Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Sandman6472 · January 2015

Ditto with the VW and Audi now...folks mention the Golf and A3 way down the line for some reason. But we're quite happy with them both so, all is good. Stopped a couple yesterday in their Audi drop top. a mid sized vehicle, and they both said they love it and it's been super reliable...was glad to hear that since I hear a bunch of folks tell me we'll definitely need extended warranties if we keep them both past the 3 and 4 year periods. Is this really true with the newer models of VW and Audi products? Have never gotten an extended warranty on any vehicle yet and not sure what direction to go in here...might do it for mine since I plan on keeping it longer than the wife is. She keeps saying after 4 years but I am thinking 8 for me depending on mileage and if I'm still around and not in that dealership in the sky. Besides the tire vibration issue, I love mine and really love hers. I finally get why BMW, MB and other luxury brand folks love theirs so much...driving is now so much more for me now over the American/Japanese/Korean vehicles we've always had...so much more!!! I actually look forward to driving them both now, and have only driven hers twice in the almost month we've had it...see no need sine they are so similar in the way they go. Prefer her leather seats though but love the smaller size of mine. But I think now I get it folks!!!

The Sandman

driver100 · January 2015

sandman_6472 said:
I finally get why BMW, MB and other luxury brand folks love theirs so much...driving is now so much more for me now over the American/Japanese/Korean vehicles we've always had...so much more!!! I actually look forward to driving them both now, and have only driven hers twice in the almost month we've had it...see no need sine they are so similar in the way they go. Prefer her leather seats though but love the smaller size of mine. But I think now I get it folks!!!

The Sandman

We love driving our 2012 A4 Sandman, but you probably missed my clutch story. Burned out clutch at 10k miles and after 2 years of driving. Audi originally wanted $2300, got it reduced to $1300 with a lot of hassle. We love driving the car, can't think of anything better in that range....but, we will see what the next 2 years under Warranty bring.

A friend has a 2008 Rabbit that he is ready to trade in. Loves driving the car, but he has had quite a few problems, won't be buying another one.

And then we have the 2013 Passat in Florida. Also a great driving car, but only 4000 miles on it in 2 years. I doubt I would get an extended on that one, can always trade it in if it acts up.

So, speaking for myself, I love VW/Audi's, but I really doubt I would own one without a warranty......and even under the warranty they didn't want to fix the clutch if they could slip out of it.

That's just my honest opinion.

qbrozen · January 2015

Not sure when it happened, but I notice carmax opened a store in King of Prussia, PA, about 45 miles from my office. Guess if I ever get the urge, I might bring them my Fit. But since the payment is so low, I really want to try to hang onto it, despite my wife's objections.

thebean · January 2015

isellhondas said:
I used to dabble a bit in some of the Prices Paid Forums but reading those was bad for my blood pressure. Even now, when I miss the car business, spending five minutes in one of those forums makes me smile. So many people scared to death they might pay five dollars more than someone else. It pains me to see what people will put themselves through for a lousy buck.

Then there are the self proclaimed "experts" that take on the role of knowing everything.

But the ones that amuse me the most are the ones who AFTER buying their new car come and ask "Did I get a good deal?"

Usually someone will come along and rain on their parade.

Then there are some who "get confused" about what they paid and state some impossible number that the others will frantically try to beat.

Mike did the right thing!

I know I'm late in weighing in on this post, but @isellhondas, I could not agree more. I know I left some money on the table when I bought my 2015 Accord in early December. But, I wanted to buy from a specific dealer who had great reviews on here and dealerrater, and they only had one of the particular models I wanted. I did several extensive test drives in the car and spent a lot of time going over it to be sure it had no obvious issues. Then, I dealt with one of the sales managers and told him to give me his very best price and I would tell him yes or no. No haggling, no back and forth, no stress, just the price. I had a target which I thought was fair and his price was within $300, and we made a deal. I believe some of the deals touted by folks on the Prices Paid forums are not real. They remind me of the letters to Penthouse Forum.

It's not worth it to me to do a deal which forces me to make a commitment on a car that I have not test driven several times. That is what the "experts" say you should do, with the "e-mail several dealers" method of buying. Plus, there are just some dealers that I do not want to deal with, no matter if they are lower in price. I felt very good about my deal, and I know I did all I could to make sure my car had no little issues (like rattles or vibrations, which several who bought new CRV's have complained about) when I drove it off the lot.

YMMV, of course. I'm happy with my car and my deal, even if I paid a bit more than some others. I know I paid less than a whole lot of people.

MrBean

isellhondas · January 2015

I make major purchases like you do. I won't deal with a store that pulls tricks or hires slimeballs even if I can "save" a few dollars. After I make the buy I don't look back in fear that someone else just may have paid less for the same item.

Oh, but for some PRICE is ALL they care about and they will put themselves through the wringer so afraid that they just might pay too much. Tough way to go through life in my opinion.

It sounds like you're happy and that's what really matters!

stickguy · January 2015

Q, they are building a new carmax closer to me in jersey. Right off rt. 42. Probably technically in williamstown. Can't wait to go browse! Not likely to buy. They always seem high, especially on stuff not really new.

stickguy · January 2015

Also makes sense to keep the fit. Can always use a spare. Or bad weather duty.

Besides, if you sell it, you are just going to replace it with something else.

abacomike · January 2015

isellhondas said:

I make major purchases like you do. I won't deal with a store that pulls tricks or hires slimeballs even if I can "save" a few dollars. After I make the buy I don't look back in fear that someone else just may have paid less for the same item. Oh, but for some PRICE is ALL they care about and they will put themselves through the wringer so afraid that they just might pay too much. Tough way to go through life in my opinion. It sounds like you're happy and that's what really matters!

I found when I was in the car business that my most satisfied customers were those who felt they were dealt with honestly and fairly and paid a fair price for the vehicle they selected. It may not have been the very lowest price, but it was fair and reasonable.

On the other hand, my most dissatisfied customers were those who sensed/felt they could have paid a hundred bucks less like their neighbor paid, but were treated honestly and fairly although they considered the price they paid more important than the service they received.

So I have to agree with your conclusions Isell.

oldfarmer50 · January 2015

jayrider said:

Michaell said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

Contributed a pretty penny to the tax coffers. And, I know of a number of people who have moved here specifically because of the legalization.
It would make me move away.
Why? I haven't noticed a big change this past year.

