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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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How does a smaller tank help mpg though - the weight savings of the tank itself would be insignificant (replaced the tank on my integra this summer and know all about the weight). The tank does not have to be full for the test.
As far as acceleration with a diesel, I think we have some pretty short memories. Back in the late 70's there were plenty of cars that had trouble breaking 15 seconds to 60. The Rabbit diesel was around 17 back then with 48 or 52 hp. A regular Rabbit was about 14 and that was perfectly safe if not peppy. I remember when CR tested the VW bus and rated it unacceptable because it could not reach 60 mph in the length of their test track. I think they were over 20 seconds and ran out of room. Plenty of people managed do drive those slugs.
I am not saying that I miss those days, or that 17-20 seconds to 60 is OK today, but in my opinion a car with good throttle response and no dead spots in the power curve can be quite safe if it can go to 60 mph in 15 seconds. Try accelerating your car to 60 in 15 seconds sometime - it really isn't that slow.
My Scirocco hit 60 in about 11.5 and it always felt very peppy. My integra about 9.5 and it felt quite quick. Now my Accord is another 2 seconds faster (7.5 for a 2007 4 cyl and MT) and it has way more power than I have ever needed in 136,000 miles of driving. Never had to come close to flooring it - of course I still do occasionally for fun but not because I need to.
I don't get that part either.
Maybe smaller gas tank, lighter/smaller mounting brackets? Plus the weight of the fuel? Seems pretty extreme to get +0.01 mpg.
the cheapest Prius for 21,560 GBP.
A well equipped Prius with leather is 26,820 GBP
Top of the line VW Sportswagen TDI with DSG is 24,840 GBP
He sold it to a neighbor's son, someone who had helped us rebuild the engine on it once, and that guy blew the engine two days later by trying to drive it 65 on I-84 to Portland. To the engine's credit, he made it all the way to Arlington (from Pendleton area) before it popped. My friend warned him time and again to never drive it faster than 55. It was a sad end. :sick:
71 mpg for a U.S. spec car on U.S. roads? I'll believe THAT when I see it.
Usually I like to stop at a station and lift the hood, look around, check tire pressure, look for more parts falling off my MINI, etc, and 500 miles is about as long as I like to keep the hood closed.
There's not a MINI alive that'll do that, but I think a Golf TDI certainly would--14.5 gallon tank, and figure 40 mpg. I don't drive for economy--I am relentless, fast and competitive on the road (but never angry) --I can't help it---born and raised in NYC. :shades:
The Golf TDI comes well-equipped and it is, like the MINI, well-built, but it is, like the MINI, pretty darn pricey for a little fellah.
I would if there are any good leases out there right now.
40 to 45 mpg is reasonable for the new 2.0 TDI. 236# ft.
I've already short-circuited two major disasters in my MINI by just looking under the hood---a very slight thermostat housing leak and minor distortion of the shock towers.
If say a dealer replaces your oil filter and they don't seal it properly, or there's a small leak in a hose, and you drive the car to the engine's destruction, you think warranty claim is going to be easy?
I do every so often because it is made in Germany and assembled in MEXICO !?
I do clean the (air box pre filter which actually functions as a snow prophylactic being as how B/C is a demo political topic?) snorkel every 5,000 miles or so.
All it needs are a 10 MM nut driver (tools baby tools, not a licensed driver, nor me if you were thinking that :P ) .
Since they are responsible for the first 30,000 miles (on the hook till 40,000 miles) yes. It would be their own negligence.
67*16 is almost 1100 miles. You could get by with 15 gallons, but 16 is a common tank size in most of the world. 4 extra gallons of fuel is about 40 lbs to the weight of the car, including the extra weight of the larger tank. Hardly worth mentioning.
Oh, and the number or Yaris alone that are sold to businesses and people that are looking for a cheap way to get good mpg alone should tell you how many VW would sell. Under $20K, 1000 mile per tank range. Absolutely would crush the competition.
The Polo would sell for about $14995. The prices that you typically see in the U.K. after Vat and all of that are almost exactly the same as the base sticker prices here in the U.S. At that price, it would crush the micro-cars like the Smart and IQ as it would get better economy and also have four doors.
