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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    It would be GREAT if the EPA/CARB would grant certification to TDI engines engineered to run B5, B10, B15, B20 to B100.

    But there in lies the conundrum within a riddle within a puzzle. (another EPA/CARB Russian style shell withih shell, etc. COLLUSION=anti diesel ? )

    Biodiesel can be “gotten/harvested “ grown & manufactured etc. etc., without gasoline as a product! Of course gasoline CAN be a product. Biodiesel has ZERO ppm sulfur! Gasoline can legally be sold with 30 ppm to (with off line fee/penalty) 90 ppm.

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that diesel & biodiesel has far less pollutive potential than gasoline. Does that mean I’m an advocate of getting rid of gasoline ? NO!
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,861
    elias said:

    Thanks, xwesx; I've passed along your congrats to my son. Maybe he will join the forum here. I wonder if we are the only father/son duo to both own chevy cruze diesels and if "Chevrolet" magazine will feature us some year. Also I remain curious as to the production numbers for these cars, especially the stickshifts. Hundreds???? Btw, seems there might not be stickshift Cruzes in 2019 & beyond.

    Yes; sad news if true! Reminds me that I need to get off my keister and prep my Q7 so I can get it sold...
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 240,754
    I did a search for Cruze diesel hatchbacks, with stickshifts, the other day. Not sure why. ;)

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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    elias said:

    Thanks, xwesx; I've passed along your congrats to my son. Maybe he will join the forum here. I wonder if we are the only father/son duo to both own chevy cruze diesels and if "Chevrolet" magazine will feature us some year. Also I remain curious as to the production numbers for these cars, especially the stickshifts. Hundreds???? Btw, seems there might not be stickshift Cruzes in 2019 & beyond.

    I could picture a Chevy Equinox 1.6L diesel in my garage one day. I am not quite ready to sell my VW Touareg TDI. It is running great and still fun to drive. Only thing I miss especially on our trips to Las Vegas over the 5500 ft hump is the engine compression braking. Before I could set it at 65 MPH and going down hill it would downshift to hold the speed at 65 MPH. Not since it was modified. I think I have lost about 2-3 MPG as well. If I were to sell and buy the Equinox diesel, hopefully they put an 8-9 speed auto transmission in the diesels. Though it seems fine driving with the 6 speed auto. Fuelly has a few of the Equinox diesels overall average 34.77 MPG with a few getting in the 40s.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Advantage diesel!

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/energy/2018/05/17/fuel-price-jump-offset-tax-cuts-fuel-economy-review-questioned/618399002/

    A long USA Today article ?

    EIA.gov https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=327&t=9

    As of 05/10/2017, a barrel of oil (42 gals crude) yields 20 gal gasoline 11 gals ULSD. (from 19gal 12/13 gal: so in fact to get one more gallon of gas, approximately 1 gallon of diesel is lost) ULSD is fully 35.5% of the yield (gasoline @65.5%) There is of course some wiggle room to get either more or less gasoline/diesel.

    There are of course many takeaways. Here’s one takeaway.

    If one does the math, it is absolutely clear and factual “getting rid of diesel” is a unheard SIREN call for higher GASOLINE use & probably more germane: higher prices. I’ve used the 15,000 miles per year GLK’S 350=23 MPG, 250 BT=36 MPG. The germane question (PUG vs ULSD) which uses more barrels of oil 2 PUG’s or1 PUG & 1 diesel?

    So getting rid of 50 % + Euro diesels MASSIVELY tips the scales toward massive increases in gasoline use. What is overwhelmingly clear is that the EURO 50% plus diesel PVF uses way less barrels of oil than the USA PVF @ 5% diesels.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Another interesting take on why (I) option out/beg off on “LOADED” CUV options. https://www.yahoo.com/news/consumer-reports-warns-exploding-sunroofs-235640264.html

    The 2009 VW Jetta TDI had a sunroof. It added ZERO $’s in resale/buy back value. Three others (my diesels) had/have no sunroofs.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Yes we want it ! No we don’t! Maybe, ...it’s no we want it, yes we don’t? We hate it. We hate to love it. We love to hate it. We do really love coal. Until we .... don't? These are the kind of projects most schizophrenic’s would love ? :D

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/62a41f4a-afa9-3091-b706-1e44875cc9af/ss_trump-administration-plans.html

    Of course, it’s TRUMPS fault.

