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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,877
    Increase demand. That's funny. What they don't seem to realize is that there would be practically ZERO demand for the fuel if it wasn't mandated!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Do we hear way too much about bustling sales of E85 fuel? :D Indeed, we’d get better mpg WITHOUT ethanol: E10, E15, E85, E100.

    It almost seems like fake news when they talk about (higher cost fuel) summer travel. How many people do a 2,000 miles vacation? In this case, @ .45 gal more, it’s app $43 more. Realistically, cancel the trip? Pay 4 x more (than fuel) for plane tickets & have to rent a car anyway?
    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/5f56ca3c-2cab-370d-bb75-8cca8d5e4fc7/ss_rising-gas-prices-may-finally.html
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Ethanol, more graft in the era of grifters.

    Funny that the yahoo link can only claim the rate of increase is slowing. Prices are going to keep increasing for a while, however.

    Are we tired of winning yet? Russia will do well, anyway.


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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,877
    edited May 2018
    Higher fuel this summer doesn't bother me one bit. If it means fewer vehicles on the roads when I head through Canada in a few weeks, then I'm all for it! :D

    At this point, though, I do not know whether we will be taking the Q7 or the Forester.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 241,395
    xwesx said:

    Higher fuel this summer doesn't bother me one bit. If it means fewer vehicles on the roads when I head through Canada in a few weesk, then I'm all for it! :D

    At this point, though, I do not know whether we will be taking the Q7 or the Forester.

    So, let them eat cake?

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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,877
    YES!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    Advantage diesel ! Diesels just keep on winning ! (& E-15 losing @ least 5% less mpg?) https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/209b6c5a-6630-3585-b55f-8050ad63aa85/ss_trump-to-allow-year-round.html

    Thankfully I don't have any vehicles that run on that nasty ethanol laced RUG/PUG. Got to bow to the Corn farmers. Take the tariff off of Brazilian ethanol and Cane sugar, and we would see our candy companies move back from Mexico.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Well, travel during “NON’ peak times are normally my choices. Most X country trips are for the most part pretty smooth & constricted is usually near cities.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    The SWAG for E15 (gasoline, 19 mpg @ E10) 2012 VW Touareg would drop approximately 1 mpg for 18.05 mpg. So diesel’s 32 mpg is 77% better. Ranges are: 476.52 miles vs 845 miles.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Why I’m not keen on a a lot of (fully loaded) options. One example, the wife didn’t like start/stop on a brand new, low mileage MB dealer loaner.
    https://youtu.be/L7524u5w4ZE
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Scotty Kilmer, fingernails on a chalkboard, nothingburger, etc.

    Start/stop is deactivated by a button my car, and I think software hacks can deactivate it permanently.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Lol. Don’t know him from Adam, but obviously, some do.

    Sone can get hung up in the example, missing the point.

    Nonetheless, I’m glad the least # of stuff I don’t want/need (i.e., no start/stop) are on my diesels!

    Advantage diesel !
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    The point being Luddites don't like technology even if it is easily defeatable? ;)

    Your 14 doesn't have it?

    Modest ~120 mile road trip this afternoon, 43.6 mpg per the car, advantage diesel indeed.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Luddite offspring might like crappy fru fru on their machines. ;) But, its time to get a grip.

    14 does NOT have it!

    Yes. Advantage diesel!
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    I wonder what year it started, my 16 has the same engine and has it. But I can turn it off at the press of a button - I even did it today, as it messes with my dashcam. No skin off my back ;)
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    14 mb blue tec engine doesn’t need on/off, start/stop :p button. What makes you think there is any skin off mine? :D

    Another question not even addressed, given stop/start low mpg commute nightmare. What saved mpg are practically talked about? I’m assuming it’s close to zero.
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 241,395
    ruking1 said:

    My 14 blue tec engine doesn’t need on/off, start/stop :p button. What makes you think there is any skin off mine? :D

    Another question not even addressed, given stop/start low mpg commute nightmare. What saved mpg are practically talked about? I’m assuming it’s close to zero.

