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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    28firefighter said:

    Is the 3.0T really beefy enough for a car of that size?

    It seemed plenty quick on my relatively short test drive. It's more or less the equivalent of BMWs turbo 6 I believe.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    qbrozen said:


    jpp5862 said:

    qbrozen said:

    jpp5862 said:

    @qbrozen As much as I love it what's the Touareg worth at auction? 2016 Lux, 12k, North Carolina

    colors? condition? engine?
    Canyon Grey with black interior, V6 gas, other than one small door ding perfect condition. Thanks q.

    About $40k

    Thanks q! I could trade out for just about the payoff if I could find something else I liked
  • jcorpuzjcorpuz Member Posts: 19
    edited November 2016
    Hello, I was referred to this discussion from another on edmunds.com. I'm in the process of purchasing a vechile and will be trading in a car. No accedent all service at BMW dealership. I live in Dallas, TX 

    The trade:
    2013 BMW 328i Sport rwd
    63k miles
    White
    Sportline, Tech package, premium package
    Heads up display 
    Front and rear sonar
    Navigation
    Bluetooth
    Heated seats

    I feel dealership are low balling a premium vechile and cant imagine a MSRP of $47k would depreciate by 63% in 3 years.

    Thank for the help.

  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    Hmmm.... $47,000 minus 63% leaves about $17,390 ?? That's your trade in offer?
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    edited November 2016
    jcorpuz said:

    Hello, I was referred to this discussion from another on edmunds.com. I'm in the process of purchasing a vechile and will be trading in a car. No accedent all service at BMW dealership. I live in Dallas, TX 

    The trade:
    2013 BMW 328i Sport rwd
    63k miles
    White
    Sportline, Tech package, premium package
    Heads up display 
    Front and rear sonar
    Navigation
    Bluetooth
    Heated seats

    I feel dealership are low balling a premium vechile and cant imagine a MSRP of $47k would depreciate by 63% in 3 years.

    Thank for the help.

    I need to know how many doors it has. How is the carfax? Any previous bodywork?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,317
    328i would be a 4-door; it's an F30.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    My Manheim app states both 2-door coupe 328i and 4-door sedan 328i. AFAIK, the trunklid has the same badge on both models, does it not?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jcorpuzjcorpuz Member Posts: 19
    edited November 2016
    It's a sedan. No body work, one tire may need to replaced but passed safety inspection last month.
  • jcorpuzjcorpuz Member Posts: 19
    Just came back from Carmax, they offered $15,800.00.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    $15,800 is strong. Most are right around $15k at auction. Problem is, there are an absolute glut of these available, and yours is near the bottom of the heap in terms of miles. Dealers have dozens to choose from with 30k miles for $18k, for example. Yours is well equipped, so you might consider private sale, if feasible. You could probably ask $20k and get near it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,817
    So I guess the answer is yes, it depreciated that much if you paid full MSRP.
    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,317
    qbrozen said:

    My Manheim app states both 2-door coupe 328i and 4-door sedan 328i. AFAIK, the trunklid has the same badge on both models, does it not?

    My bad, the 428i was introduced in 2013 as a 2014 model in North America. In the rest of the world it was introduced as a 2013.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,317
    edited November 2016
    28firefighter said:

    So I guess the answer is yes, it depreciated that much if you paid full MSRP.

