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Statistical driving of diesels probably makes a lot of folks eyes glaze over. I do like the 03 TDI however. the range of 44 mpg (low) to 62 mpg is way cool. It is probably not even close to the REAL range one can actually achieve. Yet 48-52 mpg is another range that takes absolutely not too many brain cells to post.
Perhaps true, but do the math at 12,000 miles a year.
To put it in perspective, to show 1/2 mil on your current speedometer, you'd be driving a 1970 car you bought new.
Me too. My Sequoia is still under 24,000 miles and I am ready to sell it. Our 21 year old Lexus just turned over 104K miles. I am tired of it as well. It is just not worth anything, so I keep it. I don't think I will put 100k miles on any new vehicle I get. Though at 39+ MPG on the highway when I get my new ML 250 Bluetec, I will probably do more driving and less flying.
Dealer says they have not gotten any info yet for ordering.
It would seem that the powers that be would have us run into a brick wall so to speak, when they run the price of fuel up,.... to $$$ 4,5,6,7,8,9,10, per gal, and not offer many over 35 mpg options, the upcoming 2012 standard
That's pretty ironic in that I just heard a PO sound bite that bemoaned $4.00 per gal gas as a HUGE drain/enemy on the economy, the American consumer family, etc.
On the other hand, HIS energy secretary (PO's) does not hide the opinion that the price of US gasoline really needs to hit European levels , of which "we"(his WE, not mine!) need to creatively fiqure out HOW to get it THERE & ASAP !! ?? (which are @ 8,9,10 per gal already). Now that might be their good news!?? The bad news? Well, WE will be paying much more per mile driven than even Europe does !!!!! ???? Wow and many EU countries have been bailed out: Ireland, Portugal, etc. Oh and did we know Greece that socialist government is hinting DEFAULT? :surprise:
I think Norway is doing quite well and you can't get more socialist than that. THey get most of their revenue from value-added taxes.
They stayed out of OPEC and I believe they have a pretty shrewd energy policy.
However, they are past their peak oil production at present.
http://sarojspanorama.blogspot.com/2009/09/poverty-in-norway.html
Sounds like it helps a bit if your economy includes the capacity to mine diesel fuel.
Gas is down about 31 cents the last six weeks while diesel has fallen 17 cents. National average for gas is $3.65; average for diesel is $3.95. (Transport Topics)
Speaking of gas prices, no recent local declines that I have noticed...paid $4.14 or something for Chevron premium yesterday, the same I think as 2 weeks ago.
This is the diesel thread man. :shades: When you were last in Germany did you drive any of the S class with the 250 Bluetec. I think they are also used in the E class. I am jazzed about that vehicle. I don't need a rocket. I just want a quiet comfortable safe cruiser getting great mileage and range.
How might diesels be marketing other than from the "fuel-stingy" point of view?
What is very to CHRYSTAL clear is there are literally gravity and freight train movements toward higher prices (diesel and rug to pug in this context) which will do absolutely nothing about the REASONS given for the BLATHER: global warming, import oil and finite resources.
What is all the more galling and disengenuous,DIESEL is an easy portal to self sufficiency: bio diesel is being almost totally ignored and conversationally and policy wise is being relegated to the so called "lunatic FRINGE" categories, once the categories assigned for "flaming liberals"
That being said, diesels are infinitely more adapted to our roads than they are for European markets. We normally have to bridge a scale that Europeans do not have to. Indeed according to a post the host Steve linked some posts back, Europeans do an average of 8,700 miles yearly to our 12,000 to 15,000 miles. Even poor economic conditions with 12.5 to 15% unemployment has neither changed this statistic and only cut back growth of oil USE 1%. So in effect growth, albeit 1% slower: continues ever UPWARD. Car and driver populations are app the same. Euro being 270.4 M cars and US being 258.4 M cars. So perhaps "GUTTING" of cities like Detroit is part of the LONGER term plans !? Take away literally the economic engines and don't replace it with anything else and....VIOLA !? :sick: :lemon: 40-44 square miles of a one teaming and unlimited potential 140 sq mile city is non performing!!!!
While it is true that people of all political and ideological stripes talk a far better game than they practice (if this were not so, we would not need things like laws, satire, and the concept of Hell), the fact of escalating fuel prices is a kind of wake-up call.
