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Audi A8
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Comments
The MMI is a pleasure to use, and the car feels a lot smaller than it really is.
Anyone who gets in it is amazed at the interior. It totally blows away all others (I have not seen the new Merc yet).
Anyway.....
(E)
I got the papers in the mail yesterday about the "free" extended warranty and other Audi products to be released in the near future. The R8 Lemans will be a force to be reckoned with. But for some reason, I can't understand why Audi will release the S8 with 450hp when my W-12 produces the same thing. Ah well.
I will be in Dutch country for a while starting next week, so my W-12 will likely be parked until spring. But I will still communicate with you fellas.
One major reason for the larger car was my two year old granddaughter. I felt she needed more room in the back than my BMW 330 convertible offered. It is now much easier to my wife to "hop" in back and tend to her when necessary.
As car as AoA goes..I have a complaint in with my regonal rep about my local dealer. There were a few days of conversation, and then a "I'll talk with him and get back to you. You have a valid complaint". Well, it's been well over a week, and I think that the regional guy might think it easier to just let it drop. At this point, I feel the service offered by Audi is typical. A lot of hot air and very little delivery...unless it is really easy.
Eric
ps Tony, that is my name. I have become so used to just signing with (e) that I forget a lot of people don't really know who (e) is!
can someone pls tell me if Audi ever has financing specials on used vehicles? I'm extremely interested in purchasing a low mileage 2004 A8L. I'm not in a hurry to purchase the vehicle and can wait - but I just wanted to know if financing specials existed for used A8s. I know they have financing specials on used BMW 7 series (my second choice) currently going on in the chicagoland area (where I'm also from). But I'm in love with the A8L !!
thanks!
(E)
M-B is a wonderful carmaker. But for the life of me, why did they try to turn the ubiqutous S-Class into a 7-Series BMW. It has the plump butt and the overly-done body treatment. The previous-gen Merc was a force to be reckoned with in the style department. Understated yes, but wholly luxurious and prominent.
A 362-hp V-8 @ $115k VS. a 450-hp V-10 @ $99k???????????
Need I say more? Audi is clearly the best pick here in the pricing and content dept.
I'm still skeptic on this one as the S8 will only have 398 pound feet of torque, vs. my 448 worth. I guess only time will tell when I get a chance to drive one next fall. P.S.- I saw another S-Class today. It was a S-320 CDI. This was one of the quietest diesels I've ever heard. I stood right next to it and thought it was a S-550. Too bad, we know the US is not going to let M-B import this diesel unless it is able to pass the new stringent particulate/sulfur test required by the DOT and EPA in '07. I give credit where credit is due, Merc know a thing or two about designing and building diesels and turbo-diesels.
Comparing the S8 to the S550 isn't an apples to apples camparision. As much as I like the S8 it won't have a prayer with the upcoming S63 or the S65 AMG models. Those are the cars that it should be compared with, the S550 isn't a tuner model. The same goes for the S6. Wonderful car, but completely outgunned by the E55 and M5. Thats the "pack" not the regular luxury models.
M
Merc I wonder what the cost of the super fast Mercedes 550 is ?? Sort of verse the s 8.. I still compare a car with the dollars they cost for what you get, although you are right....Tony
I wasn't comparing the S8 and S550 as it was just seeing what you get for the money. True, the upcoming S600 and S63(there will be no S65) will blow it out of the water, maybe in a straight line. However, when it comes time turn in curves, the S8 has clear advantage, having weighing some 500-600 pounds lighter and AWD-equipped, hence powering all four wheels at the same time in a curve. S8, Jaguar Super V8, and the Maserati Q-Porte will be outgunned in a straight line, but it will take the M5 to catch them in the corners. The Mercedes models are just too heavy for true sporting character. I should know, having just come from an S65. It was a rocketship in a straight, but throw in some curves, it's weight becomes evident, despite being ABC equipped and stiffer suspension.
As for the S6, now the E55 and CLS55 will tear it up in a straight line or a fast corner. It hasn't a prayer. But that's not to say all is lost. It has one glowing thing NO other car in the class has: QUATTRO!! And this is why the S8 and S6 will sell very well, especially in the Snowbelt states.
Yeah, but who is going to buy one with all that equipment? I doubt you'll see many loaded like that, may as well wait for the S63 or get a S600. The average S550 won't cost anywhere near 115K.
I wasn't comparing the S8 and S550 as it was just seeing what you get for the money. True, the upcoming S600 and S63(there will be no S65) will blow it out of the water, maybe in a straight line. However, when it comes time turn in curves, the S8 has clear advantage, having weighing some 500-600 pounds lighter and AWD-equipped, hence powering all four wheels at the same time in a curve.
Well there is a S65 AMG, it goes on sale here in the U.S. in July. I agree that for the money the S8 is a better "value" if you're looking at hp numbers but I doubt the typical S550 buyer is going to want something so sporty.
Oh I hear you about the weight and general setup of Mercedes' cars, even the sportier ones from AMG. The Quattroporte only has one competitor when it comes to handling, the M5. The S8 I doubt will match it. Though I don't think the weight advantage of the S8 will be 500-600lbs, that would make the upcoming S63 a 4900lbs car! I doubt it will that heavy. We'll just have to see if the new S63 or S65 have learned any new handling tricks with the W221 platform.
The S6 still has appeal, but I wonder why Audi wouldn't give this car at least the same hp as the S8. The S6 will likely be matched (if not outdone in the corners) by a mere BMW 550i 6-speed. Hardly seems worth the effort. There just has to be a RS6 in the works, at least I hope there is.
M
Moreover, the S63 and the S65 are the same cars. The new S65 has a new trick 6.3L V-8, but Merc decided to keep the S65 moniker. There wil be, however a performance model slated between the S550 and the S63/5. Sort of like the S55 and then the S65 of the '00-'06 S.
As to the S's price when loaded, in the past model S500, few were ill-equipped. Most were loaded to the tilt, Now the S430 was a different story. You could find plenty of them with "minimal" Merc options. I'm willing to bet it'll stay the same.
Actually the G has been granted a stay of execution in light of all the feedback from its few fans. It is now supposed to get a facelift and continue on until 2009. Isn't that just grand!
Moreover, the S63 and the S65 are the same cars. The new S65 has a new trick 6.3L V-8, but Merc decided to keep the S65 moniker. There wil be, however a performance model slated between the S550 and the S63/5. Sort of like the S55 and then the S65 of the '00-'06 S.
No, the new S65 is the V12 604hp real deal. See article. The new AMG 6.2L V8 will power the S63 and at the current moment rumor has it will be turbocharged for S/CL/SL duty.
M
Audi still has the hand-up on interiors. No carmaker exudes(ok, maybe Bentley, but wait, they're under the VW umbrella also) as much craftsmanship and quality in their interior materials, ergonomics, and overall style, although the new Merc "fiber-optic" lighting is an interesting and appealing addition.
My W-12 has all what a luxo ride should be: Stately, stylish, luxurious, quiet, and power all in one package.
My wife and I have an opportunity to purchase a 2005 A8 in blue with the amaretto interior; convenience pkg; wood steering wheel; 19" wheels; and a couple other options. We like the car and the configuration.
Unfortunately, it has 15,000 (and change) kilometres on it and has only been on the road about 11 months. According to the dealer, it was assigned to the General Manager of the dealership, but it also seems that many other people had a "turn" driving it. It has also been used as a demonstrator. It seems to us that it has a lot of "non-gentle" mileage on it and is really a used car, not a "demonstrator".
It has some scuff marks in the leather and a few other minor problems (broken driver right armrest, scratch in the wood panel in back centre console, and a scuffed front passenger wheel and minor scratches/scrape on front right bumper). We have indicated that the contract must include the repair or replacement of all these items and general acceptable condition of the car to us, or we have the ability to void the contract at our option.
Original cost approx $102k CDN and we are offering $78k CDN (which is the current value according to the Jan/06 "red book"). Looks like the dealership want somewhere around $89k though - which seems very high to us.....
Any comments?
Thanks.
The S8 is a killer car for under 100k. Even the latest edition of Car and Driver called the S8 a bargain. The upcoming S6 is also very reasonable and will start in the high 70's and have the 420 hp V-10.
Secondly, @ 89k, I think I would be looking at a new '06 for that kind of dough. It will be tough however to find your exact combo. This is why I waited 4 months to get mine across the pond. I wouldn't purchase the car higher than your offering price.
Alas, the Audi is a terrific car to have ownership of. Very dependable and the road manners and driveability comes close to the top of the heap(750iL). Very low maintenance, and I've got the W-12. The 4.2's are easier to maintain.
P.S.- This car has seem some pretty rough stuff, judging from your description. The dealer would have to address those minor issues before they come major ones.
I agree. The VW Empire as I call it, is king at interiors. From VW to Audi to Bentley to the new Bugatti, no one matches them on interior design and quality of materials.
M
Well the outgoing S55 was like 120K, not 140. I think anything over 300hp is overkill as it surely isn't needed. It is done for bragging rights. The S8 is a bargain compared to AMG S-Classes for sure, but well under 100K the M5 will see it off quite easily. The Quattrporte also comes to mind. While the S6 is a nice car it really doesn't stand a chance against the E55 or M5. Sometimes I wonder why they'd even bother with an S6 and not just do a RS6 with the proper hp to compete with the M5 and upcoming E63. The S6 could be seen however as a superb alternative to a fully loaded E500 or 550i for a lot of buyers, so I guess it does have a place. They need a RS6 to compete with the AMG/M versions though.
M
One problem that I was unaware of is it's price. The RS6 back then costed upwards of 90k, when the others were fully-stacked @ 70-75k, so I can only imagine what this one would cost over here, especially with the bargain S8 at only $96k.
BUT, the performance speaks volumes about the automobile. Yes, this is the car that it will take to sloooooooowwwwww down the AMG kids. But all is not lost. It seems Audi is a little weary that BMW is dropping a V-8 in the upcoming M3, so it seems that an import version of the hot RS4 will be coming to our shores. This will be a very exciting addition to the already (IMO) M3-beating S4.
But for now, i'll just be content in my luxo-boat until that time.
I'm hoping that they'll do a new generation RS6 based on the new S6.
M
The S55 has 493hp and it's the most likely rival for the new V10 S8. It lists for about 117k. The S8 will be about 95k or so.
If you have this much money, 20 grand won't kill you. But I think the S8 will be a better looking car. And I like the X factor of having a V10 engine, even though the MB has a bit more HP. I'd want AWD with anything over 400hp in my car anyway.
This is the Audi rocket though, the RS4:
M
Once I got over my intitial infactuation with the car, I entered my friends house and the first question was, whose car is that? He said it's his for the rest of the year. Well quite naturally it would be his seeing how is a top exec at DCX.
So to make a long story short, I got a chance to drive the car, which was a full-production model @ about $111K. The car drove splendidly well, markedly better than my '05 S65 or the '01 S500. I enjoyed the body control and ride quality that it had. It was very entertaining and the new 4-valve V-8 is years ahead of the 3-valver it replaces. Better throttle response and it sounds better through the rev range than that of my 2001 S500. With that said, I wonder why Mercedes skimped out on the interior. Don't get me wrong, it's interior is better than the outgoing '06 model, particularly how the panels line up and the interior material choice is appropiate at this price range. Everything feels rich. BUT, this ain't no Audi. The center stack, even tho better than the old one, looks cheap. The window switches remind me of my '72 Caddy Eldo convertible. They have a metallic look to them that doesn't go with the rest of the car. And can we say i-Drive, part 2. It is almost a direct clone. They could've learned a thing or two from Audi's MMI.
On the other hand, he drove my W-12 and was immediately impressed. He had never driven a new A8, so he was shocked at the way the car behaved, especially since the car is such a sleeper. He said that he wishes that he could hire the entire interior design team away from the VW Group and install them at DC. His remarks were that the seats are exemplary, and the choice of plastics, leather's, wood's, and fabrics are nothing short of outstanding.
After a few(ok, way too many) drinks, I asked, if you had to choose, which car would you take home today? Shockingly, he said the Audi. I said even tho it's been on the market for 2 years, it's not the "in" car right now. He replied that it doesn't matter; the time and effort that Audi puts in their cars speaks volumes about the product that they put on the market.
I'll let you know how it went when we return.
eric
This is a new experience for me. My last two cars where a BMW 330CI Convertible w/sports package and a Porsche Boxster w/sports package. Both of which would do 360s with more than 3 snowflakes on the ground!
eric
Now if we can get rid of the snow, I'll be able to enjoy the dry side of the W-12's performance.
M
I had the car raised for the first part of my traveling, but quickly brought it back down when I realized I was not where near bottoming out.
As was said, the car handle with aplomb and is a pleasure to drive even in this pretty bad weather.
(e)
Now far as model designation is concerned in the performance area, sure, it's only fair to compare apples-to-apples. The W-12 and the S600. The S600 is faster, but the W-12 is a much better cocoon to enjoy the scenery in.
M
As to the reliabililty issues from Consumer Reports, one sentence: Don't believe everything you read. Case and point:
I owned a '98 Lexus LS400, which at the time was supposed to be the reliablilty king in the luxury car biz. At 4000 miles, the PCM(computer) went out, at 12300 miles the tranny, and then at 35000 miles the front suspension needed major work(bushings, control arms, and tie-rod ends). All was done under warranty true enough, but this is still a Toyota in a tux, so these issues should be non-existant.
By comparison, the Consumer Reports has both the BMW 750il and Mercedes S-Class with subpar reliability standings. Well I've owned both, and besides the Bimmer's i-Drive unit crashing twice and the Merc's fuel management system problem on the 2001 S500, they were all excellent reliable cars. My Audi has needed nothing more than 93 octane to keep it going.
Reliability ratings on most luxury cars are going to be generally lower than those on a run-of-the-mill car. So yes, an Audi A8 will have lower reliability ratings than a VW Jetta or Beatle. A LS430 will not have the same reliability rating as a Camry, nor will a Acura RL acheive the high levels of reliability a Honda Accord has, and so on. This all is because most luxo cars come with so many gadgets that they are generally included in what "breaks down" from time to time. BMW, Audi, Jag, Merc, Lexus, Acura, even Caddy vehicles are overloaded with techno-gadgets that will over a long period of time start to have difficulties. But this is to be expected as nothing works forever, Laws of Science.
As for the price, you may find some eager dealers willing to go for invoice pricing. My sister just bought a S4 Cab for $500 over invoice, which was a spectacular deal seeing how there are only a handful S4 Cabs imported.
Alas, the seats. The 16-way Multi-Adjustable seat is a marvel of a seat. The cushion actually adjusts seperately of the rest of the seat, the headrest adjusts are power, it tilts fore and aft, it's height adjustable, and the W-12's have a cooling fuction(I think the A8L's have it as an option). The seats are so comfortable that you'll never get the fatigued feeling associated with most German leather seats.