    So if it’s difficult @ best to put a proposed 4,100 acre SOLAR projects in the desert, where sun shining is as close to 365 days a year than most places, but shaved (24.4%) to 3,100 acres: where should it be? By the time this project builts out, the design will probably be obsolete ?

    Keeping California 50th out of 50?
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The stupidity is not just in California. The other coast is getting in on the solar boondoggle. Follow the money.

    Locals are not happy. The electricity would be exported out of the area, which has been hit by Category 3 and 4 hurricanes and multiple tropical storms over the years. Another big one would likely send glass shards flying all over. Meanwhile, the Tar Heel state averages just 213 sunny days per year and 9 hours of bright sun per day; that translates into electricity just 20% of the year – unpredictably, unreliably, less affordably. Carbon dioxide reduction benefits? None. These and other issues must get a full hearing, before regulators issue any approvals.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/09/01/yet-another-renewable-energy-boondoggle/
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    The “GREEN “ movements are both schizophrenic and psychotic, with the attending consequences. Believers in the movements are probably worse, & with attending intended & UNintended consequences. It really should send chills down the spines of any rational people/s that these kind of apocalyptic cult mantra people have the literal finger on the nuclear trigger of business policy and national policy regulation/s!

    But I would say, read the TMI, form ones own conclusions. Coal has been, is, will remain highly efficient! Despite HOWLINGs to the contrary, it’s becoming more & more clean.

    In the meantime, go diesel! It also has the refinery capability yielding roughly 13 gal to 11 gal per barrel. Gasoline yield flexibility seems to be 19 to 20 gals. Biodiesel can be chemical refined with access to natural gas @ the customer/s site. It can be grown from LG. It can be harvested from rich to marginal lands to oceans. It can be taken from sewer processing plants, recycling & garbage sites. It can be gathered from the waste byproduct of ongoing manufacturing sites.

    I’m surprised that nobody in the green movement says a word about the cost per acre of land! Not surprisingly what are the SOLAR panel grid losses due to grid distribution.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    Took a ~350 mile road trip yesterday, around 43 mpg going, 42 mpg coming back - both surprising as I didn't go slow on the way down, and traffic had some messy spots on the way back.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Documentation of (your) trips confirms the diesel advantages we’ve been discussing throughout the thread.

    The 2014 MB GLK 250 BT has a 17.4 gal tank, whose low fuel indicators go off @ app 15 gal ( 2.4 gal left) so @ 36-38 mpg the range are 540 miles to 570 miles. It’s easy to see a full tank’s (17 gal) range can be more like 612 miles to 646 miles
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    21 gallon tank in the E, if one is on the freeway, 800 miles is in the realm of possibility. 800 miles of pleasure, as it is such a nice cruiser.

    I talked to a MB tech yesterday, who thinks the engine in these cars is the best MB you can buy - he's thinking of buying a GLK 250.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    I made a huge mistake not telling my wife to bring (more than 1) 2 + (2.5 gal) DEF containers with her to the local MB dealer for the GLK 250 BT’s 30,000 miles oil change.The local dealer will top CUSTOMER provided DEF @ no charge. I’ve heard of up to $267 charges to top other MB dealers DEF containers!?

    So while one can say it consumed 5 gal of DEF in 30,000 miles, I don’t have a second/third left over container to give an approximation, or reliable fiqures.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    I made a huge mistake not telling my wife to bring (more than 1) 2 + (2.5 gal) DEF containers with her to the local MB dealer for the GLK 250 BT’s 30,000 miles oil change.The local dealer will top CUSTOMER provided DEF @ no charge. I’ve heard of up to $267 charges to top other MB dealers DEF containers!?