Humans generally start to act when things start to get *really bad*---and by that time, it's often too late to do anything about it.
The smart ones, however (the ones who will survive and thrive) to tend to anticipate the bad news. Given that, the future of the USA doesn't look too promising in terms of "clean energy" research. We have the brains, but not the will to do it. When I hear cries for "more drilling" and squeezing oil out of rocks, I regard it as not much more than mass denial of reality.
It's not all grim, however. Since this is an automotive site, we could mention the sales curve for smaller, fuel efficient cars over the last 5 years in the USA, and, at least the FRAMING of the energy question in public debate.
Perhaps people using used peanut oil from Chinese restaurants and reprocessing it in their garages are part of the so-called "lunatic fringe" but I think commercial biodiesel products are taken quite seriously by people, and respected.
The problem is that so much of what we do is economically-driven. Biodiesel is still too expensive vis a vis gasoline or even regular diesel.
Am I so pure, so ideologically driven, that I will spend MORE for fuel so that I can feel smug and "clean"?
Good question. I really don't know if I'm ready to walk my talk.
The mpg appeals to the frugal types, but diesel has a reputation as a dirty fuel to the green crowd.
To the frugal crowd, diesel has a reputation as a finicky engine that is expensive to work on. Plus the perception is that it's hard to find mechanics who can fix them.
Maybe diesel pushers should focus on torque, handling and towing and just toss in mpg as a nice little bonus.
The goverment should encourage the former, yet it should be blantantly apparent they even discourage buying diesel.
But then again a good (REAL) reason why we fight in Afghanistan.? (besides the drug (opiate and derivatives) flow) Somebody ought to tell the powers that be that CHINA is already locking up the rare earth mineral rights !!! We (USA) as a people should shudder to think that we are China's defacto "MAFIA" force.
I suppose if you are retired and on a tidy fixed income, you have the time to home-brew your fuel...but most people don't have this time or income.
In other words, I can either spend an hour making biodiesel in my back yard, or I can work for X minutes and buy a gallon of it.
The greens will pay extra for the solar/wind generated flavor. They already are.
Let's look into a crystal ball for fun and see what the world is using for power and transportation in 500 years:
- Fusion power - military use or large scale power only.
- Fission power - largely not used - too dirty and inefficient.
- Oil - gone.
- Coal - too dirty and mostly gone by then.
- Hydro-Electric power. Mostly for power generation.
- Solar - large scale farms.
- Wind - also, large scale use. (I'm voting on thermal towers myself as they offer very good efficiency and low impact)
For vehicle use:
- Biodiesel made from waste wood/plant materials and trash, mostly.
- CNG and other similar fuels. This will be in use as well since we can artificially create some of these in a factory instead of having to drill of them. Limited use, though.
- Electric, mostly based upon fuel cells.
- Hydrogen. With enough electricity, it's possible to make an infinite supply with no waste products.
- Compressed air - this will be used as well on a limited basis. They even have such a car now in France.
- Steam. Large scale power will be high tech. Everything else will be as basic as possible to save resources. Mostly used for large-scale transportation like trains and so on.
Of this list, though, CNG and bio-Diesel are currently in use/developed and offer a workable solution as a bridge to fuel cells and other alternative technologies. Gasoline, Diesel, and most batteries simply have no viable future and their time is almost done.
For me anyway, in the cars I like, I consider 2 versions - the tuned sport model, or a diesel. The "normals" don't interest me.
Indeed growth has been pretty electric, if going from one half of 1 percent diesel cars (1.272 M)and 2% diesel (5.168 M) with 75+% being light trucks: to 5% diesel (12.92 M) and 50% being light trucks (6.46 M cars and trucks). Growth in cars is app 508%. Light (but really HEAVY) trucks have grown 166%.
Interestingly enough there were actually a lot of cheer leading (legislative, regulatory, market etc) for SUV growth.
On the other hand, probably not so much for the diesels, which can have 20-40%+ mpg advantages.
So for example, while I am still a tad skeptical at JD Powers prediction of 12% diesel (by 2018?, if I remember correctly) that would be a min of 31 M diesels. So if the American oems were to jump in, my swag are the engines used would be from the European to WW subsidiaries
12% seems optimistic to me. That's way bigger than the hybrid market is right now.
