What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

Shell: corner store prices (Gasbuddy)

ULSD $ 3.69

PUG $3.43

MGUG $ 3.33

RUG $ 3.23

gagrice

stever said:

I think some (many?) consumers still want them - the ones pressuring Toyota are probably the oil barons.

Toyota's gotta be getting hit by the cheap gas in some ways. I suppose Highlander sales will boom but the Prius payback period is now an additional 18 months thanks to cheap gas. Lots of incentives on them now.

VW sales fell again (well, predicted to fall - actual numbers aren't out I don't think), so maybe they'll be some good incentives on their TDIs.

While getting my Free service at VW, I looked around their lot. I only saw one Passat TDI. When I asked about a new Beetle TDI the salesman tried dissuading from diesel to their marvelous gas model. hmmmmm, I am thinking VW corporate is only sending the dealers a very limited number of diesels. Also they are really kicking up the price difference. The MSRP on the Beetle TDI is about $5k over the 1.8L gas Beetle. That is a far cry from the $200 premium in 2005 when I bought my Passat TDI Wagon. It looks to me like VW is not that interested in the discount market in the USA. Why sell a discounted car in the USA, when you get top dollar in most of the World. Audi seems to be a better place for VW to sell their diesel cars.

stever

Too bad. VW just seems off message in lots of ways.

gagrice

stever said:

Too bad. VW just seems off message in lots of ways.

I'm not so sure, they are still the most profitable automaker in the World. In one of Rocky's rants about how great life is for people in Denmark, I did a little research. A VW Golf 1.4L gas sells for $41k. I just don't think the USA is a lucrative market on the low end. All the lux brands are doing great here. All the good ones are offering more and more diesel models.

Michaell

gagrice said:

stever said:

Too bad. VW just seems off message in lots of ways.

I'm not so sure, they are still the most profitable automaker in the World. In one of Rocky's rants about how great life is for people in Denmark, I did a little research. A VW Golf 1.4L gas sells for $41k. I just don't think the USA is a lucrative market on the low end. All the lux brands are doing great here. All the good ones are offering more and more diesel models.

Right, but I'll take a guess that the $41K includes the VAT of, what, 15-25%? Still, $30K plus is a lot of money for a base Golf.

stever

Looks like their average salary is third highest in the EU (not counting the little "city-states"), and higher than the US average. That's accounting for currency conversions and other such "nebulous" factors.

Just funny that you drove in with a diesel and the salesperson was acting like you didn't want one.

ruking1

Michaell said:

gagrice said:

stever said:

Too bad. VW just seems off message in lots of ways.

I'm not so sure, they are still the most profitable automaker in the World. In one of Rocky's rants about how great life is for people in Denmark, I did a little research. A VW Golf 1.4L gas sells for $41k. I just don't think the USA is a lucrative market on the low end. All the lux brands are doing great here. All the good ones are offering more and more diesel models.

Right, but I'll take a guess that the $41K includes the VAT of, what, 15-25%? Still, $30K plus is a lot of money for a base Golf.

It is easy to see the four advantages of diesels in the US 1. "LIKE model "cars in US @ much lower prices 2. way less taxation 3. cheaper fuel prices 4. cheaper cpmd ( cost per mile driven) fuel.

While it is not notable or noticeable, up to 80% + of cars are stick shift, both cheaper than A/T AND with even better mpg. Keep in mind also the average yearly mileage is 9,000 miles vs 12,000 to 15,000 miles in the US.

There is also another figurative and LITERAL game CHANGING technology (literally one of many) , where INSTEAD of pulling barrels of oil out of the earth (with all its political to logistical chains) and from distant and almost inaccessible and inhospitable places for REFINERY processing ; the new process is able to reconfigure molecules with access only to applicable chemistries and natural gas in a commercial/industrial space with app a 9 ft x 12 ft concrete pad space. (I had posted the link in an earlier post). The prototype (making both RUG/PUG and diesel and commercially viable ethylene) is in an industrial space, some place in Hayward, CA. So if you have ever been to a modern refinery, this scale of differences is almost mind numbing. (inverse Carl Sagan scales)

Keep in mind also that Denmark's source of income, not to mention EXTREME socialists policies are built on Denmark's easily accessible oil reserves. While it is known they benefit from high oil prices, they are not like SA. which has said they need $50 per BOE to maintain their socialistic policies and terrorist support endeavors.

fintail

That's all tax. When everything is that socialized, you end up with a lot less of the social ills seen in most places on this side of the pond, not to mention quality of life issues.