If anything, we're selling more pizza .... which is good for me, since I'm a part time delivery driver.
Of course you are selling more pizza. Where else can you get something that pushes all your taste buttons delivered to your door that lets you forget all your troubles while feeding your pie hole for $25.

just think how many lives he's saved keeping the munchie menace off the roads.

seriously though, a lot of folks in CO are learning the hard way that they can still lose their safety-sensitive jobs for smoking pot even though it's legal. the majority of bus drivers fired at my place flunked because they smoked days or weeks earlier not realizing how long it stsyed in your system.

abacomike · January 2015

oldfarmer50 said:

Contributed a pretty penny to the tax coffers. And, I know of a number of people who have moved here specifically because of the legalization.
It would make me move away.
Why? I haven't noticed a big change this past year. If anything, we're selling more pizza .... which is good for me, since I'm a part time delivery driver.
Of course you are selling more pizza. Where else can you get something that pushes all your taste buttons delivered to your door that lets you forget all your troubles while feeding your pie hole for $25.
just think how many lives he's saved keeping the munchie menace off the roads. seriously though, a lot of folks in CO are learning the hard way that they can still lose their safety-sensitive jobs for smoking pot even though it's legal. the majority of bus drivers fired at my place flunked because they smoked days or weeks earlier not realizing how long it stsyed in your system.

Opiates of any category remain in your blood system for over 30 days. When I had to take a drug test for my job, I was called into the HR office because a small amount of opiates were found in my urine and blood tests. When I brought the prescription in for HR to check along with a doctor's note saying he prescribed the codeine for back pain 2 months earlier, I was allowed to continue my employment.

oldfarmer50 · January 2015

sb55 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

sb55 said:
Don't come to Vermont to gas up. Article last week said the Northern VT is the highest in the continental US. It's about $2.79 for RUG here. Still about a $0.50 differential for PUG.
Our taxes are less than NY, but NY is less expensive.
Didn't it just get more expensive on jan. 1st? 5 states snuck a tax increase in as of new year. I think VT was the highest.
I heard that VT actually lowered it's gas tax a little, as they put on a "temporary" one on a few years ago.

Yeah, you're right. I must have confused it with Virginia. Maybe I was thinking of minimum wage increases.

oldfarmer50 · January 2015

qbrozen said:
Not sure when it happened, but I notice carmax opened a store in King of Prussia, PA, about 45 miles from my office. Guess if I ever get the urge, I might bring them my Fit. But since the payment is so low, I really want to try to hang onto it, despite my wife's objections.

Considering the resale on Hondas why would you ever trade when you could have fist fights on your lawn between buyers when you sold privately?

robr2 · January 2015

abacomike said:

Opiates of any category remain in your blood system for over 30 days. When I had to take a drug test for my job, I was called into the HR office because a small amount of opiates were found in my urine and blood tests. When I brought the prescription in for HR to check along with a doctor's note saying he prescribed the codeine for back pain 2 months earlier, I was allowed to continue my employment.

Marijuana isn't an opiate. Rather it's a cannabinoid. In any case, it does stay in your system for a long time.

I chuckled when the Olympics banned marijuana. It's not exactly a performance enhancing drug. I remember when Ross Rebagliati won snowboarding's first Olympic gold medal in and almost lost the medal when he tested positive. Duh - he's a mid 20's snowboarder. Of course he tested positive.

isellhondas · January 2015

abacomike said:

isellhondas said:

I make major purchases like you do. I won't deal with a store that pulls tricks or hires slimeballs even if I can "save" a few dollars. After I make the buy I don't look back in fear that someone else just may have paid less for the same item.

Oh, but for some PRICE is ALL they care about and they will put themselves through the wringer so afraid that they just might pay too much. Tough way to go through life in my opinion.

It sounds like you're happy and that's what really matters!

I found when I was in the car business that my most satisfied customers were those who felt they were dealt with honestly and fairly and paid a fair price for the vehicle they selected. It may not have been the very lowest price, but it was fair and reasonable.

On the other hand, my most dissatisfied customers were those who sensed/felt they could have paid a hundred bucks less like their neighbor paid, but were treated honestly and fairly although they considered the price they paid more important than the service they received.

So I have to agree with your conclusions Isell.

I totally agree! The ones that made the process miserable were never happy. I would see them years later in the Service Dept arguing about the price of something or demanding their long out of warranty cars be fixed for free. These people gave the worst surveys too.

I loved it when they would say.." The process took too long"

Why? Because of the three hour grind session they put me through!

abacomike · January 2015

@isellhondas‌ said:

"I loved it when they would say.." The process took too long"

Why? Because of the three hour grind session they put me through!"

Isell, there is nothing wrong with a "grind" here and there with a customer or two - it's a way that some people need to "feel" like they got a good deal in terms of price. For others, it's how they are treated. The faster a salesman sizes up their customer, the better and smoother the sales process will be.

If I had a customer that I knew was going to "grind" me for every last penny he could get off the car, I merely said, "...I know how important getting the best price for your new car is. Please be patient throughout this process and I promise you you'll be happy - all I ask for is patience and trust as I work the sales manager for you!"

On the other hand, when I had a customer who was not going to buy that day no matter what the price, I merely said, "...I realize that you have just started your buying process and that you just want to get an idea what the new car would cost you. I only ask that if I get the manager to bend over backwards on your trade and the discount off MSRP, that you give it serious consideration because the pricing might be so good you may not want to pass it up. You be the judge as I work my magic on him - OK?"

What i tried to do is put the customer at ease rather than "push" him or her into something they were not prepared to do. Other salesmen were amazed at how many "lookers and kickers" ended up buying cars from me on their first visit. Even my managers were surprised.

When I got into sales management, I tried to empart my knowledge and skills to the sales force - but as you know it was difficult to change the attitudes and modus operandi of the veterans but much easier to make great salesmen out of newby's. That's why I was well-liked - because I wanted my salesmen to make lots of money and they knew I cared that they succeeded.

venture · January 2015

When I buy a car I always remember what Mac said one time. Don't worry about the price of the new car. Most new cars only vary from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars between invoice and sticker. Unless it's a hot car, you can buy at invoice.

What you have to be concerned about is your trade since most people trade in their existing car. If you grind on the new car, you can lose a lot on your trade-in.

It's worked for me. It's not difficult.

ab348 · January 2015

robr2 said:

I chuckled when the Olympics banned marijuana. It's not exactly a performance enhancing drug. I remember when Ross Rebagliati won snowboarding's first Olympic gold medal in and almost lost the medal when he tested positive. Duh - he's a mid 20's snowboarder. Of course he tested positive.

The rules are the rules, and then he lied on top of breaking them. The idiot should have been stripped of the medal. Snowboarding really shouldn't be an Olympic sport anyway.

graphicguy · January 2015

I have felt this for many years. But, as much as dealerships believe they are dealing with grinders, as many or more dealerships grind their customers with "if we?.....will you?".....back and forth back and forth.

Even when I make my ONE OFFER, and tell them my offer is final, they still want to grind.

I could strike a deal wiht isellhondas in short order if he were still in the biz. That's why I only deal with dealerships and people I trust.

