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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    They do the same thing here, I know the MB has a specific route for test drives. I've pressed on and took it on my own route - I like to have a moderate acceleration stretch, a rough road, a place for braking, a sharp corner, etc. I remember years ago when I test drove a MB C43 AMG, the dealer just threw me the keys and let me go - that was cool.
    gagrice said:


    I would say that is about average for So California car dealers. They always go along and give you a turn by turn direction. Was that way with Subaru, Toyota, Chevy, BMW, MB and most VW dealers. The VW dealer I bought from let me drive as far up the coast and then inland for well over an hour test drive of the Touareg TDI. He did not care how long or how far we drove. He seemed to be enjoying his time away from the dealership.

  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    fintail said:


    Regarding the TDis of the era, a co-worker had a new 04 (.5 - more chrome trim) Jetta TDi. Mechanically fine, but it had numerous electrical issues. My favorite is when the stereo died, he took it in for a replacement under warranty, they returned the car to him with the stereo installed but the dash still half disassembled. I was with him when he picked it up, had to laugh.

    The worst I ever encountered, my ex-wife had a new Mustang GT, early 90's. While still fairly new, the dealer service department had to disassemble the dash. I really don't remember why, vague recollection that it was strange noises emanating from the dash.

    My wife went to pick up the car, and called me, practically in tears. They had absolutely ruined her new Mustang. I took off work, and went down to the dealership to sort things out. It looked like someone had exploded a "grease bomb" in the interior of the car. Grease on the seats, on the carpets, on the headliner, all over the dash. The back seats (which almost don't exist in a Mustang) had grease on them.

    I told the dealership manager (not the service manager), that it was a new car or a lawsuit, his choice. He said he would give us a rental car and within one week we would not be able to tell that it wasn't a new car. I allowed him the chance to prove that, and he did. I'm not sure how they managed to do it, but they did pull it off.

    Which begs the question: what ever made them think they could get away with returning the car in that condition?



    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    gagrice said:

    Just glad I got my diesel when I did. By the time the Greenies have their way you won't be able to buy a diesel vehicle any place. I wonder if they are scrutinizing the largest selling diesels in the USA. The millions of diesel PU trucks being sold every year. I bet an F250 Puts out a lot more NOx than my Touareg TDI. I know I looked in the rear view mirror just to see and NO NOx coming from my SUV. B)

    I see you are in CA like myself. I believe that my 2014 Passat will be fixable with a simple software update. I don't know about the Touareg, but it is certainly large enough to fit parts on. But you already use adblue, correct?

    I mention it because considering CARB, I don't think owners are going to be given any choice. It is fix or CA won't issue a registration the next time it comes up. I believe you just got your two year smog, but that doesn't mean they have to renew your registration.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stevedebi said:

    gagrice said:

    Just glad I got my diesel when I did. By the time the Greenies have their way you won't be able to buy a diesel vehicle any place. I wonder if they are scrutinizing the largest selling diesels in the USA. The millions of diesel PU trucks being sold every year. I bet an F250 Puts out a lot more NOx than my Touareg TDI. I know I looked in the rear view mirror just to see and NO NOx coming from my SUV. B)

    I see you are in CA like myself. I believe that my 2014 Passat will be fixable with a simple software update. I don't know about the Touareg, but it is certainly large enough to fit parts on. But you already use adblue, correct?

    I mention it because considering CARB, I don't think owners are going to be given any choice. It is fix or CA won't issue a registration the next time it comes up. I believe you just got your two year smog, but that doesn't mean they have to renew your registration.
    Yes San Diego. And I think it will be a software update. It does use Adblue to cut NOx. I am not worried about losing power. I think it is possible it will use more Adblue. I went over 10,000 miles without the Adblue warning saying I have 1500 miles left before I needed to fill the Adblue tank. All part of my 4 year 48,000 mile B to B full service. Including brakes.

    As mentioned all the Smog shop does is look to see if the exhaust is clean and if any alterations have been made to the emissions system. The CA diesel smog test is a joke.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    For AdBlue vehicles I heard it was software cutting use to get 10k miles per fill. Fix would result in 5k miles per fill, no loss in mpgs.  $5000 will buy LOTS of fills. 
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited April 2016
    texases said:

    For AdBlue vehicles I heard it was software cutting use to get 10k miles per fill. Fix would result in 5k miles per fill, no loss in mpgs.  $5000 will buy LOTS of fills. 

