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2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-accord-specifications-features
8" Touch screen with AndroidAuto etc.: $1000 (works better than built-in navi)
Moonroof: $800
Blind spot monitoring and traffic cross-check: $800
Smart entry w walk away auto lock: $500
Heated mirrors: $300
Active shutter grill: $100
LED fog lights: $300
Driver side seatback pocket: $100
60/40 folding rear seat: $300
Heated seats: $400
12-way power driver's seat: $500
180 watt audio w XM/HD 8 speakers: $400
HondaLink: $200
Laminated side glass/other noise reduction: $400
Fancier alloy wheels: $200
Remote start: $300
Rear vents: $300
Seems to add up to c. $6k+ for me personally, making EX at msrp $27,470 worth it for me over the LX.
Here's some more info on the 2018 Accord....
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-honda-accord-press-kit-overview
"Driver Attention Monitor
New for the 2018 Accord, on highway and arterial roads the Driver Attention Monitor continually monitors and assesses driver behavior behind the wheel to help determine if the driver is becoming inattentive – and then if so, warn the driver to take a break. The system uses input from the Electric Power Steering (EPS) to measure both the frequency and severity of the driver's steering inputs to gauge their level of awareness with four gradients.
When the Driver Attention Monitor is activated, the driver is first alerted by a coffee cup icon and a 4-level bar graph that is displayed on the Driver Information Interface (DII) below the speedometer and tachometer. The bar graph indicates full attention when four white bar elements are illuminated. As the driver attention drops, fewer and fewer bars are illuminated. When the number of bars drops to two, a message inviting the driver to take a break is illuminated. If the driver continues driving and the graph drops to the lowest level of one bar, a beeper sounds and the steering wheel vibrates, prompting the driver to pay closer attention or take a rest break. (See the Interior section for more information.)"
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-honda-accord-press-kit-safety-and-driver-assistive?page=2
To me, certain features are required and missing them is an auto fail, regardless of price. LX is in that category. But the EX is the sweet spot. Wonder how much $ the hybrid will be when it comes out?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"The Accord's all-new front bucket seats are designed to provide comfortable support for a wide range of body types, along with secure lateral support for cornering. For greater shoulder support, the seatbacks are 4.9 inches taller than in the previous-generation Accord. New high-accuracy urethane padding is used with varying density, depending on the location on the seat. More lightly loaded areas of the seat like the thigh support area have lower density foam, while the hip area has high rebound resistance urethane for a more stable, secure feel. The driver's seat in the LX is manually adjustable for fore-and-aft, seatback angle and height adjustment. All other trims feature power-operated adjustments, along with four-way adjustable lumbar support, for a total of 12-way power adjustability....Heated front seats are standard in the Accord EX and above. Heating includes both the seat bottom cushions and front seatbacks. The new 3-level front seat heater controls are positioned within easy reach, just below the climate control system controls."
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-honda-accord-press-kit-interior?page=2
"Included on EX and above trims, the new Walk Away Door Lock feature automatically locks the Accord when the driver leaves the vehicle with the key fob. This hands-free locking capability adds everyday convenience that is especially useful when the driver has his or her hands full or is distracted. In typical use, when all doors are closed and the driver walks away, the Accord will automatically lock when the key holder’s distance from the vehicle exceeds 6.5 feet for two seconds or more, and when no other key is detected inside the vehicle. An audible buzzer sounds and the hazard lights flash to confirm that the vehicle has locked. The Walk Away Door Lock feature is programmable, and may be turned on or off as the driver prefers."
I do recall one negative to the 2015 I looked at was the seat back was slightly short, and hit my shoulders a funny way. But I probably made a mountain out of a molehill there.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
I like the feature. I don't know of anyone else doing it this way today. There could be times where you want to leave the vehicle unlocked when you walk away and you might not remember to disable it, but I think that would be rare.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
My wife thinks driving a Ferrari or Porsche 911 on a dry racetrack at 100 mph with an instructor in the passenger seat is orders of magnitude more dangerous than her driving 80 mph on a crowded interstate with head on traffic.
Truth is the vast majority of accidents happen at low speed.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Civic 35,452 +26%
Camry 34,732 +13%
Corolla 30,931 -1%
Accord 29,789 +9%
Malibu 23,989 +12%
Fusion 21,253 +3%
Sentra 19,128 +40%
So far this year, Civic sales total 284,380 while Camry sales are at 282,507.
The Altima seems to have dropped out of the top 20. Perhaps they've slowed down on selling them as rentals?
http://www.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
"It certainly is more good, even in categories where the last Accord seemed to be as good as a car needed to be. Body rigidity, for example, improves 27 percent (in torsion), according to Honda, going from bank-vault to Fort Knox solid."
Probably similar things are said about the Camry, etc.
Anyway, the 2003 Accord was more solid than the 2002, which I actually owned. And by 2008 Honda was using small quantities of advanced high strength steel in the Accord to make the ride more pleasant, but also to increase crash protection. In 2013, the amount of high grade steel was increased significantly. And for 2018, according to Honda....