If you don't, you end up with low ball trades or unrealistic purchase prices for new cars.

abacomike · January 2015

graphicguy said:

I have felt this for many years. But, as much as dealerships believe they are dealing with grinders, as many or more dealerships grind their customers with "if we?.....will you?".....back and forth back and forth. Even when I make my ONE OFFER, and tell them my offer is final, they still want to grind. I could strike a deal wiht isellhondas in short order if he were still in the biz. That's why I only deal with dealerships and people I trust. If you don't, you end up with low ball trades or unrealistic purchase prices for new cars.

I agree, GG! A grind is a grind, whether dealer initiated or customer initiated. What can a dealer do when a customer offers $1500 under invoice for a new car and demands $1500 over what his trade is actually worth? Throw the customer out of the store or try to get the customer to at least move to a "dealer cost" offer?

The same is true when a dealer fights for every $100 of profit he can make on a car. The customer offers (trade included) a $1500 net profit Deal to a dealer and the dealer starts fighting the customer for a $2000 net profit deal. Both situations are sure less than desirable depending upon which side of the table you are sitting at.

When I bought this last car, I knew my car was worth $61000 on a trade and I was willing to pay invoice less $4000 in fleet incentives I had. I made one offer and it was accepted. There were variables obviously that caused me to wait 2 more months for the right car and, but my deal was not only honored on the 2nd car, but actually sweetened because of the issues involved.

In no way am I going to grind the dealer and in no way would I let the dealer grind me. We have a mutual understanding and respect for one another. Exactly what you expect when you buy a car.

But there are still dealers who make the process a grind and there are still customers who make their experiences a grind. That's life, but both of us want no part of that type of experience.

isellhondas · January 2015

abacomike said:
@isellhondas‌ said:

"I loved it when they would say.." The process took too long"

Why? Because of the three hour grind session they put me through!"

Isell, there is nothing wrong with a "grind" here and there with a customer or two - it's a way that some people need to "feel" like they got a good deal in terms of price. For others, it's how they are treated. The faster a salesman sizes up their customer, the better and smoother the sales process will be.

If I had a customer that I knew was going to "grind" me for every last penny he could get off the car, I merely said, "...I know how important getting the best price for your new car is. Please be patient throughout this process and I promise you you'll be happy - all I ask for is patience and trust as I work the sales manager for you!"

On the other hand, when I had a customer who was not going to buy that day no matter what the price, I merely said, "...I realize that you have just started your buying process and that you just want to get an idea what the new car would cost you. I only ask that if I get the manager to bend over backwards on your trade and the discount off MSRP, that you give it serious consideration because the pricing might be so good you may not want to pass it up. You be the judge as I work my magic on him - OK?"

What i tried to do is put the customer at ease rather than "push" him or her into something they were not prepared to do. Other salesmen were amazed at how many "lookers and kickers" ended up buying cars from me on their first visit. Even my managers were surprised.

When I got into sales management, I tried to empart my knowledge and skills to the sales force - but as you know it was difficult to change the attitudes and modus operandi of the veterans but much easier to make great salesmen out of newby's. That's why I was well-liked - because I wanted my salesmen to make lots of money and they knew I cared that they succeeded.

Our store never let a customer out with a number to shop.

I loved it when other stores did that. I once took a sale away from another store for less than 50.00. I actually felt bad knowing some salesperson had spent hours before caving in and throwing out a number. Our store was 120 miles from where the customer lived and the other store was located.

abacomike · January 2015

@isellhondas‌

I could probably buy a new car for the same money at two dealerships much closer to where I live - but I have developed such a close relationship with the one in Delray Beach that there is no way I would even attempt to negotiate a deal with anyone else.

Everyone at the dealership knows my first and last name - everyone - in service, parts and sales. Even the valets who check cars in for service or just a car wash. It's like the bar in "Cheers" - a home more than a place of business. That means more to me than getting a car for $100, $200, or even $500 less.

isellhondas · January 2015

graphicguy said:
I have felt this for many years. But, as much as dealerships believe they are dealing with grinders, as many or more dealerships grind their customers with "if we?.....will you?".....back and forth back and forth.

Even when I make my ONE OFFER, and tell them my offer is final, they still want to grind.

I could strike a deal wiht isellhondas in short order if he were still in the biz. That's why I only deal with dealerships and people I trust.

If you don't, you end up with low ball trades or unrealistic purchase prices for new cars.

Sometimes it was tempting to let a price shopper out on a "ball" knowing they would be spending countless hours driving from store to store in their zeal to do even better but I never did that. Other stores did and were sometimes rewarded. " Oh, you wanted an AUTOMATIC? gee, I was sure you wanted a five speed. Automatics are 1000.00 more!"

Sadly, this sometimes worked for the stores that lied. They customer would, at that point be exhausted from the process and they would cave and just reward the store that lowballed them with a sale.

Graphic, I once had a couple come in and make their ONE OFFER. They told me to come back with a yes or a no..PERIOD!

It would have been a nothing deal but we were heavy on inventory on that model so my SM said yes to the deal.

I came back, stuck out my hand only to get a terrified look from them.

Ah,,,ah,,,,well....we need to think about this....

" You told me that you would buy it and drive it home TODAY if I could get your deal"

" But....we just remembered something we had to do....but...but...we will be back"

So, I told them..." I might be able to do even better than that when you are COMMITTED to buy the car and drive it home.

About a week later they returned and once again made me a ONE OFFER at several hundred dollars less than their first offer.

I had my SM give me a pencil that was about 800.00 higher than the first offer he had accepted!

He pulled a "locate" and found that we had the ONLY color that they wanted in the district. He had already told several stores (where they had shopped) that they couldn't get that car on a trade.

In the end, I believe they ended up paying something like 300.00 more than the first offer that they had accepted.

I loved it when a "Smart Shopper" outsmarted themselves!

graphicguy · January 2015

Craig...that's terrible. If I give a number, I'm buying at that number, today, right now!

abacomike · January 2015

graphicguy said:

Craig...that's terrible. If I give a number, I'm buying at that number, today, right now!

I think what Craig is trying to communicate is that when a buyer "gets" his number "too quickly", it can often backfire - causing the buyer to think twice about buying "now" because he thinks he left money on the table. Thus the reason for "slowing" the process with an unknown customer.

karhill1 · January 2015

A real car buying story.

Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one.

Having been buying for a few decades, this is the first time I encountered a sales person who would not discuss price.

Later that day, I send dealer an email asking if this is the dealer's standard sales practice. Dealer sales manager contacts boyfriend to apologize and offers a price of about $19,000. I tell boyfriend to ask for $18,700, difference being the Maryland doc fee. Sales manager responds they cannot sell for less than $19,000. I note this price was consistent with TMV on that day.

Later that day, boyfriend and I do some research and conclude $19,000 is too high. We took invoice less incentive and less holdback plus a three percent profit. We then contact some other Toyota dealers and learn they will sell for a bit under $18,000, including doc, for the same trim and color, same MSRP.

