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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Talk, talk and more talk? Well it does beg the question of how the residuals ( of high sulfur scrubbing) can be marketed. Let’s make positive plans to have more talks in the future.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Washington DC’s E power grid has been/is/ continues to be fueled by a older coal-fired plant. Congress, of course refuses to “upgrade” it. What, no solar panels on our nations’ monuments? ;) Good for Goose/Gander routine?

    Here are some of the “uglier sides” of the gasoline side. It starts with why do the 30,000 mile diesel oil and filter changes when 5,000 miles oil & filter changes will do?

    https://youtu.be/QAYSd0WnLBY
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    I guess I have to use the old saying, I'll believe it when I see it ;)

    Right now local greenies want everyone to sacrifice private cars and detached houses in the name of the environment, yet the sacrifice isn't being doled out equally.
    xwesx said:



    This is not to say that the industry is not a major problem, but there's actually quite a bit being done about maritime emissions. They have a long way to go, yet it is a major (and upcoming) topic in the industry. Take a look at recent articles on Maritime Logistics for more info. Here's an example: 2020 Low-Sulfur Rule

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Germany also has higher speed driving and more diesels than Murka - green might be as relative or subjective an idea as middle class.

    If you like your old TDI, mile it up and see if you can break some kind of record.

    Riding a Duck is a dangerous thing in this driving environment (and they won't be making a diesel).
    ruking1 said:



    Can’t have stable E grids & EV’s without massive DEPENDANCE on coal plants outputs. Germany has been/is/remains in the optic’s game..

    It’s good to get a rise (2nd para) ! It’s good one & to many gloss over the realities & cherished myth’s that one confirms of China’s coal plants. It’s funny how the (so called) resist opposition parties are TOTALLY mute about the rise in PVF FUEL prices? The only thing that Congress could agree on: to come together to spend more deficit monies. I thought sleep had befallen. :D Ah, please resume! :D

    Well, it’s pretty obvious China uses THEIR measures of middle class/es, ...not ours.

    I guess I’ll keep my 15 year old TDI diesel & see how long & pass 200,000 miles it will go!? The jury is still out on the 2014 MB. @ 62,000 miles, it’s still a baby. The dealer did top DEF from the last (32,000 miles) oil change. So it does not seem to be a DEF hog.

    Duck folks should be interested in uh, uh, Ducati’s new uh, uh, HQ in uh, uh, Mountain View, CA ( Bloomberg interview)

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    So far the 2003 VW Jetta TDI has had FAR less scheduled & more importantly unscheduled maintenance! So for app 400,000 miles, they’ve been relative troopers! !
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Two new “light duty” diesel PU Trucks !? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/8b765d1d-5cf9-3eae-aa3f-3415dbbc9ddd/ss_the-2018-ford-f-150-diesel.html

    2018 Ford F150 30 mpg (light duty) PU Truck!?

    It’s interesting that Ford is making 5% of their PU truck vehicle fleet as TDI’s, 45,000 units. 2019 GM”s to follow.

    Fuelly.com indicates 17/18 mpg . 76.5 % to 67% better mpg sure does NOT appeal to the majority of new light duty PU truck customers!? @ current fuel prices, that’s approximately $16,000 savings in fuel over 12 years (15,000 miles per year)
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,882
    ruking1 said:

    Two new “light duty” diesel PU Trucks !? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/8b765d1d-5cf9-3eae-aa3f-3415dbbc9ddd/ss_the-2018-ford-f-150-diesel.html

    2018 Ford F150 30 mpg (light duty) PU Truck!?

    It’s interesting that Ford is making 5% of their PU truck vehicle fleet as TDI’s, 45,000 units. 2019 GM”s to follow.