    So while one can say it consumed 5 gal of DEF in 30,000 miles, I don’t have a second/third left over container to give an approximation, or reliable fiqures.

    Trying to get a handle of DEF usage is a problem. Now with VW promising to keep it topped off for 120k miles, I will never know about the Touareg usage. It was not that long ago the anti diesel people were trying to put fear in the hearts of would be diesel owners with those crazy MB charges for AdBlue. Now it is a non issue for sure. With my GMC Canyon I added 2.5 gallons after about 3000 miles when it came up 20% left. The dealer topped it off when they did the first oil change at 6468 miles. Nearing 11k miles and computer indicates OK. I don't anticipate needing an oil change before 15k miles going by the computer percentages. Would imagine they will top it off again. I don't think it was filled at the factory.

    My MPG sure suffers with mostly 3 mile trips around town. The 4 cylinder GMC seems to use less diesel with short trips. We take the Touareg on our trips to Las Vegas. Average about 3 trips a month to See's, bank and Costco. Beautiful drive through Red Rock Canyon.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    It’s not just diesel options being crushed? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/e6b12e19-4868-3cb3-bcb6-c6802936b195/ss_smug-seattle-to-mom-and-pop.html

    Is Seattles’s landscape being decimated one landlord @ a time?
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    For you that love driving a manual transmission vehicle, Kiplinger claims your options will soon go away.

    https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/business/T057-S001-7-things-that-will-soon-disappear/index.html?cid=56&kwp_0=693082&kwp_4=2533981&kwp_1=1073875
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    Diesel car thread or Faux News talking points thread?

    Seattle's real issues in that realm are dopey zoning and offshore buyers. The cool thing about it is if people don't like it, they are free to move - roads go both ways, and most suburbs are better managed than the city itself. The lucky generation who bought housing when normal working people could do so are also free to sell - I would.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    The reasons leading to decimating diesel/s have been demonstrated time after time to BE FAKE news!

    Yes, dopey (dems) zoning laws/ordinances are what the author is saying that are operating.

    So I’ve been following the 7sp M/T (Tremec ) product in Corvettes. A 7 sp M/T would probably be an ideal combination in a 3.0 L T TDI, on up. So I think it’s fair to say that getting a 7 speed MT on the market has been dialed out.

    https://youtu.be/hFwfSZDvUCw
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    You're again linking to a Fox News talking point whine about goofy Seattle rental policies. Maybe relevant to diesel in that you can use a diesel car to drive to the house? Or drive away from the city? I suppose Fox is a great source for fake news?

    I find it funny that the author doesn't even live there, and in fact earns a meal ticket in part due to goofy policies. I don't live there either, it's not my mess.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    No, that’s wrong/incorrect & on all points. The (this) article was posted in Yahoo.com,(more progressive/left) which, if one wanted to continue to read, redirected to another site. This one happened to link/turn to a Fox News site article. In a different lighter colored font, it even cites the news source.

    The subject of this (CNN) article MIGHT be the real reason why diesel fuel is becoming /has become a very hot fuel commodity. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/m/22435c57-5639-3f26-a3a1-d878879c339c/ss_the-gigantic-cruise-ships.html
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    Stop editing your posts hours after they have been replied to. It speaks volumes, and none of them are good.

    Linking to an irrelevant Yahoo "article" (Yahoo is an aggregator) that links directly to Faux is effectively linking to Faux. Yahoo doesn't have a political lean, it posts clickbait from all sides in order to generate revenue.

    Diesel isn't becoming hot simply because of demand - either people have mostly inaccurate bias against it, or because most people don't care, via this, automaker profit margins don't support it. It sells to enthusiasts and cheapskates.



