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Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)

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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Here is the most recent article dealing with the problem in Toyota/Lexus. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05102/486687.stm

    According to the article, the fix applies to all of the 2002 - 2005 Toyota/lexus line equipped with the 5-speed automatic transmission.

    Let us know if you get the software fix and if it solves your problem.
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    white330white330 Member Posts: 4
    I've been lurking around here and the RX330 P&S board for sometime.
    I thought it was time to be counted as an RX owner that DOES HAVE the hesitation problem. There may be possibly others like myself. The reason I'm coming out is regarding the post where most folks didn't report the hesitation issue. (pilot130)

    FYI, build date 08/04 (04 Model year), built in Canada.

    Love the car for most part, but HATE the hesitation issue.
    A $40K car should not do this!!!

    Currently car has 7.5K miles, we'll go for the upgrade at the 10K oil change and check up if positive news is posted here regarding the SW upgrade.

    I will report back after the upgrade.

    P.S. Eventhough I was quiet here....I did complain to LEXUS and the dealer and got the standard response...it's performing as designed.
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    bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    According to a well respected Toyota shop foreman, the fix will be covered by the Federal Emissions Warranty simply because the original design of the software was implemented to conform with and under the close scrutiny of the EPA, who, then makes the ultimate determination that the vehicle(s) conformed to the guidlines of the Ultra Low Emisssion Vehicle specifications. At least that's the way I understood it.
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    bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    Is there a safety issue with the DBW w/5 speed and it's hesitation problem? After giving it some thought, I have to say yes, there is an inherent safety issue. Sometimes, while driving, life and death situations can be dictated by split second decisions that we as drivers must make. For example, If there is complete, quick and total responsiveness from the throttle and brakes, and of course, taking into account a drivers quick reaction time, some accidents can be avoided. However, if there is any delay in reaction time (either mechanical or human), accidents are more likely. That said, if some owners are complaining about 2 second delays, or 1 second delays or even 0.5 second delays, is that acceptable? I think Toyota has determined that it is not acceptable. I don't think they are volunteering to fix something that is not broken. I keep thinking about that saying "He who hesitates is lost".
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The logic of claiming a safety issue isn't that strong, IMO, because just as often hesitating can be as safe as making a sudden move. Ever stop when you shoulda gone and gone when you shoulda stopped? Happens all the time.

    I see too many complex factors in what causes an accident to presume that a floppy gas pedal is dangerous all by itself. If anything, accelerating to get out of trouble is often a very bad idea. I think more people hit things while stabbing the gas in a panic than laying off it to see what develops.

    I personally can't see a good driver not being able to deal with a simple hesitation, as annoying as it might be. How can not going anywhere for a split second cause an accident? If the fear is about being rammed from behind, that's always the fault of the other driver, not you and not your car.

    I worry that claiming safety issues dilutes rather than enhances the consumer's chance of redress in cases like this because it is such a stretch in terms of probability, and in the face of evidence or lack thereof. Usability of the product and comparison of performance to other products is the horse you want to beat on. "Similar cars do not do this" and "I have suffered loss of use" are good tactics, safety claims are IMO a very dubious route.
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Two specific situations where others have reported close calls sound dangerous to me:

    1. Slowing in a turn lane to make a left turn, there is a break in traffic so you accelerate and now are sitting in the middle of the lane with oncoming traffic and getting no response - 1 - 2 seconds can be an eternity in this position.

    2. Driving 20 - 30 mph in a merge lane onto an interstate, you are nearing the end of the merge lane and there is a break in traffic that requires you to accelerate. You move into the traffic lane, press the gas, and nothing happens. Yes you are hit from behind, so it may be considered the other driver's fault, but it is still an accident and someone could end up hurt.

    If an accident occured in either of these situations, I don't know if it would be reported as caused by a hesitating transmission -- particularly if the driver were injured and not able to explain what happened.

    As a consumer, I would expect a safety hazard to take precedence over all other concerns and not be something that dilutes the issue. But lack of safety does impact usability (I cannot drive this car because it is too dangerous in the conditions I must drive in every day) , so you may have a point there. :sick:
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well lotsa luck, but I don't see how you could possibly prove that your gas pedal caused the accident.. Why? Because a cop or even a mediator can see a brake pedal that goes to the floor, or a blown out tire, or a broken steering shaft, but a sometimes maybe sorta hesitating gas pedal? I don't think you'd have a prayer proving this kind of thing was dangerous. The "cause" of the accident in the cases you mentioned would be more logically (to me) either the person who was asleep that hit you, or you, who cut in front of him and didn't give him time to stop, or even more likely, both of you in double fault. It's like saying that a floppy sun visor caused your accident, or that a bee sting did, or the horn blew and startled you. All very human things. But.....you are supposed to be in control of your car at all times.