Buying one would save me $200 a month in fuel costs, and that's more than half the car payment right there.
But there's pretty good data from indie sources other than anecdotal, to suggest that a car built in Japan is better assembled than one built it Germany. :P
Honda in particular is kicking butt in reliability ratings right now. The difference between Honda and Chrysler is like...startling.
golden commando engine that could get to 60 in 7 seconds flat. At the time I thought it was really fast and had the tickets to prove it.
Now I understand there are some specific engine building and assembly plants, location unadvertised. Judging by the new engines lack of issues, I would say it probably have not skipped too many beats.
link title
Fuel economy.gov shows ranges of 20-31 mpg THH, 33-43 mpg FFH, only because this is a diesel thread, 40-49 mpg VWJ TDI.
The reason for this is that the German government charges huge import fees for components compared to local suppliers, so most German companies all source from the same few suppliers for electrical components. Note, in Japan, they do the exact same thing.
Denzo is a lot better at making things, apparently, than Bosch (as an example). The parts that fail on most vehicles that we notice are usually not made directly by the auto companies themselves. So while Mercedes, for instance, makes among the very best engines and stunning interiors, it's the same crap as VW and the rest when it comes to things like wiring for the stereo (fiber optic? really?) and switches and motors for the sunroof and so on.
It's not really their fault, either. If they let up on the restrictions, parts from China would obliterate the entire German electronics industry, well, pretty much like it has in the U.S.
I have no idea why Japanese black boxes are so much more reliable than German black boxes.
If I buy a TDI (and I may once the MINI is tired), I'm going to be more pre-emptive with the car, getting a VAG tool and factory workshop manual.
I had a knowledge lag when I bought the MINI, which I regret, and had to scramble to deal with all the known issues---now the car is under control and I'm quite pleased with it.
It's interesting that the MINI has all the typical German car issues---little trim pieces falling off, electronic ghosts that come and go, and the apparent inability of the Germans to correct a known problem, and just let it go on year after year. I can see 1 or 2 years to correct an issue, but 3-5 years of the same issue gets tiresome.
As you know, VW's and specifically TDI's are actually designed with R/R ment in mind.
I would only choose an extended warranty if a) I was determined to keep the car a long long time and b) once I carefully, and I mean carefully, reviewed all the exclusions.
Given the expense to repair some cars, say a German MINI, with the $2200 clutch jobs and $6800 transmissions, an extended warranty is not necessarily out of the question. Neither of these is a backyard mechanic job anymore.
My op/ed it is that it is particularly on topic for the diesel, because many of the enthusiasts take the longer view, and in effect don't mind the R/R ing, whether: DIY, independent shop's, guru's, dealer's and or combinations. I can use examples if that is of more widespread interest.
But sure, oil changes, fuel filters, brakes, hoses, belts, the inevitable electrical glitches--we can do all that.
The first and only thing done on that TDI with 175,000 + miles has been a timing belt and water pump change recommended @ 100,000 miles but normally done in a range of 90,000 to 120,000 miles. It literally can be done with a more enthusiasts mentality. However by the time you assemble all the right special tools, consult your technical data, run into unresolved issues, get familiar with the procedures, make sure you change the 30-40 parts and reset your settings with the VAG.com, it is worth it to go to a GTG and get the puppy done in 2-4 hours and drink beers and eat BBQ in the process.
He's lucky he doesn't live anywhere near me. I'd be on his doorstep all the time quizzing him about this and that, and breathing down his neck as he wrenched on my Outback. :P
Given VWs reliability records, statistically I would pretty much count on having little glitches during the warranty period and more serious issues afterwards. I'd have to see how the car behaved during warranty to judge whether it'd be a "keeper" or not.
Even though modern cars are all mass-produced like cookies, for some reason, some of them turn out a lot better than others. Go figure.
F/F to 2009 MY VW Jetta TDI with 35,000 miles, it has literally been flawless. Again @ best I was pitched a statistical middle most example. Sure it has had its share of TSB's technical service bulletins (3?) There was also some brouhaha about the DSG (transmission). For some unknown reason, VW stepped up and extended the drivetrain warranty TO 10 year 100,000 miles. The Bosch fuel pump issue is RARE. Again VW stepped up again and will do it under warrant for 10 years 100,000 miles.