    I paid 69% of MSRP when I bought my CPO M235i; the in-service date was 6/9/14 and I purchased it on 1/30/16. That's why I always say that depreciation is my friend...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • jcorpuzjcorpuz Member Posts: 19
    Didn't pay MSRP can't remember what the internet price was when we bought it. Didn't really have this problem with Japanese premium cars (Lexus), thought BMW was more prestigious and held value. Was wrong on this one.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think Q is giving you the key to understanding this---with all cars, it's not just about the car or its merits, it's about the supply and demand equation. Buyers set the market and according to Q, they have spoken pretty clearly on this one. There's no way for you to accurately predict supply and demand years down the road, when you first buy it. Yeah, leasing companies try to do that, but they aren't always right. And sometimes they aren't trying to be right, as the residual is bait.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    jcorpuz said:
    Didn't pay MSRP can't remember what the internet price was when we bought it. Didn't really have this problem with Japanese premium cars (Lexus), thought BMW was more prestigious and held value. Was wrong on this one.
    Not that you asked, but with the miles you apparently drive, I strongly suggest buying used. Find an older model with low miles to balance out what you will put on. I am in this boat myself by driving 20k-25k a year. So I am looking to pick up a luxo model at least 4 years but with as few miles on it as I can find. By the time I am done with it in 2-3 years, it will probably then have near average miles for its age and will only cost me maybe $10k-$15k in depreciation.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    Q, I am in the opposite situation. Now, I drive so little, I am better off finding a higher miles for it's age unit like that BMW, and buy it for a good discount because of that, and end up at average miles just coming from the other direction.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    definitely the smart move, as long as it has been well taken care of.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    Another way to look at the "depreciation" is to realize that MSRP is hopelessly inflated. Mercedes plays the same game; few people "buy" their C or even E class cars new, they lease them. So it's all about the payment, which it is nine times out of ten in any case. It's better for the brand to offer subsidized leases than (cough, American trucks) huge cash rebates.
    Though, as pickup trucks show, you can have big rebates AND big profits at the same time. But you can't have 'luxury.'

    Remember when the big SUVs came out? The Tahoe in the late 90s? At first, they had ridiculously strong resale, as there was no supply of used vehicles. After production ramped up, this normalized, of course. Banks got into the leasing game in a big way and wrote all sorts of crazy residuals into the contracts... because, hey, we have today's auction numbers, amiright? They lost thousands a unit when the trucks were returned. This was totally predictable, but you don't send an MBA with a spreadsheet to a knife fight.

    Banks are by and large out of leasing now except for the captive houses.
    cheers -mathias
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    These days "invoice" is hopelessly inflated.
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    stever said:

    These days "invoice" is hopelessly inflated.

    If you look over on the Honda CR-V prices paid forum, you will see people getting $3k below invoice. And that is on a fairly low end, fairly inexpensive automobile.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    Blowing out because a major redesign is out shortly

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,923
    Invoice is the new Sticker!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    After all the cars I've bought this year, I shouldn't be looking at anything, but...
    Probably tough to get comps.
    https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Ford-F-150-d337?sourceContext=criteo&showListingId=156031610#listing=156031610
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    CARFAX is clean, miles look correct. Spent its life in Mass. 3 owners.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    nice clean looking truck. rare to find one of those with nice low miles.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    Yeah that's tough. Closest was 100k miles for $3100. Even if I just had to have it, I can't wrap my head around more than maybe $8500 tops. 

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    @Mr_Shiftright,
    Thanks for the Carfax info.
    3 owners = 3 old guys who don't drive much? :)
    Last year, when I was looking for a truck there was nothing like this around.

    Crazy thought in my head.
    My future Son in Law wants to buy a truck next year.
    Of course he's looking at the ones that are 40k.
    I could buy this and gift it after the wedding.
    They live in Ohio but are getting married in CT, so they will need to move the gifts from here to there.
    It would be great to find that with their other gifts when they get back from their Honeymoon.
    Then he doesn't feel the need to buy a 40k truck right away.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    do you have another daughter I can marry, if she comes with a free truck?

    Pretty sure my wife won't mind.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    @stickguy,
    I do have another unmarried daughter.
    If you can make it work, I guess so can I.
    You better be on your A game.
    Before she committed to college, I told her I'd buy her a Mustang GT 500 convertible if she went to an in state school(she loves our old Mustang GT convertible). She declined. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,427
    We might go look at this one, tomorrow.
    Too much, but it's a stick.
    Hard to find comps on the wagons.

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/684804646/overview/

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    explorerx4 said:

    @stickguy,
    I do have another unmarried daughter.
    If you can make it work, I guess so can I.
    You better be on your A game.
    Before she committed to college, I told her I'd buy her a Mustang GT 500 convertible if she went to an in state school(she loves our old Mustang GT convertible). She declined. :)

    Hmm, might work better for my son (also unmarried). He would really go for the Mustang! plus a much better catch than me.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    nice looking audi, but seems pricey for that age. Not sure I trust one from that vintage.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,427
    stickguy said:

    nice looking audi, but seems pricey for that age. Not sure I trust one from that vintage.

