What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

gagrice

Any tourist to Alaska has seen far more of "the sights" than I ever have. But, then, I've only lived here for half my life now (not counting the first two years of it), so there's still time.

I think my Alaska days are over. I put in 37 years there and didn't see much that is off the beaten path. Not even Denali park. 25 years in Prudhoe and I got 52 miles down the Dalton a few times fishing. Nice Grayling in those little streams. I have worked in 9 Arctic villages including Barrow. I would not say that is a real treat. Just a real experience. Not going anywhere I cannot drive the Touareg TDI anymore. Unless I were to move to Hilo. Then not much choice but fly.

xwesx

I would not say that is a real treat. Just a real experience.

Yes! That's how I look at it most of the time. My "real treat" comes in the form of winter driving, as I get to enjoy ~6 months of it (this is the time when there is actually snow/ice on the road). I absolutely love driving in inclement weather; the more challenging, the better.

The more I consider what my vehiclular future holds, though, the more I think that it will be a while before I pull the trigger on another car. Hopefully, the diesel options expand greatly in that time (thinking 4-7 years) without gutting the tandem availability of manual transmissions.

Time will tell.

gagrice

One of my best friends lived a good time in Fairbanks. When his wife retired from the school district and he retired from the tracking station they headed for Florida. I don't think they have ever looked back. I don't mind driving on ice and snow, I just don't like getting out of a warm vehicle. I also don't like digging vehicles out of a big snow drift. Did that way too many times in Prudhoe.

stever

You gotta drive the Dalton. Where else are you going to see a musk ox that's not behind a fence? (granted, the one I saw was road kill...).

And with a diesel, you could skip Coldfoot and not have to fill up.

houdini1

Water vapor is a terrible greenhouse gas, so be sure to drink 3 or 4 gallons of water each day to wash all that greenery down....at the same time you will be doing your part to reduce that horrible water vapor.

gagrice

In my 25 years working in the Arctic I only saw the Musk Ox herd close to Prudhoe one winter. Most of the time you would see them close to Kaktovik. The Eskimos claim the white man dumped them in Alaska and they took over the caribou habitat. That did not stop them from killing and eating them of course. Jim Childs, that owned the only store in Prudhoe for many years, killed one and had it stuffed. Then he put a TV inside of it. They had it in their bedroom at the camp. Quite a novelty.

stever

Some of the lightest, warmest wool anywhere. $98 an ounce.

A scarf would be overkill in Savannah though, even this time of year.

Tybee Island police get diesel patrol cars (savannahnow.com)

gagrice

Sounds like VW gave them a deal to get their foot in the door at $25k each. They have to have heavy duty batteries and alternators, I would think. Diesel is much more efficient idling was well. The local cops never shut theirs down. I see them at the local restaurant running year round. Most here have the Explorers loaded to the gills with electronics. No wonder we are going broke.

stever

The other thing that caught my eye was the "factory delivery", or so it appears.

gagrice

If I am a VW exec I would have played it up to the max. The Passat is probably the safest car in the class, and best mileage to boot. The big plus being Made in USA. I don't think a hybrid would hack it with all the electronics that have to keep running. Only thing close is the Cruze diesel and it is smaller than the Passat. Passat city range is 573 miles, the Cruze diesel only 421 miles.

I wish our police depts were a little more interested in saving the tax payers money.

stever

The big plus being Made in USA.

Good point - probably was something in the bid about requiring a certain percentage of US parts content or assembly.

Tybee isn't all that big so they really don't need much range on a tank - friend of mine lived there while he was in nursing school and he'd canoe around the island for exercise a few times a week (always with the tide). Good fish houses there to idle in front of though.

ruking1

..."Most here have the Explorers loaded to the gills with electronics. No wonder we are going broke."...

Up in these parts also ! I had one jut recently almost run up my tail pipe in the #4/4 lanes (no light or sirens).

ruking1

..."I wish our police septs were a little more interested in saving the tax payers money."...

The last time I went on a ride along, the officer said he normally got 14/15 mpg.

gagrice

Mercedes is still in the lead this year for the Luxury market. With BMW close behind.

Mercedes-Benz's BlueTEC diesel models recorded sales of 1,724 for the month, up 8.0%, and 15,092 year-to-date, an increase of 9.9% from the 13,738 units sold in November 2012.

BMW does not say anything about their Diesel sales.

