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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    A total self inflicted gun shot wound ! SIGSW! VW should put this "Amarok" on the US market before GM gets a toe hold in this segment against Toyota Tacoma with its two market offerings!? My swag with two offerings & TDI option, GM thinks this segment might EXPLODE!
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    gagrice said:

    I'd also like to see VW bring the Amarok over here, I've always liked those when traveling abroad.

    If VW were to offer the Amarok TDI in the US, I would sell my Nissan Frontier in a heartbeat and buy the Amarok.


    At the moment I'm just hoping they EVER sell TDI anything in the US again...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Did you folks get your VW Customer Care Package yet?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I got mine and looked for VW TDI shirts. No luck so far. They do have a cool Mt bike with VW on it. I think we have a year to use the $1000.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    For the board: the $ 1,000 aggregate is delivered in one $500 debit card that can be used anywhere. The other $ 500 card can be used at VW dealers.

    My friend (with over 16,000 hours in commercial airlines @ other aircraft) drove the 12 VW Touareg TDI. This was a treat for me, riding shotgun! YEE HAW! He drove it like a crack fighter pilot does! Time for a multiple thousand miles road trip!

    The local newspaper featured an article in autoMD.com. UPSHOT : it would seem that one in two people drive vehicles with over 100,000 miles, and 81% say the appropriate vehicle lifespan is 10 years or more.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    Slow diesel News Day. !

    ULSD $ $ 2.15 (filled@), RUG $2.29/PUG $2.53

    2009 Jetta TDI, 38 mpg, urban (terrible) commute to SOS/DD trek.

    SOS/DD for the 12 Touareg TDI (33 mpg), 14 MB GLK 250 BT! (36 mpg)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Audi A4 diesel version ruled out for US market "due to the American market demanding more SUVs, and totally not the American government demanding compliant diesel engines." (japolnik.com)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Each of those responses has the two edged sword options.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    ruking1 said:

    Did you folks get your VW Customer Care Package yet?

    Got mine in January. Already used most of the 500 gift card. The dealer card will go towards the 40K DSG maintenance.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    VW has another month to work out the dieselgate fix. The judge seems pretty happy with the progress so far. If the pundits are right, VW in the US is going to give a big boost to Chattanooga.

    "The judge is “obviously encouraged that there’s substantial progress, but he’s keeping Volkswagen’s feet to the fire,” said Adam Levitt, a member of the plaintiff lawyers’ steering committee. “If a fix is not in place by the April 21 hearing, the consequences for Volkswagen will not be favorable.”

    VW Fails to Reach Agreement With U.S. on Fix for Diesel Engines (Bloomberg)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    Slow diesel New Day!

    The 2009 Jetta TDI up and back to Tahoe (425) of 572 miles with commuting, posted 13.2 /( 14.5)gallons, 43.3 mpg.

    Not a word from CARB, on the MB GLK 250 BT?!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I think I remember reading somewhere that the 2017 Mercedes 250 D won't be coming to the U.S. Hope I am wrong.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    It only matters if you intended to buy one!?
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    edited March 2016
    ruking1 said:

    It only matters if you intended to buy one!?

    It is/was definitely on my list of possibles.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Just thinking what I would like to replace my aging Touareg TDI. I keep looking at the VW California camper van. Only comes with the diesel options. And only sold outside the USA. They claim 45 MPG GB. Still would be nice to vacation in.
    https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/camper-vans-t6/california-ocean


  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    What a stroke of utter irony eh? The California is not available in ...California ,
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Comes in two power options with the same 2.0L diesel. Having a small camper that gets 37 MPG US would be a real boon to the old Hippie type Boomers that are retiring. Make mine All Wheel drive with the higher power option. Will it ever make it to the USA??? Funny ad for it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plIa1TrCwg0
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    This video REALLY brings me TO and BACK to the hippy dippy trippy days! But the stick to reality make mine diesel !

    Driving in the hills of unincorporated San Mateo County, (overlooking the Pacific Ocean: where is laid out the iconic Highway 1) I get behind that iconic (23 Windows) VW BUS!!?? In the process of looking for a place to pass I started looking at the driver who had hippie style long hair. The OMG moment came when he stuck his hand out to give a left-hand turn signal ! PEACE man ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    DISAPPROVED! Resubmit in 90 days for final disapprove...? I got a chuckle out of this link. I predicted these results early on in the so-called Diesel Gate !

    http://www.yahoo.com/autos/vw-diesel-scandal-now-6-months-old-learned-154000277.html

    The concept of TDI's as a no-brainer for pick up trucks (among others) to large cars to suv's are starting to take hold!?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This statement is all I am concerned with. It is highly unlikely I would buy any sedan. I just don't like the discomfort they cause my back getting in and out.