    I don't know what it is on a diesel, but on a gas engine BMW, it's about 0.5 mpg.. If you have that on your whole fleet, that's a big deal for CAFE

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Whether or not an engine needs it is something else - but other models with the same engine have it. I'm not the one who was griping about goofy new tech, I was griping about the gripers ;)

    I suspect it is more of an on-paper savings than something for the real world - as mentioned, it helps CAFE, not people. The system confuses my hardwired dashcam (which thinks the car is being parked), so I usually push the button, and don't think about it for the rest of the drive.
    ruking1 said:

    14 mb blue tec engine doesn’t need on/off, start/stop :p button. What makes you think there is any skin off mine? :D

    Another question not even addressed, given stop/start low mpg commute nightmare. What saved mpg are practically talked about? I’m assuming it’s close to zero.

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Yes, aka., low hanging fruit. It’s a way over the top advantage for diesels ! Just imagine the same fleet cited getting 32/34 mpg vs 19/20 mpg? :DB) Keep in mind mandatory E15 & year round will probably drop that another -1 mpg (18/19 mpg). That is a YUGER negative for CAFE.

    It begs the obvious question. Why would anybody in their right minds want 32/34 mpg, when 18/19/20 mpg are just fine? :p
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    fintail said:

    Whether or not an engine needs it is something else - but other models with the same engine have it. I'm not the one who was griping about goofy new tech, I was griping about the gripers ;)

    I suspect it is more of an on-paper savings than something for the real world - as mentioned, it helps CAFE, not people. The system confuses my hardwired dashcam (which thinks the car is being parked), so I usually push the button, and don't think about it for the rest of the drive.

    ruking1 said:

    14 mb blue tec engine doesn’t need on/off, start/stop :p button. What makes you think there is any skin off mine? :D

    Another question not even addressed, given stop/start low mpg commute nightmare. What saved mpg are practically talked about? I’m assuming it’s close to zero.

    Right, so Ill accept ZERO mpg benefit, as the answer. The pattern seems to be wanting/needing the extra cost & way overpriced stuff/options to which one (self) admittedly don’t really know about nor seemingly care what the benefits are?

    TMI & longer term: It’s one less option that can/does fail or needing expensive repairs, naturally AFTER the expired warranties.

    Simply wanted are opt in/out options, just like diesels. There has been consistency on this issue. Misdirection is often used to attempt to hide who is REALLY griping. :D

    So for another example, Consumer Reports did an eye opening (pun intended) report (YUGE expose) on the efficacy of those DECADES OLD options; “super expensive xenon/LED” lamp “light up the way” options. While it didn’t surprise me, most oem xenon/LED options didn’t make the CR cut, let alone being cost effective. A few for sure were considered barely adequate

    To wit, I’ve opted OUT of these options on three (of 4) diesels. B)
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Just press the button or install the software hack, and it's done. I find it to be silly tech too, but it doesn't really irk me. The starters are supposedly designed to last 8x as long as prior models, and I haven't heard of any legit claims of premature failure, so nothing for which to lose sleep.

    If only we had the headlight options of first world Europe, who typically leads the way, while we get dumbed down versions - the LED lighting in US market MB is different from Euro spec cars, and no doubt not superior.



    blockquote class="Quote" rel="ruking1">
    Right, so Ill accept ZERO mpg benefit, as the answer. The pattern seems to be wanting/needing the extra cost & way overpriced stuff/options to which one (self) admittedly don’t really know about nor seemingly care what the benefits are?

    TMI & longer term: It’s one less option that can/does fail or needing expensive repairs, naturally AFTER the expired warranties.

    Simply wanted are opt in/out options, just like diesels. There has been consistency on this issue. Misdirection is often used to attempt to hide who is REALLY griping. :D

    So for another example, Consumer Reports did an eye opening (pun intended) report (YUGE expose) on the efficacy of those DECADES OLD options; “super expensive xenon/LED” lamp “light up the way” options. While it didn’t surprise me, most oem xenon/LED options didn’t make the CR cut, let alone being cost effective. A few for sure were considered barely adequate

    To wit, I’ve opted OUT of these options on three (of 4) diesels. B)

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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,877
    fintail said:

    I wonder what year it started, my 16 has the same engine and has it. But I can turn it off at the press of a button - I even did it today, as it messes with my dashcam. No skin off my back ;)

    Oh, wow. I didn't even consider that little hiccup (dash cam interface), but I can certainly see how that would be true! :(
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    kyfdx said:

    ruking1 said:

    My 14 blue tec engine doesn’t need on/off, start/stop :p button. What makes you think there is any skin off mine? :D

    Another question not even addressed, given stop/start low mpg commute nightmare. What saved mpg are practically talked about? I’m assuming it’s close to zero.

