What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

This is sort of related to diesels, but I read this article of a poll taken: indicating that roughly between three and 5% of folks keep their vehicles 200,000 miles & beyond.

I have not read any articles indicating what (average) mileage is on the odometer when it (high mileage vehicles) hits the boneyard/junkyard.

stever

Ha, I'm a 3%-er. Well, with one ride anyway. Never having had a commute and never having lived in California, it's hard to mile them up. The 17 year old Tercel I had up north only had 114,000 miles on it when I sold it.

Americans did set a record last year for the number of miles driven.

Today's bad diesel health news from the BBC.

This was surprising:

225 Diesel Cars Sold In USA January (theautochannel.com)

To compare, 4,448 diesel-powered cars sold in the same period a year ago.

Diesel trucks are doing fine.

Not finding much good diesel news today unless maybe you like the idea of VW building EVs in Chattanooga.

texases

Seems like the only solution to the BBC's problems:

stever

LOL.

ruking1

Yup! Pretty soon they might find out it was the Monarch Butterfly migration cycles that caused all this global warming brouhaha ! http://gocalifornia.about.com/cs/californiamenu/a/monarchs.ht.http://gocalifornia.about.com/cs/californiamenu/a/monarchs.htm

But in the shorter-term, WOO HOO ! Am I getting a 2009 VW Jetta TDI PURCHASE PRICE buy back? Hey Stevie, you got to stop posting these articles that link these fantasy articles ! http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2016/01/07/180788-volkswagen-likely-to-buy-back-115-000-tdi-cars-u.html

Fintail would scoff as I say in my best HOLLYWOOD "I can't breathe " imitation "

I can't breathe" .... due to the WORLD WIDE pollution of the US market 2009 VW TDI!

So IF the buy back scenario will become/ is true.... the problem now becomes, which new 2016/2017 diesel to buy? (cough, cough) The daughters REALLY like the 2012 VW
Touareg TDI & 2014 MB GLK 250 BT! They might even buy back the Touareg? So I truly might be one of the most stupidest people on this thread, but, I'm liking these kind of numbers, as fantasy as they now are!

Like I've been saying all along, I can't even make this stuff up !

stever

That buy-back idea has been floating about and good luck with it. Nothing more fun than a free ride. I think the counterpoint to that proposal was the EV suggestion, but that really just helps everyone, not so much the owners.

Fun about the Monarchs. Got to go to one of the sanctuaries in Mexico ~10 years ago, amazing to see zillions of them flocked on the trees. My MIL refused to put a yard in when she built her new house across the street from the beach up in the UP in the 90s. When the city tried to fine her she went to the council and said she was growing milkweed to feed the endangered species. They backed down in the face of a little dynamite package of senior power, lol.

Been meaning to Google her house to see if the new owners are keeping the weeds and sand.

ruking1

Actually on second thought there is a TDI nexus with the California Monarch Butterfly migration.

For about four years, I would drive my 2003 VW Jetta TDI through some of the places mention in the linked article, to go see my daughter monthly at UC Santa Barbara. She happened to have lived in Goleta, CA for a time. Fun stuff. Yes, I was just fine with only 48/49 mpg

I googled mina few months back and it showed a TDI parked in the driveway.

stever

She was so rural, even the street view is 5+ years old.

gagrice

stever said:

She was so rural, even the street view is 5+ years old.

We have at least a dozen Milkweed plants around our acre. Only a couple monarchs this year so far. Iris, tulips, plum trees, freesia, and may others all in bloom. Hope we don't get a late freeze. Bouganvilla did not like our cold spell.

I notice in one of your pieces. Only 6% of VW TDI owners are concerned. That matches what my dealer said the last two times I was in. Sadly no VW TDI shirts to buy. Not sure what I will spend the $500 on at the dealer. I get free service for two more years. Need to put some miles on while diesel is cheap.

stever

Fruit trees here and a few daffodils are blooming, but we're getting down to 30° tonight. Winter isn't quite over; close but not quite.

Maybe you should move to Oregon just so someone else can pump your ga..., er diesel. (trucknews.com)

ruking1

gagrice said:

stever said:

She was so rural, even the street view is 5+ years old.

"...
I notice in one of your pieces. Only 6% of VW TDI owners are concerned. That matches what my dealer said the last two times I was in. Sadly no VW TDI shirts to buy. Not sure what I will spend the $500 on at the dealer. I get free service for two more years. Need to put some miles on while diesel is cheap.

