Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
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Tonight I went to look at a Dodge Grand Caravan. Gave the Jeep keys to the salesman and asked him for an appraisal while I went on the test drive. Have all original service records and it's got 30K miles on it. Original window sticker was waiting on the passenger seat so they could get the vehicle specs.
Came back from the test drive. Salesman comes out and tells me the Jeep is worth $8400. I say thanks and ask for my keys back. Tell him what I've been quoted from other dealers - $10K Ford, $8K & $9K Chrysler and $6.5K Toyota :confuse:
He says "let me talk to the sales manager". Comes back "there's no way you were quoted that high". Me, "Do you want to see the paperwork?" Him "well, that must be on a used vehicle, not one with employee pricing". Me "the sale price shouldn't factor into my trade value, it's a separate transaction". Him "let me talk to the sales manager" (keys are still being held hostage, but I have my spares on me). Comes back: "good news, we were just contacted by another dealer that will give us $9.7K for it". Me "I'm shocked". :P
Won't be getting the Caravan since it won't fit the father and dog, but I loved the exchange. I just wish they'd give a straight up price and let me get on with it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
1. GM website puts in fine print that the price shown includes all applicable general-puclic rebates. Thus, you cannot say take $18.8K and subtract 3 thousand bucks. It is simply applying the same thing twice. GM emplyee price before rebates is usually a bit above "nominal" invoice minus holdback. I know it would be better to simply ignore that disclosure, pretend it is not there and demand extra $3K in rebates, just for the sake of it. Perhaps they'll bite. But it is exactly the same kind of tacticts working opposite way as some dealers do, when as a starter offer they padd couple of grand above MSRP, add some ridiculous APR and act like it is the best deal in the world. Perhaps the customer will bite?
2. Rebate before tax - I think it may all vary from state to state. When I was shopping (Florida) I was told the same thing: tax is paid on price before any customer cash back. Perhaps dealers sometimes circumvent it by "assigning" rebate to the dealer, but I don't know how it really works.
3. If you have a Chevy, I don't believe you will qualify for their "conquest" rebate ($1000), which is specifically for non-GM brand vehicle owners. I know it stinks, but these are the rules. This is one of those things: you see "eye-catcher" ad in paper with some really low price, but in fine print it includes militar discount, graduate discount or something like that. I think it is disingenous of them doing so, but unfortunately we need to read the fine print before getting too excited.
4. Idea of employee pricing is no further negotiations and discounts except those provided by the manufacturer (APR or rebates). However, in some very competitive markets you may get even lower offers than that. But if you live in a small town with one dealer, forget it - that's the best you can get. Otherwise, you simply move on to the next stage of purchasing process, where negotiations are still in order (junk fees, junk options, F&I, trade etc.).
5. Your trade and GM point should come totally separately and have nothing to do with the price. It is just a form of payment.
So the answer is - yes, you lowballed big time
2018 430i Gran Coupe
All manufacturers that I'm aware of start their new car factory warranties at the odometer at delivery. If the car has a 36,000 mile warranty, this would be 6000 miles to 42,000 miles. You wouldn't be cheated out of that 6000 miles..... The warranty contract would also indicate this.
Most import warranties start at zero for mileage.. Start date varies by what program the car might be in.. (demo, service loaner, etc.)
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Voicemail today from salesman. "Good news, the FreeStyle is still here. (Like I was worried?) :confuse: Our trade offer stands, you won't get that deal at the other place". Called him. He said "You'll lose money if you don't trade it tonight". My response "Please shred my information, I won't be buying anything from you." Him "you're making a mistake". Me "goodbye".
I do like the part though when the dealer said the other dealer was lying to you.
If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black. :P
Don't forget the sales tax issue, in most states anyway. Here in Orlando, trading in a car worth $15K, I'd have to sell it for $16K to break even.
I have to say that shopping for a car has been an eye opening, time wasting, unpleasant experience.
I'm sure you and your brethren would not have accepted an additional 5K if the advertisement had erred in the other direction. i.e. A customer offered 5K in excess of the intended sales price due to a 'misprint?' Steve
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Yeah, I sympathize. I used to be a nice person and it made it hard to deal with people who were not nice. I learned my lesson.
"I have to say that shopping for a car has been an eye opening, time wasting, unpleasant experience."
If you learn from the experience, shopping for a car will be very pleasant in the future. Good luck.
Back on topic.....it never ceases to amaze me how many people still think they can get something for nothing (or little). In the auto dealer world, they run screamer ads in the big Saturday auto section of the newspaper touting their base model with no/few options at a low, low price. They know full well this will get butts into the showroom. Customer shows up, finding that the "base model" in the ad isn't what they had in mind and are more interested in that "tarted up" model for more money. While I'm certain there are some unscupulous dealers out there who perhaps puposely "misprint" their pricing ads based on this, I'd bet a dollar to a dime that the people this draws in are one of those who "Think" they've caught the dealer in a compromising position and try to "stick it to them".
Truth is, if any car is priced "too good to be true", then as the old saying goes, it probably is. Same with that trade-in. You can Maaco it. But, that's still not going to disguise the engine that has more misses than my golf swing.
I just relate this to my own business where we unwittingly make a pricing or description mistake. I'll appologize profusely for the error to the customer, but can't really stay in business if we had to "honor" the mistake. That's why we always use a disclaimer that we can't be held repsonsible for these errors. Sometimes it's a proof reading error. Sometimes it's the error on the side of the person in charge of marketing. Either way, humans make mistakes (except for me, of course).