    I don't know what it is on a diesel, but on a gas engine BMW, it's about 0.5 mpg.. If you have that on your whole fleet, that's a big deal for CAFE
    I think it is all smoke and mirrors to appease the CAFE gods. I know my 2005 GMC Sierra Hybrid stop and go was more of a hazard than fuel miser. Rarely got over 16 MPG. Same as the people with the non hybrid 5.3 L V8. According to the dealer they only built 300. I got it highly discounted after it sat for months on the lot. Which was good when I sold it for near what I paid. Found a sucker that had to have a hybrid PU Truck. Came down from Los Angeles with a paper bag full of cash. $22,500 to be exact. SO HAPPY to be rid of that POC. If GMC had just built a 1500 size with a 6 cylinder diesel, they would have not lost a customer for 12 years.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-11/ford-and-toyota-may-find-deep-cuts-hurt?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=bd&utm_campaign=headline&cmpId=yhoo.headline&yptr=yahoo

    We predicted it on Edmunds.com’s “I hate SUVs why don’t you? ” thread. SUV/CUV’S continue to be more conducive to 75% + of PVF buying public. Indeed so-called “compact” cars have been quietly made FAR larger since the 1970’s. Be that as it may, it’s amazing that there still are no % statistics: small cars to med cars up to “light” trucks.

    100 mpg = 15 mpg? 54.5 mpg= 50 mpg = 18 mpg, light trucks? Oh yes! https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2018/05/11/automakers-trump-we-need-1-mpg-standard/602992002/

    https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/auto-executives-meet-trump-gas-mileage-standards-55096848
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    I doubt the stop/start engineers thought of it either. For cams with a parking mode, it is confusing - and I doubt turning the camera off and on constantly is good for it or the SD card.
    xwesx said:


    Oh, wow. I didn't even consider that little hiccup (dash cam interface), but I can certainly see how that would be true! :(

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    The fact that such a ubiquitous add-on (like a dash cam) can affect (your) this circuit is not awe inspiring.

    Far more egregious cover ups, lawsuits & recalls were done @ way cheaper $$’s. :D One that comes to mind is GM’s $.75 ignition part. :D I’m sure VW, MB, has its counterparts.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Some more EPA-49 state /CARB mpg standards? 54.5 mpg in 2025 to: 50 mpg, 36 mpg, 30 mpg? = 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 mpg 2017 light trucks?

    Don’t forget E15 would probably drop that in the real world a minimum of 1-3 mpg.
    https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/auto-executives-meet-trump-gas-mileage-standards-55096848
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Arrived back from my weekend road trip this morning, 45.2 mpg per the car (less traffic), why drive any other way?
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Evidently it’s just fine (for 95% to 97%) if a like model/competitor gets 22 mpg to 23 mpg?

    A relatives 2002 MB E320 (PUG) gets 25 mpg, mirroring our commute slough 36-38 mpg/32-33 mpg/ 38 mpg-42 mpg diesels.

    Even I understand getting 48 to 52 mpg STILL, in the 2003 Jetta TDI is probably obnoxious to most. It’s one gear short of a proper 6 sp M/T. :DB)
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Funny thing, my 2002 E55 AMG, with about twice the hp of that E320, could also get around 25 mpg on the highway, without much care. One of those fun cases where the powerful engine can lazily loaf along and put up equal or even better numbers than a small engine, similar to a Corvette in 7th gear. The older MBs with the 4 speed auto (until maybe 1992-3 or so) are far thirstier on the road - gears help.

    I spotted a ML250 Bluetec on the road - kind of a rare car, not the 6cyl. It was going pretty slow, probably trying to hypermile. I don't bother.



