Real-World Trade-In Values

stickguy

They aren’t going to appreciate sitting there. That’s why I thought they could put them in the loaner fleet, then sell as CPO or normal used.

I’d probably buy it at $28k. And finance for a lotta years. Seems like a good deal for an ultra low mile used one.

qbrozen

henryn said:

When I was shopping for my new F150 a couple of months ago, the dealer had some left over 2017 models. Yes, we’re talking in June of 2018, they had several new 2017 models sitting around.

I told my salesman I would buy one if they would make me the “right offer”. His answer was they couldn’t do it. The 2018 models had about $5k in factory incentives, the 2017 models had no incentives. Even with the dealership willing to take a small loss on the 2017, they could not match the price of the 2018. Never mind beat the price, which is what they would have had to do.

I have no idea what they are going to do with those 2017 models. And I don’t think they have any idea either.

I don't know why they say that. My understanding is that the manufacturers pay out the final incentive, whatever that is, on leftover models directly to the dealer. I can't remember who told me that; possibly Terry? And, yes, at some point, that vehicle is going to wind up at auction where they will take an even bigger hit. No idea why they so adamantly resist getting rid of an aged unit when they can.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Sorry. Premier with convenience, BLIS and bun warmers. They do seem to have them priced more like a 2018. Hence the offer a number that makes sense for me idea.

It might get, at most, $22k at auction. Even if you were so inclined to pay a premium for the privilege of being the first owner, $27k is the absolute end of the world for it. Otherwise, just find a low-mileage CPO, which probably has a better warranty anyway.

28firefighter

For whatever it's worth, I looked at some 2017 Infiniti QX70s with my Dad a few weeks back, and even at this point in the 2018 MY, they still hadn't received their final pay from Infiniti for them.

qbrozen

that's a good point. maybe they have to hang onto them until that happens, whenever that may be.

henryn

qbrozen said:

henryn said:

When I was shopping for my new F150 a couple of months ago, the dealer had some left over 2017 models. Yes, we’re talking in June of 2018, they had several new 2017 models sitting around.

I told my salesman I would buy one if they would make me the “right offer”. His answer was they couldn’t do it. The 2018 models had about $5k in factory incentives, the 2017 models had no incentives. Even with the dealership willing to take a small loss on the 2017, they could not match the price of the 2018. Never mind beat the price, which is what they would have had to do.

I have no idea what they are going to do with those 2017 models. And I don’t think they have any idea either.

I don't know why they say that. My understanding is that the manufacturers pay out the final incentive, whatever that is, on leftover models directly to the dealer. I can't remember who told me that; possibly Terry? And, yes, at some point, that vehicle is going to wind up at auction where they will take an even bigger hit. No idea why they so adamantly resist getting rid of an aged unit when they can.

All I know, I was sitting there, checkbook in hand, ready to make a deal. Which I eventually did, on a new 2018. They flat were not interested in trying to make a deal on the 2017. This dealership has their prices online, and they are fairly firm with those prices. When you first walk in, they try to hit you with some "dealer add-ons", but when I tell them to "throw that out or I walk", they throw away the dealer add-ons.

Their online prices for the 2017 models were slightly higher than for the equivalent 2018. Which didn't make any sense, thus my saying, "Make me a deal and you can get rid of one of those 2017 models," The salesman told me he couldn't do it (lower the advertised price on the 2017), and they never showed any inclination to try and make that deal.

My thoughts on the subject were basically that the 2017 model needed to be at least $1500 to $2000 cheaper, roughly 5 to 7%. And even with $2k off, it would have been iffy. Now $3k off, and I would have been writing a check.

Not my problem, luckily. I'm very happy with my new 2018, and it was a very good deal. Listening to others in here talk about the prices for the new Tundras makes me even happier with my Ford!

stickguy

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

Sorry. Premier with convenience, BLIS and bun warmers. They do seem to have them priced more like a 2018. Hence the offer a number that makes sense for me idea.

It might get, at most, $22k at auction. Even if you were so inclined to pay a premium for the privilege of being the first owner, $27k is the absolute end of the world for it. Otherwise, just find a low-mileage CPO, which probably has a better warranty anyway.

50% depreciation in 1 MY? Ouch. Pretty sure though haven’t seen any CPO low mile used ones listed nearly that cheap. What they will really take, who knows. I don’t really have the time or enthusiasm though to drive all over trying to haggle one down though.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

Sorry. Premier with convenience, BLIS and bun warmers. They do seem to have them priced more like a 2018. Hence the offer a number that makes sense for me idea.

It might get, at most, $22k at auction. Even if you were so inclined to pay a premium for the privilege of being the first owner, $27k is the absolute end of the world for it. Otherwise, just find a low-mileage CPO, which probably has a better warranty anyway.

