Hybrids in the News

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Comments

  • tradscotttradscott Member Posts: 108
    Maybe that is the more accurate comparison: You both think you're right :P
  • danashieldsdanashields Member Posts: 49
    And here's the weird irony: it's going to take a combination of Hummer and Hybrid drivers who are going to force the industry to change. Because hybrid buyers are going to force demand on the technology, and Hummer drivers are going to force demand on gas. Price of one goes down. Price of the other goes up.

    So, for example, if--in a perfect world--every red-stater purchased a Hummer, and every blue-stater bought a hybrid, in this extreme environment of polarization, the transition would be made effortlessly into alternate forms of energy.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20051- 017005338&newsLang=en

    LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 17, 2005--The Farmers Insurance Group of Companies announced it is the first in the U.S. to offer an insurance discount to customers who own a hybrid or alternative-fuel vehicle. The discount amount will be 5% for auto customers in California.
  • railroadjamesrailroadjames Member Posts: 560
    I think this is a smart move by "Farmers Ins. Group". I'd like to see more of this discounting especially with my own company. I think insurance companies would anxiously welcome Hybrid owners . "THEY" are a consistant and diligent group that I have to believe are a safe risk for insurance companies. Lets hope this trend by ins. co.'s contiues to grow.
    Railroadjames(hybrids save in so many ways) ;)
    P.S. This trend could apply to "STATES" too as some have already done. Lets hope it comes to pass.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Article in Wall Street Journal on D3. Per JD Power....
    Hybrids expected to increase market share to 1.51% of vehicle sales in 2006.
    By 2012 hybrids are expected to offer 50 models and capture 4.1% of market.
    Diesel sales expected to increase to 7.5% of market by 2012 with 26 models.
    None of the top ten mpg vehicles of 2005 are among the top 10 volume sellers.
  • tradscotttradscott Member Posts: 108
    And I wouldn't expect the bleeding edge most efficient vehicles to be the top sellers since they will always have compromises.

    The technology developed on the bleeding edge, though, will funnel back into the top sellers and everyone will benefit. Even those evil Hummer drivers.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    By 2012 I would have thought we'd be driving around like in the Jetsons. That was back when I was a kid. We really haven't progressed that much. I used to own a 1990 Acura Integra (it would be 16yrs old if it wasn't stolen :cry: ). That car consistently got 30mpg even with my crazy driving.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Insurance companies who give premium breaks based on anything other than accident rates, crash ratings, theft ratings, and repair costs are headed for bankruptcy. They live or die based on the finances. So if this is deduction is based on one of the above reasons, all well and good. If it is just to be seen as eco friendly, well, it is just plain dumb.

    Maybe Farmers is privately owned, so they don't have to answer to stockholders?
  • railroadjamesrailroadjames Member Posts: 560
    Sounds like narrow thinking to me. Think outside the box. As I said in my previous comments, I see this as a conscientious move on the part of the insurance co. Many factors come into play and this appears to be a progressive attitude toward ..."what kind of driver owns & drives a hybrid." This being a new age I'm glad to to see their thinking as it is. Think what kind of driver owns & drives a G.T. Mustang and then ask yourself what you think the risk factors are on that person. I like this thinking. It likes hybrids.
    Railroadjames(hybrids savei in so many ways)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Maybe Farmers is privately owned, so they don't have to answer to stockholders?

    I have to call my agent tomorrow. I should get 5% off for my Sierra Hybrid. It sounds more like a sales gimmick to me. Giving 5% is not much if the owner of the hybrid is a good risk. I think it is a smart move by Farmers.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    I looked at their website but there is no mention of the hybrid discount yet. Here is what you may qualify for:

    Auto/Homeowners (discount for both)
    Senior Defensive Driver
    Frequent Edmunds Participants 10% ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Automakers will to have to slash the cost of developing gas-electric hybrid vehicles compared with conventional models before they truly catch on with the public, Honda Motor CEO Takeo Fukui said Tuesday, one day before Honda's new Civic hybrid goes on sale in the USA.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-10-18-honda-ceo-usat_x.htm
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Thanks for that link Backy. This reminds me of the mid 80's when computers were selling for $2,000. All you got was a monchrome monitor, 640k of memory and a 20 meg hard drive. Now look at prices 20 years later! I am sure costs will come down. BTW...that is the best looking Civic Honda as ever introduced. I am betting it will overtake the Corolla in sales this year.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    Latest opinion from Autoextremist.com:

    http://www.autoextremist.com/page5.shtml

    So, here's my message to the Happy Hybrid Faithful: Please dispense with the lectures and the smug air of superiority. It's beyond tedious. Just because you've discovered batteries does not constitute justification for giving the rest of us a dose of your annoying (and rapidly escalating) attitude.