There must be a hidden dealer incentive as we found two other Toyota dealers with similar pricing. One was a sister store of the original dealer, located twenty miles away.

Next morning boyfriend calls original dealer to inform him of the better deal. Original dealer quickly matches deal. Boyfriend buys from original dealer due to location. For obvious reasons, I would not have awarded original dealer with the sale.

Just one example of why research is essential and why dealers cannot always be trusted.

abacomike · January 2015

karhill1 said:

A real car buying story. Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one. Having been buying for a few decades, this is the first time I encountered a sales person who would not discuss price. Later that day, I send dealer an email asking if this is the dealer's standard sales practice. Dealer sales manager contacts boyfriend to apologize and offers a price of about $19,000. I tell boyfriend to ask for $18,700, difference being the Maryland doc fee. Sales manager responds they cannot sell for less than $19,000. I note this price was consistent with TMV on that day. Later that day, boyfriend and I do some research and conclude $19,000 is too high. We took invoice less incentive and less holdback plus a three percent profit. We then contact some other Toyota dealers and learn they will sell for a bit under $18,000, including doc, for the same trim and color, same MSRP. There must be a hidden dealer incentive as we found two other Toyota dealers with similar pricing. One was a sister store of the original dealer, located twenty miles away. Next morning boyfriend calls original dealer to inform him of the better deal. Original dealer quickly matches deal. Boyfriend buys from original dealer due to location. For obvious reasons, I would not have awarded original dealer with the sale. Just one example of why research is essential and why dealers cannot always be trusted.

Great example of why you shop and why Edmunds is essential to use to gather research data on a car you want to buy!!!

ab348 · January 2015

karhill1 said:
A real car buying story.

Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one.

Having been buying for a few decades, this is the first time I encountered a sales person who would not discuss price.

I had that exact experience once, way back in 1990, at the local Honda dealer. This is when Hondas were in short supply and high demand here, and they were often sold off a wait list. In this case it was a new Accord coupe, not in particularly short supply but in demand. I test drove it, liked it, and was going to buy, cash deal with no trade. I could not get them to give me a price without a commitment to buy first. I responded "that depends on the price" and they responded (in so many words) "too bad". I walked away and bought a GTI.

venture · January 2015

Great example of why you shop and why Edmunds is essential to use to gather research data on a car you want to buy!!!

You said a mouthful my friend.

We are probably in the minority here on this board. We know the price of the car we are looking at as well as the value of our trade. I suspect many people don't have a clue.

abacomike · January 2015

venture said:

Great example of why you shop and why Edmunds is essential to use to gather research data on a car you want to buy!!! You said a mouthful my friend. We are probably in the minority here on this board. We know the price of the car we are looking at as well as the value of our trade. I suspect many people don't have a clue.

The regulars on this board know the right way to buy a car by using Edmunds and its data as well as consultant resources for pricing as well as trade values.

It's the lurkers and readers of this board that learn from our experiences.

roadburner · January 2015

I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?

driver100 · January 2015

roadburner said:
I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?

That is so true RB. When I was looking for a Civic/Fit for my IT friend I called dealer A and they gave me all the numbers, including their discount and a Honda discount.
I went to Dealer Bs website and they listed the cars they had in inventory, with a "call now for pricing" where the price should be.

I tried "Live Chat" and said I wanted the price for one of the cars shown on their site page. She asked for my name, and phone number so a salesman could get back to me. I said I just wanted to know how much a particular car would cost. I gave her a gmail address that doesn't have my name and I never got an email back from a salesman.....as promised. Is that the kind of dealer I would want to buy from? It would be better not to have a site like that, just aggravated me.

imidazol97 · January 2015

karhill1 said:

Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one.

I had a dealer back in the 80s who wouldn't evaluate my trade-in without a signed order to purchase.
I had already bought a new car at that store 3 years earlier and was clearly of age. The store had changed ownership since I bought first time. (Behler Oldsmobile--Cincinnati)

I walked out. Shopped. Salesman had the nerve to call me at work 3 days later. I told him I bought a car the night before. What the ???? did he think I was there to do Monday evening when he wouldn't evaluate my trade (77 Oldsmobile.).

venture · January 2015

imidazol97 said:

karhill1 said:

Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one.
I had a dealer back in the 80s who wouldn't evaluate my trade-in without a signed order to purchase.
I had already bought a new car at that store 3 years earlier and was clearly of age. The store had changed ownership since I bought first time. (Behler Oldsmobile--Cincinnati)

I walked out. Shopped Salesman had the nerve to call me at work 3 days later. I told him I bought a car the night before. What the ???? did he think I was there to do Monday evening when he wouldn't evaluate my trade (77 Oldsmobile.).

I wonder how many cars they don't sell, that they could have sold, with an attitude like that? Of course they will just dismiss it as someone who wasn't serious. I doubt very many drive their new car, that they bought somewhere else, back to show the offending dealer.

venture · January 2015

roadburner said:
I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?

Yeah. I've had that happen.

Strangely enough when I was looking at Fusions last February I sent an email to one of the local Ford dealers for a price on a few and they actually responded with a price less incentives. I was shocked! That's where I bought.

robr2 · January 2015

ab348 said:

robr2 said:

I chuckled when the Olympics banned marijuana. It's not exactly a performance enhancing drug. I remember when Ross Rebagliati won snowboarding's first Olympic gold medal in and almost lost the medal when he tested positive. Duh - he's a mid 20's snowboarder. Of course he tested positive.
The rules are the rules, and then he lied on top of breaking them. The idiot should have been stripped of the medal. Snowboarding really shouldn't be an Olympic sport anyway.

Why shouldn't snow boarding be an Olympic sport? It's a sport that is prevalent world wide. Without snowboarding in the early 90's, the ski industry would have become an elite activity. Snowboarders make up a third of all ski/snowboard participants. Snowboarders spend more days on the slopes than skiiers. Around 10 years ago the ski companies finally decided to appropriate some of the rebel image of snowboarding and updated technology with double tip skis and fat skis.

imidazol97 · January 2015

venture said:
Strangely enough when I was looking at Fusions last February I sent an email to one of the local Ford dealers for a price on a few and they actually responded with a price less incentives. I was shocked! That's where I bought.

There's nothing like a straightforward, honest dealer. When shopping for a Buick in 1985 I found the best store and the salesman was very clear throughout negotiations. Got home and had a phone call an hour later. Turned out it was the salesman. I was thinking about what kind of problem was going to come up needing a higher price.

However, He had found that there was an option package for the car where by upgrading there was no cost but we got an upgraded quality radio with AM stereo. He was getting oral permission to change that on the order.