"57 percent of the Accord body is high-strength steel. Super high-strength "hot stamped" steel comprises 29 percent of the body structure, more than double the amount used in the previous-generation Accord Sedan and the highest for any mass-produced Honda. This directly contributes to improved stiffness and reduced mass for the 2018 Accord unibody (see below). Selected use of high-performance adhesives in critical areas further contribute to the new unibody's stiffness, helping to reduce noise and vibration, while improving ride and handling. All of these structural improvements also help reduce mass, directly contributing to increased fuel efficiency."
http://hondanews.com/honda-automobiles/channels/accord/releases/2018-honda-accord-body-and-exterior
Some of the steel used now is up to 1500 Megapascals in strength, compared to 270 for regular steel.
Again, similar things are probably true about the Camry, but as far as I know Toyota doesn't release such precise technical and engineering details in their press releases. Just a guess, but I think this may be because Soichiro Honda was an engineer, while one of the founders of Toyota was a banker....
Anyway, what I don't quite understand, is that Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, Nissan, everyone is building their cars in more solid ways, and have more advanced safety equipment, and yet prices when adjusted for inflation seem to have fallen. I don't think anyone outside of a luxury maker has more "super high strength steel" than a Honda, but anyway, they all have more of it, and it's more expensive. Plus there are all the driver assist features, anti lock brakes, bluetooth, etc. Plus the cars are actually larger today.
But my 2002 Accord LX had an msrp of c. $19k., which adjusted for inflation would be $26k today. It was a really nice car, but bare bones car compared to a car today. And yet the 2018 Accord LX has a starting msrp of $24k.
I'm sure there are manufacturing efficiencies, etc., but I think part of it is that the market for midsize sedans is brutally competitive, and is also declining, which is holding down prices.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20171003/OEM02/171009909/ford-hackett-strategic-plan-wall-street
"He said the automaker would develop new vehicles faster, shift $7 billion in product-development funding from cars to more profitable light trucks....The automaker said that shift in spending on light-vehicle development would result in fewer car nameplates but did not provide specifics. It did not say it would exit any vehicle segments, but rather that it would continue in a more focused, reduced manner....It also plans to simplify what vehicles customers can order....it's moving from 35,000 combinations in the current Fusion to 96.
"We really offered too many options," Hackett said.
Earlier you wondered about the price difference between the regular EX and EX hybrid. Because of that torque news article suggesting a big price cut, it seems like the c. $3000 price difference between regular and hybrid models of the Accord right now might go down to as low as $1000 at the EX level. At least that's what I'm hoping, although that may be unrealistic. But if the difference is c. $1k, that would be made up by gas savings in just a little more than 2 years. If Honda really wants the hybrid to be a sales success, I think the "payback rate" needs to be less than 3 years. Right now with the 2018 Camry Hybrid LE, it takes c. 8 years before you save enough on gas to pay back what it costs over a regular 2018 Camry LE.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mini, where I was last night, has a crazy amount of customization. Build however you want pretty much.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Fusion was on the right path with a great global platform (shared with European Mondeo) but Mark Fields got greedy and cut the refresh budget and delayed the new model so it's essentially unchanged since 2013 except for the sport 2.7L turbo engine. Hackett is fixing that now so expect a new Fusion in the next 2 years or so, probably on the same platform. That should put it back into a solid 3rd place. They're not abandoning it. The vehicles being cut are C-Max, Taurus and probably Fiesta in North America. Ka, B-Max, S-Max and Galaxy may get cut in MOW.
Ford needed to cut down on the options. We bought a 2016 MKX Reserve - the highest trim level not counting Black Label. There were still 5 separate option packages that included adaptive cruise control, LED headlamps, upgraded sound system and other things that should have been standard on the highest trim package. Ridiculous. We ended up foregoing the adaptive cruise and automatic braking because we didn't want to wait 8 weeks to order this time.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Beyond Safety, which most people (fortunately) don't have to experience a collision to find out, a rigid well-built chassis contributes to lighter weight, but stronger more rigid frames, which means better handling, better fuel economy and a better "feel." You either appreciate this as a driver, or you don't. Most true enthusiasts do. Even Kia/Hyundai have made weight reduction strides, but in some of them, I feel as if perhaps it's extra thin sheet metal, and other concessions reducing the weight.
I know in my Audi, it is as light as it can be while still maintaining that bank vault build quality. I went from Honda '03 Accord LX V6 Coupe to my string of Audi's, that says something about Honda being good for a non-luxury make.
Camry 34,732 +13%
Accord 29,789 +9%
Fusion 21,253 +3%
Altima 16,569 -34%
Optima 9,982 +10%
Sonata 9,889 -36%
Passat 4,636 -27%
Legacy 3,902 -35.3%
Mazda6 3,036 -25.1%
Big declines for Altima, Sonata, Passat, Legacy, and the Mazda6....