50% depreciation in 1 MY? Ouch. Pretty sure though haven’t seen any CPO low mile used ones listed nearly that cheap. What they will really take, who knows. I don’t really have the time or enthusiasm though to drive all over trying to haggle one down though.

Email if you're serious - ask for a sales manager to be added to the thread and make your case. Worst case you waste a few minutes emailing back and forth.

jpp75

stickguy said:

50% depreciation in 1 MY? Ouch. Pretty sure though haven’t seen any CPO low mile used ones listed nearly that cheap. What they will really take, who knows. I don’t really have the time or enthusiasm though to drive all over trying to haggle one down though.

As a former Volvo lessee I can attest to the massive depreciation. Used they have to be one of the best values out there, but never buy a new one. Never.

kyfdx

There is always a manager involved, that doesn't have a stake in the actual P&L, long term, but does get a bonus, based on his average profit per transaction.

So, while that 2017 keeps depreciating, if he doesn't sell it, it doesn't affect his paycheck. At some point, the company writes down the value, then he can sell it, and not affect his bonus.

Some version of the above, is why sometimes they won't make deals that make actual sense.

stickguy

that is odd. but explains a lot.

if I wanted it, I would just show up in person and settle in for a nice round of passive-aggressive negotiating (I waffle, they lower the price. sometimes it works),

only real issue is it is about 45 minutes from here, and I can't go this weekend because we are in the process of getting my daughter moved out. That happens saturday. so next week I can start looking

henryn

stickguy said:

that is odd. but explains a lot.

if I wanted it, I would just show up in person and settle in for a nice round of passive-aggressive negotiating (I waffle, they lower the price. sometimes it works),

only real issue is it is about 45 minutes from here, and I can't go this weekend because we are in the process of getting my daughter moved out. That happens saturday. so next week I can start looking

I don't think that would work in a case like this. If they are in negative territory (already losing money on the deal), and that is going to effect the Manager's bonus, he does not want to do the deal, at all, period.

Doesn't matter if you act passive aggressive, throw a screaming fit, hold your breath until your face turns blue -- if it's going to cost him money out of his take him pay, he does NOT care.

stickguy

it still makes absolutely no sense from a business perspective. But I have been in the corporate world long enough to realize that dumb decisions are made all the time.

Maybe need to go up the ladder to someone that makes money when they sell units, not sit on them!

tommister2

I agree about leftover 2017s. My neighbor is a VP of a local dealer group. They have a leftover 2017 4runner at the Toyota store. I told him I was interested if he could discount it more than a 2018 but he said there was no difference in price. Really left me scratching my head. Why sit on that leftover unit? I bought a Tundra instead. 

jpp75

@qbrozen Any chance you've seen this VIN go through something recently:

YV1MK672582051994


https://www.royalintlauto.com/2008-Volvo-C30/Used-Hatchback/Denver-CO/11152544/Details.aspx

I've been following these online and to me the price seems fair but the pricing is all over the place so it's hard to tell. The timing belt has been replaced as of June and condition is good for what it is (10 year old car with 128k).

Thanks!

qbrozen

Nope. But similar ones in top condition have been going for $3500-$4k. So try for $6k and pay $6500 if you really must. I say find a manual trans though.

Mr_Shiftright

I kinda like those, too. Price needs to come down, though.

stickguy

I would want it with a stick, and a power driver's seat though. I did not notice if it had a moonroof, but that is also a must. I assume it is a T5?

other than that, perfect!

qbrozen

The c30s were all t5

kyfdx

Yup... one engine.. 230 HP turbo

qbrozen

Thought it was 220? Not that it matters. Just testing my memory.

Mr_Shiftright

Manual transmission versions are hard to find it seems. I searched all of the Bay Area and only found 2---one salvage, one heavily modified.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Thought it was 220? Not that it matters. Just testing my memory.

Now, you are testing mine...

28firefighter

I had a 2011 C30 and loved it. Mine was silver over the two tone cloth interior.  Would have been way better with a stick. Amazing seats. 

Michaell

The one we drove yesterday had a sunroof.

stickguy

If I found one with colors I liked and a stick, that was a decent value , I would give it a whirl.

tifighter

When I was toy car shopping last year, I found and drove a C70 with a stick, which had to be an incredible rarity. Same powertrain as the C30, I guess. Anyhow, the Volvo shifter is rubbery and feels like it wants to bounce back to center pretty easily. I could have lived with it, but someone had clearly smoked in the car, and that was the dealbreaker.

qbrozen

Here is an almost ideal example. They have to get real on price.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/215922993

qbrozen

Sparsely optioned but cheap

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/211624354

qbrozen

Perfect except for miles
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/216033312

stickguy

I like the last one. Cut the price in half, and the miles won't bother me at all. Because it would be the spare car and maybe do 2K/miles a year as basically a toy. Cash deal, so can flip the RDX for a snazzy new car for the wife that we will use to go places together and travel.

so, what is actual street value on that car (using the "show up in person with a small wad of 50's in your pocket plan)

qbrozen

They paid $3300 for it on 8/8. I'd say they went a tad overboard on it but $5k is still fair.

stickguy

cool. I would not pay that much for it, considering what it is. If that was sitting at 3K and ran strong, I would jump on it. Just not something I mention to the wife, until it is home in the garage!

jpp75

Thanks all for the input, I just had lunch with @breld and we discussed it at length.