This store's philosophy was no down payment for ordering the car unless you were ordering a purple one with a 7-speed manual and wooden wheels. They dealt on handshakes and honored their word. Three brothers owned it who had inherited from their parents. Two were sales and one was service manager. Things have changed there when the younger generation of family took over, but that's another story.

abacomike · January 2015

venture said:

Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one.
I had a dealer back in the 80s who wouldn't evaluate my trade-in without a signed order to purchase. I had already bought a new car at that store 3 years earlier and was clearly of age. The store had changed ownership since I bought first time. (Behler Oldsmobile--Cincinnati) I walked out. Shopped Salesman had the nerve to call me at work 3 days later. I told him I bought a car the night before. What the ???? did he think I was there to do Monday evening when he wouldn't evaluate my trade (77 Oldsmobile.).
I wonder how many cars they don't sell, that they could have sold, with an attitude like that? Of course they will just dismiss it as someone who wasn't serious. I doubt very many drive their new car, that they bought somewhere else, back to show the offending dealer.

I am one of those buyers who gets so infuriated with dealers and salesmen when they refuse to give me realistic numbers on a new car that I bring back a car I bought someplace else to that dealer to prove I was a buyer, not a shopper.

Back in 2006, I was in the market for a new 5 series BMW. I walked into the local dealer and showed the manager my business card (I was a sales manager at the time). I said I wanted a new BMW 530i and was looking to trade my 2004 Infiniti. He told me to shop the car and bring back my best OTD price. He wouldn't even appraise my car for trade.

I went to a Holman dealership 25 miles away. Got my price and trade value (within $200 of what I expected to pay) and bought the car right away. Drove back to the first dealer with my new car. Went into the manager's office and showed him my bill of sale. He said he could have beat the price by $300. I responded, "...but you didn't, did you?" I walked him out to my new car and told him I would rather drive 25 miles for servicing my new car than bring it back to his dealership for service.

A month or two later he called me to get a buy number on a car he was appraising (Infiniti of course). I told him to call the other Infiniti dealer 20 miles away - that I am not interested in anything he wants to sell me or my dealership.

The dealership I am talking about has one of the worst buyer ratings in Florida. I wonder why?

graphicguy · January 2015

imidazol97 said:

karhill1 said:

Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one.
I had a dealer back in the 80s who wouldn't evaluate my trade-in without a signed order to purchase.
I had already bought a new car at that store 3 years earlier and was clearly of age. The store had changed ownership since I bought first time. (Behler Oldsmobile--Cincinnati)

I walked out. Shopped. Salesman had the nerve to call me at work 3 days later. I told him I bought a car the night before. What the ???? did he think I was there to do Monday evening when he wouldn't evaluate my trade (77 Oldsmobile.).

That's happened to me in the past, but it's been quite a while.

My favorite was about 10 years ago. I was looking at an RX8, which had just been released. It was the first day they hit the dealerships. I knew I wasn't going to make a skinny deal on one, being it was the return of the revered Mazda RX series after a significant absence. But, I called a couple of dealers to set up a test drive appointment.

I show up, on time, at the first one. The sales person who I made the appointment with was literally "out to lunch". I waited around for about 20 minutes while the receptionist tried to track him down. Finally, I left.

The 2nd Mazda dealer, the furthest one from me, no less, said no test drives without a signed buyers agreement (@MSRP) and deposit. Knowing I could rescind both, I agreed, except I penciled in my own term stating if the test drive or car did not meet my approval, the offer was void and deposit would be returned. I game them a $500 CC deposit.

Off to take the test drive, which the sales person said could only be for about 5 minutes or thereabouts, on a pre-determined route. He mentioned that the sales manager gave the sales guys strict orders to stick to the route. As I quizzed him about the car (while running it to the 9K redline in every gear on his route), he really wasn't well versed about it other than the basics. He then said that the rotary engine was good because (and I kid you not) "the motor went round and round instead of up and down". He then let it slip he didn't know how to drive a manual transmission.

"Really? So, what happens if we go off your route? You could kick me out of the car, but then you wouldn't be able to get the car back to the dealership."

Guy was kind of a noobie, so I spared him the embarrassment and just looped his route about 3 times (technically sticking to his SM's orders). Got back to the dealership. Salesguy said I had to talk to his SM (more like the high pressure closer), who comes over stating all we had to do was complete the paperwork for the car. I explained I didn't like the color. He became somewhat arrogant telling me they didn't have the color I wanted, that the car was in high demand (true), and that he could have sold the car wight unseen while I was on the test drive (I wouldn't be so certain about that).

I told the SM, that he should probably sell the car to his ready buyer, then. I got up to leave, with him waving a buyers order at me and my CC receipt. He talked himself out of a sale with his attitude. I checked with my CC later that day. He had run the deposit, but I protested the charge and had it removed.

The last place had 3 RX8s that they had just pulled off the truck that a.m. Had no appointment, just walked in. Nice folks. Busy dealership. Sales guy approached me, mentioning he was with another customer but would help if I didn't mind him going back and forth between the two of us. No problem. Explained I was interested in the RX8. He said, "you and just about everyone else in the dealership right now". I told him I just came from his competition, showed him the previous deposit slip from the other dealership, explaining how interested I really was. That got his attention.

He asked why I was there if I had already purchased an RX8. Explained the situation, and before I knew it, we had dealer tags on the one I was interested in and we were off having a blast on the test drive (no pre-determined route this time, plus he knew quite a bit about the car. Got back to the dealership, made a stab at getting a skinny deal....no dice. I only got a cusrsory $250 off MSRP, after telling the SM I was a ready buyer, right now, not a tire kicker. But I did get $500 worth of accessories (a spoiler and some shiny trim pieces), thrown into the deal.

I picked up the car the following evening after PDI. Quirky cars but a blast to drive.

That same day, the arrogant dealer called me back wanting to know when I was coming to finish the paperwork. I asked what part of me telling them they didn't have what I wanted and leaving the dealership upset did they not understand? Wouldn't you know it, they tried to run my CC after I called the CC and told them not to accept any attempt from that dealership. CC company called to let me know they tried to run it, but denied the charge. They called a couple more times over the next week telling me my car was ready to be picked up. Not sure what point they were trying to make, but it wasn't good.

Mazda engineering didn't quite have the RX8s sorted out before they started producing them, unfortunately. Mine was fine, for the most part. Others had a world of problems, though...mainly with the seals and rampant flooding.

Funny, don't see many on the roads any more and they haven't been out of production that long (5-6 years?). That tells me Mazda was never able to get the car quite right....at least from a reliability standpoint. Great fun, though.

roadburner · January 2015

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:

karhill1 said:

Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one.
I had a dealer back in the 80s who wouldn't evaluate my trade-in without a signed order to purchase.
I had already bought a new car at that store 3 years earlier and was clearly of age. The store had changed ownership since I bought first time. (Behler Oldsmobile--Cincinnati)

I walked out. Shopped. Salesman had the nerve to call me at work 3 days later. I told him I bought a car the night before. What the ???? did he think I was there to do Monday evening when he wouldn't evaluate my trade (77 Oldsmobile.).

That's happened to me in the past, but it's been quite a while.

