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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)
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I forgot about those. It's easy to forget the '57 had that feature I think, since the metal grille/trim wraps around right there.
The club magazine, probably twenty or more years ago, ran a feature article on the '56 sedans. At that time there was, I'm thinking, at least one or a couple guys who still had the ones they bought new, who wrote in. Anyway, more readers wrote in that those were the best cars they ever owned, than any other Stude model I can think of. I'm not a real big fan, generally. I could enjoy a '56 Commander two-door sedan or '57 Packard Country Sedan (station wagon).
In fact, my dealer friend, now that I think about it, told me he thought customers seemed happiest with their '56's and their '60 Larks (second model year).
In the early 70s we had a country property and my dad picked up a '65 Chevy as a farm truck. It was pretty beat - the box had likely rotted off, so it had a homebuilt wooden stake bed - with some rust in the cab corners, but otherwise it seemed pretty solid. Pea green, 3 on the tree, no power anything, straight 6. I learned to drive around the property with it. It seemed big but of course it was positively tiny compared to today's pickups.
The engine burned a lot of oil so my brother, who was into cars and good at mechanical stuff, volunteered to replace valve seals, rings, etc. It wasn't registered or insured, so we decided to have him drive it to his house one night on the 20 miles of 2-lane that would get it there with us riding shotgun in Dad's car right behind it in case anything went wrong, since we weren't too confident it could make the trip. It did fine, but I remember being behind it in the dark with just headlight illumination and it was firing a steady stream of red-hot carbon bits (I assume) out of the tailpipe. Each time one hit the asphalt it looked like someone threw a lit cigarette out of the truck and burst onto the road with a shower of sparks.
Those early '60s Ford pickups look good, but I see they still have a straight front axle. I think Twin I-beam came along in '66? I was surprised last week to see pictures locally of a traffic accident here where a newish Ford 4wd pickup was t-boned at an intersection and knocked on its side. One picture showed the undercarriage as it laid there and the front end was still Twin I-beam, to my surprise. Maybe all 4wd trucks use something similar, but I just expected something a bit more sophisticated nowadays.
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I found this pic online of the last Stude I owned, a '66 Daytona Sports Sedan. It has that feature. I only owned it a year. It was rock solid everywhere, even when you pulled carpets up and took the back seat out. I thought a 283 in a '66 would be a good Stude for a guy like me, not a mechanic, and thought the flanged rear axle was a benefit. But I just really wasn't all that crazy about the car like I was my '63 and '64 before it. An Aussie came a-courtin' and like my two before it, it ended up in Australia.
The paint job wasn't too great--had I had it restored, I'd have sent it back I think--and the two-door sedan has a lighter-gauge frame than other Studes and even though the Chevy V8 is lighter than the Stude V8, the way it is placed in the frame sometimes results in frame cracks around the front spring pockets in two-door sedans. I could tell this car, at 66K miles when I bought it, had been repaired there and on one side was the tiny beginning of another hairline crack there.
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?54011-Finally-PIX-Bill-Pressler-s-new-66-Daytona
On a side note, I did always like the flow-through-ventilation extractor vents on the rear of '66's, where the taillights had been on '64 and '65 models.
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andre, it occurred to me that I never answered your earlier question. On Chevy's website, for 2016 Impalas it shows a very dark green called "Green Envy". I seem to remember that a color called "Rainforest Green" was phased into '15 production, although when I look at '15 Impala info on that page it does not show that color. Since '15's are no longer being built, I wonder if that means there are actually no more "Rainforest Green" cars in dealer inventories, anywhere. I've never seen a single green current-model Impala in person. Frankly, I like the sound of 'Rainforest Green' better than 'Green Envy'--that sounds like a Mopar color from around 1970--good on a Challenger maybe but dopey on an Impala! LOL
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Bonneville-/221968247948?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33ae56ac8c:g:qBIAAOSw7FRWXRrE&item=221968247948
Maybe it will double like a Ferrari in a few years. Watched a recent chasing classic cars, and they showed a Ferrari (275 maybe? something from the 60s, and beautiful). Wayne said he sold that exact car, in same condition, in 2012 or so, and thought he broke the bank getting 895K at auction. Sold this year at auction for ~1.6 million. Someone did OK on that deal.
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Besides, there are auction databases that track '65 Pontiacs, so the general idea of the "market" is fairly well established. Not all collectors relish cars that have sat for years in dis-use. Many would prefer a rotisserie restoration over this car.
As for Ferraris, they don't just keep going up and up. In 1989-1990, some Ferrari "investors" lost 50% of their money in a snap of the fingers. Some Shelby and Mopars are worth less now than they were years ago.
When I first bought an old car, I used to thumb through the "Old Car Price Guide" which was monthly. I think it was monthly merely to sell issues.
I, and the other poster I think, merely mean that there can't possibly have been a selection of 1965 Bonneville Custom Safaris in this level of authenticity for sale in the past several years...or we'd have seen them advertised.
Besides, there is simply no way to judge a car from photos. I can tell you from personal experience that the difference between flattering photos and seeing the real car can be shocking. Anyone bidding this much for this car without seeing it is foolish IMO.
Regardless of all that, this is a Pontiac wagon, it's not a Ferrari, it's not a GTO, a 2D hardtop or a convertible. The niche is very small and the market forces are not very active on this type of car. Buyers are out there but they are few.
The market says $20K-$22K at best. Pay more if you love it, but don't expect to get that back anytime soon.
Buy what you like, that's the final say.
Kind of interesting how things have changed - something like this probably wouldn't sell at all today, not fancy enough.
Just sayin'.