What they are doing isn't working, at least sales wise. Not sure how profitable they are.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2020 C43 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Doesn't work with a lot of other manufacturers. My Dad bought a 2010 Tahoe LTZ. The Sticker Price was in the $58 or $59K range. The truck had NAV, Rear DVD, Sunroof, & Blind Spot Monitors. Fast forward to March of 2012. Chevy has some serious deals on leftover 2011 Tahoes plus 0% financing for 72 months. The dealer found the truck he wanted (2011 Black LTZ Tahoe) that had a slightly higher MSRP than his 2010 did. We assumed it had all the same options. We made the mistake of not checking the options before we signed the papers. It had the Nav, Sunroof, Rear DVD Player, the Trailer Brake Control, & Max Towing Package (transmission cooler), but NO Blind Spot Monitors.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
The Mazda6 is a really good car too. I've owned Mazdas and I think they're a lot of fun to drive. Because of the slow sales they are probably a real bargain right now, although I guess that's true of almost all midsize cars—except maybe for the all new Camry and all new Accord.
With Altima sales really slipping and reviews behind the top midsizers you could bet Nissan will have deep discounts to buy / lease this vehicle. If GM was smart with there excellent 2018 Malibu model they should get creative w there discounts too.... knock the bottom dwellers sales further down and possible steal sales from Optima , Camry , Fusion sales .
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Mazda6 profit margin is pretty slim with these new declining sales numbers. At what point does Mazda say lets try something different. My neighbors 26yr old kid leased a 2016 mazda6... He cant wait to get rid off it because Front seats are to contoured , very un-comfortable when driving.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Imho almost these companies are making their big profits on SUVs at this point.
One exception is the new Honda Civic, which has been a big hit, and has sold with only medium-sized discounts. Honda took a gamble with making the Civic "best-in-class" in as many ways as they could, which no doubt made the car more expensive to build, but at this point the Civic sells at a "premium" of c. $1000-$5000 over the likes of Focus, Elantra, and even Corolla—and so it's paid off for them. Similar thing is going on with the new Accord as far as I can tell. They are counting on it being "best in class" and in a different category from a Sonata, Fusion, or whatever else. It's not clear if they quite got there or not. But if people turn out to be willing to pay extra to own an Accord, like people pay extra for a Civic, the gamble will have worked. Honda has priced the Accord attractively, but after that they are counting on not having to do big incentives, again imho.
The new Camry seems very close, but some reports of the so-so interior materials on the base LE, and other issues (road noise, transmission performance) might possibly indicate that Toyota's accountants pulled them back a bit in the final execution of the car. It still seems like a very good car, but....
Anyway, we will wait for the comparison tests. But most of the early reviewers of the 2018 Accord seem already to be giving it a slight edge over the 2018 Camry.
I think it's beyond slim. I think Mazda, Ford, Nissan, Hyundai, etc. have probably collectively lost billions of dollars on midsize cars in the last couple of years. My guess is that only Toyota and Honda are making a small profit on the shrinking midsize market, and because of the many billions of dollars in development costs that T and H threw at their all-new cars, my guess is there's not really much profit there when that's really counted.
Imho almost these companies are making their big profits on SUVs at this point.
One exception is the new Honda Civic, which has been a big hit, and has sold with only medium-sized discounts. Honda took a gamble with making the Civic "best-in-class" in as many ways as they could, which no doubt made the car more expensive to build, but at this point the Civic sells at a "premium" of c. $1000-$5000 over the likes of Focus, Elantra, and even Corolla—and so it's paid off for them. Similar thing is going on with the new Accord as far as I can tell. They are counting on it being "best in class" and in a different category from a Sonata, Fusion, or whatever else. It's not clear if they quite got there or not. But if people turn out to be willing to pay extra to own an Accord, like people pay extra for a Civic, the gamble will have worked. Honda has priced the Accord attractively, but after that they are counting on not having to do big incentives, again imho.
The new Camry seems very close, but some reports of the so-so interior materials on the base LE, and other issues (road noise, transmission performance) might possibly indicate that Toyota's accountants pulled them back a bit in the final execution of the car. It still seems like a very good car, but....
Anyway, we will wait for the comparison tests. But most of the early reviewers of the 2018 Accord seem already to be giving it a slight edge over the 2018 Camry.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Ford had in the story told in this book about the 1990s, engineered and built the mark 2 Taurus to sell at a premium over other midsize cars, and when it didn't, the lead engineer and his team had to go back through and find ways to make the Taurus cheaper to build asap. It's a story that always stuck with me. In some midsize cars that you get as rentals, like the Altima, you can almost see where they had dreams of it being a nice car, but then, over time, and without sales success, it goes from good enough to not so good....
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
I'm sure both companies would rather have Ford's mix.
The dealer where I bought my Fusion has a grand total of 3 listed in their inventory. Usually they would have 15-20.
@benjaminh, I've been meaning to get that book. Thanks for posting it.
My wife had a 96 SHO, which looked better than the regular Taurus.
There was not a straight line on that car.
Not available as an ebook, so I ordered a paperback version.
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/asset.download.image.web.html/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/2017/04/10/Police-Responder-Hybrid-Sedan-6.jpg