My favorite was about 10 years ago. I was looking at an RX8, which had just been released. It was the first day they hit the dealerships. I knew I wasn't going to make a skinny deal on one, being it was the return of the revered Mazda RX series after a significant absence. But, I called a couple of dealers to set up a test drive appointment.

I show up, on time, at the first one. The sales person who I made the appointment with was literally "out to lunch". I waited around for about 20 minutes while the receptionist tried to track him down. Finally, I left.

The 2nd Mazda dealer, the furthest one from me, no less, said no test drives without a signed buyers agreement (@MSRP) and deposit. Knowing I could rescind both, I agreed, except I penciled in my own term stating if the test drive or car did not meet my approval, the offer was void and deposit would be returned. I game them a $500 CC deposit.

Off to take the test drive, which the sales person said could only be for about 5 minutes or thereabouts, on a pre-determined route. He mentioned that the sales manager gave the sales guys strict orders to stick to the route. As I quizzed him about the car (while running it to the 9K redline in every gear on his route), he really wasn't well versed about it other than the basics. He then said that the rotary engine was good because (and I kid you not) "the motor went round and round instead of up and down". He then let it slip he didn't know how to drive a manual transmission.

"Really? So, what happens if we go off your route? You could kick me out of the car, but then you wouldn't be able to get the car back to the dealership."

Guy was kind of a noobie, so I spared him the embarrassment and just looped his route about 3 times (technically sticking to his SM's orders). Got back to the dealership. Salesguy said I had to talk to his SM (more like the high pressure closer), who comes over stating all we had to do was complete the paperwork for the car. I explained I didn't like the color. He became somewhat arrogant telling me they didn't have the color I wanted, that the car was in high demand (true), and that he could have sold the car wight unseen while I was on the test drive (I wouldn't be so certain about that).

I told the SM, that he should probably sell the car to his ready buyer, then. I got up to leave, with him waving a buyers order at me and my CC receipt. He talked himself out of a sale with his attitude. I checked with my CC later that day. He had run the deposit, but I protested the charge and had it removed.

The last place had 3 RX8s that they had just pulled off the truck that a.m. Had no appointment, just walked in. Nice folks. Busy dealership. Sales guy approached me, mentioning he was with another customer but would help if I didn't mind him going back and forth between the two of us. No problem. Explained I was interested in the RX8. He said, "you and just about everyone else in the dealership right now". I told him I just came from his competition, showed him the previous deposit slip from the other dealership, explaining how interested I really was. That got his attention.

He asked why I was there if I had already purchased an RX8. Explained the situation, and before I knew it, we had dealer tags on the one I was interested in and we were off having a blast on the test drive (no pre-determined route this time, plus he knew quite a bit about the car. Got back to the dealership, made a stab at getting a skinny deal....no dice. I only got a cusrsory $250 off MSRP, after telling the SM I was a ready buyer, right now, not a tire kicker. But I did get $500 worth of accessories (a spoiler and some shiny trim pieces), thrown into the deal.

I picked up the car the following evening after PDI. Quirky cars but a blast to drive.

That same day, the arrogant dealer called me back wanting to know when I was coming to finish the paperwork. I asked what part of me telling them they didn't have what I wanted and leaving the dealership upset did they not understand? Wouldn't you know it, they tried to run my CC after I called the CC and told them not to accept any attempt from that dealership. CC company called to let me know they tried to run it, but denied the charge. They called a couple more times over the next week telling me my car was ready to be picked up. Not sure what point they were trying to make, but it wasn't good.

Mazda engineering didn't quite have the RX8s sorted out before they started producing them, unfortunately. Mine was fine, for the most part. Others had a world of problems, though...mainly with the seals and rampant flooding.

Funny, don't see many on the roads any more and they haven't been out of production that long (5-6 years?). That tells me Mazda was never able to get the car quite right....at least from a reliability standpoint. Great fun, though.

Wow, that just about mirrors my experience with Oxmoor(ons) Mazda when I was shopping for my Mazdaspeed 3. I refused to play the "no test drive without a buyer's order" two-step and ended up looking at Kings Mazda in Cinci. No hassle at all- the salesman offered a test drive before I even asked. When I decided to buy he just asked me for color and trim- and quickly located the exact car at a dealer in Northern Ohio. He had it flatbedded to Kings at no charge.

isellhondas · January 2015

Funny, I happened to see an RX-8 on the road just yesterday.

When S-2000's first came out, we really kept potential buyers on a very short leash and a lot of them didn't like it. Cars like that attract a lot of flakes and joyriders and some of these idiots can get themselves and their salesperson literally killed. When our store owner owned an Acura store this actually happened in an Integra. the salesperson survived barely but the customer died.

I avoided S-2000 customers. They seldom bought and they scared the stuffing out of a few of our sales staff.

As time went by, we relaxed the restrictions a bit but they still attracted mostly non-buyers.

I've owned two or three RX-7's and they are a blast as long as you know their weaknesses.

isellhondas · January 2015

roadburner said:
I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?

The trouble is, giving a customer a hard number to shop will almost always lose the sale.

Costco shoppers were a prime example of this. Using Costco's (strict) rules, we had to sit the customer down. Bring out the Costco book. Show them our invoice and give them the Costco price. Sometimes they would buy on the spot but often they would merrily jot the number down and be on their way.

So, I would say before they left.." Now, this is the Costco price...this is the MOST we can charge you...if you hear anything less, at least give us a chance to respond"

Sometimes they would but often when I called them to follow up in a couple of days I would learn they bought elsewhere. An "oh, you did?" call.

I don't miss the business but I do miss the great people and managers I worked with.

henryn · January 2015

isellhondas said:

roadburner said:
I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?
The trouble is, giving a customer a hard number to shop will almost always lose the sale.

Costco shoppers were a prime example of this. Using Costco's (strict) rules, we had to sit the customer down. Bring out the Costco book. Show them our invoice and give them the Costco price. Sometimes they would buy on the spot but often they would merrily jot the number down and be on their way.

So, I would say before they left.." Now, this is the Costco price...this is the MOST we can charge you...if you hear anything less, at least give us a chance to respond"

Sometimes they would but often when I called them to follow up in a couple of days I would learn they bought elsewhere. An "oh, you did?" call.

I don't miss the business but I do miss the great people and managers I worked with.

IsellHondas, I think you’re missing the point here. If you don’t want to “give a price”, then fine, don’t give the price. But do NOT put up a web site with a hot button that says “Click here for your special E-Price”. If that button does not give a price, then your web site is a lie. And I don’t like liars, and I don’t want to do business with liars. (No, not you, Isell, the dealers with the totally bogus web sites).