Given that a lot of cars do in fact USE common oem parts vendors, it is a tad TMI. That is why US made Honda's (like the Civic) rise to the top. Statistically they have figured out how to balance some to all of the variables juggled and remain being seen as one of the more "reliable" oems.
Also, lighter materials also tend to have some unique physical properties which make them a challenge to use. As an example - simply replacing CAST pistons with FORGED pistons made of the same material (aluminum) ... On paper, the FORGED pistons are stronger and lighter- BUT, in use, the FORGED pistons expand faster and hence are susceptible to "cold seizing" if the engine is not warmed-up properly. (I wonder how would that go over on a daily-driver?)
Unfortunately, "weight savings" almost always means "more cost". Lighter materials are usually more expensive to use, design and repair when they break.
Simply look at some of the 'supercars' which have very high power-to-weight ratios. The use of Graphite, Titanium, Inconel, composites, plastics...etc make these vehicles cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you bump into a curb and crack the body... expect to pay huge sums on money for a specialist who knows how to repair these exotic materials.
Another example: I have been asked to "fix" some fairly new Briggs-n-Stratton engines which may be less than 2 years old. When I find the PLASTIC GEARS for the camshaft are worn smooth... there is no easy fix for this. The valves simply do not work any more.
1. one step forward, two steps back.
2. what the government wants at the time or politically correct
3. what the market wants
4. what the oems build in response to all of the above.
My corollary: if you are the "correct side of it: "no BIG DEAL".
Even with American diesels as few as there are, one case in point is the 03 TDI. The real 1b corollary: who the hell cares?
The 03 Jetta TDI hits the US market 2,950 #'s. The real issues would be how many cars that come in @ app this weight get (EPA 42/49) 50 mpg? To me it is heavy, to most that are probably looking for cars, too light. It is a well known fact (supported by real world passenger vehicle fleets, etc) not many folks ACTUALLY buy sub 3000 # cars. The small car segment is 25%. 75% of the passenger vehicle fleet is the larger car/truck (aka heavier) segment. I am sure the majority of that minority segment weigh more. To make a (rule of thumb) minus- 5 mpg difference on weight alone, you are talking - 500 #'s or 2,500 # car. Even a smaller minority buy these (lighter) cars.
At the time I have read, the US government was concerned that generation of TDI's had too much power. Subtext would read: got way too many MPG's. BUT they could not say that, insofar as the stated policy is to get BETTER mpg NOT WORSE !! ??? On this issue I think one would have to scratch one's head in that the US version came in country @ 90 hp. So the fix was smaller injectors and 1 less gear (5 speed manual vs 6 speed manual) and MINUS - 2 mpg less than the European version. Now I do not know if the European version weighed more or less than the US version.
To be expected for large, mid-size, and compact, no? These aren't comparably sized cars. The HH is actually bigger than the Touareg.
And again, most people will never see 50 mpg in that TDI. More like 42-44, and with a number of compromises that many Americans are not willing to make in an automobile.
I'd say the diesel car's future in America is looking worse, not better, at the moment, unless some startling new product is about to hit our shores--re-opening the gap, so to speak, in mileage and range between diesel and gas cars.
Right now, with gas engines catching up on MPG, and diesel fuel prices exceeding premium fuel prices---I just don't see any great change in the overall picture.
For diesel enthusiasts, the GLK refresh brings good news in the form of a four-cylinder diesel. The engine we’ll see here displaces 2.1 liters; we’ll probably get the most powerful version offered in Europe, which has 204 hp and 369 lb-ft. We’ve heard, too, that Mercedes is expecting the diesel GLK to score an EPA highway fuel-economy rating in the upper 30s.
The 2.1-liter diesel four also will power a version of the next-gen C-class, which we expect to debut in about two years. Mercedes-Benz hopes to sell eight diesel models in the U.S. by the end of 2014
Despite not being a standout in any regard, the GLK sells well, and Benz’s number crunchers say 65 percent of its buyers are new to the Mercedes brand. Updated duds and revised engines should help strengthen its position. Expect the refreshed GLK and its optional diesel to arrive at dealers this summer.