Given all the 5 month period press & almost 24/7 print coverage brouhaha, the 6% "concern" rate of non & affected TDI owners seem rather small to inconsequential. If all the reaction here on this thread is counted, again rather boring ?!

Granted auto industry pundits don't publish %'s results on this kind of thing, like the meat & potaoes car ratings. For example, who is really all that concerned about the TAKATA airbag fiasco?

TAKATA air bags have DIRECTLY taken lives, as opposed to NONE for VW's so called diesel-gate. It is also totally inverse ( to some fuzzy logic )? WAG about VW's alleged pollution % INdirect death wag and has WHOLE lot more far-reaching DIRECT effects!!

I'm sure there is a chance of TAKATA bankruptcy, which would complicate/ stall the whole R&R bad airbag replacement cycles as a bare minimum!! So I have not seen a 12.5% concern rate, for example. Even a " 6% concen" rate would TOTALLY drawf the volume of NON/affected "diesel-gate" TBI owners!

stever

How Takata is even still in business is beyond me. Seems like every last one is under a recall.

"We still believe this is a great time to buy a diesel passenger car or diesel, if you can buy one. Think like baseball philospher Yogi Berra (“the place is so popular, nobody goes there anymore”) only in reverse: Diesels are so unpopular, you should go find one. "

Diesel passenger car sales go on life support — just 222 sold in January (extremetech.com)

ruking1

You would think I wrote this article. I did not, but I agree ! I almost think in a couple of months to a year, I will kick myself for only having four diesels

Both daughters & new SIL after having extensively driven both diesel CUV's, now see them as dream cars ! Looks only, while real nice (my .02 cents only) are very very deceiving ? Three drove them. Now three love them, TDI option!

Katie! ...bar the doors !

Michaell

ruking1 said:

You would think I wrote this article. I did not, but I agree ! I almost think in a couple of months to a year, I will kick myself for only having four diesels
I'm
Both daughters after having extensively driven both diesel CUV's, now see them as dream cars ! Looks only while real nice (my .02 cents only) are very very deceiving ?,

Katie! ...bar the doors !

I won't rule out a VW diesel when my lease is up later this year - if they are available, and the numbers makes sense. Possible that the Jetta 1.4T may be a better fit ... less cost up front and almost similar MPG numbers.

ruking1

I am glad the article may have peaked your interest in TDI's. @ the same time, I think when you're ready to do the deal, the TDI will probably not be in the lease mix.

Michaell

ruking1 said:

I am glad the article may have peaked your interest in TDI's. @ the same time, I think when you're ready to do the deal, the TDI will probably not be in the lease mix.

I've always been interested in the VW TDI engine; I didn't read the referenced article.

That said, for the kind of driving I mostly do, a hybrid may be a better choice. I'm just not sure I will like the driving dynamics of a hybrid, based on the short test drive I took a couple of years ago in a Prius C.

texases

I've not read one good review of the Prius C. Try the new regular Prius, some reviewers like it. I'm happy with my MKZ hybrid.

ruking1

Yeah! I think that would get you into the finer points of the TDI.

In addition to the Prus line, I'm sure you also are aware that VW, as well as other diesel OEM's have the hybrid models, as well as EV 's also.

So for example, I am almost diametrically opposed to HAVING to run "the egg between the right foot on the throttle/throttle as biofeedback" routine to get any kind of good mpg from a gas hybrid.

In addition, to drive a gas hybrid well, the procedures and protocols are " different" to much more complicated than the diesels or gas like model. So don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people who love the "geekiness" about it!

Michaell

texases said:

I've not read one good review of the Prius C. Try the new regular Prius, some reviewers like it. I'm happy with my MKZ hybrid.

When I start shopping later this summer, I'll put it on my list.

And, I'll look at other hybrids as well .. just read that someone got a great lease deal on a Fusion hybrid.

ruking1

texases said:

I've not read one good review of the Prius C. Try the new regular Prius, some reviewers like it. I'm happy with my MKZ hybrid.

What kind of mileage are you posting ?
2015 Passat TDI 's were posting 50 mpg on down! In my same commute 40 mpg on the 2009 Jetta TDI, I'm guessing an easy 43 to 45 on a 2015 Passat TDI.

ruking1

Now that the eco cons narrative has been totally blown, here's an interesting article about the refineries refining the 45.2% gasoline. It's funny how they don't talk about the 23.2% diesel! refined from the same 42 gal barrel of oil.http://www.wsj.com/articles/cutbacks-by-midwest-refiners-pose-fresh-risk-for-hard-hit-oil-market-1456336051

gagrice

stever said:

Ha, I'm a 3%-er. Well, with one ride anyway. Never having had a commute and never having lived in California, it's hard to mile them up. The 17 year old Tercel I had up north only had 114,000 miles on it when I sold it.