I would hope the old American diesel experience would be a warning/reminder to NOT repeat that experience again, should American oems decide to put American diesels on the American market.
This is almost totally opaque to the American market of American car buyers but in American oems in European and other world wide markets, market and I would assume are semi to sucessful with those products.
Americans have a lot of bad diesel car memories--not just the GM diesels in the Cadillac, but even the Mercedes diesels (formidable, but slow and noisy), and the rather pathetic early VW diesel pickup trucks, and the ill-conceived diesel Volvos and Isuzu Pups.
I know some tiny slice of enthusiasts still restore and drive these early diesels with a degree of success, but as brand new merchandise in a competitive world, they didn't have the right stuff to succeed here in the USA.
An example would be late model Corvette engines, Tremec 6066 6 speed manual transmission, Corvette suspensions, etc. As far as the "good ole days"; THESE ARE the good old days !!!
Given the V-8's small 327 CI/ large block 427 CI "success stories", I wonder how a turbo to twin turbo diesel offering would do in those sizes.
Dear Mr. Grice.
The ML350 BlueTEC will be available in September 2011.
Currently there are no plans to import the ML250 BlueTEC into the U.S.
market.
Sincerely,
Chris M.
Mercedes-Benz USA LLC
We are again relegated to the 3rd World status. Our cheap fuel may be the reason companies like Mercedes think we all want fire breathing gas guzzlers. Even VW has now extended their offering the Tiguan TDI until 2015. :sick:
The only positive is I can buy a heck of a lot of gas for $50k I would have spent on a new vehicle. Even at $5 per gallon I can travel 170,000 miles in my Sequoia.
More good news on the diesel front: Mercedes-Benz says it will launch a new generation of super-efficient diesel engines later this year, starting with a 2.2-liter four-cylinder "BlueEfficiency" powerplant.
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/09/mercedes-to-launch-new-blueefficiency-diesel- .html
Maybe they cannot keep up with production for the EU market. We get left in the dust as usual.
This might be nit picking, but if MB can mate that to a sub 3,000# vehicle WOW !
Exxon Mobil actually does current advertisements on the TV SAT Cable stations.
Conservative estimates are 200 to 500 years supply. This is interesting in that energy was supposed to run out, ... 50-100 years ago.
When you intergrate the GTL technologies, a graphic is natural gas to ULSD, it truly dials out barrels of oil (aka gasoline) and in effect wind, solar, alternatives.
GTL ULSD is ULTRA clean and at all points in the logistic chain. Thisis unlike barrels of oil, where the sulfur content has to be removed. So for example, why the envirocons want or advocate $10 per gal gasoline are because those are the pricing points that make wind and solar etc. "alternatives" economical. 25-30 years from now all those solar projects will look like the "PET ROCK equivalent!! So look to natural gas being the new envircon PUBLIC enemy number ONE !!! Natural gas is EXTRAORDINARILY inexpensive !!!!!!!!!!!! Not a very convenient truth, when you are painting the shortage and armaggedon picture and more short term $10. per gal gasoline !! :lemon:
Chevron lists this as their current ratio :
..."We have partnered with the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation and Sasol to build a GTL plant expected to convert 325 million cubic feet of natural gas per day into 33,000 barrels of liquids—principally synthetic diesel. When completed, the plant is expected to supply diesel fuel for cars and trucks in Europe and elsewhere. The plant is expected to begin production in 2013."...
link title
33,000 barrels of ULSD is 1.386 M gals.
4WD, powered by an efficient 2.8 liter turbo-diesel engine, which generates high torque, Chevrolet Colorado Rally is perfect for the needs in the off road roads/tracks
As we quickly become just another country behind China and India, we will be left out more and more. The USA is an insignificant player in the Global marketplace.
PS
We bailed out those losers at GM and this is the thanks we get.
I believe last year (our worst US market auto sales of 10.5 M) China alone sold 14+ M passenger vehicles. !!!
So it's really not that viable in the immediate future. Biodiesel (B100) just requires some microbes and plant material. Well, we have huge amounts of that lying around and likely always will.
So for example, while solar and wind are/can be ONE viable alternative, it is along the lines (depending on their peak or shall I say lack of peak ness) of OFF peak most of the time (5 to max 10% efficient and I am an optimist!! ).