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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    No! B):D Actually cited realities (it) makes the requester look bad.

    Wrong on all counts,...again. But yeah, some folks truly don’t get it.

    Automaker profit margins don’t support a host of products, most of them non-diesel. “Small cars, sedans, station wagons, certain gasoline engines (2 categories are some folks favorites) are just 4 categories.

    There are a host of articles indicating ALL automakers have to adjust to new going forward realities. Indeed, VW has been one of them. VW threw American diesels under the bus. (So-called diesel- gate) Curiously, they want to start a separate diesel bus company.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    Realities? Link or it didn't happen. Calling out someone for being wrong without being able to ante up specifics says a lot about the caller outer.

    Sedans and small cars are viable via oldsters and/or fleet sales. Small profit, higher volume - far higher than any diesel or wagon in this bland market. Wagons are a niche product just a step above diesels. Go talk to a non-car person about wagons or diesels - their eyes glaze over and they start drooling.

    IMO the worst thing VW did was get caught. I have no doubts others have played the same game.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    That’s a standard that you very seldom have lived up to. It’s not hard to see (your) the do as I say, not as I do attitude.

    The segments have been shrinking for years. Are they (the volumes) higher than diesels or wagons? Of course they are!? Station wagons Ye Ha! They will fit horse saddles! All I need are horses & saddles.
    https://youtu.be/85nGyQxlNyA

    If that is the worst thing VW ever did, why do you think they overpaid? ($21 B) Indeed, you agree with the opinion I’ve cited about others playing the same game.
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    MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 243,877
    How about everyone step back from the keyboard, count to 10, then take a deep breath....

    Else we will shut 'er down to allow everyone to cool off.

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    eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    cruze diesel uses about a gallon of DEF per thousand miles.
    (DEF is optional if you are OK with driving at a maximum electronically-limited speed of 4 mph.)

    for the 2017s, dealer provides DEF as well as oil during the 2 free oil changes...

    52 mpg on recent roadtrip to Arlington National Cemetery and the National Cryptologic Museum.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    edited May 2018
    No link, no care. Maybe I should post a link to an irrelevant policy failure in red state land? Do as I say, not as I do - that defines a certain lucky demographic around here with a distinct lack of self-awareness.

    VW wanted it over with, caught red-handed and embarrassed. They were afraid of further political-based punishment, and got out while they could. They can afford it.

    In terms of passenger cars, diesels or wagons - probably a toss up. Carmakers are in the business of maximizing profits, and we'd have more choices for both in this dumbed down market, if more people cared. But in the land of the lowest common denominator, a bloatling CUV simply has more appeal.

    Speaking of DEF, I don't think the Bluetec guzzles it - I go under 10K miles between services, but have never seen a low fluid alert. The car goes in for its annual service in a few weeks, I will try to remember to ask how much it needed. It is included with the standard prepaid maintenance.

    ruking1 said:

    That’s a standard that you very seldom have lived up to. It’s not hard to see (your) the do as I say, not as I do attitude.

    The segments have been shrinking for years. Are they (the volumes) higher than diesels or wagons? Of course they are!? Station wagons Ye Ha! They will fit horse saddles! All I need are horses & saddles.
    https://youtu.be/85nGyQxlNyA

    If that is the worst thing VW ever did, why do you think they overpaid? ($21 B) Indeed, you agree with the opinion I’ve cited about others playing the same game.

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Zzzzzzzzz. Wrong & on all counts again. Starbucks has the new policies for one in the entitled clueless self absorbed class. One doesn’t have to buy anything.

