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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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As I have posted, the difference in real life IS enormous !!!
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1073034_ge-employees-get-chevy-volt-electric- -cars-all-gas-use-oked-sometimes
but seriously thanks for the numbers and points re 'road load'. i've heard it referred to as 'road horsepower' - same thing.
true fact, LEADFOOT LARRY has given up on diesels for a while, but is hoping for improved offerings soon, and would consider a CPO 335d with 99k miles if the price was very right... For example, LF-Larry knows that his close friend LEISURE SUIT LARRY will buy/review the Cayenne Diesel as soon as it is available at his local auto-mall!
Back to LEADFOOT LARRY: he has put 100k miles on 4 diesels, with barely varying mpg for the 100k miles, tank after tank, mostly highway & suburban. all stickshifts except passat&beetle.
- 2003 VW TDI wagon, 48 mpg
- 2005 VW Passat, automatic, 37 mpg
- 2006 VW jetta TDI - 44 mpg
- 2006 VW beetle DSG TDI - 44 mpg
LL in his ~9 V8 stickshift gassers, all but cruze 100k each:
- GM v8s -> 21 to 28 mpg.
- Cruze -> 33 mpg
hmm, maybe an LS1 would convert nicely to a diesel... who would be interested in buying one of those?... ... crickets ...
Volt = $667.38
TDI = $1,663.71"...
So at CA rates, (.295 cents and ABOVE as Shiftright mentions can go as high add .40 cents per kWh) Volt would cost app 369% more or $2,461 dollars.
Given the 4.09 per gal diesel TDI costs would be (3.8%)higher also. Even without calculation, it would take a LONG time to BE, if even for some quirk that is possible.
So for example, even if I wanted an out door solar charging station at my house it was and remains against the law. Technically, economically, practically and lawfully, it remains an improbability to impossibility. (sure I also know "boot legged 3 to 5k tops) IF I wanted a "legal" charging station, I would have to apply for a permit, buy the charger, pay labor, be willing to be inspected yearly and be ok with a min of an increase in property assessments. I would also buy fuel at 369% to 500% more per kilowatt hour than say .08 cents per kWh that AZ folks pay?. So I say again,@ 4.09 per gal diesel with the fuel conversion factor would now be 15.09 per gal to 20.45 per gal diesel.
The realites do not in anyway match the liberal spin on "clean and inexpensive energy".
With a Volt, they could defer recharging but then might end up using the car strictly on the gas engine in order to avoid some rather intimidating electric bills.
Sure if I boot legged it and was "discovered", the building department could issue a cease and desist order. If I refuse inspection, they can get a subpoena, get the sheriffs department to provide [non-permissible content removed] entry and issue arrest warrants up to eviction proceedings. If I count on them to be "liberal", they will jack boot me and label the house uninhabitable and start tax and foreclosure and legal proceedings against me. They also can direct the utilities to shut down sewer, water,gas, electric . So what is the going rate for lawyers fees at 200-500 per hour? Even a dummy knows the lawyer will ask his client IF it is worth $xxxxxx to fight city hall ? LOL in any case even a dummy doesn't need a lawyer to lay out the options.
I would probably get more "time" and hassle than someone arrested for illegal drug distribution. SF turns a blind eye to MJ sales legal or otherwise :sick:
Now keep in mind clean electric energy is what the liberal "passionately want to implement" (corollary? my op/ed? the passion is in the EXTREMELY higher fees and costs)
I am not sure if anybody contemplate the meaning of a 40,000 VOLT. Or does anyone wonder why a Tesla costs 100,000 ?
Frontier days are over, but I think there are socially acceptable ways to be 'green', or "greener".
My theory is that if you are merely BUYING green instead of LIVING green, it's gonna end up disappointing you.
my two cents.
In SC, unless you have neighborhood covenants prohibiting solar cells or live within an urban area (there aren't many "urban areas" per se' in SC), there aren't any restrictions at all about installing solar cells. I have personally completed many electrical and plumbing additions and never had a moment's difficulty with passing inspection, both for myself and for friends (although I never acted as anything but an "advisor" from a regulatory concern when doing projects for my friends).