I agree a stick is preferable, but as noted in the searches above they are few and far between. I've been watching these for a while and prices are all over the board. Some people have them priced very "optimistically" as @qbrozen noted while others are priced more reasonably but are usually (but not always) ratty, miled up or have accident history. To find one in this good of condition locally at a price that's in my preferred range is a rarity. For comparison @breld found a stick shift nearby, 3 years newer and less miles but with an accident for $11,995.

As @stickguy noted this will be purely a fun/secondary car so if it checks out on a PPI the miles don't bother me as much.

I'm looking at parking and insurance quotes tomorrow. The real question becomes can I live with the automatic???

stickguy

if you are asking the question and trying to talk yourself into it, the answer is no. Better to wait until the right car comes along.

jpp75

stickguy said:

if you are asking the question and trying to talk yourself into it, the answer is no. Better to wait until the right car comes along.

Which is completely true, however I've not driven a stick shift in a Volvo so I can't say for sure which one I'd rather have.....

stickguy

well, won't know until you try so keep looking!

nyccarguy

jpp5862 said:

stickguy said:

if you are asking the question and trying to talk yourself into it, the answer is no. Better to wait until the right car comes along.

Which is completely true, however I've not driven a stick shift in a Volvo so I can't say for sure which one I'd rather have.....

Like @stickguy said, don't try and talk yourself into something. Drive it first. I was all set to LOVE a 6-Speed Stick Mini Cooper S. The shifter was rubbery and the clutch take up very high.

pensfan83

@qbrozen can you help me with this one? It was my maternal grandfather's truck and after sitting mostly dormant for the past 9 years my grandmother is now willing to part with it. I'm looking to sell private party. Thanks so much.

2005 Ford F-150 King Ranch 4x4
Black/Tan over Saddle (brown?) Leather
5.4L V8
Fully loaded
About 30,000 miles.
Excellent overall condition
Zip: 15955

28firefighter

That sounds like a really nice truck - I suspect whatever number Q puts on it will not do it justice.

qbrozen

Try for $9995 and take 8500 if it sits too long

pensfan83

It's a beautiful truck, the last vehicle purchase my grandfather made before he passed in 2009....for his 80th birthday no less. It's been sitting garaged for the past 9 years save for the occasional use. My uncle was going to buy it but changed his mind leaving my mom scrambling because she's handling the sale of the house and property and wanted it out of the garage before showings start. It really should have been sold after his passing but every time it was mentioned, even several years later, she brushed it off.

28firefighter

@pensfan83 - I sent a few feelers out to some friends who are still in Pittsburgh. I'll PM you if anyone is interested.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Here is an almost ideal example. They have to get real on price.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/215922993

Yeah that's 2013 money!

pensfan83

28firefighter said:

@pensfan83 - I sent a few feelers out to some friends who are still in Pittsburgh. I'll PM you if anyone is interested.

I appreciate that.

@qbrozen thanks as always for the help.

100chuck

Hey Q what about the price for this car? 1999 Jaguar XK8 68,000 miles. He's asking $6000
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/private-sale-trade-buy-classifieds-9/awesome-xk8-203664/

qbrozen

Pretty reasonable if it checks out and is perfect. If not, start deducting.

Mr_Shiftright

That's about retail. I would have said more like $4,000, but the miles are low and on THAT car, that's very important. Like Q says, these cars need a PPI.

Actually most of these I see are really ratted out--this one looks pretty nice in photos. Could be a decent buy.

Buy the best XK8 you can afford--no fixer uppers.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

That's about retail. I would have said more like $4,000, but the miles are low and on THAT car, that's very important. Like Q says, these cars need a PPI. Actually most of these I see are really ratted out--this one looks pretty nice in photos. Could be a decent buy. Buy the best XK8 you can afford--no fixer uppers.

We are in total agreement.

 $4k would be $1k over dealer auction and $6k is retail. But I'm anticipating this one is nicer than a dealer lot and the repair history is there. I think that deserves the premium. (Again, if it checks out)

explorerx4

I like seller's sense of humor.