I think Rocky pined about Norway, he had heritage from there. Even more oil money there, too.

gagrice said:

I'm not so sure, they are still the most profitable automaker in the World. In one of Rocky's rants about how great life is for people in Denmark, I did a little research. A VW Golf 1.4L gas sells for $41k. I just don't think the USA is a lucrative market on the low end. All the lux brands are doing great here. All the good ones are offering more and more diesel models.

ruking1

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_26856830/hyundai-kia-will-pay-100-million-overstating-fuel

This is becoming all too common for gasser mpg OVER statement !! ??

Hyundai, Kia will pay $100 million for overstating fuel economy claims
By Jerry Hirsch Los Angeles Times

On the other hand, here is a take on falling oil prices !

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-spikes-reversing-losses-saudi-194921652.html

gagrice

fintail said:

That's all tax. When everything is that socialized, you end up with a lot less of the social ills seen in most places on this side of the pond, not to mention quality of life issues.

I think Rocky pined about Norway, he had heritage from there. Even more oil money there, too.

gagrice said:

Rocky is all over the board on EU being utopia. It was Denmark last week because of their high MW, which I had to pop his bubble on. They have COL second to none. Owning a car in Denmark is not for the MW crowd. They have 180% tax on cars. Not to mention $7.40 gas. Having the highest MW does not translate into being able to own a car or a home. Buying a $4.99 Mcdonald's Combo in Denmark is $10.93.

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2012/10/danish-180-tax-on-cars-is-rather.html

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Denmark&city=Copenhagen

fintail

Owning a car isn't desired by European city dwellers, who live in places designed and planned before cars existed - they commute via the best transit in the world, and rent cars for road trips. People there also aren't caught up in the ownership masquerade - they don't get the huge deductions and incentives which are defacto aids to the FIRE cabal, they happily rent and invest money and eat out and go on holidays and enjoy life. McDonalds isn't for anyone of discerning tastes or forethought, who cares? Also less fat people there, think about it.

Compare those prices with Seattle on that numbeo site - the socialist utopia isn't terribly more expensive, and many quality of life issues go beyond consumer prices. Check any kind of "happiness" style index.

gagrice said:

Rocky is all over the board on EU being utopia. It was Denmark last week because of their high MW, which I had to pop his bubble on. They have COL second to none. Owning a car in Denmark is not for the MW crowd. They have 180% tax on cars. Not to mention $7.40 gas. Having the highest MW does not translate into being able to own a car or a home. Buying a $4.99 Mcdonald's Combo in Denmark is $10.93.

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2012/10/danish-180-tax-on-cars-is-rather.html

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Denmark&city=Copenhagen

nyccarguy

I really think VW would do better if it offered some of its TDI cars with 4Motion AWD. Here in the northeast, AWD sells. I'm living proof that VW lost a sale due to the fact it didn't offer AWD. I drove the Passat TDI & really liked it a lot. If AWD was offered, I'd probably have never even set foot in the Subaru dealer. But it isn't, & now I drive a gasser Subaru.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

I really think VW would do better if it offered some of its TDI cars with 4Motion AWD. Here in the northeast, AWD sells. I'm living proof that VW lost a sale due to the fact it didn't offer AWD. I drove the Passat TDI & really liked it a lot. If AWD was offered, I'd probably have never even set foot in the Subaru dealer. But it isn't, & now I drive a gasser Subaru.

I've heard that the next Golf Estate will come with 4Motion. And TDI? Don't see why not.

Get it in brown with a manual transmission and you'll sell a bajillion of them - at least, based on the comments one reads on most automotive forums.

ruking1

nyccarguy said:

I really think VW would do better if it offered some of its TDI cars with 4Motion AWD. Here in the northeast, AWD sells. I'm living proof that VW lost a sale due to the fact it didn't offer AWD. I drove the Passat TDI & really liked it a lot. If AWD was offered, I'd probably have never even set foot in the Subaru dealer. But it isn't, & now I drive a gasser Subaru.

Indeed ! I think in terms of trying to be all things to all people, (the 4wd in the segment you are looking @ ) might fall under too many fish frying @ the same time: albeit, 1. world stage 2. profit while 3. trying to catch #1 Toyota world wide ( additionally while GROWING profit) . 4. cost cutting: i.e., platform standardization.

