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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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The MB 2.1 L twin turbo (TDI) really puts out a LOT of torque (#369 # ft) for its displacement. Mated to a seemingly bullet proof 7 speed A/T, it seemingly is a well engineered and executed drive train.
When I do drive it more like the VW 3.0 L (single turbo) TDI, the mpg seems pretty similar. So if driven 65 mph and less, it can be PLENTY fuel miserly. The key here is @ the lowest RPM @ the point slow enough to keep the AT in the highest gear without downshifting. This is the lowest rpm with max torque but slightly lower to almost lug. This is not optimum for the turbo and engine, but it will take many miles to possibly showing noticeable ill effects.
So if you want a write up for 63.7 mpg on an Audi A3 TDI ... https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/running-on-empty--how-we-drove-834--smelly--miles-on-an-audi-s-single-tank-171343427.html I can tell you from my personal best of 62 mpg that it is do able. (i did not go anywhere close to the ridiculous speeds recommended and executed.
In contrast, the VW's 2.0 L TDI engine is a single turbo posting 236# ft of torque. While we do like the DSG, AND it has performed flawlessly, it would need an upgrade IF VW were to soup UP the engines # ft of torque output.
BUT
My sense is the MB's 7 speed is a bit less stout, also (aka not build to handle 627 # ft of torque) MB has not come out with a technical data about component operations (they might have been I have no access to the information) , so this is a surmise on my part.
ULSD @ $3.79
RUG @ $ 3.35
PUG @ $ 3.55
I have been trying to avoid the various "circus type " traffic choke points with varying degrees of success, We have the Word Serious" going on. Parking for a 4 hour or so game ranges from $40.00 to $120 (I have been told) Ticket prices are absolutely unbelievable ! There are football games: 49 ners, Raiders, CAL, Stanford etc. , and the other goings on too numerous to mention.
San Francisco is absolutely a TRAFFIC ZOO, even without these "national" event venues. I am glad the 49 ners, Raiders are not playing @ home.
To boot, we got some real RAIN !
Here is an article about what some CHP officers do in their spare time. No doubt on the states dime. I am sure the unions will vigorously defend them. http://www.mercurynews.com/my-town/ci_26801529/chp-nude-photo-scandal-bay-area-chief-thanks?source=rss
Gives a whole new meaning to Hawaii 50's "BQQK em, Dano !
gas is under $3 at some locations in NH. diesel is plenty more.
to get the sweet-spot of 400 ft lbs of torque, it's less expensive and easier to find it with mandatory stickshift in gas-powered vehicle than with diesel...
Regarding those brave warriors, nothing will happen - combine the blue wall with entitled fratboy mentality. For all of the whiners who moan about industrial unions, the Praetorian ones need attention much more.
Indeed, that should be pretty obvious and comes with a 95% gasser and less than 5% diesel PVF, with diesel passenger cars being less than 2.5% !! ?? Mine (gasser with app 400 # ft of torque) is app 14 years old. I do wish it had a 7 speed MT !!
Indeed the 2003 Jetta TDI has a whopping 155 # ft. The EPA (or whomever @ the time) thought the European version @ 177# ft was WAY too "powerful. " We thought mods putting out 300 # ft were @ the wires edge of grenading.
So it is good to see more TDI models, with stout torque postings coming to market.
There is a HUGE glut right now ! They almost have run out of STORAGE for the refined products. They can't ship crude to refineries, which are already operating @ 98% capacity.
But @ the same time it would be great to have ULSD @ $1.85 per gal (dreaming to delusionary ) !!! ???? That would GREATLY lower the CPMD: FUEL (/33/37/41/50 mpg)
That was for propane.
Diesel is $3.49 at the cheapest place in town.
It also takes some wind out of Russia's and the various oil nations sails that HATE the USA. It also doesn't hurt that the price of oil is FIXED in US $$'s
We can not even guess which fuel this "talking head" thinks is a beneficiary @ $75. oil !! ??? (Hint: The Toyota Prius comes in @ #20 in fuel efficiency.)
http://finance.yahoo.com/video/75-oil-winners-losers-203700846.html
Mostly GASSERS on this "hit" list. But the Jeep Grand Cherokee TDI fuel system is the nexus for this thread.
Here is a more direct diesel tangent : 16 Nissan TITAN, Cummins Sequential Turbo diesel !! V8 5.0 L 300 + hp/500 # ft torque. (I'd love to see a V8 TDI with a 7 speed MT in a Corvette !! )
http://blog.caranddriver.com/next-gen-nissan-titan-destined-for-detroit-we-detail-its-clever-new-diesel-engine/
He should have said the Jeep GC diesel is also new with their fuel delivery problems. Glad they were so slow getting them to market. It may have been me with working out their bugs.