As of the end of November:

BMW YTD 271,891
MB YTD 279,501

If anyone on this thread cares, Lexus is a distant 3rd with YTD of 239,090. They need to get off the stick and start offering diesels in the the USA.

fintail

From what I know, Lexus doesn't have diesel anywhere. There used to be a diesel IS designed for Europe, but it was dropped, probably in favor of even duller hybrids.

ruking1

I think the good/bad news are hybrids are indeed versatile. VW, BMW, MB, et al, all see the (hybrid) writing on the walls, (more like ugly in your face graffiti) and offer hybrids. So for example, VW Touareg is offered in a supercharged hybrid gasser version. EPA rated @ 24 mpg or 1/2 mpg better than gasser. The marketing advantage is "better" fuel mileage than either the V6 gasser and a mythical V8 and the PUNCH of a V8 when one wants it.

gagrice

If not for the fancy Camry ES350 and the Faberge Egg RX they may as well shut the doors. Those two account for 65% of Lexus sales. I don't think they sell enough Lexus in the rest of the World to keep the factories open. Not sure why they have not just added them to what they build here in the Toyota factories. Probably political pressure in Japan.

ruking1

Indeed and both are getting very long in the tooth. Now I personally do not see that as a "BAD" thing. However, current market wisdom/s is/are (sex) novelty SELLS !! They have been riding on the "reliability/durability" reputation and for a long time.

So for example the 14 Chevrolet Impala was rated #1 in Motorweek's episode test of "FULL" sized sedans . The (Toyota) Avalon, while being good didn't even make the top 5 in the testing. Not bad for a retired but recycled Caddie platform?

But I think it will be hard to ignore the "SMALL" suv segment (Honda CRV, Toyota Rav4)

fintail

Hey, the ES is a fancy (and better looking) Avalon now, it's moving up. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise, as some say, Lexus = Luxury EXperiment for the US. I am surprised there aren't more US built models too, as some RX are built in Canada. Some kind of prestige thing involved, or maybe the US is only good enough to make Camrollas.

fintail

An efficient high power engine mated to a hybrid seems like the best of both worlds - when most of them so far are tired hamsters on treadmills mated to a hybrid. I am not against hybrids per se, just have to find one that can be useful when driven in anything but a distracted daze.

ruking1

Well they are well thought of and do work well in diesel/hybrid and natural gas railroad engines !! But yes that is way outside our chosen topic.

However hybrids in gassers do preserve their $ premiums (unfortunately) The issues (for me) are price to performance ratios (not good in my opinion).

fintail

That's right, hybrids someone have resale - although I bet in the upper range they don't, like the seldom-bought S400 hybrid or the invisible white elephant LS600h.

Diesel hybrid does make sense - economical yet powerful high speed driving combined with efficient and strong (if you do it right) low speed. Gasoline hybrids seem to keep it weak for most situations right now, or their drivers do anyway.

ruking1

This is a very small, but actually very HUGE issue. There are no (if very few) passenger diesel/hybrids on the market !! It is probably the classic chicken/egg scenario. It will probably not be overcome anytime soon. The reason why most passenger gasser/hybrids are kept "weak" as you say, is to appeal to the "ECO" kool- aid, eco snob sets.

I would call the VW Touareg supercharged gasser/HYBRID ANYTHING but weak. Off the top of my head 428 # ft of torque stands out. (more than the 406 # ft in a diesel).

Trust me if the gasser hybrid were the better solution for locomotives GE (an Obama supporter subsidiary ) would not have put out the diesel/hybrid locomotives.

gagrice

Straight diesel is the best way to go. I think hybridization mucks up the advantages offered by diesel. Gas hybrids are a failed attempt to compete with diesel. Sure you can buy a wimpy Prius and match the diesels offered in the USA. EXCEPT in driving experience. I'm still waiting for someone to match the records set for long haul with VW diesels. Even Wayne Gerdes with a hybrid could not come close to a Passat TDI.

Expert hypermilers Wayne Gerdes and Chris Bernius just set a new Guinness World Record for the lowest fuel consumption by a gasoline hybrid car traveling through all 48 contiguous US states.

The two drivers travelled 7,899 miles over two weeks in a Kia Optima Hybrid with no modifications or special equipment, achieving an astounding 64.55 miles per gallon average. Guinness World Records verified the attempt and presented the drivers with a certificate during a ceremony held Monday at Kia Motors' West Point, Ga., manufacturing facility.