    Wow! Compelling..... veeeeery compelling!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    This is very TMI, but it appears that one engine is a V6, 10 sp A/T and the other I6.(straight)

    Another scapegoat for... diesel gate. https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/77cbed2e-d38b-3443-98fa-1fb774057e61/ss_porsche-exec-arrested-over.html

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/porsche-powertrain-development-boss-arrested-130649787.html
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,882
    Batteries, anyone?! A new way to tour fjords...
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    My 2014 MB GLK 250 BT 4matic is right in multiple (4) sweet spots of NON/but diesel TMI’S. It has approximately one year (15,000 miles) of tread left. This fact & other factors, all conspire to add >1 to 3 mpg better. Thus, it’s an explainaion for 36 mpg for 55,000 miles to 37 to 38 mpg after. Brake pad measurement is @ 9.5 mm @ app 61,000+ miles. 20/20 hindsight has me wondering how a 2014 MB GLK 350 4matic (PUG) would be posting..
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    For some reason, even after instructions, the dealer likes to under inflate tires on the MB GLK 250 BT. The local tire guru will inflate to placard specifications: adding my preferences of PLUS+ 3 psi. A slightly delayed (low fuel indicator) fueling posted 38.5 mpg. (581 miles/15.1 of 17.4 gal)
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    For some reason, even after instructions, the dealer likes to under inflate tires on the MB GLK 250 BT. The local tire guru will inflate to placard specifications: adding my preferences of PLUS+ 3 psi. A slightly delayed (low fuel indicator) fueling posted 38.5 mpg. (581 miles/15.1 of 17.4 gal)

    I always kick up my tires on both rigs when I get home. They rattle off some nonsense at the dealer about Federal regulations. Yet the tire shops will put in whatever you tell them.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    For the general board, TMI

    Tire pressures have always been “rubber ruler” types of FEDERAL, industry standards & theoretical and practical measurements! This can be very very good to ...bad. To cut to the chase, I suspect my TP goes to +4 psi to +6 psi above placard with NON run flat tires. To wit, run flat tires are notoriously more expensive, hard riding, fasr wearing & not as sticky on skipad g’s. All things being equal, the next set of (NON run flat) tires should last easily last 30,000 to 40,000 miles longer than the OEM Dunlop run flats & be way cheaper in $$’s total cost & per mile driven.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Ethanol (10%) ? Too bad no biodiesel (5%) equivalent. Funny, that US farmers say they’re hard pressed to make money without BIODIESEL!?

    For those who like a little TMI :

    ...”Each year, the U.S. produces approximately 15 billion bushels of corn, over 35% of which is directed towards ethanol production. One bushel of corn can produce about 2.7 gallons of ethanol. So, it takes 370 million bushels of corn to produce one billion gallons of ethanol.”...

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ftodddavidson/2018/04/23/the-new-war-over-ethanol-and-how-it-might-affect-you/?partner=yahootix&yptr=yahoo#73964a3d30c5
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Some key issues:1. few replacement farmers, less than 1.1 M farmers (owners, leaseholders), 2. farmhand jobs go unfilled, 3. so % crops that do make it to harvest can be wasted. 4. powers that be want less land in plant (corn), 5. even as processing plants have way more capacity.

    Well, we can make AA ( alcoholics Anonymous ) more business by flooding the bourbon markets? :(B) (booze has 73% taxation)

    37 mpg (last fill 14.8 gal.) MIGHT be a new normal (from 36 mpg) given 5W30 (vs 5w40) ESP Mobil 1 oil.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have put about 650 miles on the Touareg TDI the 8 days my daughter was visiting. Mostly site seeing with 3 trips to over the hill to Las Vegas. First tank since the Diesel gate mod yielded 24.1 MPG. A mix of city and highway driving. Most highway driving at 75 MPH. I will need to run a few more tanks before I can make an assessment. It for sure is cleaner running. After 500 miles very little black soot on the rear window and tailgate. Power wise driving no significant difference. Glad they are supplying the Def if it is going to use more.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,882
    That doesn't sound too bad, Gary! I was looking at my fuel logs on the Q7, and, while this isn't definitive by any means, my average economy for the first three months of winter (October through December) was 1.1 mpg higher than my average economy for the last three months (January - March). The emissions modification occurred on 1/2-9/18, so it made for a good break in records. The average temperature during that second three month window was likely lower than the first, but I doubt by too much (overall).