Here is one take and links to a few others.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-q3-profits-jump-56-percent-113135053--finance.html

..."This environment is dominated by political and economic uncertainty and demands maximum flexibility and financial strength on our part," he added."...

Funny also how things work. I have two 4WD/4 motion/AWD (VW/MB) TDI's and really didn't CARE. Yet, NO AWD was a deal breaker for you. @ the same time, great opportunities continue (13 yrs) in the product line, specifically TDI's.

WAY off topic, how is that CVT working out for you?

RBOB gas is app 2.06 per gal,. with BOE @ $76.66,. heating oil 2.42.

ruking1

Is this a coincidence that the LOWEST gas prices are hitting the streets for "mid term" ELECTIONS?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/11/04/why-americans-dont-trust-gas-lower-gas-prices/?hpid=z9

Even the Washington Post (D.C.) sez: ... GET OVER IT !!

AND here I was hoping for $1.85 per gal of ULSD.

Recall Rankings: 10 Automakers Leading the Industry This Year
ERIC SCHAAL | MORE ARTICLES
NOVEMBER 04, 2014

NOT many diesels on this list !!

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobiles/10-automakers-with-the-most-vehicle-recalls-in-a-record-2014.html/?ref=YF

fintail

I remember prices crashing right before the 08 election, after the big run up late that summer. In 12, I was in Europe during the election, wish I was there again, in a diesel car

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:

I really think VW would do better if it offered some of its TDI cars with 4Motion AWD. Here in the northeast, AWD sells. I'm living proof that VW lost a sale due to the fact it didn't offer AWD. I drove the Passat TDI & really liked it a lot. If AWD was offered, I'd probably have never even set foot in the Subaru dealer. But it isn't, & now I drive a gasser Subaru.

I've heard that the next Golf Estate will come with 4Motion. And TDI? Don't see why not.

Get it in brown with a manual transmission and you'll sell a bajillion of them - at least, based on the comments one reads on most automotive forums.

Ha! That and an ///M3 Touring with cloth seats, crank windows, & no sunroof;)

stever

"Consumer education from auto manufacturers may have already played a role in changing perceptions. Today, more than 4 in 10 (41%) new car buyers say that they would consider purchasing a diesel vehicle, a considerable increase from 31% who said so just a year ago, according to the study.

Central to diesel fuels’ success will be attracting female customers, who make 73% of all car buying decisions in the country, according to cars.com. In this respect, there has been considerable progress: the percentage of female consumers who said that they were likely to consider purchasing a diesel vehicle rose from 26% to 32% over the past year."

The real upshot of the article is that it's all about the money.

Diesel Vehicle Sales Forecasts Are Strong — But Are Consumers Ready? (nacsonline.com)

nyccarguy

ruking1 said:

nyccarguy said:

I really think VW would do better if it offered some of its TDI cars with 4Motion AWD. Here in the northeast, AWD sells. I'm living proof that VW lost a sale due to the fact it didn't offer AWD. I drove the Passat TDI & really liked it a lot. If AWD was offered, I'd probably have never even set foot in the Subaru dealer. But it isn't, & now I drive a gasser Subaru.

Indeed ! I think in terms of trying to be all things to all people, (the 4wd in the segment you are looking @ ) might fall under too many fish frying @ the same time: albeit, 1. world stage 2. profit while 3. trying to catch #1 Toyota world wide ( additionally while GROWING profit) . 4. cost cutting: i.e., platform standardization.

Here is one take and links to a few others.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-q3-profits-jump-56-percent-113135053--finance.html

..."This environment is dominated by political and economic uncertainty and demands maximum flexibility and financial strength on our part," he added."...

Funny also how things work. I have two 4WD/4 motion/AWD (VW/MB) TDI's and really didn't CARE. Yet, NO AWD was a deal breaker for you. @ the same time, great opportunities continue (13 yrs) in the product line, specifically TDI's.

WAY off topic, how is that CVT working out for you?

RBOB gas is app 2.06 per gal,. with BOE @ $76.66,. heating oil 2.42.