Americans did set a record last year for the number of miles driven.

Today's bad diesel health news from the BBC.

This was surprising:

225 Diesel Cars Sold In USA January (theautochannel.com)

To compare, 4,448 diesel-powered cars sold in the same period a year ago.

Diesel trucks are doing fine.

Not finding much good diesel news today unless maybe you like the idea of VW building EVs in Chattanooga.

I have watched this in Alaska and here in CA a lot.

"When you see cars piling up on the way to school taking their children, the fumes directly from the vehicle in front are being vented straight into the car behind, and exposing their child - and yet we are ignoring this," he added.

Two things and over abundance of pedophiles make parents nervous about their children. Here it costs up to $500 a year for bus service. Has to be paid in advance. No doubt it is a high pollution area around schools before and after school.

WardsAuto.com, is reporting that there were 222 diesel-powered cars sold in the U.S. in January, a sharp decline from the 4,448 sold in the same period a year ago

Not rocket science with that one. Sales banned by VW and Audi that account for the bulk of diesel sales.

fintail

E Bluetecs must be really rare IF that number is true. My local dealer alone has a few in stock.

stever

More fun begins tomorrow:

"A federal judge will hold a hearing Thursday that may offer the first details on any progress in settling over 500 lawsuits filed against Volkswagen AG, a top supplier and many current and former top executives over excess emissions in 580,000 U.S. diesel vehicles."

VW hearing on diesel suits may provide clues on settlement progress (autonews.com)

That's the suit by the owners. Hope the courts have gone digital, take a big clear-cut to print out that 719 page legal complaint and mail it out to everyone.

Ford’s F-150 diesel prototype spied driving in the wild (equipmentworld.com)

gagrice

From the sound it must still be an International Corn binder. Very noisy even for a PU truck.

500 whiners out of 580k vehicles is almost not worth mentioning. I wonder how they will prove they were harmed physically or financially? If they sold under book value to anyone but a VW dealer, the VW can say they would have offered full book value. Be interesting to see if they get more than the VW Love gift we all got.

ruking1

I agree! I hope FORD puts real mufflers on that diesel. If I were a pick up truck shopper, (I'm not) based on that noise alone, I would not get it.

Yes! I don't think the VW CCP is a"$500./$500 $$ settlement". Meaning that it would be totally tax-free. But, it does come under the IRS form 1099 MISC, $600 reporting triggers, also I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the 2009 IRS tax credit of $1,300!

If they settle for BB value with those that choose to sue, so be it. So if they buy back @ my $ PP, & I need or want another diesel, what can I say?

ruking1

2016 VW sales ain't so bad? http://www.businessinsider.com/volkswagen-recovery-in-america-suv-tiguan-2016-2

gagrice

Doesn't gift tax have to be paid by the giver? I think they can give us up to $14k without any gift tax.

elias

I may offer a personal buyback program to to some lucky naive tree-hugger who got duped into buying a blue VW Golf/jetta wagon stickshift TDI, if they first remove the "coexist" bumper sticker. I feel true pity for them!

I'll gladly pay half the edmunds-used-car price and VW can pay the other half due to their Favnercheatin.

ruking1

Like you, I am not getting very many bites! Give me your poor huddled masses (& abused late model 2013 to 2015 VW Touareg TDI's) yearning to be free!

ruking1

While not having much to with diesels, the actions in this article might be an interesting precursor of why, what's happening in America: 40 Macy's stores closing. Specifically think about how many Macy's " customers" it takes to support a local healthy Macy's. Also while some might vilified the "retail" jobs, think about how many "LOCAL" jobs (100 to 160 ) are being lost! and the lost opportunities to get a start !? If you care to look, its competitors are also suffering store losses also, notably Sears, JC Penny's. More broadly, what is the ripple effect?

http://www.businessinsider.com/volkswagen-recovery-in-america-suv-tiguan-2016-2

fintail

People are shopping at big physical stores less and less - and Macy's has always had a ton of locations. VW moving more into small SUVs/CUVs certainly won't hurt it.

Speaking of closings , the Bank of America where my mother lives (three towns only divided by streets, total population ~35K) is closing in May, even with that base there apparently wasn't enough to keep it going. That same town lost its JCP a few years ago (so did mine, I live in a very affluent boomburb). Sometimes actions are more tied to corporate health than the overall economy.

ruking1

fintail said:

People are shopping at big physical stores less and less - and Macy's has always had a ton of locations. VW moving more into small SUVs/CUVs certainly won't hurt it.