    VW wussies out? They poisoned the environment for the diesel segment, then leave? If one thinks it was a case of just embarrassment, that off base attitude might be a case of extreme knaive. But of course, I’d like to have gotten fired for $60 M USD + lifetime benefits. If anyone could have made a ton of $$ money with @ least day old information, on this (non related) blog no less, imagine what insiders or traders could & have make? Indeed, diesel cheating rumors circulated LONG before, in “more enthusiast” communities. How long ago could VW TDI’s be adjusted by computers? Let’s put it this way, the 2003 VW Jetta TDI (MK IV version) could be adjusted before 2003. Did it really matter then? NO! Does it really matter now? NO! Indeed, the N0X diesel/gasoline different level in the real world cannot be measured. Indeed, I would love to be a diesel buyer in Germany or other European markets: a 2019 VW Touareg TDI, CUV, would be the ticket. VW has committed to more than $25 B to EV drive technologies. This is more than what VW lost in US “diesel-gate”.

    Yes, bloated station wagons ? :D ? Diesels sales @ par to station wagons? I wax nostalgic to no seat belts required. V8 440/428 cu in!
    https://youtu.be/XzXQQ771RuY

    Again, the entitled one posts no links to back up opinion. Again, woke up very late & clueless to sedan & station wagon sales slide? Evidently a whole lot more (buying) people don’t have the disdain for CUV’s, which fit their lifestyles better than one entitled. It seems like the entitled class/es do NOT buy (car) station wagons, nor many small to mid sized cars for that matter. Indeed CUV’s can be crudely viewd as “just jacked up” station wagons!? The auto markets are not dumb down as one has posited with no links. Indeed Ive linked more than a few articles indicating the American markets are terrified!
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,861
    elias said:

    cruze diesel uses about a gallon of DEF per thousand miles.
    (DEF is optional if you are OK with driving at a maximum electronically-limited speed of 4 mph.)

    for the 2017s, dealer provides DEF as well as oil during the 2 free oil changes...

    52 mpg on recent roadtrip to Arlington National Cemetery and the National Cryptologic Museum.

    Considering the cost and level of inconvenience (excepting the Touareg with its cryptic hidden filler), DEF is truly a non-issue. I think that someone bringing DEF up as an argument against diesel is just a way for them to dismiss the notion without true consideration.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Indeed DEF Touareg TDI fill up has app the same inconvenient as going under the hood to refill the windshield washer fluid, only in the rear (trunk) where the spare tire is stored.

    All it needs is a diesel option & it’s a great traveling “homeless“ vehicle!? Great for a seasonal job @ Amazon?
    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/m/117de462-12c7-38d4-818f-c505bc394b0d/ss_california-dreamin’%3A-coastal.html

    Guess it will need a solar array for a microwave option ?

    Wonder if this will have a (US market) diesel option?
    https://youtu.be/NsmWGv5yE8s

    An interesting explanation?
    https://youtu.be/8tk1BycWC9I

    Giving the secrets away?

    https://youtu.be/PsC1hjOQcHA
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Reading the poorly written California camper van article, I would say VW is better leaving them in the EU. MB campers with diesel engines are in several of my neighbors driveways. They are not as expensive as the writer claims in her piece. Not cheap, but far more camper than that mini hippy rig she was driving.

    http://pleasureway.com/pleasure-way-ascent/
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    andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,794
    gagrice said:

    For you that love driving a manual transmission vehicle, Kiplinger claims your options will soon go away.

    https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/business/T057-S001-7-things-that-will-soon-disappear/index.html?cid=56&kwp_0=693082&kwp_4=2533981&kwp_1=1073875

    The last R8 to have a manual was the 2015 model year.

    The problem is regulation. From what I understand, even the exact same car with the exact same engine has to undergo expensive retesting and certification (i.e. Costs $$$$) to satisfy the EPA and other emissions agencies just because the transmission box is changed from one type to another.

    A manual should cost less, but often there is no discount on the sticker anymore.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    There hasn't been a US or CDN market MB diesel wagon in over a quarter of a century. I am not holding my breath.

    They'd probably sell at least a few (for some time the E wagon has attracted MB buyers with higher incomes than any other model, IIRC), but margins are much higher on tall wagons/SUVs.

    Life might be too short to drive what Mike & Lauren would prefer.