    This morning, though, the on-board computer noted my drive into work today (which is our first above-freezing morning in a long, long time (about 38-40 degrees)) was 29.0 mpg. So, still not a bad showing.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Fuelly.com puts a lot of 2014 MB GLK 250 BT’S @ 34 mpg. A lot of GLK 350’S (like model gasoline) are @ 21 mpg. (Ours 36 to 38 mpg) Torque ON! Forward looking research, 20/20 hindsight has/had me glad, for it would seem that MB has made a good car (2014 GLK 250 BT) & twin turbo diesel!?

    Given what I have said in the past, ANY late model car (diesel, gas, gas hybrid, E85, EV) should be able to make it to the first major tuneup (@ 100,000 miles to 120,000 miles) The 2nd 100,000 to 120,000 miles (200,000 miles to 240,000 miles), that’s the real first test.

    To wit, the 2nd 100,000 miles (15 years on the 2003 VW Jetta TDI) came & went (turtling along) with relatively no drama. (in contrast to gasoline like models) I’m electing to do the “tune up” @ 220,000 miles +. (app 1 year @ current use) It’s still post 48 to 52 mpg. It uses app 1/2 L per 25,000 to 30,000 miles.
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    MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 244,245
    edited April 2018

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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,882
    That's great news. I hadn't even considered a CX-5 previously, but, if they actually do make them with diesel, I will take a look!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    It’s good to see more diesels hitting the US markets.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Now for a C250d wagon.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Local NAPA TMI: 2 for $25 2 each 2.5 GAL DEF.

    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/bosch-says-made-breakthrough-save-102115089.html

    Robert Bosch
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Ford’s loading up on SUV’s! http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/04/25/ford-is-killing-off-nearly-all-its-cars-in-favor-suvs.html

    My, my how far we have come from the closed down “ I hate SUVs, why don’t you? topic.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    edited April 2018
    Nowadays CUVs (many, including those in fake news media, call them SUVs but they are not) can attain the same mileage as normal cars of not too long ago. Add in some image and easier ingress/egress and maybe hauling ability, and they make sense. Butch wagons.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    My father had two station wagons in the early to mid 1980’s. For @ least 35 years + plus, NOTHING in the station wagon’s designs nor oem offerings has encouraged more volume or even %’s.

    Even shame/scoff bully boy tactics advocates aren’t convinced enough to buy. Indeed not even you have a station wagon, not to mention TDI,

    VW’s Jetta TDI “JSW” has enjoyed niche status. It even enjoys much greater resale value over the sedan model. VW statistics indicate 85% of JSW’s are TDI’s. How this (station wagons) goes forward (VW Golf Alltrack) , sans TDI’s remains to be seen.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    It's 90% image. Image is everything. That being said, old money has been attracted to the E wagon for a long time.

    I don't drive one because there's no new offering with a powerplant I really want that I can also realistically afford. I'd drive an E63 wagon over a sedan, if I had that kind of scratch.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    I’m not sure what you mean by 90% image. Or is that code for: do what I say, not what I do? Edmunds the.com indicates the station wagon was the former/now minivan, aka., quintessential family, soccer mom segment. To our north, the sanctuary city of San Francisco, the station wagons are almost an oxymoron with 31,000 vehicle “smash windows & grabs” per year. YUGE irony here!

    You & you posts illustrate my point/s. Even you can’t see your way to the station wagon fan boy/girl niche. With VW out of the TDI game, there are even less precious little TDI options in the seeming ever shrinking SW/station wagon segment. Less buyers, shrinking product selection. There are no complicated factors here.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,882
    edited April 2018
    fintail said:

    It's 90% image. Image is everything. That being said, old money has been attracted to the E wagon for a long time.

    I don't drive one because there's no new offering with a powerplant I really want that I can also realistically afford. I'd drive an E63 wagon over a sedan, if I had that kind of scratch.

    Yes, a lot of it is image, for sure.