I'm happy with the CVT so far with about 2,100 miles on the car. It is definitely more responsive than a traditional automatic and makes the most of my Legacy's 175 horsepower. It drives like it is always in "the right gear," even though there are no gears. Hit the gas pedal to pass, & the revs just keep rising until you let up. At 70 mph, the car loafs along at 1,900 - 2,000 RPM.

ruking1

What kind of mpg are you posting, overall and @ 1,900-2,000 @ 70 mpg ? I am assuming you have the 4 cylinder.

I am glad you are liking both the car and the CVT.

The 3.6 L 6 cylinder Subaru Legacy has slightly greater torque ( 11 # ft, 247/236 # ft) than the Passat's 2.0 L 4 cylinder TDI , but with a "gassers" mpg H EPA: 28 vs 42 mpg, or Passat for similar torque, posts 50% better mpg.

It is anyones guess what an AWD option would knock off Passat's 42 mpg IF and when offered.

xwesx

I'd sure like to see AWD come back to their cars. Of course, I'm sure that will come with the caveat of no available MT on that version, but it would open up options for buyers, for sure.

ruking1

xwesx said:

I'd sure like to see AWD come back to their cars. Of course, I'm sure that will come with the caveat of no available MT on that version, but it would open up options for buyers, for sure.

According to edmunds.com scans (diesels w AWD) , http://www.edmunds.com/finder/car-finder-results.html#!new/type:Diesel;features:AWD/4WD;/baseMsrp:asc/15
there are 17/18 AWD models for model years 14/15 (UP from 10 in 13 MY) . On a quick and dirty scan of the scans, it would appear the AWD option is a "budget" buster; aka it is included on much higher price points vehicles. When other "MUST HAVES" are added.....

So my guess is that even if the oems did it they probably don't think it is worth the risks, let alone the extra costs and having to sell remaining units, sitting in inventory too long to not selling.

xwesx

The "niche within a niche" conundrum!

Yeah, all the models listed there are serious $$$. The quantity is somewhat deceptive, as well, given how some of the same models show up multiple times on that particular link along with some unrelated "sponsored" vehicles. But, at least there are options. Perhaps it is a good thing that the diesel market is expanding so slowly - it gives me time to just be content with what I have.

ruking1

xwesx said:

The "niche within a niche" conundrum!

Yeah, all the models listed there are serious $$$. The quantity is somewhat deceptive, as well, given how some of the same models show up multiple times on that particular link along with some unrelated "sponsored" vehicles. But, at least there are options. Perhaps it is a good thing that the diesel market is expanding so slowly - it gives me time to just be content with what I have.

Indeed, it is a niche within a niche. The Subaru Legacy is another niche within a niche, albeit GASSER.

I think really that is key ! I get "TMI" for that very reason. I even detailed the (my) HPFP episode (09 Jetta TDI) , which by any measure is a "WART." Now, VW stepped up under the "goodwill column".

It is a no brainer to say most folks (95% gassers) are skeptical @ best. with 5% diesels. Of 5% diesels, less than 2.5% of the pvf are diesel CARS. Switch? It is probably like: not a chance (in H---).

So being on the "DARK SIDE" (diesel), it would be very hard to get me to buy a "LIKE model" gasser. For the RANGE of environments and conditions I find myself driving, turbo and TWIN turbo DIESELS seem BETTER adapted to the US conditions.

nyccarguy

ruking1 said:

What kind of mpg are you posting, overall and @ 1,900-2,000 @ 70 mpg ? I am assuming you have the 4 cylinder.

I am glad you are liking both the car and the CVT.

The 3.6 L 6 cylinder Subaru Legacy has slightly greater torque ( 11 # ft, 247/236 # ft) than the Passat's 2.0 L 4 cylinder TDI , but with a "gassers" mpg H EPA: 28 vs 42 mpg, or Passat for similar torque, posts 50% better mpg.

It is anyones guess what an AWD option would knock off Passat's 42 mpg IF and when offered.

You are correct, I do have the 4 cylinder. With just over 2,200 miles on the odometer, I'm averaging 27.6 mpg (according to my fuelly dashboard). $.121 per mile to drive. My best tank so far has been 28.3 mpg. The Legacy has a generously sized 18.5 gallon tank. Max range is 522.7 (guess how I found out). It runs on RUG.

Now I filled up one night, jumped right on the highway, paid a toll, and set the cruise at 65. OBC (which seems generous) readout was 37.5 mpg.

From what I've read, the 6 Cyl Legacy is faster than my 4cyl, but far from a road rocket. It is supposedly smoother.

My former 2011 BMW 328xi which sucked down PUG (Inline 6/6 speed automatic) averaged 21.5 mpg.

Now I am driving a bit differently. The Legacy is a comfortable and solid commuter rig. The BMW just BEGS to be driven hard. I used to set the cruise at 75 to keep myself from going any faster. I spent the 1st 1000 miles or so breaking in the Legacy's motor nicely. I'm setting the cruise at 70 in some spots and 65 in others. That alone has saved me at least 1 speeding ticket. I passed an NYPD Highway 1 HEMI powered Charger a few weeks ago where I've never seen one before. I would have easily blew by him at 75 + if I were in the BMW (Speed limit on the highway in NYC is 50 mph). I've seen a lot of stepped up patrolling for speeders in both NY (where I work) & in CT (where I live). The speed limits on the highways I drive are 55, 50, & 45.

ruking1

fintail said:

I remember prices crashing right before the 08 election, after the big run up late that summer. In 12, I was in Europe during the election, wish I was there again, in a diesel car

Ah, ANOTHER coincidence !! ?? Imagine that !!!

ruking1

nyccarguy said:

ruking1 said:

What kind of mpg are you posting, overall and @ 1,900-2,000 @ 70 mpg ? I am assuming you have the 4 cylinder.

I am glad you are liking both the car and the CVT.

The 3.6 L 6 cylinder Subaru Legacy has slightly greater torque ( 11 # ft, 247/236 # ft) than the Passat's 2.0 L 4 cylinder TDI , but with a "gassers" mpg H EPA: 28 vs 42 mpg, or Passat for similar torque, posts 50% better mpg.

It is anyones guess what an AWD option would knock off Passat's 42 mpg IF and when offered.

You are correct, I do have the 4 cylinder. With just over 2,200 miles on the odometer, I'm averaging 27.6 mpg (according to my fuelly dashboard). $.121 per mile to drive. My best tank so far has been 28.3 mpg. The Legacy has a generously sized 18.5 gallon tank. Max range is 522.7 (guess how I found out). It runs on RUG.

Now I filled up one night, jumped right on the highway, paid a toll, and set the cruise at 65. OBC (which seems generous) readout was 37.5 mpg.

From what I've read, the 6 Cyl Legacy is faster than my 4cyl, but far from a road rocket. It is supposedly smoother.

My former 2011 BMW 328xi which sucked down PUG (Inline 6/6 speed automatic) averaged 21.5 mpg.

Now I am driving a bit differently. The Legacy is a comfortable and solid commuter rig. The BMW just BEGS to be driven hard. I used to set the cruise at 75 to keep myself from going any faster. I spent the 1st 1000 miles or so breaking in the Legacy's motor nicely. I'm setting the cruise at 70 in some spots and 65 in others. That alone has saved me at least 1 speeding ticket. I passed an NYPD Highway 1 HEMI powered Charger a few weeks ago where I've never seen one before. I would have easily blew by him at 75 + if I were in the BMW (Speed limit on the highway in NYC is 50 mph). I've seen a lot of stepped up patrolling for speeders in both NY (where I work) & in CT (where I live). The speed limits on the highways I drive are 55, 50, & 45.

I am thinking just the tires alone will save you a HEAP of money. I am hoping to get 90,000-95,000 miles from the 09 Jetta TDI's oem Bridgestones, which is a let down from 113,500 miles from the 03 Jetta TDI. I have heard a BMW might get 30,000 to 50,000 miles and are easily 2x $$'s what your new replacements will cost.

ruking1

Slow news day on the left coast. ULSD prices have moved down glacially.

After an oil change in the MB GLK 250 with (dealer provided) M1 ESP Formula M 5w40 (MB 229.51 specification ), I read on the M1 web site http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/car_care/which_oil/WhichOilManualResults.aspx?option=2
that the new recommendation is a 0w30 brew, M1 ESP X1 0w30 (latest specification of MB 229.52).

Older news is that M1 also says the ESP 5w30 can also be used where MB recommends 5w40. (MB 229.51) As soon as the ESP's 5w30/5w40's sells out the new M1 ESP x1 ZERO w30 will be the new go to M1 recommendation. I am guessing the lower viscosity and range should result in better MPG. (yup you guys are probably rolling your eyes ) At this time I do not know if the lower viscosity protects any better or worse (wear metals per 1,000 miles) than the MB recommended 5w40 M formula.

nyccarguy

@ruking1‌

I had NO IDEA tires could last nearly that long.

cdnpinhead

It's all part of the magic that goes on here.