Speaking of closings , the Bank of America where my mother lives (three towns only divided by streets, total population ~35K) is closing in May, even with that base there apparently wasn't enough to keep it going. That same town lost its JCP a few years ago (so did mine, I live in a very affluent boomburb). Sometimes actions are more tied to corporate health than the overall economy.

First I would agree with you. Then, well no! It's tied first and foremost TO corporate health ! Then, they look to the "local economies" as to which is more "cost-effective" to close!

So for example, in the case of Macy's, 40 closings are a direct shot to the heart, so to speak of NYC. (corporate headquarters of Macy's.) Many people also don't understand, that behind oil, the fashion industry is one of the BIGGEST United States industries! This is a major reason why I do not buy into the eco cons stories! I would say many to all of us have too many clothes! Much of it is from China !

As it applies to VW, corporate may have misunderstood the US CUV/SUV market! How long it will remain a hot market remains to seen. But being as how 75% plus of the market are large cars to light trucks, I'd say a minimum of 12 years. So I think as a minimum, @ least they are making an effort. It will be interesting to see if they brought out a Tiquan TDI with 369 #ft of torque or so!?

fintail

Well yes. Macy's is a combination of too many stores and changing tastes. In my experience, many areas with a location aren't large enough or interested enough in an old fashioned store to pay the bills, and tastes are shifting, especially as "free trade" continues to take a toll on some demographics. In a decade or two, there will mostly just be discounters and high end stores, the rest online. The best part of Macy's has always been the clearance racks. Maybe even more interesting could be the closings of some WalMarts and malls.

ruking1

Indeed that is happening also ! In a very ironic twist, stores are being closed in small rural areas. As you know Walmart stores were designed TO decimate (more PC SERVE) small rural areas. So now the closing of a small rural area Walmart is being no less mourned than the small local hardware store, grocery store, auto service stores closing !

But yes, I think you pretty much have the drill down!

gagrice

ruking1 said:

While not having much to with diesels, the actions in this article might be an interesting precursor of why, what's happening in America:

http://www.businessinsider.com/volkswagen-recovery-in-america-suv-tiguan-2016-2

They did not see that the Tiguan sales increased in 2015 by 42.7% over 2014. They are up 71.6% for January over last year. The Touareg ended in the plus column for 2015 in spite of 3 months not being able to sell the popular TDI model. VW SUV/CUVs are placed between the utility brands and the luxury. The only real loss of customers are the ones that wanted a diesel and could not get one. The negative vibes are coming from the media and diesel haters, not VW TDI owners.

fintail

Today I got behind a ~2007-2011 Dodge diesel pickup that was smoking enough to make the fintail blush. I sure am glad the brave warriors are hunting down polluters.

stever

We were behind one of those near Chaparral NM an hour ago. Was sure it was the pickup in front of us, except it was a gasser in front of him. Real stinkpot burning oil.

ruking1

Slow diesel News Day!

Just got a smog on each diesel: 2012 VW Touareg TDI & 2014 MB GLK 250 BT . Each was hand scanned for the serial numbers. The cable was plungged into each's OBD. The data was downloaded to the CA DMV. Both "PASSED" with flying colors !

The VW Customer Care Package (2012 VW Touareg TDI) was also "activated" at the local dealer. Life is good!

stever

No sniffer eh?

ruking1

No. No colonoscopy. Even as I saw the sniffer come out of the gasser in front of us!

Yeah! I am glad to hear that Tiquan sales are doing very well! I think that if VW decides to bring the Tiquan TDI back to the US markets, they will sell even more units! I would swag the TDI % would get up to @ least 25% of Tiguan model sales! Hopefully it is the right product and for a long long time.

Gagrice, to answer your question about gifting, it is considered "promotional ".

iluvmysephia1

Cough - cough!

ruking1

iluvmysephia1 said:

Cough - cough!

I take it you've been there ?

This is the real VW problem? http://news.yahoo.com/post-dieselgate-volkswagen-retools-itself-faster-ride-130407667--finance.html

ruking1

VW has always targeted and competed with GM and Toyota! So VW has no choice but to up its' game, & @ many levels ! http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/02/28/heres-proof-that-general-motors-really-has-changed.aspx?source=yahoo-2&utm_campaign=article&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=yahoo-2

ruking1

Slow diesel news night! The last two tankfuls for the 2012 VW Touareg TDI= 33 mpg. The 2014 MB GLK 250 BT's two tankfuls = 37 mpg. The four refueling were done after the low fuel lamps lit. ULSD locally hits $2.09.

gagrice

I refueled the Touareg last week at $1.99 credit. Today that station is up to $2.09. RUG went up about 20 cents. We had 572 miles after 6 weeks. 90% city driving 24.7 MPG. I need a vacation, the T-reg needs a vacation. Get out on the open road and blow it out.

