Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
This discussion has been closed.
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
But there in lies the conundrum within a riddle within a puzzle. (another EPA/CARB Russian style shell withih shell, etc. COLLUSION=anti diesel ? )
Biodiesel can be “gotten/harvested “ grown & manufactured etc. etc., without gasoline as a product! Of course gasoline CAN be a product. Biodiesel has ZERO ppm sulfur! Gasoline can legally be sold with 30 ppm to (with off line fee/penalty) 90 ppm.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that diesel & biodiesel has far less pollutive potential than gasoline. Does that mean I’m an advocate of getting rid of gasoline ? NO!
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/energy/2018/05/17/fuel-price-jump-offset-tax-cuts-fuel-economy-review-questioned/618399002/
A long USA Today article ?
EIA.gov https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=327&t=9
As of 05/10/2017, a barrel of oil (42 gals crude) yields 20 gal gasoline 11 gals ULSD. (from 19gal 12/13 gal: so in fact to get one more gallon of gas, approximately 1 gallon of diesel is lost) ULSD is fully 35.5% of the yield (gasoline @65.5%) There is of course some wiggle room to get either more or less gasoline/diesel.
There are of course many takeaways. Here’s one takeaway.
If one does the math, it is absolutely clear and factual “getting rid of diesel” is a unheard SIREN call for higher GASOLINE use & probably more germane: higher prices. I’ve used the 15,000 miles per year GLK’S 350=23 MPG, 250 BT=36 MPG. The germane question (PUG vs ULSD) which uses more barrels of oil 2 PUG’s or1 PUG & 1 diesel?
So getting rid of 50 % + Euro diesels MASSIVELY tips the scales toward massive increases in gasoline use. What is overwhelmingly clear is that the EURO 50% plus diesel PVF uses way less barrels of oil than the USA PVF @ 5% diesels.
The 2009 VW Jetta TDI had a sunroof. It added ZERO $’s in resale/buy back value. Three others (my diesels) had/have no sunroofs.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/62a41f4a-afa9-3091-b706-1e44875cc9af/ss_trump-administration-plans.html
Of course, it’s TRUMPS fault.
So if it’s difficult @ best to put a proposed 4,100 acre SOLAR projects in the desert, where sun shining is as close to 365 days a year than most places, but shaved (24.4%) to 3,100 acres: where should it be? By the time this project builts out, the design will probably be obsolete ?
Keeping California 50th out of 50?
Locals are not happy. The electricity would be exported out of the area, which has been hit by Category 3 and 4 hurricanes and multiple tropical storms over the years. Another big one would likely send glass shards flying all over. Meanwhile, the Tar Heel state averages just 213 sunny days per year and 9 hours of bright sun per day; that translates into electricity just 20% of the year – unpredictably, unreliably, less affordably. Carbon dioxide reduction benefits? None. These and other issues must get a full hearing, before regulators issue any approvals.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/09/01/yet-another-renewable-energy-boondoggle/
But I would say, read the TMI, form ones own conclusions. Coal has been, is, will remain highly efficient! Despite HOWLINGs to the contrary, it’s becoming more & more clean.
In the meantime, go diesel! It also has the refinery capability yielding roughly 13 gal to 11 gal per barrel. Gasoline yield flexibility seems to be 19 to 20 gals. Biodiesel can be chemical refined with access to natural gas @ the customer/s site. It can be grown from LG. It can be harvested from rich to marginal lands to oceans. It can be taken from sewer processing plants, recycling & garbage sites. It can be gathered from the waste byproduct of ongoing manufacturing sites.
I’m surprised that nobody in the green movement says a word about the cost per acre of land! Not surprisingly what are the SOLAR panel grid losses due to grid distribution.
The 2014 MB GLK 250 BT has a 17.4 gal tank, whose low fuel indicators go off @ app 15 gal ( 2.4 gal left) so @ 36-38 mpg the range are 540 miles to 570 miles. It’s easy to see a full tank’s (17 gal) range can be more like 612 miles to 646 miles
I talked to a MB tech yesterday, who thinks the engine in these cars is the best MB you can buy - he's thinking of buying a GLK 250.
So while one can say it consumed 5 gal of DEF in 30,000 miles, I don’t have a second/third left over container to give an approximation, or reliable fiqures.
My MPG sure suffers with mostly 3 mile trips around town. The 4 cylinder GMC seems to use less diesel with short trips. We take the Touareg on our trips to Las Vegas. Average about 3 trips a month to See's, bank and Costco. Beautiful drive through Red Rock Canyon.
Is Seattles’s landscape being decimated one landlord @ a time?
https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/business/T057-S001-7-things-that-will-soon-disappear/index.html?cid=56&kwp_0=693082&kwp_4=2533981&kwp_1=1073875
Seattle's real issues in that realm are dopey zoning and offshore buyers. The cool thing about it is if people don't like it, they are free to move - roads go both ways, and most suburbs are better managed than the city itself. The lucky generation who bought housing when normal working people could do so are also free to sell - I would.
Yes, dopey (dems) zoning laws/ordinances are what the author is saying that are operating.
So I’ve been following the 7sp M/T (Tremec ) product in Corvettes. A 7 sp M/T would probably be an ideal combination in a 3.0 L T TDI, on up. So I think it’s fair to say that getting a 7 speed MT on the market has been dialed out.
I find it funny that the author doesn't even live there, and in fact earns a meal ticket in part due to goofy policies. I don't live there either, it's not my mess.
The subject of this (CNN) article MIGHT be the real reason why diesel fuel is becoming /has become a very hot fuel commodity. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/m/22435c57-5639-3f26-a3a1-d878879c339c/ss_the-gigantic-cruise-ships.html
Linking to an irrelevant Yahoo "article" (Yahoo is an aggregator) that links directly to Faux is effectively linking to Faux. Yahoo doesn't have a political lean, it posts clickbait from all sides in order to generate revenue.
Diesel isn't becoming hot simply because of demand - either people have mostly inaccurate bias against it, or because most people don't care, via this, automaker profit margins don't support it. It sells to enthusiasts and cheapskates.
Wrong on all counts,...again. But yeah, some folks truly don’t get it.
Automaker profit margins don’t support a host of products, most of them non-diesel. “Small cars, sedans, station wagons, certain gasoline engines (2 categories are some folks favorites) are just 4 categories.
There are a host of articles indicating ALL automakers have to adjust to new going forward realities. Indeed, VW has been one of them. VW threw American diesels under the bus. (So-called diesel- gate) Curiously, they want to start a separate diesel bus company.
Sedans and small cars are viable via oldsters and/or fleet sales. Small profit, higher volume - far higher than any diesel or wagon in this bland market. Wagons are a niche product just a step above diesels. Go talk to a non-car person about wagons or diesels - their eyes glaze over and they start drooling.
IMO the worst thing VW did was get caught. I have no doubts others have played the same game.
The segments have been shrinking for years. Are they (the volumes) higher than diesels or wagons? Of course they are!? Station wagons Ye Ha! They will fit horse saddles! All I need are horses & saddles.
If that is the worst thing VW ever did, why do you think they overpaid? ($21
Else we will shut 'er down to allow everyone to cool off.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
(DEF is optional if you are OK with driving at a maximum electronically-limited speed of 4 mph.)
for the 2017s, dealer provides DEF as well as oil during the 2 free oil changes...
52 mpg on recent roadtrip to Arlington National Cemetery and the National Cryptologic Museum.
VW wanted it over with, caught red-handed and embarrassed. They were afraid of further political-based punishment, and got out while they could. They can afford it.
In terms of passenger cars, diesels or wagons - probably a toss up. Carmakers are in the business of maximizing profits, and we'd have more choices for both in this dumbed down market, if more people cared. But in the land of the lowest common denominator, a bloatling CUV simply has more appeal.
Speaking of DEF, I don't think the Bluetec guzzles it - I go under 10K miles between services, but have never seen a low fluid alert. The car goes in for its annual service in a few weeks, I will try to remember to ask how much it needed. It is included with the standard prepaid maintenance.
VW wussies out? They poisoned the environment for the diesel segment, then leave? If one thinks it was a case of just embarrassment, that off base attitude might be a case of extreme knaive. But of course, I’d like to have gotten fired for $60 M USD + lifetime benefits. If anyone could have made a ton of $$ money with @ least day old information, on this (non related) blog no less, imagine what insiders or traders could & have make? Indeed, diesel cheating rumors circulated LONG before, in “more enthusiast” communities. How long ago could VW TDI’s be adjusted by computers? Let’s put it this way, the 2003 VW Jetta TDI (MK IV version) could be adjusted before 2003. Did it really matter then? NO! Does it really matter now? NO! Indeed, the N0X diesel/gasoline different level in the real world cannot be measured. Indeed, I would love to be a diesel buyer in Germany or other European markets: a 2019 VW Touareg TDI, CUV, would be the ticket. VW has committed to more than $25 B to EV drive technologies. This is more than what VW lost in US “diesel-gate”.
Yes, bloated station wagons ?
Again, the entitled one posts no links to back up opinion. Again, woke up very late & clueless to sedan & station wagon sales slide? Evidently a whole lot more (buying) people don’t have the disdain for CUV’s, which fit their lifestyles better than one entitled. It seems like the entitled class/es do NOT buy (car) station wagons, nor many small to mid sized cars for that matter. Indeed CUV’s can be crudely viewd as “just jacked up” station wagons!? The auto markets are not dumb down as one has posited with no links. Indeed Ive linked more than a few articles indicating the American markets are terrified!
All it needs is a diesel option & it’s a great traveling “homeless“ vehicle!? Great for a seasonal job @ Amazon?
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/m/117de462-12c7-38d4-818f-c505bc394b0d/ss_california-dreamin’%3A-coastal.html
Guess it will need a solar array for a microwave option ?
Wonder if this will have a (US market) diesel option?
An interesting explanation?
Giving the secrets away?
http://pleasureway.com/pleasure-way-ascent/
The problem is regulation. From what I understand, even the exact same car with the exact same engine has to undergo expensive retesting and certification (i.e. Costs $$$$) to satisfy the EPA and other emissions agencies just because the transmission box is changed from one type to another.