Of course, the installation must pass inspection by local authorites, but as far as I know, as long as you have the "smarts" to install the systems according to industry standards you can do the work yourself and have an inspector simply sign-off that it meets standards.
Its a far cry from back when I used to attend trade shows in Chicago as a vendor, and wasn't even allowed to plug in a 120V lamp in my booth... That required a unionized "electrician" to do that.
San Francisco is not particularly "enlightened" about environment--this is a popular misconception without any real basis---SF is more reactive than pro-active. They talk big but, for instance, SF mass transit pretty much sucks and if you're on a bicycle, you're as good as dead. It's my impression, perhaps flawed, that SF spends more time punishing you for doing bad things than rewarding you for doing good ones. Maybe most cities are like that now.
Real innovation comes out of places like Berkeley, where the residents will actually sacrifice something for a nicer environment. that's where you'd see charging stations for the public, if anywhere. But Berkeley is a small city without a lot of clout.
Indeed that is why I laid out both the fairy tale and realities. If you want the fairy tale you have to accept the realities. It is the code word for what part of NO, don't you understand?
Really , on the other hand I helped a friend lay out a 5,000 dollar solar system in a more rural area of CA. It was your typical normal small place in the country, 5,000 sq ft. 3 car garage, shop area the size of the three car garage, satellite cable TV, internet etc. He had absolutely no issues getting it past country. He didn't have to deal with the electric utility because they wanted to charge him an arm and leg to get a power pole to his property.
The current 5.0 L V-8 2012 offering of 380 # ft of torque, only is rated at 14/19 mpg and I am sure that is probably on good days. Who would not like 30% better fuel mileage?
If the Mitsubishi dealers would just bring vehicles from the partner Peugeot we may get the same high mileage vehicles the Europeans enjoy.
It's hard to push a string.
GM needs to brag about how many of these sleds they've managed to move. So far, not many.
It also makes one wonder why it has not been adopted or embraced for exampled uses and of course more widespread (business/government use).
The nexus here? Expenses here can have tax credits, incentives and expenses are fully tax deductible and depreciation can be as fast as the year put in service to almost any depreciation cycle, it makes sense for individual business ventures see fit to put it on.
No and no, it is in the real world. Gagrice's sq ft figures are pretty close.
We could put it in electrical terms. So for example a normal 3/4 bedroom house is more normally 200 amps. This house has 600 amps.
People have memories like elephants for that kind of thing.
My anecdotal evidence for the day - my mother, over forty years as a meticulous engineer, showed me her log books where her Golf TDI gets 33 city and 40 highway.
Edmunds.com web site is certainly experiencing issues.
The same basic engine-block was "built like a tank" when in gasoline-guise...but when fitted-up for diesel-work, it would run 500,000 miles (equivalent) when installed in an ocean-going vessel.
I owned the 1.5L, 1.6L and 2.0L gasoline versions.... but my 1.9L TDI is still getting up to 56 MPG on highway trips.
I guess I come at this from researching once that the I6 for a 1987 Toyota Landcruiser was once or currently licensed as a Chevrolet I-6. So as a "Toyota I6 engine product" it was built like a tank for a min of 25 years. There is no doubt in my mind, the same would be true as an I-6 diesel TDI product.
So given your 56 mpg, you are getting +Plus 7 mpg above EPA or 14.3%. +plus. Keep up the good work. There are many that visit the diesel board that think my 50 mpg (48-52 mpg in a point A to point B commute) is at a min an exaggeration to an outright lie.
I also owned a 1978 Rabbit (gasser) product (2 dr/manual) . I got no where near 50 mpg, let alone your average of 56 mpg. I just do not remember the details. But I do remember 30+ was a can do easy. The only thing to ever go wrong with it was the A/C blew in the Everglades in July/Aug and it was fixed under warranty. I had it till 96,000 miles and sold it.
Before that I bought a 1970 VW Beetle used in 1971. My father thought I was crazy for running it app 250,000 miles before selling it to buy the 1978 Rabbit due to the fact it did not have A/C. 1.5k to 3k OCI's certainly got tedious in a hurry.