    Drive what you like and like what you drive - and then please leave the rest of us the hell alone.


    ;)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/hybrids_survey.html

    More than half of Americans say they are considering the purchase of a hybrid for their next vehicle. Most are driven by the price of gas rather than environmental concerns.
    Recently, J.D. Power estimated that hybrids would account for only 4 percent of total vehicle sales by the end of the decade. But according to the polling firm TechnoMetrica, 55 percent of Americans are considering buying a hybrid, with the most likely buyers being those with incomes above $75,000 (68 percent).
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    I hear that autoextremist is run by Pat Robertson and Bill Graham. That could explain their stupidity.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    I've read similar information as well. Apparently the far right is very upset regarding this trend.
  • railroadjamesrailroadjames Member Posts: 560
    My My Mirth....Thanks for presenting our threads with such insight. The "Extreamist" just goes to show that they refuse to advance to change and adapt to the technology that makes our lives cleaner and less dependent on foreign oil. What more can I say other than .....You can lead a mule to water but.....well you know the rest.
    I do like to go down memory lane with the old classics that are shown on his site though. That was then and this is now. (I own a classic '73 Buick Riviera and still enjoy cruisin around town in the summer evenings. She's a headturner. For sure.
    P.S. He may be right about "us" thinking maybe we're a little wiser for going hybrid.
    Railroadjames(enjoy whatever you ride but save the earth)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    that guy is a Hybrid Hater....that is not News.....
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    Take a look at this beautiful 1938 PHANTOM CORSAIR:
    http://www.autoextremist.com/meadowbrook01.html

    It reminds me of an Insight.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    What a waste of bandwidth!! :surprise:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I dont know of autoextremits politcal views but of this I am certain. Congress and the President have determined that Hybrid buyers - the Prius especially - should be given some of YOUR money next year.. lots of it actually.

    So in addition to paying the MidEast more and more for your right to drive, now there's a good idea, you and the other autoextremists will be supporting all the Happy Hybrid Faithful for the next several years. Quick estimate: there will be abt 300000 hybrids delivered next year. lets say that the average Tax Credit is ~$1500 per vehicle so approximately $450 Million will be transferred to the Happy Hybrid Faithful. Social Engineering at its finest. Take from those who wont change and give it to those who will. I vote to do my share, participate in the giveaway and take as much as allowed by law.

    But continue to drive as you wish.. it is always your decision where to spend your money.

    kdhspyder
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well, I'm happy to pay .01 to .02 cents per year for the Hybrid Tax incentive program, or whatever it turns out to be per person, because it translates to:

    more Hybrids on the road,
    less fuel consumption,
    cleaner air, and
    more money for the car companies to improve their Hybrid technology,

    as in the improvement between Prius I and Prius II and also the improvement in the new 2006 Civic Hybrid over the previous Civic Hybrid.

    Go-Go-Hybrids !!! :D:D :shades:
  • whahappanwhahappan Member Posts: 69
    Did any of you trashing the piece actually read it? I think not. Far from being Hybrid Haters, they actually say hybrids are a good thing, just not the answer to all the world's problems. Their problem is not with Hybrids, but with the smug, holier than thou attitude of "the Happy Hybrid Faithful."
    So what's your reaction? You post smug, holier than thou replies. Sheesh.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    That's just stereotyping a general group by calling them "holier than thou" or "smug."

    Can we help it if we are passionate about our vehicles, and from our point of view, we know how good our technology is, and we are required to convince the unconvinced?

    If we come on strong, that's not the worst problem in the world. Driving more car/SUV/truck than you really need and wasting energy and money, that's the real problem.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    To be fair I did not read the report since it costs $1250. I did read the blurb on the website which does seem to be well balanced and realistic. If I misjudged the conclusion of the study that is my error.

    The link provided by mirth was one person's opinion that hybrids are only a partial solution to the nation's foreign energy dependence which as he points out also includes reducing the number of SUV's, building more efficient ICE's and probably investigating other alternative fuels. This is all correct. No quarrel with any of that.

    'Hybrid prophets' may seem like the voice crying in the wilderness but it's because the whole message; i.e. resource conservation, is not well-presented or that some respondents blindly state that no such need exists.

    kdhspyder
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Let's not make this personal please.