A manual should cost less, but often there is no discount on the sticker anymore.
They'd probably sell at least a few (for some time the E wagon has attracted MB buyers with higher incomes than any other model, IIRC), but margins are much higher on tall wagons/SUVs.
Life might be too short to drive what Mike & Lauren would prefer.
Subprime car loans will not undermine the economy like the real estate sector did ~10 years ago.
VW got caught. That was their big mistake, and they paid for it. The FIRE industries have committed much worse and paid much less of a price.
Most "buying" people will buy what marketers tell them. Wagons had high margins and practicality back in your day. Now CUVs/SUVs have taken over. That doesn't mean it is good, but it is what it is. Markets are fickle things.
What "link" do you want? Maybe something else about rental housing in Seattle? LOL
"Knaive" indeed.
Absolutely not, unless you’ve got links & too many disadvantages, except maybe for a family of 8/9 kids, 2 adults. A normal car in those days was a land yacht by today’s comparison/s. If 8 mpg to 12 mpg was an advantage, then I’m sure one can believe pigs fly. Or as I’ve heard tell, those buyers did what marketeers tell them. Back in my day? No only no, but it was your fathers fathers heyday. My early days were stuff like 32/34 mpg 70 VW Beetles. It shaved off a lot of cruising speed for mpg. The real wants were BMW 2002ti, Porsche 356. Jaguar XKE.
Even so, those days are what got the enthusiasts and cheapskates to embrace diesel - an old MB that can get 25-30 mpg is like my Bluetec today, mileage that astonishes people. I love old cars, but for everyday use, I'll take a modern one. You only live once, you know - treat yourself to that 356 today, at this rate, we might want to say "these are the good old days"
Indeed THESE are the good old days! The line of Corvettes seems eye catching, especially the 755 hp/715 # ft. But it makes no sense heading up to the mountains in it. I’m not wanting to test whether it’s a cop magnet or not. I’ve already done the Route 66 areas I’ve wanted to do. The last time I did a Xcountry I opted for diesel over the Corvette Z06.
A cross country trip with any luggage could be irritating in any roadster - you'd need to pack light and use a soft bag. I'd rather do 66 in a vintage wagon than a modern car, even a diesel - that sounds like one where the journey is the experience, not the destination.
It’s normally true, packing light is de rigueur in most roadsters. We laughed after being able to routinely load a loaded igloo cooler into the “boot” with gobs of room for luggage & other stuff! Route 66 “like” journey’s transport most (me) to another space & time.
The EV Hollywood connection? Was the EV “Harveyed? “
It would seem the environmentalists are locked into the asinine, destructive, ALL EV’s & vanquish the so called unbelievers/infidels, alley hack @ the bars.
As it has been demonstrated time and time again, all that needs to be done to move the prices of oil/refined products is plus or -1% over and under the flow/supply. It’s almost talked about like the weather.
10% ethanol greatly has moved the needle already. I’d say add that to gasoline only. So if people are willing to buy EV’s I’m good with that. So that’s 6. fuels: 1. Unleaded gasoline 2. Diesel 3. 10% ethanol 4. Natural gas 5. Biodiesel 6. electrical. Market forces wi/should make new fuels come and go.
If the new go to vehicles are light trucks, then the diesel options are no-brainers. They can post 25 to 30 mpg.
TMI
The Corvette Z06 requires a (diy garage) special lower & longer armed jack, special lifting pucks, wooden dunnage to safely & correctly lift.
I also like the long suspension travel on CUV’s & PU trucks.
I do miss the 2012 VW Touareg TDI & secondarily, the 2009 Jetta TDI due to buybacks.
The monies received have been VERY gainfully redeployed, even as I miss the ZERO% loans. Interestingly, ( my 2014 ) the MB loan ended, resulting in a pink slip in the mail.
We are blessed with proximity to MANY secondary (highways also) roads, & magnificent (not so magnificent if so inclined) destinations; the “stuff journalistic car fantasies are make”. To boot, there are any number of car clubs. Diesels have almost always been (my) go to.
Help navigating? Geez turn on the smart phone ! Strap one to the roof rack for the air & view? ?
Shock absorber? Now this (Fox Racing 2 tube interna bypassl racing) is a shock absorber ! http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/05/24/2019-ford-f-150-raptor-getting-new-high-tech-tricks.html
It’s been apparent for decades that the people that control the (CA, anyway) moneies for road repairs, do not send the real monies needed to really fix/repair the roads.
Is this what is happening to small cars & sedans?
50 mph winds, alright haters where are the GE wind generated electrical propellers?
The Pacific Northwest for a whole group of reasons, mimics (Scotch, only much faster) “Scotland like” whiskey growing factors. CO, in addition to mj distills some gold metal whiskeys.
American https://www.maxim.com/entertainment/buying-jack-daniels-barrel. oak it has always been the gold standard for charred barrels. (53 gal barrel)
http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.com/Wood-Barrels.html
The good news is that may create a renaissance in American whiskey’s just like it has for CA wines, TN, KY bourbons. I just hope it doesn’t take 50 + years. Salute!