My take after 34 years? The system is still threatened by 50+ mpg.(EPA 40C/53H)
http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Fuel/1978/Volkswagen/Dasher+Wagon
Best mileage on the Accord was a long trip, 36 MPG. EPA all wet on that car.
http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Fuel/1978/Honda/Accord
Another issue was there were CA products (diesel and gasser) and for lack of a better word at that time OTHER products ( 49 state) At that time the 78 VW Rabbit was both a 49 state product and used regular leaded gas . The historical data indicated both the CA product and the CA product using RUG. So while I would assume the durability and reliability rates were similar, I think that would be a bad assumption.
The 78 Accord was pretty bad, though...you guys are right about that.
Right today the only VW that is on a possible list is the Touareg TDI. And ever so unlikely the new Beetle TDI. Because my wife likes the looks and she loved her Porsches. All 4 of them. Most fun being the 914 Porsche.
PS
I just forgot. I rented a 2010 Accord for 2 weeks. It was a noisy POC worthless pile of Junk. They have not improved at all IMO.
How did Toyota put the sludge issue to bed?
With an idiot light. "Maintenance Required" lights up after 5k miles.
No complaints of sludge since, despite longer intervals.
My next door neighbor had a '78 Rabbit diesel and it rusted so badly you could almost SEE the rust spreading through the body.
I bet the '78 Accord was 100 times better, and all things are relative, you have to compare to other cars from the same era (modern cars are much better, VW uses galvanized steel now).
The diesel engine ran but it basically fell out of a rotted, rusty shell after a while. It was perhaps the worst car I've ever seen in my life.
And we owned a Vega.
That says a LOT.
In diesel news, In the Past 10 Years, Emissions From Diesel Trucks and Buses Have Been Reduced By 99% for NOx and 98% for Particulate Emissions (Yahoo)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Rabbit-rabbit-1981-Volkswagen-Diesel-P- ickup-5-speed-/170786599418?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item27c3acb1fa
It would make you wonder what was wrong with it in the first place prior to 2002 to want them want to make the so called improvement in oil circulation.?
On your diesel news post, since Oct 2006, with switching mandatory in June 2006, ULSD has less sulfur ppm than RUG to PUG. Indeed ULSD is cleaner. The standard for RUG to PUG is 30 ppm. With off line mitigation (aka fees), it can be sold at the pumps as high as 90 ppm. ULSD on the other hand is strictly penalized above 15 ppm sulfur. As a result, it is sold at the pump or nominally delivered from 5 to 7 ppm sulfur. As folks know biodiesel can be ZERO.ppm sulfur. So defacto, RUG to PUG is 2 times or 200% dirtier than ULSD. It can be from 2 to 18 times dirtier than ULSD. This is by laws and regulations.
Over time?
They basically blamed it on the customers that had the issues. When they could no longer blame the customers and the complaints keep mounting and some one filed a class action lawsuit they got to ignore it further until the case was adjudicated. Adjudication included no admission of wrong doing and they continued to sell the engines for several decades. If the 2002 redesign was to address the issue of an engine areas that cook engine oil (aka sludge) then that indicates at least 17 or more MY's. Obviously it was not ONLY their mainstream I4 engine.
Over time?
They basically blamed it on the customers that had the issues. When they could no longer blame the customers and the complaints keep mounting and some one filed a class action lawsuit: they got to ignore it even further until the case was adjudicated. Adjudication included no admission of wrong doing and they continued to sell the (sludge a magic) engines for several decades.
If the 2002 redesign was to address the issue of V-6 engine areas that cook engine oil (aka sludge) then that indicates at least 17 or more MY's. Obviously it was not ONLY their mainstream I4 engine.
Interesting thing is the VW Jetta's i4 turbo diesel engine is eat off the camshaft surface clean. As stated before, not only do the original factory marking show (camshaft) but the engine is run on a steady 20,000 miles and switching to 30,000 miles OCI's. Oil is consumed from 1/4 qt to 1/2 qt (8 oz to 16 oz) @ app 30,000 miles.
Now I like to top (dumb really, as I might add 3 oz at a time). But if one subscribes to adding when a qt low, really I don't have to add at all. Just change oil and filter @ 30,000 miles !!!!! :shades: