just a bit to see if the pump cuts off or continues to hum. Lastly, in some cases it could be a crank and or cam sensor. Try checking the other items 1st, hopefully this can help you use a process of elimination.
Hope this helps.
the crank sensor.
Took research on my part to figure out the problem - no mechanic could figure it out..
Good luck.
Everyone I talk to says it's electrical, but it sounds exactly the same as the problem you had. Can you let me know what finally solved this issue for your grand prix?
Thanks Lisa.
Is the garage you're working with one of our GM dealerships? Just asking to see if there's anything we can look into! Let us know if we can be of any assistance.
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Right now I just leave it running with a spare key if I make short trips.
So far have changed ignition control and crank sensor, guess I have to save up money for the big diagnostic check that won't fix it anyway.
Seems like something overheats in the cooling system and has to cool completely before it starts again. Hoping in this cold climate it will at least be an easier problem in the winter.
Sorry......just hating this engine
It seems that there are a lot of Grand Prix cars, different years, that all have the same problem. If you can help, I'd like you to tell me what it could be, or what other people have found to be the problem, when this problem occurs.
Good luck.
They retested with car in a hot condition and did a pin to pin test of Crank Position to Ignition Control had crank signal. Then pin to pin Ignition Control to Power Control Module had crank signal also pin to pin back to the Ignition Control from Powertrain Contol Module and had ignition signal for coils to fire.
The Crank Position Sensor is behind the Harmonic Balancer in the engine block. When engine heats up the Crank Sesor is succeptible to the heat of engine and faults out and cause car to cut off.
Pontiac Customer service was deeply involved finding the issue and root cause.
I had the same issue with my 2007 Grand Prix and did all the pin to pin test to find out what the problem and root cause for me was the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) no signal from the CPS at all.
I first took the advice from what was done by other posters from other websites and changed the ICM with a aftermarket ICM (DURALAST) and that caused more issues because it would contantly over heat and cause the car to cutoff. The duralast ICM for these cars are not up to OEM Specs even though they say it is OEM Specs.
I replaced the CPS after the first Duralast ICM and put another duralast ICM on the car and car would cutoff and the duralast ICM would be super hot. Then I put back my origin GM ICM back in the car and have not had a problem with the car getting and cutting off.
You would not get any codes for a CPS or ICM being bad all other parts ie. MAF, MAP, IAF, EGR, Fuel Pump, Injectors, and O2 sensors will throw out codes. The Crank Position Sensor and Camshaft Position Sensor are the weak points in this Ignitions systems because of the nature and where they located in the engine block heat will cause these parts to fail in time and will cause car to cutoff when hot and not start again until cooled off. Fuel pumps will plain quit working and never start working again. You need fire and gas for a car to start. No gas pressure at fuel rail no start, No fire from Coils no start.
I had the same issue with my 2007 Grand Prix and did all the pin to pin test to find out what the problem and root cause for me was the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) no signal from the CPS at all.
I first took the advice from what was done by other posters from other websites and changed the ICM with a aftermarket ICM (DURALAST) and that caused more issues because it would contantly over heat and cause the car to cutoff. The duralast ICM for these cars are not up to OEM Specs even though they say it is OEM Specs.
I replaced the CPS after the first Duralast ICM and put another duralast ICM on the car and car would cutoff and the duralast ICM would be super hot. Then I put back my origin GM ICM back in the car and have not had a problem with the car getting and cutting off.
You would not get any codes for a CPS or ICM being bad all other parts ie. MAF, MAP, IAF, EGR, Fuel Pump, Injectors, and O2 sensors will throw out codes. The Crank Position Sensor and Camshaft Position Sensor are the weak points in this Ignitions systems because of the nature and where they located in the engine block heat will cause these parts to fail in time and will cause car to cutoff when hot and not start again until cooled off. Fuel pumps will plain quit working and never start working again. You need fire and gas for a car to start. No gas pressure at fuel rail no start, No fire from Coils no start.
Let us know if you were going to get this checked into at the dealership. We certainly understand if you were looking into different options as you're outside of warranties at this point, but just wanted to offer to follow up on any dealer visits you may make.
All the best,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
Ok, I have been working on this for a few weeks with no solution. I have a 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GT that is having starting issues that are getting worse. It takes several attempts and needs me to give her a lot of gas to get her to start. Once started, if she doesn't stall in the first 5-10 seconds, I am good to go...runs like a champ. Battery is new, starter new, alternator new, new intake gaskets (upper and lower), new upper manifold, new coolant tubes, and new valve cover gaskets. The problem started before all these new items were put in. I am guessing it is a sensor (MAP/MIP) or another one but they are way to expensive to "guess". A fuel issue? Any help you could give would be much appreciated.
Looks like you have done extensive work done but you don't mention anything about the spark plugs. That is usually a good place to start because it is cheap and easy and the sparks will tell if you have any issues with any cylinder or with the spark plug wires.
Your problem sounds like an old carburator choke problem, you sure they didn't slip in a carburator when all the work was done :-) Mass Air flow can be another suspect but it gives a code, are you getting any codes. Mass Airflow costs $130 - 180 non GM, (I got 2 re-manufactured ones, they both failed ended up getting a new one for a $30 more), it is a 5 minute job to replace it.
So let's say it is a "carburator choke problem" what am I looking at to solve the issue? If you can't tell I am an amatuer home mechanic. I enjoy working on the car but this pontiac is one thing after another. Thanks for all the help!
Good luck.
If you want for us to follow up on anything with your dealership, please contact us at socialmedia@gm.com with more details (including your name and contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN and mileage, and a summary of the situation).
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Thought I would post result since I didn't get a reply or help on the first post.
My question is this: since it's possible to deactivate the "content theft deterrent system" (which is, according to the owner's manual, the thing that actually cuts off power to the fuel pump and starter) without taking the car to a dealership, would this solve the problem?
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I have a 2001 grand prix that has 170000kms on it, always serviced and in good shape. It will stall randomly, whether I am stopped or going 50km. Some times it starts perfectly and others it has to be cranked over a couple times and then will shake like crazy, blow blue smoke out the mufflers, RPMs with rise and fall and then it quits. The oil and battery light comes on and thats it. After it stalls sometimes it starts right away, others can take 5-10 minutes. It has been to the GM dealer and hooked up to the computer, where they found nothing. The dealer is trying to tell me it is possible I blew a head gasket and coolant is now running into the motor and causing the smoke and for it to stall when the motor isnt hot enough to fire. Normally when your car is burning coolant it blows white smoke though. Said I need a new motor or to rebuild it. I feel like Im getting shafted, and will not fix it, as my car is not worth enough to spend the couple grand. I also see several related problems with CPS and ignition control modules and such. Has anyone has the same problem with the stalling and blue smoke
Thanks