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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    It’s a no brainer to post 25 mpg (on the road) on the 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06. ( V8-5.7L-348 cu in, 6 sp M/T w 10% lower gearing, 385 hp/# ft) With a 18.5 gallon tank, it cannot hit THE STRIP- Las Vegas, NV (from San José airport) without making a fuel stop in CA, or somewhere in NV, if the NV roads are chosen.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Going with the ( literal) flow, north to Vancouver BC, one July 4, it posted 25/26 mpg. Basically it was pass (using eft lane mostly) in 5th gear, completing the pass, moving to right lane, then upshift to 6th gear. Repeat. :DB)
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    edited May 2018
    Going through some old pics, I found this shot after a drive in the E55 - and this included a mountain pass:




    Many cars of this era with half the power couldn't top this.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    I don’t have pictures, but it was a 25/26 mpg tank 30+ more mph. :p

    Some years later, R/T to the Portland, OR area, (app 668 miles) the diesel fuel 2003 Jetta TDI posted only 48 mpg. The top mph were 30 + mph slower. B)

    Now IF was to go the average speed that you had pictured, I know for a fact that it (2003 VW Jetta TDI) would’ve posted app 62 to 66 mpg, for a full tank. B)

    Another almost erie (1,1000 miles leg) road trip with almost no traffic nor LEO’s going from a FL town 95 miles south from Daytona Beach, FL to a business hotel Houston, TX, 12/13 hours from landfall: Hurricane Katrina, aka, steady speed with 1 refueling. The “landing” in Houston was almost surreal! The hotel where I was supposed to have stayed in downtown New Orleans, LA was app 7 feet under water.

    Interesting take on oil/gas. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2018/05/14/the-oil-and-gas-situation-four-big-factors-influence-u-s-oil-markets/#d6f5c0c25d9e

    Advantage to diesel !
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    Steep mountain passes can knock off a mpg or so as well. I suspect my Bluetec could do 45 mpg on a SF-Portland trip and still be passing most cars, I'll sacrifice a few mpg for more speed and luxuries.

    I have my doubts about a 300 mile trip at 90 mph returning 25 mpg ;)

    We can just hope diesel continues to pace RUG rather than PUG. It hasn't always been this way. I also hope there are no price spikes like in 08, I suspect the economy is on shakier ground than many want to admit.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Why do you think they (especially normally aspirated gasoline models) don’t? Sacrificing a few mpg (ULSD) for more speed and luxuries was exactly what was done.

    I’m glad you have doubts about 668 mile trip. I’m sure you think that you couldn’t do it. Maybe one should do more road trips.

    The way that “a” barrel of oil is refined will make sure ULSD paces RUG/PUG. There has already been $$’s price spikes. As for the economy: it’s the best of times/worst of times.

    But ultimately it’s a great time to be alive! I wish I was 15 years old again!
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    edited May 2018
    300 (or 668) miles averaging 90 mph with 25 mpg? Fake news, pics or it didn't happen ;)

    I meant I hope diesel paces RUG, not PUG. It was once at PUG, now can be had for less than RUG, at least locally. That can easily be a 10% difference - small in the scheme of things, but a gloating point.

    There are pros and cons of today vs the olden days. Maybe the worst "con" is affordability. Education/medical care/housing price to income ratios can be insane now, especially on the west coast.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    As if it’s news to you that pictures are used ALL the time to fake to shade a whole lot of things?...

    CA applied a way higher % tax on ULSD! I hope it’s overturned by the California Supreme Court.
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    andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,808
    I think I did about 7.5 MPG around the Spring Mountain Track in Pahrump, Nevada. I think the big engine cars are capable of posting about 5 MPG.

    These kinds of weekends really throw off the long term fuel calculator.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    From an engine hours point of view....YES! But for purposes of discussion ... NO! But the on the other side of this three headed coin... It’s up to one how both the HP/torque curves are managed.

    Ethanol. https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/paul-driessen/american-consumers-lose-ethanol-gravy-train-rolls
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    There are any number of examples. So goes one joke in hobbyist auto racing. How to make a SMALL fortune in auto racing? Start with a very LARGE fortune.

    I spent time in front line fighters & training its pilots. I have a feeling of how racing gets in the blood.

    When first considering (2002/2003) TDI’s, one of the figures that was very rare and was never in the (VW, MB, BMW, etc.) technical data: a small to medium TDI with reasonablle care, could post app 25,000 HOURS operation time. So with avg speeds of 30 mpg to 60 mpg, they could tick btw 750,000 to 1,500,000 miles. Indeed one parameter was running them at roughly 75% to full rpm (routinely: full torque @ way less rpm), helping trouble free operations.

    20/20 hindsight: VW cheaped out on any number of items. In my anecdotal case, the 2009 Jetta TDI, Bosch fuel pumps could have higher failure rates @ lower cycle miles/times. I’ve documented the failure on mine in past posts. Bottom line: VW paid the repair of the fuel pump failure, out of warranty.