    Yeah... they got the TSI engine upgrade in 2009.

    Really low miles on that one. Stick-shift quattro wagons are like hen's teeth.
    Probably only looking at it, because it's less than 30 minutes away. ;)

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  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    kyfdx said:

    stickguy said:

    nice looking audi, but seems pricey for that age. Not sure I trust one from that vintage.

    Yeah... they got the TSI engine upgrade in 2009.

    Really low miles on that one. Stick-shift quattro wagons are like hen's teeth.
    Probably only looking at it, because it's less than 30 minutes away. ;)
    It was a mid-year 2008 changeover, at least for the Passat. The 2008 Passat I owned had the TSI engine.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    edited November 2016
    Stick-shift quattro wagons are like hen's teeth.

    Hold that right there. Zero right in on hen's teeth - interesting choice of words together - haven't heard that in either a long time, or...ever. :p

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,427
    iluvmysephia1 said:

    Stick-shift quattro wagons are like hen's teeth.

    Hold that right there. Zero right in on hen's teeth - interesting choice of words together - haven't heard that in either a long time, or...ever. :p

    I get around.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    kyfdx said:

    We might go look at this one, tomorrow.
    Too much, but it's a stick.
    Hard to find comps on the wagons.

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/684804646/overview/

    Gone!
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I get around.

    I'd have to agree!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,570
    henryn said:

    kyfdx said:

    stickguy said:

    nice looking audi, but seems pricey for that age. Not sure I trust one from that vintage.

    Yeah... they got the TSI engine upgrade in 2009.

    Really low miles on that one. Stick-shift quattro wagons are like hen's teeth.
    Probably only looking at it, because it's less than 30 minutes away. ;)
    It was a mid-year 2008 changeover, at least for the Passat. The 2008 Passat I owned had the TSI engine.
    And your were lucky to have the TSI! The FSI in my '06 Passat, smooth, powerful (fun), economical used oil at around 750-900/qt and was always triggering the CEI for multiple reasons on a regular basis. If I could make it 6 weeks without a visit to the VW dealer I was doing well. I really liked that car but it soured me on VWs--at least for a while.

    2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    My GTI had the FSI and I had no problems with it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,067
    edited November 2016
    More information about FSI and TSI than you'll probably ever need:

    http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f3e01bf511d4da3315c66902d6.r6.cf1.rackcdn.com/FSIvTSI.pdf

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    Being a mid-year changeover, it caused me some problems. The older FSI used a cartridge style oil filter, the newer TSI used a completely different style of oil filter. Many parts were different, and the parts houses and online suppliers all wanted to sell me parts for the older engine. I got in the habit of saying or entering "2009 Passat", not "2008 Passat", which made life simpler.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,427
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    kyfdx said:

    We might go look at this one, tomorrow.
    Too much, but it's a stick.
    Hard to find comps on the wagons.

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/684804646/overview/

    Gone!
    Yup.. found that out

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What was it?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    2007 audi A4 avant 2.0T stickshift.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, scary car to maintain. It would nickel and dime you for sure.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,427
    While total cost is always a concern, I decided a while ago to not drive boring cars, in fear of spending money on repairs.

    I do spend more money on repairs/maintenance now, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much as you'd think.

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    The discussion did get somewhat derailed, but I was hoping for some sort of ballpark # on the F150.
    I know comps are going to be tough to find.
    A SWAG is ok, too. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    explorerx4 said:

    The discussion did get somewhat derailed, but I was hoping for some sort of ballpark # on the F150.
    I know comps are going to be tough to find.
    A SWAG is ok, too. :)

    It's difficult with the extremely low miles but sometimes dealers treat low miles like gold when they are more like maybe silver or brass.

    My SWAG would be about $7,500 dealer retail. The dealer may have paid a lot to get it, don't know. As they say "the profit is in the buy, not the sell", so they may be into it rather deep.

    If you had to have it and decided to be as generous as the law allows, then maybe $8K---but at that price, don't expect to recoup that as the miles go up.

    Me personally I'd offer $5500 but of course they wouldn't consider that.

    This is the kind of truck where they may have to buy it a birthday cake before they make a realistic deal on it. I mean, c'mon, it's 15 years old!
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