Mr_Shiftright

Interesting thing about that study---when you break it down into gender and age, it turns out that the high percentage of potential diesel buyers are men over 50. Women prefer hybrids 3 to 1 over diesel.

ruking1

nyccarguy said:

@ruking1‌

I had NO IDEA tires could last nearly that long.

All I try to do is stay within the parameters of the diesel's H rated tires and don't go over the 130 mph capability ( ).

More seriously, that H rating seems to be the best engineered tire selection for our roads. So first and foremost, it FLOWS from the engineering. To most, this is TOTAL TMI. I also try to put as many things, factors, advantages on the side of maximizing tire wear.

fintail

Visit an American diesel pump.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Interesting thing about that study---when you break it down into gender and age, it turns out that the high percentage of potential diesel buyers are men over 50. Women prefer hybrids 3 to 1 over diesel.

Mr_Shiftright

which I presume will confirm this?

ruking1

For the percentage of women that buy cars AND hybrid cars (I understand it is a higher percentage now a days than men), it would seem Toyota needs to sell a much higher percentage of their hybrids???? So while the 3 to 1 might be true, there seems to be something amiss with the conversion factor. I have read in passing the % of hybrids is even LESS than diesels @ less than 2 to 2.5%. even after 12 MY's. So even if the oems know the REAL percentages and who buys what, they are not sharing those figures with folks like us.

Mr_Shiftright

That ratio was from the Fuel Institute report.

I see that the Porsche Cayenne for 2015 will continue the diesel, but oddly, it's their "entry-level" Cayenne. So they must be really packing the options into the new V6 turbo and the top o the line V8 Turbo.

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

That ratio was from the Fuel Institute report.

I see that the Porsche Cayenne for 2015 will continue the diesel, but oddly, it's their "entry-level" Cayenne. So they must be really packing the options into the new V6 turbo and the top o the line V8 Turbo.

OK. Those facts do not seem to change any of the hybrid numbers.

IF I were a Porsche brand diesel shopper, I would be glad for that "entry-level". TMI are Porsche TDI's are assembled on the same line as the VW Touareg TDI's. While the VW Touareg's line is probably"profitable," the Porsche Cayenne's are significantly more so. Indeed it is the most profitable Porsche product, albeit, TDI's being a minority portion.

SLOW news diesel day ! It must be a VERY heavy Saturday morning enforcement day? I must have seen 8 CHP cars on a route normally traveled. Lots of "customers" for so early in the morning !!

fintail

The cleanliness of the handle will scare off many women, no doubt. This infrastructure doesn't seem well maintained.

Mr_Shiftright said:

which I presume will confirm this?

gagrice

Mr_Shiftright said:

Interesting thing about that study---when you break it down into gender and age, it turns out that the high percentage of potential diesel buyers are men over 50. Women prefer hybrids 3 to 1 over diesel.

That may be wise on the part of women. My experience, women are less cognizant of what they put in their vehicles. If you live in a state like Oregon that does not allow self service, you are at the mercy of a MW gas pumper. Twice while on vacation I pulled into Shell stations that Gas Buddy showed with the cheapest diesel. The young man was ready to put their diesel into my vehicle without mentioning it was B20. I would like to try B20, BUT, do not want to give VW any reason to void my warranty which says B5 max for biodiesel. I would imagine one woman out of three would be able to make sure she got ULSD in her TDI. I also bet the other 3 do not have a clue what the difference is between a gas and diesel engine. That is the reason I never recommend diesel to friends. I have recommended hybrids several times.

gagrice

fintail said:

The cleanliness of the handle will scare off many women, no doubt. This infrastructure doesn't seem well maintained.

Mr_Shiftright said:

which I presume will confirm this?

First thing I do is grab a paper towel from the windshield washing kiosk. And use that to grab the pump handle. Back in 2005 I only used ARCO as it was the only ULSD sold in CA. The local dealer gave you a rubber glove for the diesel pump. I prefer my paper towel method.

gagrice

Are diesels driving the record sales in the luxury brands?