    No doubt about it. I have been very surprised at just how far I have gone on the 5-6 gallons of Adblue. The Jeep Grand Cherokee owners report about 6k miles between fills. According to the VW manual you should get about 15k miles per fill depending on how you drive. City miles use more. They recommend it being topped every time you have service which is 10k miles. SO, if I have to fill in between normal service that $5000 will make me do it with a smile.

    At the current price for DEF from Autozone of $11 per 2.5 gallons, cost per mile would be less than half a cent per mile. $5000 would cover well over a million miles of DEF Blue. At current diesel prices $5000 will pay for my fuel costs at least the next 4 - 5 years.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
    I haven't done this in a while, but when the ad blu lamp came on showing app 1,500 left @ 14,500 of ad blu consumption, it took approximately 4 1/2 gallons of ad blu. The ad blue fill up is recommended at 10,000 miles. I don't like to do it at that time at all. 45% more ad blu " mph" seems to give a much better reading. So 576 oz/14,500= .0397 per mile driven.

    Also the local Napa has periodic sales on a also the local NAPA as periodic sales on Ebola d blu
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Oh geez should be ad blu
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    I was trying to 'get' the joke...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I have the I pad SIRI set to predictive. A lot the time I don't recognize what I supposedly said.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:
    Midsize is too close to full size for me. The GM Canyon/Colorado Crew is 225 inches long. About 3 feet longer than the Touareg. And only 6 inches shorter than the Ford F150 Super crew. I think all the automakers are missing the target for smaller PU trucks. I guess they figure we are a captive audience and have to buy what they offer.

    The good news is the Amarok may be headed to the USA. Still not a small PU.

    http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1411-diesel-duel-chevrolet-colorado-vs-volkswagen-amarok/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I helped put a semi-heavy, unwieldy load in a pickup this morning. Didn't notice the brand but I did notice the 34" liftover height. Pitiful.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    I helped put a semi-heavy, unwieldy load in a pickup this morning. Didn't notice the brand but I did notice the 34" liftover height. Pitiful.

    I loved my 1970 Datsun PU truck. Perfect size for about 90% of what PU trucks are used for. If you haul long stuff put on a pipe rack.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
    When you first posted it, I just nodded my head in agreement! However, after 46/48 years I'm sure THE list of must-have's increased many fold.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2016
    Slow diesel news day! The daughter took the 2009 Jetta TDI down to Santa Barbara for the weekend ! The weather is normally (disgustingly for some) great. Today's weather is NO exception ! I just love this R/T highway& road trip! Next time for sure!

    I'm not sure this is entirely true, but from what I've read of the articles so far, it's looking like 2.71428 cents cpmd: depreciation. ($ 5k for being bad, $ 9k= bb$$'s,$ 1k= VW GW , $ 1.2k IRS tax credit, =$16.2 k- $ 20kpp =$ 3.8k/140,000 miles= ) Should I hold out for original $ pp? B)

    ULSD @ $2.23, RUG @$2.67, PUG@ $2.87.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    gagrice said:

    ruking1 said:
    Midsize is too close to full size for me. The GM Canyon/Colorado Crew is 225 inches long. About 3 feet longer than the Touareg. And only 6 inches shorter than the Ford F150 Super crew. I think all the automakers are missing the target for smaller PU trucks. I guess they figure we are a captive audience and have to buy what they offer.

    The good news is the Amarok may be headed to the USA. Still not a small PU.

    http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1411-diesel-duel-chevrolet-colorado-vs-volkswagen-amarok/
    The Hyundai Santa Cruz looks like it may

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Hyundai is UGLY, But being a diesel I could overlook the Ugliness. Seeing is believing....

    Hyundai surprised everyone with a unique and very much not full-size truck. It’s called the Santa Cruz, and it boasts a unibody design, a compact footprint, and a diesel engine.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I hope the truck looks better when it actually gets to market.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    gagrice said:

    ruking1 said:
    Midsize is too close to full size for me. The GM Canyon/Colorado Crew is 225 inches long. About 3 feet longer than the Touareg. And only 6 inches shorter than the Ford F150 Super crew. I think all the automakers are missing the target for smaller PU trucks. I guess they figure we are a captive audience and have to buy what they offer.