    Subprime car loans will not undermine the economy like the real estate sector did ~10 years ago.
    ruking1 said:


    Wonder if this will have a (US market) diesel option?
    https://youtu.be/NsmWGv5yE8s

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    edited May 2018
    Starbucks? Is this a joke? Even more of a tangent than goofy and 100% irrelevant Seattle rental regulations. If you can't add a piece of real data, just move on.

    VW got caught. That was their big mistake, and they paid for it. The FIRE industries have committed much worse and paid much less of a price.

    Most "buying" people will buy what marketers tell them. Wagons had high margins and practicality back in your day. Now CUVs/SUVs have taken over. That doesn't mean it is good, but it is what it is. Markets are fickle things.

    What "link" do you want? Maybe something else about rental housing in Seattle? LOL

    "Knaive" indeed.
    ruking1 said:

    Zzzzzzzzz. Wrong & on all counts again. Starbucks has the new policies for one in the entitled clueless self absorbed class. One doesn’t have to buy anything.

    VW wussies out? They poisoned the environment for the diesel segment, then leave? If one thinks it was a case of just embarrassment, that off base attitude might be a case of extreme knaive. But of course, I’d like to have gotten fired for $60 M USD + lifetime benefits. If anyone could have made a ton of $$ money with @ least day old information, on this (non related) blog no less, imagine what insiders or traders could & have make? Indeed, diesel cheating rumors circulated LONG before, in “more enthusiast” communities. How long ago could VW TDI’s be adjusted by computers? Let’s put it this way, the 2003 VW Jetta TDI (MK IV version) could be adjusted before 2003. Did it really matter then? NO! Does it really matter now? NO! Indeed, the N0X diesel/gasoline different level in the real world cannot be measured. Indeed, I would love to be a diesel buyer in Germany or other European markets: a 2019 VW Touareg TDI, CUV, would be the ticket. VW has committed to more than $25 B to EV drive technologies. This is more than what VW lost in US “diesel-gate”.

    Again, the entitled one posts no links to back up opinion. Again, woke up very late & clueless to sedan & station wagon sales slide? Evidently a whole lot more (buying) people don’t have the disdain for CUV’s, which fit their lifestyles better than one entitled. It seems like the entitled class/es do NOT buy (car) station wagons, nor many small to mid sized cars for that matter. Indeed CUV’s can be crudely viewd as “just jacked up” station wagons!? The auto markets are not dumb down as one has posited with no links. Indeed Ive linked more than a few articles indicating the American markets are terrified!

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    ...”Wagons had high margins and practicality back in your day.”...

    Absolutely not, unless you’ve got links & too many disadvantages, except maybe for a family of 8/9 kids, 2 adults. A normal car in those days was a land yacht by today’s comparison/s. If 8 mpg to 12 mpg was an advantage, then I’m sure one can believe pigs fly. Or as I’ve heard tell, those buyers did what marketeers tell them. Back in my day? No only no, but it was your fathers fathers heyday. My early days were stuff like 32/34 mpg 70 VW Beetles. It shaved off a lot of cruising speed for mpg. The real wants were BMW 2002ti, Porsche 356. Jaguar XKE.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    Maybe by the time of the gas crunch and high inflation, sure, but before that gas was cheap, wages were livable, and the cost of living wasn't insane. They sold every Country Squire and Kingswood they could build. Today they lift 'em and apply a thick pretense of sport and utility, but it might not be too important as there was a dearth of powerful diesel engines for passenger car applications 50 years ago.

    Even so, those days are what got the enthusiasts and cheapskates to embrace diesel - an old MB that can get 25-30 mpg is like my Bluetec today, mileage that astonishes people. I love old cars, but for everyday use, I'll take a modern one. You only live once, you know - treat yourself to that 356 today, at this rate, we might want to say "these are the good old days" ;)

    ruking1 said:

    ...”Wagons had high margins and practicality back in your day.”...

