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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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After all, they have to design a vehicle with an artful combination of power AND reliability, and they have to pass emissions testing at the time of manufacture, etc.
I can get 40 ft lbs of extra torque on my gasser MINI for $600, purely electronically--that's not too bad, really. What that will do to longterm reliability, I have no idea.
that's a turbo characteristic, not diesel. So turbo gasser tuners are well aware of the fact.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Some are obviously easier and safter to upgrade than others, but that's true of diesels, too. There are many many reports of folks running obscene upgraded power levels on their turbo gassers for 100k miles and still going strong. I know this to be true of the VW 2.0T runing 100+ extra lb-ft, and it seems to be proving true of the bimmer N54, too. Same is true of the older Volvos.
I actually didn't know about the heat being less in a turbo diesel. Why is that?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
it may be so but aside from a faith-based approach, my motivation for having a diesel would be fuel economy--anything else I might get from it would be icing on the cake.
So, say in my MINI, a normally aspirated 1.6L diesel engine would make the car a dog, but that same engine heavily boosted would make it a little animal, at least an lower RPMs. Of course, the car would be heavier and may require a stronger transmission and clutch---all of which would make an already expensive little car more expensive.
So you know, no perfect world here.
First, you're comparing a forced induction diesel to naturally aspirated gas.
With DI even N/A gas engines are putting out 100hp/liter specific output, even in mainstream applications.
Add turbo and that jumps to 130/140 hp/liter, even in some cases with 87 octane (Hyundai, Ford).
And .... all for a lot lower cost vs. diesel.
I was hoping my question would cause the diesel fans to think it through and come to the same conclusion you did - "no perfect world."
I think the DI engines offered by Ford may be on the way out. They have a better idea. The Eco boost is a $1900 option on the F150. The test I read says yes you can get a lot of power from the engine. But not good mileage in the process. Sadly Ford is building some dandy 4 cylinder diesel engines for the Ranger. Sales only to 1st World countries. We get the trash in the USA.
Auto Industry About to Go Diesel Crazy
IMHO DI should become universal, but I'm sure it's not cheap...
Good news, but they're a supplier so I hope that's accurate and not just wishful thinking and a slanted survey.
The article seems very pro-diesel, though. The only really "new" diesel offerings in volume segments are from Mazda and Chevy.
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/prius-c/2012/2012-toyota-prius-c-pricing-announ- ced.html
Inside Line got an early drive in the Toyota Aqua last month (that's the Japanese version of the Prius C), and the editors were surprised to find it downright engaging and even fun to drive.
"Here's an eco champ that's unexpectedly taut, sporty and, yes, even fun."
I always said that diesels aren't going to compete with hybrids unless they can market them under $20K in the US.
DEFACTO, it was (from the cost point of view) ABSOLUTELY no help. But to be honest in 20/20 hindsight, I think that EVEN IF Prius'es were the same prices, I would have STILL gotten both diesels and the Civic (non hybrid gasser). Resale values for all three are FAR better than I ever hope they could have been. There are of course new competitive models that probably blow the doors (gassers and diesels) so things get a little murkier.
IMHO, the Prius C makes the most sense of any Prius in the lineup. It's the most affordable and the most fuel efficient, i.e. win-win.
Should be light enough to zip around town. I bet it will be a penalty box on the highway but that won't matter, since it targets urban consumers.
Edit: Impeccable timing, posted 4 minutes ago:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/10/2012-toyota-prius-c-first-drive-review/
Makes a lot of sense to get the fleet mpg numbers down.
Wonder what the (relative) price of them is in Japan?
Priuses are marketed brilliantly in the same way old Volvos were--they are for people who hate cars. :P
However, there's a whole new generation of DI petrol turbo engines coming online and they will pose serious competition to the diesel.
Technology never stops.
Yeah, it's not a road trip car, but it'll have em lining up anyway. Will probably compete directly with the Corolla too, price is barely more but you get more. I like it more than the normal Prius - not as dorky somehow. Although I hate the color of that tested car, and the dash design would probably end up bugging me.
Of all 3 Prius models, IMHO this simply makes the most sense, at least economically.
I wonder...
If they build lots of loaded ones, it could cannibalize the Prius liftback.
If they build lots of base models, they could be selling them at a loss.
They should try to balance that, sell most of 'em at $20-22k or so.
Also, Fit is arguably the strongest contender in the B-segment here in the US, too.
I don't see the insect-like qualities in the C, but that's just me.
What we need are little Diesel cars with a $15-20K price tag. Honda makes a Diesel Civic, as an example, and it is a good seller over there as it is inexpensive, reliable, and well, INEXPENSIVE. 30K+ is simply a no-sale.
On another tack, not related to torque, etc. ===>
Check out these EPA numbers on the Prius C -- 53/46/50.
That's diesel territory pardner. :surprise:
They have 104 Corollas in stock. 102 of them are street priced at $17,125 or lower. Then they have 2 loaded ones, $18.6k and $19.4k.
So you're right, not too many loaded ones.
I suspect the C will be the same way, but add $3 grand or so across the board.
Still, what's the cheapest diesel you can get? $22k? I bet most of those are $25k.
Should VW consider the Polo TDI here? I bet if the C is a hit, they might.
With a new wave of small cars out there, VW needs to get in on it.
Break-even is less than 3 years, so most people would come out ahead.
Corolla is old tech (4 speed auto) and expenses were written off long ago, agree that now they just build tons and count the money.