    The good news is the Amarok may be headed to the USA. Still not a small PU.

    http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1411-diesel-duel-chevrolet-colorado-vs-volkswagen-amarok/
    The Hyundai Santa Cruz looks like it may
    gagrice said:

    The Hyundai is UGLY, But being a diesel I could overlook the Ugliness. Seeing is believing....

    Hyundai surprised everyone with a unique and very much not full-size truck. It’s called the Santa Cruz, and it boasts a unibody design, a compact footprint, and a diesel engine.

    Yeah it is ugly. I am hoping the actual truck will look better.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Pardon the double post. Computer is acting up !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    Audi SQ7 TDI! http://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/01/audi-sq7-tdi-89k-euro-price/.

    MONSTER 664# ft of torque @ 435 hp!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    News!? VW 3.0 TDI fix. The $ 500. debit use anywhere & $ 500. .use @ applicable dealer & VW Roadside Assist has been offered.

    I wonder when/if the $5000 for VW being bad will be dispensed ? If they BB $$ the 2009 VW Jetta TDI, I'd be interested in the latest used TDI models 3.0 L they could sell.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-10/vw-said-to-near-fix-for-tainted-3-liter-audi-porsche-diesels

    The lemmings are out in full force on VW diesel gate ! https://www.yahoo.com/news/vw-may-nearing-fix-dieselgate-154500550.html?nhp=1

    I thought this was pretty hilarious: get better MPG ? Nah... Ford got a patent to ...fake it with the noise ! ? I guess those early Honda rice rocketeers were on to something when they said decals made more horsepower http://www.hybridcars.com/ford-patent-suggests-fake-engine-noises-can-save-fuel/ ? :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Drove 536 miles today from Cottage Grove to Turlock, CA. The major gas companies are all about $2.69 for diesel on CC. I hit a new station grand opening that is selling diesel for $2.15 on the CC. Best part I got 31 MPG ripping down Interstate 5. About 4 MPG better without the head wind.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    That's absolutely great ! I hope the trip was very pleasant !

    Slow diesel news day up here!

    Local ULSD $2.57, RUG $ 2.79, PUG $ 2.99.

    The MB GLK 250BT is @ the local dealer for the 30,000 miles service. The major things are oil/oil filter, changs, I'm sure they will top the Blue Tec, tire rotation & the normal visual inspections. I'm looking most forward to the hand car was! ;)

    We are getting a look at the 2016 MB C300, 11 k miles, included loaner. The wife likes the GLK 250 BT a lot better & more!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    So is VW just getting ready? (aka, prepositioning) https://www.yahoo.com/news/half-japans-automakers-may-not-040100077.html

    "To make an omelet, you got to break a few eggs" maneuvering an Aircraft Carrier vs a Spec Ops fast boat.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ready for what - sell out to FCA? B)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    Lol! I'm sure they do wish! If anything VW will survive like GM, Toyota, and if the article is prophetic, with a few more etcs,.

    Slow diesel News Day !

    Picked up the MB GLK 250 BT. The service advisor said the 2014 MB GLK 250 BT took 7 each 1/2 liter Ad Blue containers (.92 gal * 128 oz per gal= 117.76 oz/ 30,000 miles = .00393 oz per mile) of ad blue.)

    He was somewhat flummoxed as to how well the vehicle was kept & little to almost no wear on tires, brake pads, discs, BF flush, etc, etc.

    I told him it was a daily commuter (54miles+) that got 36 mpg, on one of the worst congested commuter roads in the nation. It was also a Tahoe, CA commuter also. He just shook his head, said just keep doing what you doing, whatever you're doing !

    This is TMI, but I'm really enjoying using the Mobile One ESP diesel oil (30,000 miles OCI) Evidently the MB diesel was designed with this oil in mind.

    The 30,000 mile OCI seems to also work in the 2012 VW Touareg TDI! @ app 60,000 miles.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited May 2016
    Ruking:
    That's absolutely great ! I hope the trip was very pleasant !