Another example is in CA envirocon nivana, the electric utility can BARELY keep up with demand !! What do you think will happen when they add a electrical charger unit for one let alone one electric car let alone a "fleet" of (say 6) electric cars?. Yet every other year we lose the contents of a normal sized refrigerator freezer, which the utility is liable for (normally app $500). YET it is impossible to put stuff like that on a solar panel back up circuit !?
Japan, at some point in the future has to replace the electrical production from the nuclear plant that has gone off line. I have heard liberal news media say the plant fulfills 10% of that nations demand. How many windmills and solar panels do you think it will now take to be at par let alone allow for growth? The problem is literally STAGGERING.
I really like the idea of using garbage for fuel---now that is creative thinking.
re: Renewable natural gas--- that's called "biogas"--it's not the stuff offshore.
and get those alternatives from multiple sources: GTL, conventional oil,
bio diesel, bio diesel blends from B5 to B100, BD from algae, process waste, recycled and sewer waste, etc, etc.
So what really everyone is implying is there is another 100% magic bullet that is not from,...barrels of oil, aka gasoline.
So for example, we have a solor panel manufacturing plant plant YOU all put here. (gov put $555 M to put the plant not far from here) Do you think it is a tad ironic that the solar panel manufacturing plant does not get or supply any appreciable % of energy for its own needs from...solar panels?????
lSolyndra
Yeah I do regard diesel as a transitional type of fuel/vehicle that might serve me until something even more efficient comes along.
Diesel cars strike me as both a "sideways" and an vertical move, but not a dramatic one.
It's possible for instance that diesel cars will suffer the same fate as seems to be befalling hybrids----the gas-only competition has just about caught up to them.
Every time someone counts out the gasoline powered piston engine, it comes to its knees, shakes itself off, and comes back punching.
So I dunno.....but for right now in 2011, a 50 mpg diesel sport wagon looks mighty attractive to me.
I do not and never have counted the gasoline engine out. It is the natural consequence of flawed (envirocon's) arguments.
But yes, a 50 mpg diesel works well in reality (relatively). That very same product in a gasser posts 27.5 mpg. That diesel posts a min of 69% better mpg. :shades: But then on the other hand, what do envircons really care? :sick: Overwhelmingly, WE have chosen gassers (over 95%) that burn much more (than diesel/biodiesel).
There ARE such people actually, especially farmers. Every farmer's market you see is a good example.
Environmentalism is going to be big business. You can already see the big boys jumping in, although often in the worst possible way (e.g. ethanol, which is worthless). And China is going into the green industry in a huge way--and I guess we could call the Chinese government "convservative" -- LOL!
But I think the current administration will eventually cut off ethanol subsidy, once they figure out how to do it gracefully (not easy).
so either the USA will have to jump start its research on green technology, or we'll be buying it at high retail from Asia in ten years.
We already are. Most solar, batteries, Wind generators, electric motors are being built in China. Much of the R&D paid by US the tax payers and the manufacturing sent to China.
I think of Envirocon as a person that uses the environment to cover a scam or Con. Think Al Gore.
Most of the time being conservative is best for the environment. Waste not, want not.
How was Al Gore a "scam", though? I mean, I KNOW he didn't practice what he was preaching (I am shocked....SHOCKED...that a politician would do this! :surprise: ) however, his science was essentially correct (minus the drama I mean, which is not scientific) . Carbon is being released in huge quantities into the atmosphere (fact) and we can measure that (fact) and we know that such a release increases temperature (fact) but we aren't sure if people caused this or merely contribute to a natural cause (all still in debate) . ....I guess what I mean is that science is right whether the person stating a fact is a hypocrite or a wife-beater or a bad teacher, or whatever, and it remains correct whether someone believes the science or not.
Even people who believe the earth is flat still go around the sun once a year. :P
Given the size of the dice being rolled, you'd wanna be on the safe side here.
My motivation for buying a "greener" car is not to keep the earth from warming up, however....I'm glad that's a by-product (maybe) but my motivation is to keep my resources from being bled dry by fuel prices.
When my some-what thrifty car blows up, I'll have to buy another car ANYWAY, so why not a green diesely one?---as long as its a) fun and b) affordable.
I don't like hybrids, I'm not going to drive a Toyota Echo or a Smart car, so a diesel makes more and more sense to me.