    Absolutely not, unless you’ve got links & too many disadvantages, except maybe for a family of 8/9 kids, 2 adults. A normal car in those days was a land yacht by today’s comparison/s. If 8 mpg to 12 mpg was an advantage, then I’m sure one can believe pigs fly. Or as I’ve heard tell, those buyers did what marketeers tell them. Back in my day? No only no, but it was your fathers fathers heyday. My early days were stuff like 32/34 mpg 70 VW Beetles. It shaved off a lot of cruising speed for mpg. The real wants were BMW 2002ti, Porsche 356. Jaguar XKE.

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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Still no. That may have been true in your neck of the woods, but certainly not in mine nor time frame. I don’t even know/remember what a Country Squire or Kingswood are. I could of course google it. The only one that really stood out was the (1955) Chevrolet Nomad- a 2 door model.. Most got dangerous ‘ Frankenstein” make overs. Those were also the “good old days” of LEADED gasoline & high sulfur diesel. A majority of people smoked & it truly suxed, especially with one or more smoking in cars. So no, again.

    Indeed THESE are the good old days! The line of Corvettes seems eye catching, especially the 755 hp/715 # ft. But it makes no sense heading up to the mountains in it. I’m not wanting to test whether it’s a cop magnet or not. I’ve already done the Route 66 areas I’ve wanted to do. The last time I did a Xcountry I opted for diesel over the Corvette Z06.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,306
    Yes, please google production numbers of big 3 wagons in the 1960-70 timeframe, or I can get them out of my reference books later. Hundreds of thousands of the things were made and sold every year. They moved from an upscale to dowdy image, and were replaced by tall wagons. Image is everything.

    A cross country trip with any luggage could be irritating in any roadster - you'd need to pack light and use a soft bag. I'd rather do 66 in a vintage wagon than a modern car, even a diesel - that sounds like one where the journey is the experience, not the destination.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    I confess to other interests than YUGE “land yacht-like” 60’s-70’s station wagons. So I’m fine when others are! As I’ve said more than once, I’m not the (classic) Corvette driver going 65 mph (in any lane) trying to get better (than average) mpg. B) I’m more like going/cruising XX mph to XXX mph, oh by the way getting 25 mpg. This is more true with diesels! Like model (gasoline) CUV’s have to fuel two times more.

    It’s normally true, packing light is de rigueur in most roadsters. We laughed after being able to routinely load a loaded igloo cooler into the “boot” with gobs of room for luggage & other stuff! Route 66 “like” journey’s transport most (me) to another space & time.

    The EV Hollywood connection? Was the EV “Harveyed? “
    https://youtu.be/l3OnYjP4FTk

    It would seem the environmentalists are locked into the asinine, destructive, ALL EV’s & vanquish the so called unbelievers/infidels, alley hack @ the bars. :D

    As it has been demonstrated time and time again, all that needs to be done to move the prices of oil/refined products is plus or -1% over and under the flow/supply. It’s almost talked about like the weather.

    10% ethanol greatly has moved the needle already. I’d say add that to gasoline only. So if people are willing to buy EV’s I’m good with that. So that’s 6. fuels: 1. Unleaded gasoline 2. Diesel 3. 10% ethanol 4. Natural gas 5. Biodiesel 6. electrical. Market forces wi/should make new fuels come and go.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In the 1950s and 60s Station wagons were very popular in So California. My uncle always bought them to run his contracting business. They were the ideal family vehicle for vacations family outings. Not really sure what replaced them unless it was the big SUVs like Suburbans. Now you have dozens of options from very tiny to HUUUGE. Just not enough with diesel. Hoping GM breaks the diesel stigma that were partially the cause of.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Yes, I grew up with 50’s 60’s cars. (OMG shades of Cuban transportation)

    If the new go to vehicles are light trucks, then the diesel options are no-brainers. They can post 25 to 30 mpg.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    Yes, I grew up with 50’s 60’s cars. (OMG shades of Cuban transportation)

    If the new go to vehicles are light trucks, then the diesel options are no-brainers. They can post 25 to 30 mpg.