    Had a great time in Oregon. Family, Friends and Flowers. What more could you ask for? I do see we had a good price jump on RUG and Diesel while we were gone. My local diesel stop is up 20 cents a gallon to $2.46. Still a lot better than the 4 bucks a gallon when I bought the Touareg in August 2013. Total cost for diesel $208 for 2530 miles. If anyone had told me I could have that kind of luxury ride for 8 cents a mile 10 years ago, I would say they were looney. Our last vacation in the Sequoia cost 21.5 cents per mile. It is not half the vehicle the Touareg is.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I did learn something on this trip to Oregon. They pump your gas by law in Oregon. The owner has the option to pump his own diesel. Obviously, diesel in its raw form is much safer than RUG or PUG. :p

    The other thing is disconcerting. Only two of about 6 stations sold D2 vs B20 diesel. What happens when if B20 is all that is available? So far in CA I have not seen any for sale. It is always cheaper than straight ULSD.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    I'm not so sure I understand, but for example: Propel sells both B 20 and Diesel HPR ($2.49) My nearest Propel pumps are embedded in the Chevron station ( $2.79 ULSD) !? Back in the day, one would spend extra money for a cetane additive! ?

    The TMI about HPR is that it's about 75 cetane versus 45 cetane for ULSD! HPR being .20 to .30 cents cheaper ! This makes me not @ all inclined to buy B20. So it's almost a no brainer. The other no-brainer is Propels pumps are on the way up and back to North and South Tahoe, CA.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2016
    gagrice said:

    I did learn something on this trip to Oregon. They pump your gas by law in Oregon. The owner has the option to pump his own diesel. Obviously, diesel in its raw form is much safer than RUG or PUG. :open_mouth: .

    lol, maybe the gas jockey union prefers not to mess with diesel either but the option was all they got?

    Guess it really boils down to the semi drivers wanting to do their own fuel ups.

    "A German environmental group has scheduled a news conference tomorrow to discuss the allegations against what it calls “Europe’s dirtiest diesel car.”

    Dieselgate may spread to General Motors, European press reports say (consumeraffairs.com)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    Slow diesel News Day! I was just looking over some of the TDI records (anyone's else's will almost always be different)

    As it turns out, roughly 15,000 miles per year (avg) gets racked on each of the three diesels.(2009 VW Jetta TDI, 2014 MB GLK 250 Blue Tec, 2012 VW Touareg TDI)

    So (grade school) math indicates (15,000 miles per year) 40 mpg-375 gal/36 mpg-417 gal/ 33 mpg-454 gal. @ current prices ((ULSD $2.39, RUG $2.39, PUG $2.73), makes costs for ULSD fuel about as transparent as it gets. Anyone can run the "like model" comparisons.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    stever said:

    Ready for what - sell out to FCA? B)

    So whom else has FCA asked to ... DANCE? FCA ( $10 B company) is frantically playing musical chairs to save as much of the $ 10 B as it can, before the world wide auto industry's "right sizing" is today's news!?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/video/why-ford-won-t-merge-155710690.html

    My take, if folks haven't figured it out, VW is "right sizing" @ the "right" time! Might as well get massive tax write offs & credits & special dispensations, while it's being done!? One major regulatory issue that remains is the ever increasing mpg standards ! No matter how much hate is thrown @ diesel, diesel remains poised to be the mpg answer in the future ! The myriad of reasons WHY remain !
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Fun link - no one wants to tie up with FCA it seems.

    VW is going to be making a big EV push I think.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited May 2016
    stever said:

    gagrice said:

    I did learn something on this trip to Oregon. They pump your gas by law in Oregon. The owner has the option to pump his own diesel. Obviously, diesel in its raw form is much safer than RUG or PUG. :open_mouth: .

    lol, maybe the gas jockey union prefers not to mess with diesel either but the option was all they got?

    Guess it really boils down to the semi drivers wanting to do their own fuel ups.

    "A German environmental group has scheduled a news conference tomorrow to discuss the allegations against what it calls “Europe’s dirtiest diesel car.”

    Dieselgate may spread to General Motors, European press reports say (consumeraffairs.com)
    Some folks are real mental midgets. I bet Holly never tried to sell her VW TDI. Just looking to cash IN.

    Consumers like Passat owner Holly of Oak Harbor, Wash., want nothing more than to be rid of their TDIs. "It has depreciated so much you can't pay anyone to take it yet. You can't drive it because it is so unreliable.

    If her car has been so unreliable why has she kept it? People like that are what is wrong with this country. My dealer has not had any owners wanting to get rid of their VW TDIs. Only people complaining are eco nuts.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    She's stuck with it because it has depreciated so much.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'll wager she was upside down before the "crisis" hit - the dealership up in that area has a rep for being kind of special.