Just got my 20k mile service yesterday. Actually only have 18,770 trouble free miles. Still no upgrade on the NAV from that stinking NavTeq. Did not have Costco in Roseburg, OR. Store opened in 2010. If there was any alternative to the NavTeq maps I would go for it. I just don't trust their routing or database. When I tried to put in Stockton CA it did not exist. I had the address of the Shell with the best price on diesel. It did not recognize the Zipcode for Stockton. How they have gotten into so many vehicles is amazing to me.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Well, Stockton IS having financial problems....
I dodged a bullet in the MB 250 B/T, as it is WIRED for its' navigation system (a subsequent buyer can add it easily and simply, albeit cheaply: on the used market to expensively NEW from the dealer). It is poorly rated by almost all users.
If I read your post correctly the VW T TDI's navigation is considered less than satisfactory.
AMG, for instance, has pretty much stated outright that they will never build an AMG diesel car.
As for Chrysler, their VP of quality control has just been shown the door.
ULSD @ Stockton's Safeway @ $3.65.
I also am planning to keep the VW T TDI WAY past the approaching 49,000 miles it now has.The shorter term goal is the "major tune" @ 120,000 miles, when in addition, some belt changes are due along with the oil and oil, air and cabin, fuel filters .
Kind of off topic, but I am reading that a lot of GASSERS consume oil @ a rate that I would find annoying to unacceptable (1 QT/L per 1,000 miles) !!!! This is especially true after the (4) diesels' experiences of app 1/4 to 1/2 QT/L per 30,000 miles !! On an A/B comparison basis, that would be up to 30 qts/L vs .5 QY/L !!! ???
One example is a class action lawsuit against Subaru, the Forester being one example.
Let me put it in perspective. IF reversed, gasser CONVERTS or diesel haters would VILIFY this "excessive" consumption rate/s !!!! @ those rates over 30,000 miles the GASSER consumption rate can be as high as 60 TIMES MORE !!!!!!! Of course because most folks use gassers, it is seen as "normal". AKA advantage DIESEL. So in effect, it raises no issues nor many hackles.
For ANOTHER example, (IF) it is true (higher oil consumption rate) with gasser turbo's , not a significant percentage of the gasser vehicle fleet.
So again, this is not even to factor in costs (EXTRA) .
http://www.bestcovery.com/best-synthetic-oil?sem=3884548238cwbing&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=subaru oil consumption problems&utm_campaign=bing_sem
So for example, IF one uses synthetic oils 30 qt/l @ $10 per qt= UP TO $300 EXTRA per 30,000 miles !!!! So over 120,000 miles, that would be $1,200 MORE for GASSERS: extra CONSUMPTION.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/10848/20140723/subaru-excess-oil-consumption-problem-may-lead-to-engine-failure-lawsuit.htm
She might be ready to return to VW after her unhappy 2000 New Beetle experience.
So the VW NB is GREAT if one gets one that is GREAT to not a lemon. One might to will tell 3 people if it is good.. IF one gets a bad one, one tells 10+ folks how bad it is.
Now despite me buying DIESEL VW's, VW in the past has a well earned SPOTTY reputation on GASSERS. They have made great strides. But then, when one gets a good one, its can be pretty good. I do not track how good the gasser VW's (% lemons) are or are not.
I might have an outlier attitude in that my almost totally horrid 1985 Toyota Camry experiences ( on the oil issue it did DRINK and SLUDGE oil despite dealer 3,000 miles oil changes) did NOT prevent me from buying 5 later/more Toyota's, aka, not another Camry. Yes I did run 15,000 to 25,000 OCI's ( on those 5 TLC's) for roughly 800,000 miles. The mechanics freak , IF and when they ask me what OCI regiment I follow/ed (given the innards are almost surgically CLEAN and most need no to little valve adjustments) . The jaws drop when I tell em I use $2.50 FRAM (PH8A) oil filters. So just with these 5 (TLC's) miles and app 334,000 diesel miles, I have many more gasser miles under the belt than DIESEL's.
I've had it both ways: My 2010 Forester will generally run 10,000+ miles on its OCI without needing to add any oil (up to 1 qt low), but my 1996 Outback required a quart with every oil change. BUT, that was oil leaking OUT of the engine, not headed through the tail pipe. The other two Subies weren't in my driveway long enough to find out their behaviors, but suffice it to say that I did not add any oil to either of them, so that puts them both at the 5,000+ mark per quart.