    This is were your "loss of use" argument works so much better. You argue that you have to change your driving habits and drive "with a handicap".

    I don't wish to be stubborn, but I'm trying to frame this in the terms by which it would most likely be judged---not to dispute your apprehension about it.

    Saying your car has a safety defect is a very dubious speculation to be judged in places were speculation doesn't do very well.

    But proving loss of use (trips to dealer, having to compensate while driving) or comparative deficiency compared to like cars (correspondence of your complaints to various organizations, driving other friend's cars) is not speculative, it's actual data you have or witnesses you can use.
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    jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    I would I think by now we would hear from one of the posters here (with the hesitation) who has contacted their dealer about the SW update. I know if I had as much dislike for the issue as some of you have, I would be on the phone or in their service drive already...It's been six days since the article, I think.

    Can anyone confirm that the update actually exists rather than the Post-Gazette article?
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    PROVE the hesitation is dangerous is an entirely different line of discussion vs actually BEING DANGEROUS.

    I have absolutely no question that the sudden spontaneous and totally unpredictable fogging over of my new 1992 LS400 windshield was extremely dangerous. But being able to prove something often means being able to replicate the situation "at will", or with some reliability.

    The first rule of troubleshooting almost anything is to find a way to replicate the problem or complaint. So far it appears that none of us has any idea what parameters lead to the engine hesitation delay.

    And yes, sometimes hesitating before "jumping" can be the safe thing to do. But that doesn't by any means that not being able to "jump" isn't dangerous.

    That argument just simply doesn't equate.
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    bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    It's all about control. When driving, should the car control us or should we be able to control the car? i.e. (responsiveness).
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    bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    I think the best place to get an up to the minute update may be the Lexus forum, since Lexus is the first to get the TSB. Hopefully, someone who had the work done will let us know the results. There is a post today on the Lexus ES-330 forum that shows an April 1, 2005 TSB that looks like an update of an earlier 2003 TSB.
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Very well put.

    In regards to Mr. Shiftright's post. I guess I can respect where you are coming from. You are saying it is too difficult to prove that he condition is unsafe, as in going to court or arbitration over it. I agree. It would be difficult. But that does not mean that it is safe, as I think wwest was saying. I would hope that NHTSA doesn't have to go to those same levels of proof. It they do some test drives and notice an unreasonable amount of response time from the time the accelerator is pressed until the car responds in a normal driving situation, then can't they deem it unsafe without waiting for there to be an accident where they can prove that the hesitation was the cause?

    Well, hopefully this is all moot if the software upgrade is effective. They did try a software upgrade earlier for the Lexus and it did not help, so until we get some reports, the jury is out. jbolt, I think it may take some time. If Toyota just announced the fix on April 12, I would think it would be several weeks or longer to get the word out to their dealerships. I wonder, will they be required to notify owners in writing or will they just be waiting for customers to come in with a complaint before implementing the fix?
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    jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    Thanks, bkinblk...This may in fact be the help some are looking for, it is dated April 4, 2005, and is titled:
    "ECM CALIBRATION: SHIFT FEELING ENHANCEMENT" '02-'03 ES 300 & '04-'05 ES 330, and specifically states:

    "To imporve the transmission shift feeling during specific operating modes, the Engine Control Module (SAE term: Powertrain Control Module/PCM) calibration has been revised. These improvements include:

    -Reduced downshift lag when accelerating at speeds from 10-20 mph
    -Less gear hunting when driving on/off accelerator pedal at 20-30 mph (for example: during heavy rush-hour traffic)
    -Improved response rate druing heavy acceleration from a stop.

    I hope that anyone getting this TSB performed will promptly report back here. I wonder if Toyota has the same (or similar) TSB?

    Jeff
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's right. I was referring to proving the safety issue as being very difficult and as cluttering up your case in arbitration/court/whatever.
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    jimc16jimc16 Member Posts: 21
    I leased a 2004 RX330 almost exactly 2 years ago, and within weeks of taking delivery, the hesitation started. I have about 23,000 miles on it now and the problem continues to this day. The problem is a combination of throttle hesitation (1 second or longer) and a hesitation in transmission downshifting (an additional 1 second or more) after slowing down, then trying to re-accelerate. I took it back to the leasing dealership and they sent a technician with me for a test drive. After having the car for a week, they finally installed the transmission programing upgrade. That helped the down shifting problem, but the transmission re programed itself in a few weeks and the problem returned. I took it to a different Lexus dealership and they also sent a technician on a test drive with me. He said that a lot of people have complained, but there was no factory fix. I called the Lexus district office and got the same response, no factory fix is available. I reported the problem to the NHTSA.
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    jimc16,

    Did they install the transmission programming upgrade recently? Apparently sometime earlier this month, Toyota issued what I think must be a new software upgrade (see jbolt's post above re. '02-'03 ES 300 & '04-'05 ES 330 and Pittsburgh Post Gazette article about all 02 - 05 Toyota/Lexus models with 5 speed auto transmission)
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    jimc16, I did a quick check of the NHTSA website for technical service bulletins on the '04 RX330 and found nothing for 2005, so it doesn't appear that they have listed anything for the new software upgrade there yet. There are a couple of TSBs regarding the ECM dated 2003 that state they cover the 2004 RX330. I am thinking that must be the repair that you got. If that is the case, you should check with your dealership to see if they have received notice of this new software upgrade and check it out.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    published in the newspaper doesn't necessarily mean that this is a NEW fix. Some months ago didn't we hear of a firmware fix that didn't fully work. Maybe the early one jimc16 had done and the one in the current news is one and the same.

    NEWS isn't always NEW.
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    The article certainly makes it sound like it is something new. Also, jbolt's post above includes reference to a new TSB for the ES300/330. I am anxious to hear some results, but I know it is going to take some time. jimc16 said that his fix worked initially but that his RX330 reverted back to the previous behavior over time. Even Toyota doesn't sound too convinced this is going to work -- in the article they are quoted:

    "The upgrades produce "incremental improvement in shift quality," spokesman Wade Hoyt said. The problem may still exist for some owners, and the company continues to work on other fixes, he added."

    So, even they aren't deeming this as The Fix if they are continuing to work on "other " fixes.
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    jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    wwest, the date of the new TSB is April 4, 2005.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Read post # 1097 and 1098 on:

    Toyota Sequoia Owners: Problems and Solutions.

    While keeping in mind that the engine hesitation seems to pertain ONLY to FWD or front torque bias AWD and the Sequoia is RWD or rear biased.
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    hmmmm. I just re-read the article and nowhere does it say that this is a "new" software upgrade. So you bring up a very good point, wwest...

    "Toyota has announced computer software upgrades that it says should help eliminate hesitation problems in five-speed automatic transmissions in 2002 to 2005 models, a company spokesman said."
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Those posts are about the 2005 Sequoia with the 5-speed automatic -- previous MY's have 4-speed.
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    jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    You may be right. I re-read the April 1, 2005 TSB revison. I appears only to add the '04 and '05 ES 330 to the previous applicable vehicles. here is the link to the TSB:
    link title
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    It would be disappointing if this announcement is for their 2003 software upgrade. I have read several reports, in addition to jimc's report above, stating that these earlier fixes were only temporary in nature, with the problem returning. It could be that it provides some long-term improvement for some but not all, I suppose.

    Yes, I am more convinced that this is not The Fix, just something to tide things over until The Fix can be determined.
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    dla2dla2 Member Posts: 87
    the best info I have seen yet. One important bit is at the bottom of the first page.

    "Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer's specific complaint"

    You must complain to get the update.
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    dla2, That seems to answer my earlier question about how owners would be notified (that is, if this revision of the old TSB is the same software upgrade mentioned in the P-G article - we don't really know that for sure yet even though it looks like that may be the case).

    One thing I have learned (and this is not just a Toyota issue btw) is that the dealerships are not always aware of the TSBs or at least they act like they have never heard of the problem until the customer mentions it. That is why it is good to stay up to speed on what has been issued for your vehicle.
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    kraftkraft Member Posts: 29
    Has anyone of you guys considered where the news of the fix came from? That newspaper guy in Pittsburg isn't the brightest light around, and does not always get it right in his articles.
    This whole fuss may be based on bad information.
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    dino01dino01 Member Posts: 26
    I went to the SouthCoast Toyota, Costa Mesa, CA on Saterday. Show the service manager the newspaper article. According to him there is no tsb for 2005 Camry for this issue. He took me to his office and show me the Toyota website where all of his TSB come from and there is nothing available for 2005 Camry.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The link is to a TSB that was originally issued August 4th, 2003. For all of you naysayers, "the hesitation problem doesn't exist", the three descriptions of the firmware fix in that TSB fit ALL OF THE VERSIONS of Toyota and Lexus owner complaints that I have seen posted here.

    Even right down to verification that "dithering" ("driving on/off") of the gas pedal has something to do with the hesitation symptom.

    August 4th, 2003.....

    That was over 1.5 years ago, indicating that Toyota and Lexus have known of the EXACT nature of this problem for at least two years.

    Interesting side note:

    Why would 2005 vehicles need to be updated via an TSB issued long before, 8/4/2003, they were manufacturered??

    Somebody not keeping good track of firmware revisions....??!!

    Over two years and still NO FIX.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I told you that nespaper guy was careless.

    I'm going to try some "inside lines" and see if I can find out the buzz on the block, from different dealers.
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    dla2dla2 Member Posts: 87
    I should have read more carefully. It appears this is just an update adding 04 and 05 to the 03 TSB
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    I wonder how quickly the dealerships get these notifications.

    I have had a problem where I knew a TSB existed (this was not for Toyota/Lexus), went to the dealership on my next service visit and asked about the TSB and they denied it existed. I then told them that I knew it was issued in Feb. 2003 and I would call back with the exact TSB number for them, and then they miraculously "found" the TSB. They look these things up on a computer, so I don't know how they would miss it initially. Wrong keyword? I think the second time around they found it by the date.

    It would be a good idea to call the Toyota corporate help number on this to see what they have to say about the software upgrade and TSB.

    jbolt's TSB is for the Lexus ES300 and ES330, so that TSB# isn't going to do you any good. I wonder if there is a similar earlier TSB for the Camry that may be gettinjg revised as well. How long has the Camry had the 5-speed automatic? I can see what I can find on NHTSA.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    He simply didn't know that the Toyota representative was like my USAF recruiter.

    It was what the recruiter DIDN'T tell me that later turned out to be important.
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    bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    Since this is initially a Lexus, not Toyota TSB, It would be great to find out from a Lexus owner or service manager if this April 4, 2005 TSB is an upgrade (improved) software charge, or just a notice to reprogram the newer models with the same ineffective fix that was implemented in 2003. (I hope not!)
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    The TSB says this: "1. Check for the Authorized Modifications Label affixed to the vehicle in the location shown in Figure 1. Confirm if ECM (PCM) calibration has been updated. If not the latest ECM (PCM) calibration — go to step 2." This makes me think that they have updated the original 2003 fix, at least for the ES300/ES330, but when the update occurred, who knows.
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    jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    Interesting to note, that the TBS involves placing an "Alterations Label" on the vehicle, stating "These modifications have been approved as appropriate by EPA and CARB".

    This would agree with earlier posts commenting on the fact that Toyota may not be able to just change these calibrations with out getting permission from the EPA and CARB (Californis Air Resources Board). I would guess getting this approval is a time consuming process.

    This would also seem to indicate that the EPA and CARB have now approved this upgrade for the '04 and '05 ES330, which has a different engine than the '02 and '03 ES300. (3.3L V6 vs 3.0L V6)

    My point being if this has just been approved for the newer engines, it might be a different upgrade than is being applied to the 02 and 03 models.

    (example, a security upgrade for Windows ME would be different than a security upgrade for Windows XP)

    Do we have owners of 02 or 03 Lexuses (Lexi?) that have had an improvement from this earlier upgrade? My memory seems to tell me most of the comments lately have been from 04 and 05 models. (My memory isn't perfect!)
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    kraftkraft Member Posts: 29
    Personally I think you guys are so anxious to be right about the hesitation thing that you believe anything that comes along to support what you are saying. You should be a little more careful.
    I do not trust any thing that Pittsburg newspaper guy writes. Half the time he doesn't know what he is talking about. I think he mostly writes what people feed him.
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    jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    kraft: I agree with you....there is a difference between a news article and an actual TOYOTA CORP. TSB.

    For the record, I own a 2005 Highlander V6 which doesn't seem to exhibit the hesitation. Perhaps, if one of the folks that own vehicles that hesitate were to drive mine, they might experience it. I dunno
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    You stated "I think he mostly writes what people feed him." Note that one of the people feeding him is Toyota spokesman Wade Hoyt:

    "The upgrades produce "incremental improvement in shift quality," spokesman Wade Hoyt said. The problem may still exist for some owners, and the company continues to work on other fixes, he added."
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    is the wording of TSB with regards the symptoms the TSB is supposed to fix.
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    kraftkraft Member Posts: 29
    "I think he mostly writes what people feed him."
    My mistake. I should have added "and then he puts his own spin on it."
    I still think the guy is out to lunch no matter wher he gets his information.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A good reporter doesn't pass on PR, he asks hard questions...I mean if he's really interested in getting to the bottom of a story.

    YOU GUYS have done a much better job with your own research right here than anything I've seen anywhere else on any media.
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    scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    You asked about the experiences of the 02/03 Lexus owners who received the upgrade. There is an Edmunds discussion forum titled: “Transmission Problems with Lexus ES-300?" which was started prior to the '03 fix and also has reports relating experiences with the fix. The experience seems variable. Some people who reported it being successful immediately following the fix report continuing problems later (see quote below). Some report that the fix was a failure from the beginning and some report success and don't seem to come back later to report again otherwise. You may want to just read through that forum.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef14656!make=Lexus&model=ES%20300&ed_makeind- - ex=.ef14656

    This post is from someone who was initially satisfied with the fix:
    #208 of 699 upgrade by wrd Nov 04, 2003 (10:19 pm)
    Reply

    My 02 has 22k miles and the "upgrade". Before the upgrade it had a shudder at about 40mph when accellerating. Annoying. After the upgrade the 1/2 and 2/3 shifts are very inconsistant. One time it shifts perfectly, the next time the 1/2 and 2/3 shifts take 2-3 seconds and sound and feel like a slipping clutch on a standard shift auotmobile. Also annoying and maybe dangerous. At highway speed there is a 3-4 second lack of response when asked to accelerate. I consider this definitly dangerous. It took over a year to get any satisfaction from Lexus. They at first admitted a problem and said a fix was due by July 03. In July they said there was no problem and no fix in development, the car was performing as designed. Shortly thereafter I became aware of the upgrade in this message board. My car was the first done by my dealership. They have since done all the 300's in their loaner fleet and their salesmens cars. So much for it being only a minority of customers affected. I have complained about the way it now shifts and the tech has driven it, noted the problems and told me that Lexus considers it fixed. There is nothing more that can be done. I called Lexus Customer Satisfaction and got the same propaganda. I have owned two LS400s. A 93 and now a 97. Both cars have in excess of 140k miles and shift perfectly all the time every time.I have also driven Yugos and Kias and they shift better than a ES300. Automatic transmissions have been around for over 50 years. There is no excuse for such bad performance. There is no excuse for the manufacurer of a luxury automobile stonewalling its customers like this. Our only hope for satisfaction is to get this problem into automotive publications and the newspapers. Hurt their sales until they cure the problem. By the way, I have driven several 03s and noticed a problem in EVERY one of them. I have also driven a brand new Acura TL and I prefer my ES300 to the Acura. If the shifting were fixed it would be a near perfect automobile. Almost as good as my 400.My apologies for ranting.
    -------------------

    One thing I have learned from reading the above forum postings -- this problem sure has been going on for a long time!
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    pilot130pilot130 Member Posts: 319
    Like Kraft said Scoti, you seem to want to grab whatever comes along that supports your position.
    This guy says he's had Yugos and they shift better than a Lexus.
    All the Yugos I ever saw had manual transmissions.
    I don't think they ever made an automatic transmission.
    The message I leave you with is the same as Kraft's.
    Be careful of what you glom onto here.

    Back on Topic.
    Looks like I stand corrected on my earlier post, which states:
    "Here's what we know for sure.
    1.The issue exists and is bothersome for some.
    2.Toyota/Lexus recognises its existence and has committed to fixing it.
    3.A remedy of some description has been identified by Toyota/Lexus.
    4.No one can state conclusively if it is a widespread phenomenon.
    5.No one can state conclusively how severe it is when it occurs; it apparently varies in duration, although the majority of reported incidents are "momentary" in nature.
    6.Other makes with 5 speed transmissions are reported to have similar characteristics.
    7.Toyota/Lexus seems to be the only automaker stepping up to the plate about it.
    8.No one can state conclusively it is or isn't a safety hazard, and no accidents or injuries have been reported."

    Looks like No.3 is still up for grabs.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    are you still sure of #7 then?
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    pilot130pilot130 Member Posts: 319
    Wwest, I don't think anyone can bank on anything for sure.
    Ain't no absolutes in life --but you of all people must know that.
    However, if you are aware of anything new re No.7, please let us know.
    Last I heard, Toyota was the only one to publicly acknowledge the issue, and publicly commit to fixing it. That qualifies as stepping up to the plate in my books.
    Not bad, considering how some feel about Toyota.
    Nevertheless, I am sure of all the rest.(1,2,4,5,6, and 8)
    That's all we know so far, at least as far as factual goes.

    And I'm willing to wager serious money that Lexus shifts better than Yugo.
    Any takers?
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    bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    I just got off the phone with a top notch shop foreman with a local Lexus dealer. Since I explained that I had once worked for the same owner (another franchise), he agreed to be candid with me in discussing the transmission issues with Lexus and Toyota. He said there was a fix (reprogram) for the older ES-300 models in 2003 " that seemed to satisfy about 50% of those owners." The new TSB is for the ES-330 model with the 3.3 engine. He has only done one reprogram so far, and has had no feedback from the owner.( I forgot to ask him if the new TSB is the same fix as the old one. He told me he has received "lots of complaints" about the DBW-5-speed set up with all the same issues we have discussed on this forum. As a matter of fact, he listed every one of the complaints we have discussed. For what it's worth, he agrees. I assume, when Toyota comes out with a TSB, it will be for the Solara or SE, both with the larger 3.3 engine. I don't know what will happen with a car like mine (a new 05 V6 XLE) that has the same problems. Now for the interesting part. He agreed to see me tomorrow and see if the scan will work on my car, and if we can get some kind of result. At this point he isn't sure if the codes will match, but he's willing to try. If you have any questions for me to ask him, now is the time to let me know. Wish me luck.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    First, the TSB date indicates that Toyota & Lexus have been well aware of the hesitation symptom for at least two years, allowing for a few months to get the original TSB written and certified. The wording of the TSB indicates that they were also aware of the EXACT NATURE of the symptom just as being described by those owners posting descriptions here at Edmunds and elsewhere.

    The Toyota representative speaking to the Post reporter undoubtedly knew the TSB DID NOT APPLY to most of the owners having complaints and so he carefully, craftilly, worded his statements such as to be misleading.

    Obviously he accomplished his goal, look at all the owners that got their hopes up over his misleading NEW, OLD NEWS, statement.

    So why is it that only the ES series has been addressed to date?

    Is it possible that the ES series had some margin, slack, in the EPA/CAFE/CARB overall performance that the shift pattern could be reprogrammed and still have the vehicle remain within the original certification parameters?

    Your guess??
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    pilot130pilot130 Member Posts: 319
    Wwest, you may be correct in the first part of your post, in that Toyota/Lexus was aware two years ago and issued a TSB.
    That was two years ago, and the TSB issued then applied to vehicles two years ago. Things have changed since then. I think you're technically astute enough to recognize and accept that.
    The rest of your post is, unfortunately, nothing but conjecture. I think you know that too.
    Particularly the part where you speculate what and why the Toyota rep intended in his alledgedly quoted statement..
    Furthermore, now knowing what a lousy journalist the Post Gazette guy is, how do we know anything he quotes is accurate---and more importantly, current?
    One could just as easily speculate that he was quoting something two years old.
    Conjecture, to be sure, but no less so than your remarks.
    Either way, that doofus doesn't have a whole lot of credibility IMO.

    My opinion in this issue? ( know you folks don't regard any opinion from me as relevant, but that's OK)
    Here's what I think:
    The problem, if you can call it that, (I call it a characteristic), may have more to do with the tranny valve section (plate) needing some tweaking as the ECM.
    Have you ever seen one? Do you know how they work? Do you know how complex they are--aspecially in 5 and 6 speed trannys? We did a vision inspection system for GM Transmission in Windsor, Ontario a couple of years ago.(4 Speed) There are still a couple of sample valve bodies kicking around in the shop from that project. I'll send you one if you want when I get back!!
    Comments?
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