As to your reasoning for not giving a “hard number to shop”, the last two new vehicles that I purchased were bought from dealers who posted hard numbers on their web site. Nothing about “Click here for your special E-Price”, rather a firm price of $26,100 and a link to the PDF of the actual window sticker. (That was the Ford dealer). The one before that (Chevrolet) also had a hard price, which they eventually honored after some argument about the various incentives. But Chevy dealers don’t have a link to the PDF of the window sticker, I wish they would emulate Ford and start doing that.

imidazol97 · January 2015

henryn said:
But Chevy dealers don’t have a link to the PDF of the window sticker, I wish they would emulate Ford and start doing that.

Chevy and Buick dealers here have had links to the window stickers for a long time. Check other Chevy dealers in that area. IIRC the only one that did not have a link here was one of the high pressure places catering to the marginal credit crowd.

graphicguy · January 2015

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:

karhill1 said:

Daughter's boyfriend is buying a new Corolla SPlus, last week. Contacts our local Toyota store and visits. Test drives and asks for some pricing, per my advice. Salesman refuses to talk price unless he agrees to buy that day. Salesman refusal undoubtedly because guy is twenty-one.
I had a dealer back in the 80s who wouldn't evaluate my trade-in without a signed order to purchase.
I had already bought a new car at that store 3 years earlier and was clearly of age. The store had changed ownership since I bought first time. (Behler Oldsmobile--Cincinnati)

I walked out. Shopped. Salesman had the nerve to call me at work 3 days later. I told him I bought a car the night before. What the ???? did he think I was there to do Monday evening when he wouldn't evaluate my trade (77 Oldsmobile.).

That's happened to me in the past, but it's been quite a while.

My favorite was about 10 years ago. I was looking at an RX8, which had just been released. It was the first day they hit the dealerships. I knew I wasn't going to make a skinny deal on one, being it was the return of the revered Mazda RX series after a significant absence. But, I called a couple of dealers to set up a test drive appointment.

I show up, on time, at the first one. The sales person who I made the appointment with was literally "out to lunch". I waited around for about 20 minutes while the receptionist tried to track him down. Finally, I left.

The 2nd Mazda dealer, the furthest one from me, no less, said no test drives without a signed buyers agreement (@MSRP) and deposit. Knowing I could rescind both, I agreed, except I penciled in my own term stating if the test drive or car did not meet my approval, the offer was void and deposit would be returned. I game them a $500 CC deposit.

Off to take the test drive, which the sales person said could only be for about 5 minutes or thereabouts, on a pre-determined route. He mentioned that the sales manager gave the sales guys strict orders to stick to the route. As I quizzed him about the car (while running it to the 9K redline in every gear on his route), he really wasn't well versed about it other than the basics. He then said that the rotary engine was good because (and I kid you not) "the motor went round and round instead of up and down". He then let it slip he didn't know how to drive a manual transmission.

"Really? So, what happens if we go off your route? You could kick me out of the car, but then you wouldn't be able to get the car back to the dealership."

Guy was kind of a noobie, so I spared him the embarrassment and just looped his route about 3 times (technically sticking to his SM's orders). Got back to the dealership. Salesguy said I had to talk to his SM (more like the high pressure closer), who comes over stating all we had to do was complete the paperwork for the car. I explained I didn't like the color. He became somewhat arrogant telling me they didn't have the color I wanted, that the car was in high demand (true), and that he could have sold the car wight unseen while I was on the test drive (I wouldn't be so certain about that).

I told the SM, that he should probably sell the car to his ready buyer, then. I got up to leave, with him waving a buyers order at me and my CC receipt. He talked himself out of a sale with his attitude. I checked with my CC later that day. He had run the deposit, but I protested the charge and had it removed.

The last place had 3 RX8s that they had just pulled off the truck that a.m. Had no appointment, just walked in. Nice folks. Busy dealership. Sales guy approached me, mentioning he was with another customer but would help if I didn't mind him going back and forth between the two of us. No problem. Explained I was interested in the RX8. He said, "you and just about everyone else in the dealership right now". I told him I just came from his competition, showed him the previous deposit slip from the other dealership, explaining how interested I really was. That got his attention.

He asked why I was there if I had already purchased an RX8. Explained the situation, and before I knew it, we had dealer tags on the one I was interested in and we were off having a blast on the test drive (no pre-determined route this time, plus he knew quite a bit about the car. Got back to the dealership, made a stab at getting a skinny deal....no dice. I only got a cusrsory $250 off MSRP, after telling the SM I was a ready buyer, right now, not a tire kicker. But I did get $500 worth of accessories (a spoiler and some shiny trim pieces), thrown into the deal.

I picked up the car the following evening after PDI. Quirky cars but a blast to drive.

That same day, the arrogant dealer called me back wanting to know when I was coming to finish the paperwork. I asked what part of me telling them they didn't have what I wanted and leaving the dealership upset did they not understand? Wouldn't you know it, they tried to run my CC after I called the CC and told them not to accept any attempt from that dealership. CC company called to let me know they tried to run it, but denied the charge. They called a couple more times over the next week telling me my car was ready to be picked up. Not sure what point they were trying to make, but it wasn't good.

Mazda engineering didn't quite have the RX8s sorted out before they started producing them, unfortunately. Mine was fine, for the most part. Others had a world of problems, though...mainly with the seals and rampant flooding.

Funny, don't see many on the roads any more and they haven't been out of production that long (5-6 years?). That tells me Mazda was never able to get the car quite right....at least from a reliability standpoint. Great fun, though.

Wow, that just about mirrors my experience with Oxmoor(ons) Mazda when I was shopping for my Mazdaspeed 3. I refused to play the "no test drive without a buyer's order" two-step and ended up looking at Kings Mazda in Cinci. No hassle at all- the salesman offered a test drive before I even asked. When I decided to buy he just asked me for color and trim- and quickly located the exact car at a dealer in Northern Ohio. He had it flatbedded to Kings at no charge.

RB...that's who I bought the RX8 from....Kings Mazda. Straight up and honest people to deal with. Wyler is the one who (once again) was arrogant and difficult to work with. I went to Sweeney Mazda (who is also my BMW dealer), except they didn't get their initial shipment in (or so they said). And, the sales guy skipped on my appt to go to lunch.

I think I had the first RX8 in the city, probably the state, maybe within a 3 state region.

Craig, I could see you getting your fair share of joy riders on something like an S2000. Frankly, that was on my shopping list (along with the then new 350Z). I sort of wished I would have bought the S2000 instead. Fun, fun drive...true convertible. I let the "4 seat" concept sway my thinking, although I don't think I used the RX8's back seat for anything but storage...never passengers. Those have something of a cult following even today. I think they were fairly bulletproof, too.

stever · January 2015

If you got a great lease deal in 2014, a reporter wants to talk with you. Please email PR@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, January 7, 2015, and include your daytime contact info and the make and model you leased.

isellhondas · January 2015

henryn said:

isellhondas said:

roadburner said:
I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?
The trouble is, giving a customer a hard number to shop will almost always lose the sale.