I'm curious as to how fuel type could affect engine behavior in terms of oil consumption. Perhaps higher compression requirements lead to tighter tolerances, which means less room for oil to slip through?
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Oh, and stop it already with posting about your GLK250's performance! I'm trying to put that vehicle out of my mind. So inconsiderate....
Diesel engines have to be REALLY tight or yeah, they'll burn oil and/or exhibit blow-by. Fortunately, they are generally built to a higher standard to account for the extreme high compression they utilize.
This is why I always advise people shopping for a used diesel to notice how quickly it starts up when cold. On a tight diesel engine, it should start up almost instantly. Any diesel engine that cranks and cranks is suspect.
I'll never forget him saying that he wanted to support American businesses since he owned a small manufacturing business himself. Fast forward 8 years and he dumped it for an Infiniti and I'll never forget him saying he will never own another Cadillac again.
I had a 1948 Caddy flathead V8 that used almost as much oil as gas. I carried a 2.5 gallon can of RayLube in the trunk. At least a quart every couple hundred miles. Most of my driving was back and forth to school. Got it at the salvage yard when I worked there. Cannot remember what I traded it for. It was a big old 4 door boat. Pretty comfy compared to my 47 Pontiac convertible with no top. This was about 1959-60.
Diesel dropped a dime here to $3.39, at least at one station.
SIDEBAR: In theory, it is not supposed to be run up to 1 qt/L over filled. But I have never heard of a 1 qt/L over filled engine failing due to that.
I would then agree and state the (other) absolutely obvious thing (yes I have a FLAIR for it ). IT was made to RUN @ that (up to 1 qt/l per 1,000 mile) CONSUMPTION rate, aka, normally (according to the particular oems subscription to the concept that up to 1 QT/L consumption is "normal").
After running 4 diesels both I4's (3) and V6 (1) with various miles and mpg's; with oil consumption rates of between 1/4 to 1/2 qt/L per 30,000 miles, I am increasingly thinking that (gasser) consumption rate (as much as 1qt/L per 1,000 miles) is unacceptable or more costly (than diesels) @ best. One graphic might be (over 100,000 miles) 100 qt/l vs 1.67 q/l !!! My VERY short term goal is 200,000 miles or the SECOND 100,000/120,000 miles cycle ($885 x2= $1,770).
@ $9 per qt/l (synthetic) that is $900 vs $15.
For those inclined to TMI
$885. @ today's ULSD prices ($3.69) will buy me 240 gals of fuel. @ 32, 36, 41, 50 mpg's: 7,680, 8,640, 9,840, 12,000 miles. (again over 100,000 miles)
So this is ADVANTAGE diesel , or chips away @ the diesel price premium and preserves to does nothing to the normally higher diesel resale prices. In the 03 Jetta TDI vs 1.8T Jetta case, app 39% MORE ($1,240 MORE, premium @ the time being $236.). than the gasser turbo.
Needless to say, I hope folks do not think that I am saying diesels do not consume oil, nor made to NOT consume oil.
What does this sign mean?
Toyota: 'No One Wants Us To Build Electric Cars'
Green Car Reports By John Voelcker
October 31, 2014 11:13 AM
Here is another take on low fuel prices on hybrid sales.
http://green.autoblog.com/2014/11/01/lesson-learned-again-lower-gas-prices-hurt-hybrid-sales/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000588
The demand for EVs is a much slimmer segment of the market than demand for diesels.
Toyota's gotta be getting hit by the cheap gas in some ways. I suppose Highlander sales will boom but the Prius payback period is now an additional 18 months thanks to cheap gas. Lots of incentives on them now.
VW sales fell again (well, predicted to fall - actual numbers aren't out I don't think), so maybe they'll be some good incentives on their TDIs.
I also think ( my .02 cents) the lack of growth of the diesel PVF population shows the lack of seriousness of goal of American energy independence. So the closer to 25% diesels for the PVF AND GROWTH (percentage) of other alternative fuels (hydrogen battery, battery electric, etc,) will be the real OPERATIVE and deficit gauge !! Till then, its just hot air. Most still do not understand the role of the fact that it is widely unknown that it is STILL AGAINST the law to export American crude (there are of course loopholes and specific exemptions.)
$2.69 reg
$3.63 diesel
I believe that is the largest spread I have ever seen between RUG and diesel.
Hmm, thinking a little harder, no it isn't. What year was it that gasoline peaked at $4 a gallon ($5 in California)? I was driving a Ford F250, diesel, and I actually saw price spreads as high as $1.10.