I simply have not seen another '65 Bonneville wagon even a mile from that car's condition, and I doubt anyone on here has either....at least not since the late '60's.
as to the Pontiac, my assumption is whoever buys it plans to keep it, not flip it as an investment.
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I still see 'em tooling down the roads out there. Big Facebook group of owners too.
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2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Amazingly to me, there is a loaded '68 Bonneville wagon on eBay now, also bid to $27K. Personally, I don't care for the '68 as much as it was the era of 'energy absorbing' interiors. The car has zero documentation, but it is interesting. That Verdoro Green was popular and only Pontiac had it. Colors were usually shared across the divisions.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Bonneville-/321951404299?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4af5cc910b:g:gPAAAOSwYaFWckqN&item=321951404299
The eight-lug wheels are gorgeous I think. The flip side of that, I guess, is that's a big car in 1968 to be stopping with front drums! LOL
I have seen eight-lugs on a very deep burgundy '67 Executive Safari in shows in this area, but I don't remember seeing new wagons with eight-lugs. The '68 Pontiac wagon brochure (the "Old Car Manual Project" online is your friend!) does picture a full-size wagon with them.
My own achilles heel in regards to these types of "not a huge market" cars would be a 50's or 60's 4-door hardtop, or some of those big lovebarges of the 70's and early 80's, to where I'd probably be willing to pay more than one is really worth, if it was in nice shape. In fact, even among those big battlecruisers, my tastes tend to run against the herd. Usually buyers for those types of cars go for the models that in their day were the most expensive, prestigious, and loaded-up. But, in my case, I'd rather have a quad-headlight model '74-75 C-body Fury/Monaco, than a fully-loaded New Yorker or Imperial. Or a '77 Catalina, instead of a fully-loaded Caddy, Electra, etc.
Oh, as for brakes, my '69 Bonneville 4-door hardtop had disc brakes. It also had 15" wheels. My '67 Catalina convertible, at the time, had 14" wheels (currently has non-correct 15x7 Rally 2s on it). I tried to swap the wheels between the two, but the Catalina's 14" rims would not clear the disc brake setup on the Bonneville.
The Catalina's all-drum brakes actually do stop the car pretty quickly, so it would be good for a few panic stops, at least, before brake fade set in too bad I guess. But, a wagon would be a bit heavier than a convertible.
One little detail that bugs me about the Bonneville wagon is that it's on the shorter Catalina wheelbase, rather than the longer wheelbase of the other Bonneville models. I'm sure the car is still plenty big enough, but somehow putting it on the shorter wheelbase makes me think the car is getting the short end of the stick. Considering the low number produced though, it probably made sense to make it share the Catalina wheelbase. Plus, where Pontiac put the extra wheelbase in the other Bonnevilles was pretty useless anyway. It didn't give you any more room in the passenger cabin, but gave you a longer trunk, with the additional area actually ahead of rear axle hump. Considering the Bonneville also tacked a few inches onto the trunk in back of the axle anyway, that would have made for a long reach to get to the very front of the trunk area. On a wagon, that extra length would have come in handy, but again, on a low volume body style, it probably doesn't make sense to offer that much variety in sizes.
"Big" goes against my grain usually, but there are some things about mid-sixties big Pontiacs that I think are wonderful. A GTO, meh.
A white '63 Studebaker Lark Daytona Wagonaire sold on eBay (confirmed by the seller) for $28K a year or two ago. It was stunning, although was a restoration instead of an original car. I love Studebakers, but that this Pontiac wouldn't be bid to that is a bit of a head-scratcher to me. I guess there is never any logic to the 'classic' car market. Although, bids in the 27's for a wagon aren't anything to be sneezed at I guess, really!
For some reason, I'm reminded of a guy I know in our local Studebaker club, who had a black R2 GT Hawk, stunningly authentic, and now has a white '64 Avanti R2. We were both looking at a '57 Golden Hawk that had spotlights and every freaking accessory on it, as well as aftermarket fender skirts (ugh). He said to me, "That sure is all hillbillied up, isn't it?". That term seemed so appropriate, I use it now when I see a car with skirts, continental kit, spotlights, etc. LOL
You're right...the Bonneville wagon is no longer than a Catalina. Back then, I thought it was unusual that an Executive wagon had woodgrain outside, but the Bonneville didn't. In '70, they made the woodgrain optional on the Bonneville wagon. I guess without the woodgrain, there'd be no difference (and I mean none except the nameplate) between an Executive wagon and a Catalina with the Ventura option.
Probably yours for $20K---seems about market-correct. Probably more of these survived than wagons.
65 Pontiac Bonneville Survivor
The three deuces are nice, but this car doesn't have the power windows nor the power vent windows the wagon does.
Buying these low mileage original cars has its pluses and minuses. On the one hand you have the originality for bragging rights, but you don't want to drive it lest you add up the miles (and diminish the cachet), and if you need a new part, you have to hunt for NOS, as steward of the originality that you now are.
Personally, the idea of sitting in a beach chair at car shows is not very appealing. I'd rather be out on the road touring with my classic prize. If owners of $1 million dollar Ferraris can take them out on the track, then owners of old wagons can drive them around. There's a difference between rare and precious.
IMO, the 65 wagon is worth its bids, too. Not everyone's cup of tea, but good luck finding another with the same cosmetic condition, eye appeal, and originality.
But markets shift, both up and down. The 60s wagon market is definitely a teensy niche, but it's out there. Given that this very car seems to have had a very wide margin between two auctions (the first and the repeat), there's no reason to suggest the new result is the new market.
I still think bidding on a car like this without seeing it is crazy.