    However, some of it has to do with space and load-hauling capacity. Nowadays, it seems like leg room is not nearly the scant commodity it was for so long, but having additional head room in an "SUV" such as a Forester, which originally had very little leg room just like the Impreza platform that spawned it, is appealing. And, if I can use it to haul large items, too? Sold. AWD is just icing on the cake.

    Back then, though, one would give up a fair bit of fuel economy for all that convenience, so there was a trade off. That gap continues to narrow more and more.

    If I could get a wagon with AWD and was roomy but had no pretenses of "SUW/SUV/CUV" or the like, I would certainly consider it. Honestly, the Ford Flex is that exactly. It is, in no way, one of those semi-off-road go-anywhere sort of vehicles (it doesn't toss that image about at all). People who buy it realize just how amazingly it fits the bill for "do everything." That image, though.... so many buyers don't even look at stuff like that because they want the image.

    Me? I find that I just want diesel nowadays. If Ford had their new V6 diesel in that thing, I would be running to the dealership! Instead, I'm going to sell the Q7, sit tight for a bit, and see where things go. I might get a lightly used diesel Cruze hatchback with a manual in the meantime because, lets be honest... I don't really NEED another do-everything car; my major hesitation is the lack of AWD on that one.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    The (Dad’s) 1986 Toyota Cressida’s (detuned Supra’s ) engine while powerful, did not compensate for 1. lower mpg, 2. exposed cargo areas, 3. lack of front / 4. rear leg & 5. headroom. 6. more

    The Ford Flex looks (to me) like a modified shoebox. But more importantly, did #/#’s of buyers make it profitable to Ford?

    V/I 6 TDI 425+# ft of torque would certainly get me to look.

    Buy? Buyers have voted! https://finance.yahoo.com/m/09cd7c60-3944-3238-bc83-1a86d21e7cb9/ford-says-only-mustang,-focus.html
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Exactly, image. Soccer mom, but 1970s version. The wannabe-exciting new Stepford set finds that about as appealing as a dead donkey. The minivan is basically tied there too, although some supposed SUVs (like new style Pathfinder) appear to just be SWB minivans with conventional doors.

    My desire for a wagon is stunted by lack of either powertrain, lack of model, or both. Offer me a C250d wagon, and I'll place an order tomorrow, and keep it for a long time. E400d wagon would be a financial stretch, but also tempting.

    People who don't like the SF and environs are free to leave. Petty property crime in densely populated areas is a reality everywhere, especially as the socio-economic chasm widens in this new Belle Epoque. I also don't see data showing cars and wagons are more likely to be prowled than tall wagons/CUVs. Looking at housing prices, it doesn't appear many are fleeing the bay. Something must be right, and some should embrace the boom, or the lucky generations wouldn't be even luckier cashing in ;)

    ruking1 said:

    I’m not sure what you mean by 90% image. Or is that code for: do what I say, not what I do? Edmunds the.com indicates the station wagon was the former/now minivan, aka., quintessential family, soccer mom segment. To our north, the sanctuary city of San Francisco, the station wagons are almost an oxymoron with 31,000 vehicle “smash windows & grabs” per year. YUGE irony here!

    You & you posts illustrate my point/s. Even you can’t see your way to the station wagon fan boy/girl niche. With VW out of the TDI game, there are even less precious little TDI options in the seeming ever shrinking SW/station wagon segment. Less buyers, shrinking product selection. There are no complicated factors here.

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Ingress and egress are also big, as oldsters have so much purchasing power, but definitely, mpg is a big deal. A blobby CUV today can attain better mpg than a normal car 25 years ago. Combine that with some utility, and it makes sense. The image is, if anything, what might push one into a sale.

    I want diesel too, and hope MB can let the US rejoin the first world and have it offered again.
    xwesx said:


    Yes, a lot of it is image, for sure.

    However, some of it has to do with space and load-hauling capacity. Nowadays, it seems like leg room is not nearly the scant commodity it was for so long, but having additional head room in an "SUV" such as a Forester, which originally had very little leg room just like the Impreza platform that spawned it, is appealing. And, if I can use it to haul large items, too? Sold. AWD is just icing on the cake.