    Despite various "diesel is dead" headlines and pronouncements by executives, diesel engines are likely to continue to sell decently in pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles.

    Scandal or not, rules demanding higher fuel economy and lower carbon emissions are staying put in North America, Europe, China, and other markets.

    Diesels are one way to meet those rules, and they are well-received among truck buyers and, increasingly, owners of large or luxury crossover SUVs.


    A small diesel PU and the Touareg is more than enough vehicles for the two of us.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    Some asy ways to get rid of diesels are to get rid of gas mpg mandates! Make even bigger gas engines, cars, suv's etc.! Give tax credits TO gas guzzlers !

    On sedans, I'm not likely to get another sedan, if I am to buy another vehicle. I just convinced a relative to keep a sedan with 120,000 miles. The goal? 240,000 miles & evaluate @ that time.

    CUV's/SUV's have been popular for a very long time. I would not be surprised if the small to bigger compact cars % percentage of the passenger vehicle fleet has gone down.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    One more log on the fire - now the FTC's suing VW over 'Clean Diesel' false advertising:
    http://www.autonews.com/article/20160329/RETAIL03/160329857/vw-sued-by-ftc-over-clean-diesel-ad-claims?cciid=email-autonews-blast
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    When everything is said and done, VW should do a GM! Declare bankruptcy! Get the costs of diesel gate put IN bankruptcy! Start over ! Of course, the new VW A CEO should be an American mom ( like GM's)!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I don't recall specific claims being made in any TV ads nor print ads. It's cleaner than a 1965 190D or a smoky commercial that dodges regs, right?

    Oh, our brave warriors in the public sector enforcement cabals keep us safe. This is almost becoming like a make work project for the answers-to-nobody class.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    edited March 2016
    Sounds pretty specific to me:
    "According to Volkswagen USA’s marketing strategy materials, one of the “keymessages” it intended to convey through the word “clean” was that Clean Diesel vehicles produce “NOx emissions [that are] reduced by 95 percent[.]” "
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    The thing that bothers me about "Dieselgate" is the stupidity. How could anyone be confronted by an engineering problem (which could be solved), and simply decide to throw in the towel and cheat, thinking they would never be discovered? That is a whole new level of stupid from folks who are generally pretty smart.

    Very human, of course, but dumb. I suspect that the folks in advertising had no idea of what had been done.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I don't recall seeing a print ad or commercial where specific numbers were stated. Maybe in fine print someone could dig up?

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2016
    I don't see anything other than that 95% quote. Lots of fine print on MPG. (I'm not surveying commercials though).

    All I really know is that VW is def blue over this mess.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The longer the VW attorneys can drag it out the better for VW. The cars will be older and likely near worthless on the resale market. I would bet less than 1% will dump them at a loss. Can't even trade them on a Cruze diesel that is not available right now. The owners should go after the Green Car Congress that made VW and Audi diesels the Cleanest cars of the year. Dieselgate cannot take all the mileage records from VW. Much todo over nothing, probably pushed by the US automakers that could not compete in the MPG arena.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    Realistically, the so called "market value" of a DIESEL model car will be hard pressed to fall below a GAS "like" model.

    VW A?
    http://247wallst.com/autos/2016/03/30/more-reasons-for-volkswagen-to-flee-us-market/
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2016
    I hope VW doesn't leave the US market. I would sure understand if they did.
    1. lousy market share as most Americans not interested in good handling and well engineered vehicles.
    2. Poor profit margins as Americans next to Canadians are the biggest cheapskates on the planet.
    3. EPA/CARB continually changing the rules for diesels that are VW's best reason for being here.
    4. Our litigious way of settling things is probably the best reason to get out of the USA.
    5. The highest Corporate taxes of the OECD countries.


    If you can think of more feel free to add.
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    Item number 5 (above) is a little too close to being political, don't you think?

    And I can't speak for anyone else, but number 2 feels just a little like I have been insulted.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2016
    1. Scattered dealer network with a poor reputation for service (well, can say that about most dealerships). There's going to be even fewer dealers if VW doesn't get Dieselgate figured out and some product to the dealers.
    2. No trucks or big SUVs to appeal to the US market
    3. Reliability reputation (not including Audi which has made huge gains in this area)
    4. Americans (and Canadians?) don't like cheaters
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    But Americans love cheating the inept government - one would think this might have appeal. Unfortunately, both Americans and Canadians love to put on airs about being green, usually with a healthy dose of hypocrisy,

    The tax rate thing is funny, as the US also undertaxes the wealthy compared to competitive nations. The money for the military-industrial cabal (who uses a lot of diesel) and the well-subsidized FIRE sector has to come from somewhere.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    henryn said:

    Item number 5 (above) is a little too close to being political, don't you think?

    And I can't speak for anyone else, but number 2 feels just a little like I have been insulted.

    I base that on observation and facts. I include myself in the frugal (cheapskate) comment. I spent a lot of time in Kona Hawaii staying at one resort 3 out of six weeks for over a year. I got to know the waiters and waitresses very well. They all said the only people that are worse tippers than US people are Canadians. I have a friend that moved to Costa Rica and now sells real estate. He told me they hate showing places to Americans as most are not going to pay the price. Best buyers they fight over are the Germans. Anecdotal I admit. Maybe someone from another country can chime in.

    I do know we pay less for cars here than most of the industrial countries. I paid about $18,000 less for my Touareg TDI here than someone in the UK would pay. I would have to be a multi millionaire to afford this car in Norway.

    VW Passat base price in Norway = $54,387. In the US = $29,115.
    VW Touareg in Norway: $130,000. In US: $43,995.
    Porsche 911 Carrera 4S in Norway: $262,419. US: $105,630.

    High corporate taxes in the USA are a fact, not at all political. The reason so many companies have moved their operations to other countries.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Fintail: The tax rate thing is funny, as the US also undertaxes the wealthy compared to competitive nations.

    I think that is by design. With 70,000 pages of tax code to decipher and find the loopholes only the very wealthy can afford the tax attorney staff needed to beat the system.

    Being a very small player in the USA puts VW at a disadvantage. If they have to pay $billions to satisfy US for this fairly innocuous infringement, why bother staying in the game? I would bet when VW sorts out the culprits the number of people involved will be small. I really doubt it was common knowledge throughout the company or someone would have blown the whistle.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A follow up on the high prices paid for cars in other countries like Norway. Would anyone in the USA put up with a 4-5 month wait to have their very expensive car repaired? We would raise a yuuuge fuss if it took that long to fix a $20k car. In Norway the government uses their import duties to determine what you drive. So Tesla is a big seller with no import duties. Problem is it is very popular and Tesla service is very lousy.

    Tesla Norway have big issues with long waiting times (4-5 months) and this is just not acceptable. My car have already been in and out of the service center many times because of other issues and leaks and the service center did often just make things they “fix” even worse!

    And now this issue and the ridiculous wait time just make me want to buy something else. Its really annoying to have bough my first new car ever (P85D delivered in April 2015) And I feel the service is worse than you get after buying a old $500 used car at the corner.


    http://cleantechnica.com/2015/11/27/tesla-service-wait-times-in-norway-getting-looong/
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited March 2016
    Friend's got a 1998 TDI TDI @ 8 NOK new it was $56,250 US. Thisinclude 25% sales tax.

    So I'm not sure why would one would want to dial- down the trigger level of " insult". ( hair trigger insult) So if ones really math challenged, this particular TLC is 18 years old. Some folks are having a cow with a $2, 000 diesel premium. As I've said any number of times, it's easier to get around this premium.

    Today (several days ago actually) @ 14 NOK per liter RUG & 10 NOK ULSD per liter= $4.73 per gal.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
    ADVANTAGE diesel AGAIN! http://www.gizmag.com/federal-mogul-piston-coating/42594/

    17% to 14.45 to 11.05% (35% vs only 15%)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Let me know when 200,000 people wait in line overnight to put down a $1,000 deposit just for the chance to buy a car with fancy piston coatings in it two years down the road. :D

    It is pretty interesting how much tweaking goes on with "old" tech.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
    Well for sure not many! I understand that in the old Tesla, the statistical chance of needing a chassis overhaul by 60,000 miles was in the neighborhood o 67% to 87% of the models fleet!!! . If diesels had those kinds of miles and percentages, I wouldn't touch diesels with a 10 foot pole !