    TMI
    BMW has had a lot of (Bosch) gasoline fuel pump problems.

    The 2014 MB GLK 250 BT @ 62,000 miles, might be bit premature to comment. The oem run flats, however might need replacing @ 70,000 to 75,000 miles. It’s due a rotation @ 65,000 miles, so the tire guru’s will chime in. It doesn’t look to need an alignment.

    EV? The real coal rollers? :D
    https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/05/15/are-electric-cars-worse-for-the-environment-000660
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:
    I can think of many directions to cast blame. Global Warming is not one of them. Kind of like building in Volcano Zone 1. You pay for the good and hope the bad does not show up. Glad my Leilani Lot sold last year. Of course I would never spend big bucks in a known earthquake zone or say Florida that is on sinking ground.

    https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/multimedia_chronology.html
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,341
    You mean "Rift Zone Estates" isn't an appealing name for a subdivision? ;)

    I wonder how many cars worth of emissions Kilauea will burp out this year.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    fintail said:

    You mean "Rift Zone Estates" isn't an appealing name for a subdivision? ;)

    I wonder how many cars worth of emissions Kilauea will burp out this year.

    If you looked at the map you would see Leilani has been lucky over the last 80 years of volcanic activity. I am sure the volcano has put out more pollutants than all the cars in the world.

    https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/multimedia_maps.html
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Yet not even a PEEP from ANY? environmentalists :D ? I bet even the governments’ Fed/state/local ESTIMATES of totally unmitigated emissions from its own managed lands are totally beyond the pale.

    Yet EPA/CARB will have you believe (my two) diesels are public enemies.

    Let’s make a graphic. Niagara Falls flow “leak”, just fine. The washer to ones garden hose doesn’t work, leaking water, you can get on TV & threaten with arrest.

    Affected diesel’s owners got the equivalent of “ the turn in your guns no questions asked “buyback” program prices $$’s while paying more & violating no laws.

    If EPA/CARB actually “TESTED” only samples, this whole brouhaha would probably never have happened.

    ...”We took the 3.0-liter V6 TDI for a spin, and despite the diesel who-ha, it’s still expected to be the best-selling engine in Europe. After a moment of spooling the turbo, the 286-horsepower engine pulls cleanly thanks to a healthy 443 pound-feet of torque.”...

    2019 Euro VW Tourareg TDI, 34 mpg US gal? https://www.yahoo.com/news/2018-volkswagen-touareg-first-drive-090002600.html

    Loved the 2012 VW Touareg TDI!

    I’m actually ready for another one. The BMW X5 can be $20,000-$25,000 USD more.
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    eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    My eldest son the CDL/hazmat driver bought a 2018 chevy cruze diesel sedan stickshift this week.

    It's same car as my 2017, except his is black (cool) with mud-guards (cool) and the blackout-bowtie option (cool).

    His 2011 hand-me-down Chevy Cruze was declared totalled due to left-front hitting a deer at 60mph. Airbags did not deploy, no human injuries.

    Lately as part of his job he has to "splash blend" biodiesel at the refinery, with dino diesel, to achieve the B20 summertime blend that is mandated for diesel in MN. http://www.mda.state.mn.us/renewable/biodiesel/aboutbiodiesel.aspx
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,877
    elias said:

    My eldest son the CDL/hazmat driver bought a 2018 chevy cruze diesel sedan stickshift this week.

    It's same car as my 2017, except his is black (cool) with mud-guards (cool) and the blackout-bowtie option (cool).

    His 2011 hand-me-down Chevy Cruze was declared totalled due to left-front hitting a deer at 60mph. Airbags did not deploy, no human injuries.

    Lately as part of his job he has to "splash blend" biodiesel at the refinery, with dino diesel, to achieve the B20 summertime blend that is mandated for diesel in MN. http://www.mda.state.mn.us/renewable/biodiesel/aboutbiodiesel.aspx

    Congrats to your son!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    Thanks, xwesx; I've passed along your congrats to my son. Maybe he will join the forum here. I wonder if we are the only father/son duo to both own chevy cruze diesels and if "Chevrolet" magazine will feature us some year. Also I remain curious as to the production numbers for these cars, especially the stickshifts. Hundreds???? Btw, seems there might not be stickshift Cruzes in 2019 & beyond.
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