    Thanks!
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    I would tend to think most hybrid drivers/owners are merely happy that they feel they're doing THEIR part. I don't own a hybrid yet, but look forward to doing so. Will I feel smug? Nah... Will I be happy? You bet!!
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Sounds like narrow thinking to me. Think outside the box. As I said in my previous comments, I see this as a conscientious move on the part of the insurance co. Many factors come into play and this appears to be a progressive attitude toward ..."what kind of driver owns & drives a hybrid." This being a new age I'm glad to to see their thinking as it is. Think what kind of driver owns & drives a G.T. Mustang and then ask yourself what you think the risk factors are on that person. I like this thinking. It likes hybrids."

    I stand by my statement. Buisness is a lot like evolution in the jungle; it either survives or it doesn't, based on making money not "conscientious moves".

    The only way this could be good for the company is if they are writing it off as a public relations move, and expect that they will get more customers in return. But even in that case, it is strictly a matter of dollars and cents, or sense, if you prefer.

    Economics and "touchy-feely" don't work well together; eventually any company run by poor financial principles will fail.

    A savvy insurance shopper will select an insurance company based on how well they insure the property. As I said in my original post, if they are not basing this discount on viable insurance reasons, it means they are not as good an insurance company. And the bottom line for any insurance company is that if they cannot manage risk, they may not be able to pay when their poor risk estimates bear fruit and the company has to up the money to pay claims.
  • katzjamrkatzjamr Member Posts: 146
    I drive a hybrid and conventional trucks, im not 'lording' my choice over anyone. Mirths link to the road kill opinion made sense on some levels. I personally wish americans would at least do the little easy things to help conserve fuel i.e. proper tire inflation, not driving mindlessly with the AC on all the time, and maybe even sharing a ride. It is going to take a commitment from everyone to reverse our out of control fuel consumption in this country.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Late to join the hybrid party, many European car makers touted the advantages of clean diesel systems, which they argued cost less and got better mileage than gasoline-electric hybrids depending on driving habits.

    "Despite the big public debate right now, it will just be a niche technology," BMW AG Chief Executive Helmut Panke said, forecasting hybrids to account for no more than 5 percent of all cars in the long term.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/20/AR2005102000568.html
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote BMW guy-""Despite the big public debate right now, it will just be a niche technology,"-end quote

    Because he is so late and he does not live in the USA, he does not understand the Hybrid movement.

    I can assure him and any other doubters than in 2012 when virtually every car maker offers virtually every car or truck in their lineup with a hybrid option, and the added hybrid cost is down to only $1000, hybrids will be far from "niche."
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Agreed. BWM would be the LAST manufacturer to embrace that technology. It's just not in their business plan. Keep in mind that most of their cars are "niche" vehicles. Not a BAD thing either. Go hybrid!!!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://www.gnet.org/news/newsdetail.cfm?NewsID=29002&image1=2

    "Last month, Ford Motor Co. CEO Bill Ford laid out a new vision to turn his company into a leader in technological innovation and, just perhaps, an environmental performance champion as well. His announcement, including the promise to produce 250,000 hybrids annually by 2010, comes during a time of trouble for the industry, and we watched it with keen interest."

    Niche, Smiche !!! :D:D:D :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A savvy insurance shopper will select an insurance company based on how well they insure the property.

    When someone insures you it is a crap shoot. They are playing the odds that you will not crash into someone and cost them money. As has been documented hybrid drivers as a group seem to drive a little slower trying to squeeze their petrol dollars. This would be a good criteria for considering them less of a risk than the guy in a brand new Mustang. If Farmers Insurance is giving a 5% discount on hybrids, it is a good sales tool.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Driving slower does NOT make you a better risk. If anything, it puts you at higher risk! Another thing insurers NOW heavily rely on is your credit score. You can have a Hybrid and have a 610 FICO and your insurance will cost MORE.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If anything, it puts you at higher risk!

    I would say you may be more apt to get hit driving slower than the flow. That does not cost your insurance company. It costs the guys insurance company that hit you. All other things be equal the Mustang is a higher risk car than the Prius. I think the reason the Prius could have higher premiums has more to do with the cost to repair.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    I pay $376 every six months for full coverage. The Prius is not any more expensive to fix than a conventional vehicle in an accident. If there IS damage to the synergy hybrid system, then yes, costs will be higher. Luckily the people that drive hyrids, in general, are highly educated, more responsible, and account for less accidents.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    "Driving slower does NOT make you a better risk. If anything, it puts you at higher risk!"