    That 198,000 people would put $1000 to overpay for untested (poor ) reliability & durability technology, is a tribute to the poison KOOL aid swallowing persuasive abilities. Who was that guy PT .....
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2016
    Bad Karma?

    Oops, wrong company. ;)

    Interesting hype about Tesla - I don't remember the Prius attaining such "Apple fan boi" status even back in the day of Dicaprio and the red carpet premiers.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
    WAY different Prius dynamics! As long as Toyota could keep it on the market, it could sell the all you can sell buffet of fuel guzzlers! .

    Normal car OEMs would KILL to have 198,000 people lining up for a specific modellet alone @ MSRP & /or above! The real & absolutely crazy thing is that Tesla actually gets government/s tax CREDITS for each sold ! To boot, taxes on "profits" are essentially zero ! The rest of the bountiful details are essentially opaque.

    But to keep it interesting, here's the latest 411! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-model-3-profitable-151416006.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
    This link does NOT hint buyback. If I had to guess from this article alone: It hints at leaving the TDI's 2009 to whatever alone, paying a fee for operating them as they ARE, & move on? The BHO admin wants to give VW A & VW Corp a haircut. I don't think it will be a dagger to the heart due to US investments like VW Chattanooga, TN. What do you all think ?
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-volkswagen-may-miss-deadline-153019750.html
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    2017 Volkswagen Golf SportWagen Alltrack is precisely what I have wanted all along. Now that VW has made their TDI persona non grata in the USA, it is doubtful they will still have me as a customer. I fell in love with the Sportswagen first time I saw it. Like my 2005 Passat Wagon it was the size I was looking for. Just getting in and out of low slung vehicles was trying on my back. Now they have the All Track that is higher and I am assuming easier ingress and egress, and no TDI. Makes it difficult being patriotic when the government does everything in their power to keep high mileage great driving cars out of our reach. Just have to keep slogging along in my 26+ MPG Touareg TDI. Doubt the new Alltrack is in the same league. To be made in USA is a real plus.


  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
    While I love the concept & look of the modular Golf, personally I have not nor would be a GSW (Golf Station Wagon, all track ) buyer.: diesel or otherwise.

    Diesels or not, it can be perplexing (for such an engineering based company) why VW has such issues hitting the longer term USA sales numbers @ 800,000 to 850,000 units (their stated unit goals 4.5% of yrly sales of 17.5 M) ! ? With Golf, Jetta, Passat, small CUV, small PU truck, & misc. models , it is easy to do the math. If VW could sell 150,000 to 175,000 units per model, they would be in TALL cotton.

    VW seems to stubbornly ignore the USA large car to light truck dominate (75%) markets and concentrate in the smaller 25% small car market. It seems to be a down hill no brainer from there. It does make you wonder if they are that clueless, or that as one of the largest car companies in the world, just waiting for THE right moment & like a snake shedding its old skin.!?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2016
    VW has always been a bit oblivious to the US market. Not sure on the details but I think it was the Rabbit that endured endless complaints from owners about the brake pads squealing. VW couldn't figure out why - all their testing showed no problems.

    After months (years?) of owners and dealers yelling, they finally sent some engineers over here and they determined that the brake pad material wasn't suited for the humidity levels of a large part of the US. When they re-spec'd the materials, the complaints went away.

    At least that's my memory. :)
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    edited April 2016
    I have to agree that VW doesn’t seem to “get” America. Or is it more like they don’t really care about the American market?

    I remember the 1960’s and VWs. They were the first foreign car that most people of my generation had any experience with, or exposure to. And the Beetle really was foreign. I remember when my friends and I thought of the Beetle as not so much a “car” as an alternate form of transportation.

    As in, you had cars, trucks, motorcycles, and …. VWs.

    They seem to be doing very well globally these days. Maybe they will just abandon the US market. They have such a small market share here, it probably wouldn’t hurt them, or at least very little.

    VW seems to have pretty much abandoned the corner of the market that they originally inhabited, at least here in the US. I remember when the Geo Metro came out, about 1990? My brother bought one, a couple of my friends as well. Once again, it was thought of and purchased more as an “alternative to a car” than as a car. Anyone else remember driving a Geo Metro with non-power steering? You didn’t need a gym membership if you drove one of those every day!

    These days, the Honda Fit and it’s kin fit the same bill. At least kinda / sorta. @qbrozen had a Honda Fit for a short while, and a Nissan Leaf before that. From what he posted here, neither was very successful at replacing a real car.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
This discussion has been closed.