    Back then, though, one would give up a fair bit of fuel economy for all that convenience, so there was a trade off. That gap continues to narrow more and more.

    If I could get a wagon with AWD and was roomy but had no pretenses of "SUW/SUV/CUV" or the like, I would certainly consider it. Honestly, the Ford Flex is that exactly. It is, in no way, one of those semi-off-road go-anywhere sort of vehicles (it doesn't toss that image about at all). People who buy it realize just how amazingly it fits the bill for "do everything." That image, though.... so many buyers don't even look at stuff like that because they want the image.

    Me? I find that I just want diesel nowadays. If Ford had their new V6 diesel in that thing, I would be running to the dealership! Instead, I'm going to sell the Q7, sit tight for a bit, and see where things go. I might get a lightly used diesel Cruze hatchback with a manual in the meantime because, lets be honest... I don't really NEED another do-everything car; my major hesitation is the lack of AWD on that one.

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Yes ! It’s pretty simple: sans station wagons! ;) Most of your entitled brethren aren’t buying station wagons with/out TDI’s. It’s clearly evident even Mercedes-Benz isn’t stepping up to what you say you want.

    Funny that you should say people are free to leave the SF Bay Area. They are in droves ! The entitled ruling set have been targeting what neighborhoods to downgrade, by herding the homeless to: “affordable” &/or temp housing, porta potties, mobile cleaning crews with equipments , etc. I’m sure the operating model is coming YOUR way, if it is not already in use.

    But on the other coast, Bloomberg just reported $ softness in the Hamptons real estate inventory. Seems you too, can get a deal.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Lucky generation calling others entitled, funny man! B)

    MB wants max profit for minimum effort without thought of future implications, and is catering less and less to brand traditionalists. It's that simple.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    One can say profit, but brand traditionalists realistically do NOT guarantee survival! But really it’s no issue being on the wrong side,... of the (your) MB fantasy. I get the feeling you’ve already kissed and made up with MB.

    Porsche had to face this survival issue with their mid size CUV, Cayenne, 16 to 25 years ago. To the Porsche Purists that was pure heresy! Some say it was Armageddon! But the (VW) midsize CUV SAVED the company. Anyone can Google the rest of that history.

    Here’s GM’s sedan scramble ? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/could-chevy-impala-next-american-154000550.html

    To me, all this hub bub is advantage diesel ! Diesels are the keys to 30 mpg + plus PU trucks, etc.

    Too much gasoline engine oil zaps power?
    https://youtu.be/qOmMDF8sNro

    But the 2.1 L biturbo diesel engine is fine with 7 qts. It’s another clue why 31,068 miles oil & filter changes are no big deal.

    Ford look. https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/ford-might-regret-killing-cars-183225831.html
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Fintail: Ingress and egress are also big, as oldsters have so much purchasing power, but definitely, mpg is a big deal. A blobby CUV today can attain better mpg than a normal car 25 years ago. Combine that with some utility, and it makes sense. The image is, if anything, what might push one into a sale

    I don't see Image as much of a factor, unless you are driving a Porsche Cayenne, Escalade or Range Rover. The millions of CUVs on the road all look alike. Kind of kills any soccer mom status symbol. Something quite stunning here in Nevada is the lack of SUVs or any vehicles lined up at the schools, morning and evening. I guess when the state has free school buses parents use them. Our California school district charged $500 in advance for the school year per kid.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    fintail said:

    Lucky generation calling others entitled, funny man! B)

    MB wants max profit for minimum effort without thought of future implications, and is catering less and less to brand traditionalists. It's that simple.