What's crazy is the 76 station in our little village has ULSD for $2.19 and RUG for $2.49. Across the street RUG is $2.69 and diesel $2.69. With 20 cent discount if you do the car wash thing.

Not Surprised Buick is near the top. Haven't they always been the best of the GM cars. The Encore with the 4 cylinder diesel used in the Cruze, would be a great CUV choice.

gagrice

VW must be making good progress with their ongoing EPA battle. Their stock is up a buck n a quarter this morning. I think the resolution will be a small fine and the fact they have agreed to build the Golf EV in TN. Makes more sense than spending $billions fixing cars that will be scrap in a few years. The added NOx is really infinitesimal, when you look at the big picture. Don't let VW sell diesels until they can pass a road test, and leave the others live out their lives as is. Offer a good trade-in price for anyone looney enough to trade for a gas VW. They want to trade for some other brand, they are on their own.

At the court hearing last week, Volkswagen Lawyer Robert Guiffra told that the company is getting closer to reach an agreement with the regulators. However, the details on the ongoing negotiation cannot be provided as the Justice Department has asked the automaker not to disclose any of the negotiation information.

http://www.businessfinancenews.com/28000-volkswagen-served-with-march-24-deadline-to-find-emission-fix/

ruking1

Things are seemingly going the way we called it in Q4/2015, not long after the announcement, causing this brouhaha!

I specifically left out the "quid pro quo" : VW offering EV models. I am just guessing here, ( behind closed door elements) but I think the issue was WHO/WHOM is/WAS going to propose it as a solution, not that it was a viable one or not.

By way of looking in the mirror, at least two or more owners/technicians @ separate smog stations, commented that there's no way that these (3 in my case) diesels really needed smog inspection, let alone @ the diesels mandated intervals.

@ this point it does not look like a buyback is in the cards for the 2009 TDI's. I have all along thought it was a very long shot, even at high bluebook. Truthfully, I had hoped & still hope I am so very wrong on this ! I would really like preferential pricing & ZERO % & down on GTD or Tiquan both with the 369 # ft torque & 7/8/9 speed A/T.!!

All of the family members indicate they are SO over small to compact sedans!? All like the CUV concept. Each car was returned washed, full tank & ZERO scratches , albeit plus app 1,000 miles more than it had before.. I shouldn't have let them all drive both of our CUV's!

carboy21

gagrice said:

VW must be making good progress with their ongoing EPA battle. Their stock is up a buck n a quarter this morning. I think the resolution will be a small fine and the fact they have agreed to build the Golf EV in TN. Makes more sense than spending $billions fixing cars that will be scrap in a few years. The added NOx is really infinitesimal, when you look at the big picture. Don't let VW sell diesels until they can pass a road test, and leave the others live out their lives as is. Offer a good trade-in price for anyone looney enough to trade for a gas VW. They want to trade for some other brand, they are on their own.

At the court hearing last week, Volkswagen Lawyer Robert Guiffra told that the company is getting closer to reach an agreement with the regulators. However, the details on the ongoing negotiation cannot be provided as the Justice Department has asked the automaker not to disclose any of the negotiation information.

http://www.businessfinancenews.com/28000-volkswagen-served-with-march-24-deadline-to-find-emission-fix/

All the hulabaloo about the $2billion fines ..........., some guys were accepting my bet that there will be minimal fines of less then a few million. Can those who accepted my bet stand up please ?

ruking1

I think the reality is more like this is a HUGE boom to the U.S. Treasury! That may have been the REAL end game all along, in exchange for VW trying to expand its market percentage. Right now, that seems to be 2 % of 2015 sales (a tad less than 350,000 units) ,( Diesels are app (20%) 70.000 units.

The DOJ has probably negotiated the EV quid pro quo. I'm also sure that the fines have also been negotiated . All this brouhaha is really the price to pay for VW's expansion to app 5% of the market share. (target 850,000 units) I am sure VW is anxious to ramp up it's diesel Passat production in Chattanooga, Tennessee .

Keep in mind the CUV market segment product that VW is deficient, will come from Mexico!

I can only hope that in there somewhere, they have negotiated IRS tax credits for buying future diesels.