Audi reported that its October 2014 sales increased 16.5% to 15,150 vehicles, a total that stands as the 46th consecutive month of record monthly U.S. sales for the brand. Audi U.S. sales year-to-date increased 14.7% to 146,133 vehicles.

October sales mix for Audi TDI models: Audi A3 TDI at 8%; Audi A6 TDI at 8.9%; Audi A7 TDI at 12.6%; A8 TDI at 7.7%; Audi Q5 TDI at 14.2%, Audi Q7 TDI at 21.7%, with an overall mix of 12.9% on 1,331 total TDI sales for October.
- Audi holds the longest running monthly record sales streak in the premium car market according to a competitive sales report from MotorIntelligence.com.

This should tell VW something about the market:
High-mileage, TDI® Clean Diesel models accounted for 5,513 units, representing 18.2 percent of sales in October Year-to-date TDI sales were 68,612, representing 22.8 percent of sales

The Touareg delivered 578 units, 352 of which were Clean Diesel TDI, amounting to 60.9 percent of sales of the model.

BMW 267k for the year and MB 261K. The two on top of the Luxo wars. No mention of diesel sales.

As for hybrids, Prius was off 13% in Oct, and 12% for the year.

ruking1

I keep an array of stuff in the cars: plastic, latex gloves, hand sanitizer, cotton toweling, diluted car wash in a spray bottle, etc. Yet, the simplest is really Gagrice's method.

gagrice

ruking1 said:

I keep an array of stuff in the cars: plastic, latex gloves, hand sanitizer, cotton toweling, diluted car wash in a spray bottle, etc. Yet the simplest is really Gagrice's method.

You also do not know if the person before you sneezed or blew his nose into the hand he grabs the pump with. I just don't want to get that gas or diesel residue on my steering wheel. If I was a germaphobe I would go in and scrub my hands after fueling.

ruking1

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-09/u-s-gasoline-falls-to-2-9421-gallon-in-lundberg-survey.html?cmpid=yhoo

$2.94 AVG ( of 2,500 stations ) RUG

CA hosed !!

Local

$ 3.13 RUG
$ 3.23 MGUG
$ 3.33 PUG

$ 3.69 ULSD

Another take on the middle east fuel supply landscape !?

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2014/11/09/662500/

gagrice

Our Costco stations in San Diego are holding the price of RUG at $2.89 which is great with their AMEX giving an additional 3% discount. The cheapest CC diesel is a Valero station at $3.39. Cheapest Shell ULSD is $3.45 about 35 miles up the coast.

fintail

Yikes:



A Chevron maybe a mile or two away, closer to a highway (where higher prices usually live here) is about 25 cents less for diesel.

gagrice

Our San Diego diesel prices go from a low cash price of $3.29 to $5.09.
RUG from Costco $2.89 to a Shell charging $4.29. It is not unusual to see a spread in gas prices of 50 cents across a street. And it does not seem to bother those buying. Most people are creatures of habit and shop at the same store and gas station.

stever

"The gasoline versus diesel question is one of those math problems that doesn't have a fixed answer. As of today our 2014 Volkswagen Passat TSI is beating the pants off the TDI version. But six months ago it was the other way around in my neck of the woods."

2014 Volkswagen Passat TSI: Currently Kicking the TDI Diesel's Butt

gagrice

stever said:

"The gasoline versus diesel question is one of those math problems that doesn't have a fixed answer. As of today our 2014 Volkswagen Passat TSI is beating the pants off the TDI version. But six months ago it was the other way around in my neck of the woods."

2014 Volkswagen Passat TSI: Currently Kicking the TDI Diesel's Butt

Is the gasser REALLY kicking butt?? I think not. If we are generous and give the Passat TSI the benefit of the doubt on getting 28 MPG that is 11.3 cents per gallon. A low average for the hundreds of Passat diesel owners proud enough to post on Fuelly the average is over 40 MPG. That is a cost of 9.2 cents per gallon. Or $1387 per year for diesel with 15k miles driven. Or $305 per year less in fuel at that price spread. Last year this date the price spread here was only 30 cents per gallon. By May of this year I was paying less for diesel than gas. I could cherry pick a scenario that pays off the Passat TDI in a year or 20 years. That still would leave the poor sucker with his 1.8L wimpy Passat struggling up the long hills around here. And having 3 times the service intervals

stever

lol, I'm DEF to your arguments.