    You seem to be confusing slower with impeding traffic. I don't think...or hope nobody here does that.
    Yes, taking a more cautious and aware attitude can make a better risk.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Sorry...that's what I meant. Going with the flow is the best for me. Impeding traffic can cause problems. I apologize for not being clearer.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "As has been documented hybrid drivers as a group seem to drive a little slower trying to squeeze their petrol dollars. "

    Not going to bother answering the rest of your post, which I disagree with, but could you please provide a link to the mientioned "documentation" that hybrid drivers as a group drive slower. Also, could you provide some proof that this translates into lower insurance risks?
  • tradscotttradscott Member Posts: 108
    Guys,

    Don't worry too much about the insurance companies. They have some statistiens locked in a room who have already figured out whether this discount makes sense or not. They won't share the data with us or with other insurance companies because the statistical regression that they do is a large part of their competitive advantage.

    These companies don't price their products because they Think that some group will be safer or not. They are nearly Certain, with very small margins of error, of what a certain group's accident rates will be. They are also certain what the probabilities of deviation from that number are.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    "Toyota is seeking to do for hybrids what Volvo did for safety. Fifteen years ago, nobody wanted airbags because they were too expensive. But look where we are now," says CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets analyst Christopher Richter.

    From this story:

    http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/oct2005/id20051020_443864.htm
  • danashieldsdanashields Member Posts: 49
    What on earth are you talking about? Driving slower makes you a bigger risk?

    I'm assuming you don't know the slightest thing about actuarial sciences and auto insurance.

    You're so totally wrong.
  • danashieldsdanashields Member Posts: 49
    There goes me shooting my mouth off again. Sorry, Falconone. I always contribute better when I just read... :blush:
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    No offense.. Not sure what you were referring to as I didn't look back. At any rate, my philosophy is to go with the flow. It ALWAYS works for me. As an aside, I detest drivers that go SLOWER than the speed limit in the left lane. That's another thread.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    From post 3313 - By 2012 hybrids are expected to offer 50 models and capture 4.1% of market. -end

    quote larsb - I can assure him and any other doubters than in 2012 when virtually every car maker offers virtually every car or truck in their lineup with a hybrid option, and the added hybrid cost is down to only $1000, hybrids will be far from "niche." -end

    4.1% of the market is still very much niche. I'm not assured.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Do the logic - when the "hybrid premium" which keeps all the "smart people" away from buying hybrids is down to $1000, and virtually ANY car you buy will have a hybrid option, they will get more than 4.1 percent of the market....Oh Yeah Baby...........

    Be Assured - Be VERY Assured.........:D :D
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The only way this could be good for the company is if they are writing it off as a public relations move, and expect that they will get more customers in return. But even in that case, it is strictly a matter of dollars and cents, or sense, if you prefer.

    This is precisely the reason they did what they did. They are subtly advertising for new customers with a certain profile. It's not a whole lot different than the Saturday ads for auto dealers and furniture stores. If they were giving the Prius owners a conscience-motivated thank you for being so 'enviro-friendly', then they would have just reduced the rates on the existing Prius' in the next billing cycle. All they would have had to do is put a little note in each bill saying 'Thanks for keeping the air clean. Here's a 5% reduction on your Prius.' But they didn't. They announced it in the press!! Why?

    I am 99+% certain that someone in the company did a marketing study which profiled the Prius owner in the biggest Hybrid market in the US - LA. What they likely found was an older ( more assets ), more affluent ( more assest to be insured ), well established ( pays bills on time ) conscientious citizen who could possibly afford to purchase additional types of insurance products rather than the struggling young couple just starting out. This is a way to get a foot in the door so to speak with a clientele that they might not have already.

    Its just business

    kdhspyder
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1122047,00.html

    "If anyone harbored any doubts that hybrid cars are hot, last week the 2005 Tokyo Motor Show put them to rest. Carmakers practically ran over one another promoting their versions in attempts to catch up with Honda and Toyota, the technology's pioneers. Companies such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Mazda, Mitsubishi, GM, Volkswagen and Porsche showed new models or talked about plans to sell them by the end of the decade at the latest. On display were not only regular hybrids, the kind powered by gasoline engines mated to electric motors, but also variations adding hydrogen to the mix and a system that puts electric motors at the wheels. The frenzy to churn out hybrids and their technological cousins is so fierce that archrivals GM, DaimlerChrysler and BMW have teamed up to build a research and technical center in the Detroit suburbs. And Ford is so desperate to fill 200 open jobs in its hybrid program that it's competing with Toyota to hire engineers from the software and aerospace industries. The stakes are high: Ford and GM announced third-quarter losses of nearly $2 billion combined last week, thanks in part to plunging sales of SUVs."

    Did everybody get that? Anyone care to still call Hybrids a "FAD" ???? ;)
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