Costco shoppers were a prime example of this. Using Costco's (strict) rules, we had to sit the customer down. Bring out the Costco book. Show them our invoice and give them the Costco price. Sometimes they would buy on the spot but often they would merrily jot the number down and be on their way.

So, I would say before they left.." Now, this is the Costco price...this is the MOST we can charge you...if you hear anything less, at least give us a chance to respond"

Sometimes they would but often when I called them to follow up in a couple of days I would learn they bought elsewhere. An "oh, you did?" call.

I don't miss the business but I do miss the great people and managers I worked with.

IsellHondas, I think you’re missing the point here. If you don’t want to “give a price”, then fine, don’t give the price. But do NOT put up a web site with a hot button that says “Click here for your special E-Price”. If that button does not give a price, then your web site is a lie. And I don’t like liars, and I don’t want to do business with liars. (No, not you, Isell, the dealers with the totally bogus web sites).

As to your reasoning for not giving a “hard number to shop”, the last two new vehicles that I purchased were bought from dealers who posted hard numbers on their web site. Nothing about “Click here for your special E-Price”, rather a firm price of $26,100 and a link to the PDF of the actual window sticker. (That was the Ford dealer). The one before that (Chevrolet) also had a hard price, which they eventually honored after some argument about the various incentives. But Chevy dealers don’t have a link to the PDF of the window sticker, I wish they would emulate Ford and start doing that.

Nope, I'm not missing the point.

I agree, if the website says to click for a hard number then they should provide one.

The point I was trying to make is the fact that this business has become so cutthroat that in some areas the stores will do ANYTHING to snag a customer. They don't care about repeat and referral business nor do they care about survey results or Edmunds or Yelp reviews. They don't care, PERIOD!

Some marketplaces are totally RUINED like So, California. The markets have been ruined by manufacturers who crowd the market with too many stores. The markets have been ruined by cheap customers who think stores should give cars away and the market has been ruined by stores that use underhanded methods to get customers in the door!

I got very lucky. I worked for a decent family owned store that didn't use these methods.

roadburner · January 2015

henryn said:

isellhondas said:

roadburner said:
I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?
The trouble is, giving a customer a hard number to shop will almost always lose the sale.

Costco shoppers were a prime example of this. Using Costco's (strict) rules, we had to sit the customer down. Bring out the Costco book. Show them our invoice and give them the Costco price. Sometimes they would buy on the spot but often they would merrily jot the number down and be on their way.

So, I would say before they left.." Now, this is the Costco price...this is the MOST we can charge you...if you hear anything less, at least give us a chance to respond"

Sometimes they would but often when I called them to follow up in a couple of days I would learn they bought elsewhere. An "oh, you did?" call.

I don't miss the business but I do miss the great people and managers I worked with.

IsellHondas, I think you’re missing the point here. If you don’t want to “give a price”, then fine, don’t give the price. But do NOT put up a web site with a hot button that says “Click here for your special E-Price”. If that button does not give a price, then your web site is a lie. And I don’t like liars, and I don’t want to do business with liars. (No, not you, Isell, the dealers with the totally bogus web sites).

As to your reasoning for not giving a “hard number to shop”, the last two new vehicles that I purchased were bought from dealers who posted hard numbers on their web site. Nothing about “Click here for your special E-Price”, rather a firm price of $26,100 and a link to the PDF of the actual window sticker. (That was the Ford dealer). The one before that (Chevrolet) also had a hard price, which they eventually honored after some argument about the various incentives. But Chevy dealers don’t have a link to the PDF of the window sticker, I wish they would emulate Ford and start doing that.

Yeah, that's what makes me mad- Don't promise you will give me a "Special E Price!" when you have no intention of providing one.

isellhondas · January 2015

roadburner said:

henryn said:

isellhondas said:

roadburner said:
I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?
The trouble is, giving a customer a hard number to shop will almost always lose the sale.

Costco shoppers were a prime example of this. Using Costco's (strict) rules, we had to sit the customer down. Bring out the Costco book. Show them our invoice and give them the Costco price. Sometimes they would buy on the spot but often they would merrily jot the number down and be on their way.

So, I would say before they left.." Now, this is the Costco price...this is the MOST we can charge you...if you hear anything less, at least give us a chance to respond"

Sometimes they would but often when I called them to follow up in a couple of days I would learn they bought elsewhere. An "oh, you did?" call.

I don't miss the business but I do miss the great people and managers I worked with.

IsellHondas, I think you’re missing the point here. If you don’t want to “give a price”, then fine, don’t give the price. But do NOT put up a web site with a hot button that says “Click here for your special E-Price”. If that button does not give a price, then your web site is a lie. And I don’t like liars, and I don’t want to do business with liars. (No, not you, Isell, the dealers with the totally bogus web sites).

As to your reasoning for not giving a “hard number to shop”, the last two new vehicles that I purchased were bought from dealers who posted hard numbers on their web site. Nothing about “Click here for your special E-Price”, rather a firm price of $26,100 and a link to the PDF of the actual window sticker. (That was the Ford dealer). The one before that (Chevrolet) also had a hard price, which they eventually honored after some argument about the various incentives. But Chevy dealers don’t have a link to the PDF of the window sticker, I wish they would emulate Ford and start doing that.

Yeah, that's what makes me mad- Don't promise you will give me a "Special E Price!" when you have no intention of providing one.

I totally agree!

imidazol97 · January 2015

Today was a Grand Marquis/Crown Victoria day at Krogers. We have a chance of snow 1-5 inches overnight and my wife sent me to Krogers. I have not seen that many GMs and CVs in one place as with all the elderly people hurrying out after the snow possibility was raised from 1-3 to 3-6 inches.

There were several Cavaliers in good shape in that lot as well. Lots of Camrys.

People just stopped in the parking lanes to wait for a car to pull out somewhere so they could grab the parking place. I did not see any accidents amazingly. The cashier was laughing when I complained about the folks driving in the store the same as they did in the parking lot. She grew up in Florida. I mentioned sink holes, hurricanes and tornadoes. She likes the snow.

My wife owes me for getting her shopping list while she stayed home after her knee therapy session this morning.

Only good thing is the snow is to be heavier in the counties between Dayton and Cincinnati--sorry GG. :grin

graphicguy · January 2015

imid....snow headed straight for me. We froze a lot from the holidays....sauces, chicken, ham, soups, breads, I even freeze certain fruits and veggies. Plenty of canned goods, too.

So, no need to hunker down on the provisions front. Plenty of gas for the snow blower, too.

Wife mentioned last night that they hadn't used any snow days this year (she's a 2nd grade teacher). I told her that she was a bit premature in her proclamation that they may not use any of their snow days.

Just got a cord of wood for the fireplace Saturday.....she just started a new book. I have some home theater rewiring to do. We'll find ways to keep us occupied.

We're good to go!!!!!!

Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles