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Comments
I think if I had to nit pick, the BMW X5 35 D gets the nod for most sports car like. The MB ML350 just barely edges out the VW Touareg ride wise. In terms of nice, the Touareg has just enough "cat" to it. It is VERY agile, but yet very plush. All attributes considered, the three (BMW X5 35D, MB ML350, VW Touareg, are very very close.
Mercedes ML350 Bluetec SE
Price: £tbc (circa £45k); Top speed: 139mph; 0-62mph: 7.4sec; Economy: 41.5mpg; Co2: 179g/km; Kerbweight: 2175kg; Engine type, cc: V6, 2987cc, turbodiesel; Installation: Front, longitudinal, four-wheel drive; Power: 255bhp at 3600rpm; Torque: 457lb ft at 1600-2400rpm; Gearbox: 7-spd automatic
It can put out 428 # ft of torque vs the TDI's @ 406 # ft.
So to always think of the Prius as the be all to end all use of hybrid technology might be a very narrow view. I have never heard a bells and whistles Toyota announcement but they had to beef up the puny gas engine to allow the hybrid settings to give them the 20% mpg boost.
It was mild surprise to find out the Touareg was assembled in Slovakia. There is no real data as to the Japanese vendor that builds or supplies the 8 speed automatic transmission.
Still, if the gas engine is lousy, may as well get the diesel...in fact that's yet another reason to do so.
Hypermiling, or all highway? Almost seems too good to be true.
I think for you, you believe that to be true. It appears you also think that under similar conditions, that you would not post similar numbers that I have gotten for any TDI.
PS
The two ML diesel owners I have encountered both loved the vehicle and neither one kept track of how many MPG.
I think your observations are probably more spot on than a lot of folks would like to admit. I think they just want to keep the illusion going that real mpg, really matters. It never has, still doesn't, and won't in the future. This has been true for at least 46 years that I have been acquainted with these issues.
It has to be a series of extreme embarrassments for the "global du jour climate change" religious faithful to be incorrect, to flat out lying about the topic.
When I was in college we were a slam dunk for global freezing and certain death due to massive crop failure, with massive die backs to the populations. China was one of THE 3rd world basket cases that deserved to be died back (Angel of Death had been issued its work order) . Gee a scant generation later, we are now globally warming instead of freezing . We grow more crops than we EVER have. The populations are bigger than ever. China now is one of the upcoming SUPER POWERS!!?? We were also supposed to be limited in natural resources. Somehow we discovered we are the beyond the middle east of natural gas, coal, AND oil. We are supposed to convert to solar and wind. The very same governments that mandate it, won't let us do it or make it economically untenable. It doesn't even make efficiency or cost sense without the same government doctoring the prices of natural gas coal and oil.
Gee did the 7 little leprechauns magically put these pots of gold into the earth under the USA with none of us knowing about it?
So getting back to the posting of my surprise mpg, the real utility here of a 26.6 gal tank would be a range of 936 miles. Swapping out 4 drivers that would be a heck of a cross country road trip !
I would say just to underline the lack of interest in posting mileage on the EPA site. The same goes here on Edmund's. Only a handful of owners of the newer Mercedes diesels have bothered to comment at all. It looks like 3 posters mentioned mileage, all were happy with the diesel engine. 24-25 MPG around town, 28 MPG at 80 MPH on the Highway. Last mention was over 5 years ago.
Which brings me to these conclusions. People that own diesel SUVs are happy with them and having too much fun out driving to spend time on Edmund's or the EPA site.
To me it just almost blows my mind to be able to go to 936 miles (Las Vegas and (pretty close to ) back @ Silicon Valley, CA) and not even have to fill !! You also got to love covered parking !! ?? Worst cases, I can fill near two outlet mall areas: one in CA (on the way to or from) and the other near Las Vegas ( on the way either to or from). The down side of course is it gives new meaning to the complaint that a tank of fuel costs SOOOOOO much now a days.
Yet again, I find myself in sparsely populated but great company (2003 Jetta TDI was one of 9,000 units or 4% of total US VW production) and absolutely the situations are AGAIN WONDERFUL.
I have been and am more than satisfied with the 2009 VW Jetta TDI, despite the less than one half of 1 percent HPFP issues and the well deserved old perception of poor VW dealership service. Other than washing the vehicle when I specifically asked them not to, service has been sterling. The IRS tax credit for alternative fuel/ clean diesel did not hurt at the time either. :P
Doing some background research, it seems the Touareg was redesigned in 2011. . As such, the 2011 total Touareg sales posted app 7,535 units. 2011 VW sales So the 2012 Touareg's are a tweaking and in some issues, part of the constant improvement programs. I for one love constant improvements. I have read that so far March 2012, sales are app 2,302. 2012 VW March Sales
In the grander scheme of things, (projected yearly 2012 car sales of 14.5 to 15.5 M) who cares what less than 10,000 folks have to say about a crossover SUV turbo diesel over 2 years? Who cares what 2302 people have to say about the 2012 Touareg? Let alone who cares about the (even smaller) subset 2012 VW Touareg TDI's? (.0001587% or certainly much LESS?) I would swag less than 30% are TDI or 691 units/ people !!!!! ?????(Geez, .0000476%)
Now, I would guess that VW really wants to keep the Touareg subset happier than clams. The TDI subset is even SMALLER!!!! So far while it is FAR too early to really tell, I am !
It is the height of arrogance for MB dealerships to charge what you are saying !!!
In the Touareg, it is find the container in the middle of the spare tire, pop the container's cap, pour in the product and stop so it does not over flow. Even I can do it !
There is lots of misinformation being spread by people who are scamming for publicity and money, but in fact global scientists are pretty united in their understanding of the problem.
I only mention this because all automakers, and in fact just about all industries, have climate change on their plate and will continue to respond to it as a real problem, both in terms of engineering AND politics.
If "follow the money" is good advice, then look to where global industry is placing their bets.
For me I am trying to do my part by cutting my CO2 in half with a high mileage SUV. The Feds are not making it easy.
The other side of this you can see, aka watching paint dry in a HUMID environment . In Detroit for example: To make a long store short, 144 sq miles of once vibrant and growing city was "policy ed out" to be gutted. So now app 44 sq miles are literally and figuratively DEAD. So the grand plan using Detroit ONLY as an example would be for ONLY 20 PLUS+ per acre will be built when new housing is called for.
So a more modern day example would be thinking of places like that as getting Tokyo 'ed. The ultimate irony is traffic congestion will be exponentially GREATER.
At Silver Star Motors in Long Island City, Queens, a Mercedes service adviser quoted me a price of $7 a quart for the emissions fluid, or $28 a gallon.
But retailers including AutoZone and Napa Auto Parts offer 2.5-gallon jugs of DEF for around $13, barely $5 a gallon, meaning that some dealers are marking up the fluid more than 600 percent over retail prices.
BMW, for its part, gives its diesel owners free urea fill-ups under its four-year, 50,000-mile scheduled service plan. Volkswagen covers refills for three years and 36,000 miles. For BMW, the plan would pay for four annual fill-ups. In contrast, a Mercedes dealer’s four premium pours would pluck roughly $900 to $1,200 from an owner’s pocket.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/a-lower-cost-filling-solution-for-the- -mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec/
Mercedes estimates a dead-heat 0-to-60 m.p.h. run of 7.3 seconds for either the gasoline or diesel model. That’s rather snappy performance for a vehicle that weighs more than 5,000 pounds.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/automobiles/autoreviews/a-solid-mercedes-luxur- y-option-with-many-options.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
When I say "makes more sense" I mean that from a marketing as well as a technical point of view.
Well domestic manufacturers are behind the curve for the same reason NASA can't go to the moon anymore.
No Germans :P
In addition, it is seemingly buttery smooth in shifting 8 speeds and seamlessly. I am finding that if one lets the A/T do the work with a modest degree of anticipation, it almost effortlessly aids in modulating the speed, for a lot less brake application. It does have the "manual" automatic shift GATE for that "tiptronic" option/experience. I currently use it to help in engine break in on the deceleration and up to 80% of redline rpm range.
No. The V-6 is a single turbo, chain driven TDI.
Something tells me I might have to buy the (Bentley's) technical manual/data just to keep up with the inner workings and realities of this mechanic and electrical symphony.
I think you could sell the american people a lot easier on paying for cleaner air, better MPG, and better roads than you could sell them on a moonbase.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQhNZENMG1o
Videotape machines? NAHHHH!
Digital Cameras? NAHHHHH!
Tablet computers? YEAH!!!
Small Turbo Diesels NAHHHHH!
700HP Muscle Cars! YEAH!!
A BMW 3-Series Competitor --- oh...um...we do need to get around to that....
That is 31+ MPG US combined. What 5500 lb 7 passenger SUV hybrid comes close to that kind of MPG? Plus tow a 7500 lb trailer. That should be showing up soon on our shores. For my tastes it is a bit too big. I am really leaning toward the ML350 Bluetec. About $20k less as well.
GL350 Bluetec
Now that I have seen the fulfillment, I am thinking now the next goal (hopefully much shorter in time till completion) is more like 35-45 mpg.
The SUV's are significant in the sense that the majority (75% of the passenger vehicle fleet) of mid to large cars to SUV's get WAY lower mpg, aka. 15 mpg to on a good day 20 mpg. So in theory, IF the majority of the larger car to SUV segments were to get better mpg, say from 15 mpg to 25 mpg or 67% better fuel mileage (40% savings), it is a larger percentage and volume savings that smaller cars doing the same (25% of the passenger vehicle fleet), as per Edmunds article on that subject.
All the mantra's and environmental wacko propaganda indicates that saving fuel and being less dependent on foreign oil, yada, yada, are the stated AND defacto goals.
Still is.
Indeed that has been the front burner question for at least 40 years.
..."Without a kick in the butt from environmentalists, the auto industry would be stuck in 1965. Emissions and fuel economy standards were the best thing that ever happened to the auto industry. "...
Indeed if the environmentalist truly had their way, the iconic hero would be a homeless person on the Streets of San Francisco, Seattle, you name it.
The advocations and the results are each from separate universes. You can see it in this very narrow topic diesel topic.
Which reminds me of the VW bus plastered with every environmental sticker ever printed driving down by the beach spewing black smoke. It was Nixon that started the EPA ball rolling not any of the Eco nuts that would have US live in caves or VW buses.
A good and rational discussion should always focus on the mainstream element of any point of view.
America always runs best when steered from the middle, I like to say.
The problem in this country is always the same---we don't look far enough ahead when we tackle problems. We aren't great planners, we are much better do-ers.
We are selling more PU Trucks and SUVs along with the high mileage vehicles. People would love to get better mileage in their PU truck or SUV, just not possible with ethanol laced gasoline. Diesel is the best answer to consumer needs and wants. Most people are clueless that the option exists. Unless they happen to be German vehicle fans.