    MB lost me when they wanted more for less back in 2013. I don't for a second regret buying the VW Touareg TDI over the ML350 Bluetec or the BMW X5 35D. The Mercedes was over priced and the BMW way over priced. Of course I was right, Zero down 0% financing $7000 under MSRP. Four years later a nice gift for my pain and suffering just over $10k and an additional warranty out to 120,000 miles. Over 47k miles and $0 out of pocket to date. Oh I did buy Pirelli tires and one 2.5 gallon jug of Peak DEF which is in the garage just in case I need it. I have a new very responsive dealer Findlay North VW which is 71.3 miles from home. At 75 years of age I may never buy another SUV. I love driving the Touareg as much as when it was new. Still hate the NAVTeq GPS, nothing is perfect. Just had the XM Sirius turned on with a special $5 a month promotion. Life is good.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Of course not, but at the same time, the marginal costs of bringing over some more Bluetec variants would be small - these are not new tech, and would be easy enough to federalize. Of course, those costs would bring in a better ROI devoted to another tall wagon, and there we go. MB has had trucks longer than I've been alive, and SUVs for nearly as long, no Porsche style heresy with that. Although 10 different often bloated little CUVs does get tiresome on the eyes.

    I shop MB for a deal. If there's nothing new I want, I can just buy another E250 Bluetec, or maybe do a private import of a diesel G.

    Regarding the Impala, it might have enough fleet demand to keep going, unless rental fleets switch to CUVs en masse - then we'll see real changes in the big 2.5.



    ruking1 said:

    One can say profit, but brand traditionalists realistically do NOT guarantee survival! But really it’s no issue being on the wrong side,... of the (your) MB fantasy. I get the feeling you’ve already kissed and made up with MB.

    Porsche had to face this survival issue with their mid size CUV, Cayenne, 16 to 25 years ago. To the Porsche Purists that was pure heresy! Some say it was Armageddon! But the (VW) midsize CUV SAVED the company. Anyone can Google the rest of that history.

    Here’s GM’s sedan scramble ? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/could-chevy-impala-next-american-154000550.html

    Ford look. https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/ford-might-regret-killing-cars-183225831.html

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Of course, with any premium brand, you are paying a bit for the badge. I could have found a Passat diesel for a lot less than an E, but sometimes, there's more to it. Keeping the Touareg forever?

    Those dieslegate gifts were like winning lottery tickets, and some played it right.
    gagrice said:



    MB lost me when they wanted more for less back in 2013. I don't for a second regret buying the VW Touareg TDI over the ML350 Bluetec or the BMW X5 35D. The Mercedes was over priced and the BMW way over priced. Of course I was right, Zero down 0% financing $7000 under MSRP. Four years later a nice gift for my pain and suffering just over $10k and an additional warranty out to 120,000 miles. Over 47k miles and $0 out of pocket to date. Oh I did buy Pirelli tires and one 2.5 gallon jug of Peak DEF which is in the garage just in case I need it. I have a new very responsive dealer Findlay North VW which is 71.3 miles from home. At 75 years of age I may never buy another SUV. I love driving the Touareg as much as when it was new. Still hate the NAVTeq GPS, nothing is perfect. Just had the XM Sirius turned on with a special $5 a month promotion. Life is good.

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Many young moms I know turn up their nose at a minivan or wagon, and want something with ride height and a little bit of butch styling. They are still the key demographic for these, in second place, maybe oldsters.
    gagrice said:


    I don't see Image as much of a factor, unless you are driving a Porsche Cayenne, Escalade or Range Rover. The millions of CUVs on the road all look alike. Kind of kills any soccer mom status symbol. Something quite stunning here in Nevada is the lack of SUVs or any vehicles lined up at the schools, morning and evening. I guess when the state has free school buses parents use them. Our California school district charged $500 in advance for the school year per kid.

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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Fintail: Regarding the Impala, it might have enough fleet demand to keep going, unless rental fleets switch to CUVs en masse - then we'll see real changes in the big 2.5.

    Not sure what the rental agencies are buying. My daughter from Indiana drives an Outback and wanted something similar for her vacation. She got a brand new Nissan Murano which she liked driving from San Diego to Pahrump. She is 43 and has not owned a sedan for a long time. I bought her a used Ford Ranger right out of High School. She drove it 4 years until she got married and had a kid. She had a high paying job and bought a Honda CRV that she hated. Ended up with a full sized GMC PU. She is now on her second Subaru and will likely stick with them. CUVs are now the best selling vehicles in just about every brand.