Didn't take Wayne long to figure out which vehicle was mileage king.

Long-distance drives are awesome, but they will make you keenly aware of your vehicle's fuel consumption. The more you have to stop to fill up, the more annoyed you might become. Enter the 2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI, which set a world record of 77.9 miles per gallon over 8122 miles. That's certified by the Guinness Book of World Records, folks, but there are a few provisos to keep in mind.

First, you probably won't be able to cross the contiguous U.S. on just 105 gallons of fuel. Wayne Gerdes and Tom WInger did, though, crushing the previous record of 67.9 mpg and the hybrid record of 64.6 mpg. Gerdes runs CleanMPG.com, and has devoted a good portion of his life to squeezing fuel economy records out of automobiles. Gerdes offers a few tips, like planning in advance to react to the topography so you can coast down hills and exploit momentum, avoid heavy braking and acceleration, and stick to the speed limit.

ruking1

I would agree !! I think my experiences with the 03 Jetta TDI (yours with the TDI also) vs OP's (other peoples) 04 "Pious" 's was a real world case in point.

I know that you can probably guess where I am/would going with this, given your post, as can most folks who have followed this thread for a while.

gagrice

What really cracks me up is Wayne and I used to get into very heated debates over Hybrids vs Diesels about 10 years ago. It is a pleasure to see him set such an astounding record with a diesel. Congratulations is in order.

Now if he would make that record run in an SUV we could come full circle. I think the GLK 250 Bluetec is the one to use. Or maybe the Q5 TDI. I see some pretty good numbers already for that diesel.

I notice with the Kia Optima hybrid used to set the record. It has a very small trunk. You give up a lot to have a hybrid vs a diesel.

ruking1

LOL ! Who knows, perhaps those earlier in the tooth conversations between you both were the catalyst in getting him to set the record in a diesel !

There is really an inequality, in that the record (77 mpg +) was set in a PASSAT vs the KIA !! . Much much more equal would have been a Passat vs Avalon/Camry hybrid. LOL, Good luck with either comparison!!! ??? As you say you really do give up a lot in a hybrid. Funny, the Prius was not on that player list ! ?

I think there are also far more techniques in driving a diesel (once one understands the differences, similarities, exceptions) that yield far better results (including MPG) than the same in any gasser and gasser hybrid.

I think that setting another record this time with a diesel SUV would be the gasser/hybrids eco snobs ultimate nightmare. The record set in the Kia was already 1 nail in the coffin for the false narrative. The VW Tiquan tips the scales @ 3397#'s. I also know the GLK 250 is app 4k#'s.

Now for me it is easy to imagine a sort of frankenstein Tiquan with the 3.0 L TDI with an 8 speed A/T or a beta test DSG 9/10 speed with the E288 upcoming 2015 TDI. (280# ft?) My guess here is a conventional 6/7 speed M/T would probably STILL do better.

stever

Let me know when Wayne breaks the 12,665 miles per gallon record.

I'm going to be thrilled if I ever simply double my mpg from 20 to 40.

ruking1

12,665 mpg might be the VERY reason it will NEVER hit the market !

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/01/27/volkswagen-produce-260-mpg-plug-in-xl1/

To Fintail's fantasy's: diesel/hybrid plug in: 260 mpg. (article quotes VW's 7 speed DSG)

For our 1 to 3 person 14,256 miles commute (up to 42,768 miles per year commute requirement) it would use 55 gals per year. GEEZ, we can't have that, now can we? It would appear in the case of 3 person's, we'd have to strap one to the roof rack.

gagrice

Wasn't there a sun powered vehicle that went all over Australia? How about this one:

The world's first solar-powered family car that can travel 420 miles on a sunny day and creates TWICE as much energy as it uses

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2385976/Stella-solar-powered-fami- ly-car-travels-420-miles-sunny-energy-positive.html

Only practical solutions considered. For now and the forseeable future Diesel is king of the mileage. Winning over one hybrid owner at a time. ;-)

The Passat TDI drive began June 7 from VW's U.S. headquarters in Herndon, Va., and ended when the team returned there June 24.

"Obviously, we employ some specialized techniques to achieve such figures, but there's no reason why owners of TDI vehicles shouldn't be able to achieve great mileage," Gerdes says.