    Today I saw an old 90s era Ford diesel pickup smoking like an unhappy volcano.

    Der Spiegel - believe it when you see it, not a moment before.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Der Spiegel has a distinctive reputation for revealing political misconduct and scandals" per Wiki. They aren't the Guardian.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    stever said:

    Fun link - no one wants to tie up with FCA it seems.

    VW is going to be making a big EV push I think.

    FCA has got issues!

    In comparison to 25% VW diesels, I don't think that notion is anywhere close! I also know that you're not saying that as a result of the VW EV push, that the effort will result in 25% 2016/2017 model year EV sales ! U

    I halfway suspect that VW will try to re-institute diesel sales albeit not at 25%.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited May 2016
    I think Der Spiegel might have also being alarmist about the temperature sensitive engine controls that low-accountability SJW lobbyist groups like DUH were claiming to be endlessly evil and suddenly dropped. Their slow response to the Cologne incident is also telling.

    Per Wiki - not an academically admissible source, but sure.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't read the mag often (the English version that is), but I've been skimming it off and on since my Ds in college German. Ich spreche kein Deutsch (which is incorrect in at least a couple of ways, lol, especially the "little" part).

    "Volkswagen intends to have a fully connected electric car with 300 miles of range that can be recharged in 15 minutes on the market by the end of this decade. That car will sell for less than the price of a conventional car, Stackman says."

    Volkswagen Says It Will Lead In Electric And Autonomous Car Technology (gas2.org)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I am leery of any mainstream media from any location breaking such a story - all media has influence, no matter the country. Modern Germany doesn't seem to embrace any idea of unbiased journalism or unpoliced thought.

    300 miles, 15 minutes, that might be competition for everybody's darling (the one aided by insane trickle down tax lunacy).

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    She's stuck with it because it has depreciated so much.

    I'm with Fintail. Dealers are selling cars at subprime rates. What happened to minimum 20% down? I don't think depreciation is exclusive with VW TDIs. Bet if she put it on Craigslist she would get more than top price. There will be a growing number of people that wanted to buy a VW TDI before they were shut down. No different than 2004-6 when you could get well over book for a VW TDI.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2016
    gagrice said:

    stever said:

    She's stuck with it because it has depreciated so much.

    What happened to minimum 20% down.
    lol, what are you trying to do - start a depression?

    Next someone will come up with a goofy idea that you shouldn't buy what you can't afford. :p
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited May 2016
    I suspect KarMart (the dealer local to the whiny Passat owner) offered her 45% of what she paid 14 months ago (which was probably 110% of MSRP with negative equity or mop and glo), and then she ran and cried, hoping to get in on the gravy train.

    I remember during the bad old days of the 2008 gas price insanity, a friend of mine sold his 04 Jetta TDI for 2K more than he owed - and he rolled over about 3K of negative equity into it at purchase. He was pleased.

    20% down, I don't think that has been a thing since detached residential housing has been affordable to average income workers in west coast metro areas.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think we will be seeing the auto bubble burst before long. Won't be like the housing bubble. But the market will be flooded with cars off of leases and repo cars. I wonder how they get upside down, if they take good care of the car. Just looking at Edmunds trade-in on my Touareg, it is about $5k over what I owe. And we put $zero down. They show it at dealer price of $34,544 which is about $10k more than I owe. I would not sell it for that price. My bet is if Diesels get shut out of the market with increased emission rules, mine will be worth gold.

    If you buy vehicles that hold their value you are better off. My Nissan Frontier has a private sale value only $4k less than I paid for it 6 years ago. I would sell it if someone offers a small diesel PU truck.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Hmm maybe I should look for a gently used E250 when my lease is up instead of an E550 muscle car.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2016
    Based upon my postings, that move would probably be cheaper (cpmd: depreciation) over your typical time of ownership. Edmunds.com posted 43 mpg during a test loop. Im not sure what you would post in a new E550, even as Edmunds.com posted 21 MPG , not that it would really matter?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'm after more than mpg. I think the 4cyl unit is more solid than the 6cyl, which makes it more interesting - if I buy and end up out of warranty, I want less chances of a money pit. The V8 can get to about 30 mpg on the highway, which is cool. The main issue will be finding the exact car I want, which is a full load car in certain colors. Diesels tend to have high option content less than gasoline cars.
This discussion has been closed.