    I prefer the higher seating in both my SUV and PU truck. Young kids have no problem with low center of gravity vehicles. I would not look twice at any sedan or station wagon today. Once you get used to easy in and out, getting out of a sedan is a real pain. Give me more diesel options and I am a happy camper.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    I can fully understand the ingress/egress issues. In addition, driving a (lower) Corvette Z06 requires one to subliminally understand the much lower to lowered perspective, which hopefully triggers subtle sight clues to avoid undercarriage damage.
    TMI
    The Corvette Z06 requires a (diy garage) special lower & longer armed jack, special lifting pucks, wooden dunnage to safely & correctly lift.

    I also like the long suspension travel on CUV’s & PU trucks.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would love to own a Porsche Carrera. I know I would get in trouble with it. No interest in going around and around on our local road racing track. Two vehicles in my 4 car garage is enough. Now maybe a Porsche diesel sports car. Right I have one sort of. The Touareg TDI is the next best thing to a Porsche Cayenne which is as much of a road racer as I would ever need. I'm a happy camper with what I have.
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Indeed!

    I do miss the 2012 VW Touareg TDI & secondarily, the 2009 Jetta TDI due to buybacks.

    The monies received have been VERY gainfully redeployed, even as I miss the ZERO% loans. Interestingly, ( my 2014 ) the MB loan ended, resulting in a pink slip in the mail.

    We are blessed with proximity to MANY secondary (highways also) roads, & magnificent (not so magnificent if so inclined) destinations; the “stuff journalistic car fantasies are make”. To boot, there are any number of car clubs. Diesels have almost always been (my) go to.

    Help navigating? Geez turn on the smart phone ! Strap one to the roof rack for the air & view? ?

    https://youtu.be/JbGL1jQa2j8

    Shock absorber? Now this (Fox Racing 2 tube interna bypassl racing) is a shock absorber ! http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/05/24/2019-ford-f-150-raptor-getting-new-high-tech-tricks.html

    It’s been apparent for decades that the people that control the (CA, anyway) moneies for road repairs, do not send the real monies needed to really fix/repair the roads.

    Is this what is happening to small cars & sedans?

    https://youtu.be/J-QE80Sn9AE
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    The pear fect C02 manufacturer?
    https://youtu.be/TUnc-37e4vg

    50 mph winds, alright haters where are the GE wind generated electrical propellers?
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2018
    Wow. Unbelievable brilliance went into that work of art! Too bad all they're doing is making alcohol, but, hey, if there's a demand then they may as well make it in style!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    Indeed that IS what CA did for their front & center & background wines production, over 50+ years that I’ve known of. Alcohol tax is easily 73%, so ignoring C0 2 production (the environmental ENEMY GAS, released not captured) is simple to understand & on many levels. This way it’s easy to demonize agriculture that does not yield that all important Ethanol (alcohol) tax %. ($$’s B’s in pocket change for politicians? )

    The Pacific Northwest for a whole group of reasons, mimics (Scotch, only much faster) “Scotland like” whiskey growing factors. CO, in addition to mj distills some gold metal whiskeys.

    American https://www.maxim.com/entertainment/buying-jack-daniels-barrel. oak it has always been the gold standard for charred barrels. (53 gal barrel)
    http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.com/Wood-Barrels.html
    The good news is that may create a renaissance in American whiskey’s just like it has for CA wines, TN, KY bourbons. I just hope it doesn’t take 50 + years. Salute! :DB)
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    ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2018
    All of a sudden a TDI MB Sprinter camper looks cheap!?

    https://youtu.be/SBjXUBMkkE8
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It does boggle the mind for sure. If the Dems dump Prop 13 as promised, you will see a flood of retirees headed out.
This discussion has been closed.