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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Fintail: Of course, with any premium brand, you are paying a bit for the badge. I could have found a Passat diesel for a lot less than an E, but sometimes, there's more to it. Keeping the Touareg forever?

    Those dieslegate gifts were like winning lottery tickets, and some played it right.


    The VW Touareg is comparable if not superior to the Mercedes ML SUVs. Comparing a Passat to an E is really apples to oranges. I liked driving both the ML and Touareg. Not fond of the shift on the column on the MB. Really not fond of the price, $20k more comparably equipped to the VW. General attitude of MB dealers was not to my liking. There around the block test drives are annoying as well. The VW dealer I bought from took us out for at least an hour drive up the coast. Not in any hurry to get back like the MB salesman. Without diesel option I would not have wasted my time driving to the MB dealership. I am in good health now, but who knows what tomorrow will bring. 4 more payments and the VW is free and clear. Now all I have to do is talk my wife into a few road trips this Summer.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Yes Dieselgate was a stroke of luck on many levels. I was not sure for a while until I drove it home after the Mod and when the $7300 check came special delivery the next day. Of course buying VLKAY stock at just over $23 per share was an even bigger win in my IRA. Plan to sell when it hits $50. Don't want to be greedy.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    I passed on MB financing.

    On VW’s “ diesel-gate “ : & yes, when life gives lemons, make lemonade! ? ;)
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    edited April 2018
    I think every Nissan aside from the GT-R is in mainstream fleets now. A Murano is a good score for a rental car. As you know, Subaru might as well be the official car of the PNW - they have diesels in other markets too.

    Only MB CUV I'd have interest in would be a GLC, and without a diesel powertrain, it just doesn't make me run to it. I'd prefer a sedan with all else equal. I'd take a C or E wagon over one. Makes a private import old G diesel more tempting.
    gagrice said:


    Not sure what the rental agencies are buying. My daughter from Indiana drives an Outback and wanted something similar for her vacation. She got a brand new Nissan Murano which she liked driving from San Diego to Pahrump. She is 43 and has not owned a sedan for a long time. I bought her a used Ford Ranger right out of High School. She drove it 4 years until she got married and had a kid. She had a high paying job and bought a Honda CRV that she hated. Ended up with a full sized GMC PU. She is now on her second Subaru and will likely stick with them. CUVs are now the best selling vehicles in just about every brand.

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,347
    Sounds like the SD MB dealers weren't too competitive. There are 4 in this general area, and one can play them against each other if they try - the same is true in SF or LA, where they are very competitive, and the real deals can be found. I understand driving to LA to go into car battle mode would be more work than it would be worth.

    I suppose it makes sense the Touareg is the effectively the top of the line product in this market, where an ML isn't. Still, I don't know if an E is apples and oranges to a loaded mainstream brand, but that might reinforce what it has - a Bluetec really only competes with Audi and BMW diesels. I think our friend ruking will attest to the goodness of the little 2.1 - but that engine might be a tad small for your VW.



    I think the surface of the sun weather there in the summer might get her wanting to take a break ;)
    gagrice said:



    The VW Touareg is comparable if not superior to the Mercedes ML SUVs. Comparing a Passat to an E is really apples to oranges. I liked driving both the ML and Touareg. Not fond of the shift on the column on the MB. Really not fond of the price, $20k more comparably equipped to the VW. General attitude of MB dealers was not to my liking. There around the block test drives are annoying as well. The VW dealer I bought from took us out for at least an hour drive up the coast. Not in any hurry to get back like the MB salesman. Without diesel option I would not have wasted my time driving to the MB dealership. I am in good health now, but who knows what tomorrow will bring. 4 more payments and the VW is free and clear. Now all I have to do is talk my wife into a few road trips this Summer.

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited April 2018
    Accurate, but self proclaimed 520 hp V8 “mom” station wagon! Doug’s metrosexual picky picky replacement @ $120,000 for $44,000 + extended warranty @ extra $$’s, 21.7 mpg over 1,200 miles.

    https://youtu.be/-62Dr1JgAh4
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