Funny....the bigger the error, the more vehement the customer is to get someone to honor it.....even though the error is obvious.
If cooler heads prevail, I would think some concession on the dealer's end would/should alleviate most of the ill-will generated by these types of mistakes. With any customer complaint, regardless of the issue, communication is key, however. I've always found that bad news delivered with humbleness always saves the day (or the sale). Then again, I know some people will never be satisfied.
No, we wouldn't have done that.
Years ago I was shopping for a mini-van looking at the Mazda. Knowing that there was a $3500 rebate I played dumb for awhile with the price, asking about rebates, etc. to see how honest they were. Only when I told him "you know I really think there's a big rebate, can you check again". He came back with a $2K rebate. I then 'nicely" told him to check again and he came back apologizing for the "mistake" and told me about the $3500 rebate.
When I bought my 2004 Mazda MPV minivan the $3,000 rebate had technically expired the week before. I asked the sales manager if I could still get the rebate. I could almost see the wheels spinning in his head ...he seemed reluctant before finally saying yes. The next week Mazda came out with the $3,500 rebate. I've always been curious as to what the sales manager was thinking. i.e "see if you can get him to buy without a rebate,go ahead and let him have the $3,000 rebate... or be a nice guy and tell him there will be a $3,500 rebate next week."
I'm sure he knew about the upcoming rebate. So, if he tells me to put a deposit down and come back next week...I take $300 of the $500 in extra rebate, and give him the remaining $200, it would have been benefical for us both. But, on the other hand he was probably afraid I may not have come back. Or, that I would want all of the $500 in extra rebates.
"he was probably afraid ..."
Maybe you spend too much time trying to figure out what other people are thinking. That's hard to do.
Someone experienced correct me if I'm mistaken.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Screaming "YOU PAY .... " with fine print $2500 trade or cash at the bottom. Sometimes even worse: just a row of numbers: like MSRP, discount, trade, "YOU PAY" . So, those $2,500 in trade or cash are paid by Santa Claus, right? Oh, no, it is dwarfs, I forgot...
Not to mention that even if the price is accurate, it is still not what "you pay", because of taxes, registr and fees. Perhaps "we get" (receive) would work... No, I forgot - "fees". Those oficially looking and preprinted $399, $499, or $599 "preparation", "documentation", "clerical", "delivery" (read "boat payment", "Hawaii trip surcharge", "My next bonus". So, what do we say?
How about puting your real price with all the "fees"? Ahhh, forgot, life would be to boring, isn't right bobst? That's what we all are living for (and need) - losing more time trying to figure out, how much it is REALLY going to cost us.
Life is so hard for those poor guys with large gold bracelets on their wrists, so why make it simple for others? No reason, none at all. Moreover, the customer would not have any more "opportunity" to drop another grand or two, not even knowing it...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Regardless, as someone else pointed out, there is absolutely no dealer benefit to offering you last month's rebate versus next month's rebate. It's not money in his pocket --- the pass that money on to you. They disclose the rebate amount on the bill of sale, so that amount is clearly disclosed to you. Whether that amount is $3000 or $3500, it just comes off the bottom line, which you, not the the dealer, is paying for. His profit remains the same.
But, anyhow Kirstie. I scoured the Edmunds new car pricing and incentives for the MPV days before and the day of purchase. There was never any indication as to any customer cash back incentives or rebates. If not posted anywhere... maybe the dealer, at his own discretion, can offer any amount in customer cash that he feels is necessary to close the deal? That would work pretty much like dealer cash back.
BUT, since the customer cash back was not announced or posted. It would benefit the dealership by not telling me about the customer cash back. If they could make the sale without offering the cash back...it would improve their total sales number by $3,000. :confuse:
It is strange though - usually manufacturers are very loud to advertise customer incentives as a way to get people to the showrooms. I am guessing here that some are giving their dealers a leverage instead: if customer is not informed well, they could "offer" him lower rebate and pocket the difference (when the box assign to dealer is checked).
From what I saw and heard, it looks to me that the domestics now big on advertising those rebates leave no room for dealers to pocket that money, but I also have seen numerous Toyota, Honda commercials with those tiny fineprints saying "price advertised assumes all rebated assigned to the dealer". I also remember one Pontiac dealer telling me that the cashback would be applied after tax, same way as many manufacturers' coupons work at stores. It just seems it varies from make to make. One thing I noticed for sure: Toyota's, Honda's and Nissan's dealers have by far the worst reputation as far as the purchasing process goes. No wonder: lowest nominal profit margins, superior product, quite high demand. I remember reading once Consumer Report about the purchasing experience and top was Saturn, then luxury brands, the domestic non-luxuries, and Toyota, Honda, Nissan at the very bottom.
Perhaps some insider could tell us how it really works.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It is almost impossible to prove bait and switch...the dealer can always come up with some nonsensical excuse. How could one prove they are lying?
Call the GM and tell him why you are taking your business elsewhere ..then do it.
Unfortunately, just about all dealerships pull that tricky stuff.
Always better to find a car that is on the lot that is available for immediate sale, then one can avoid a lot of problems.
I also discovered that the window sticker they sent me originally was for a car that didn't exist. I believe that if I have to I can show a real intent to defraud. I just want my car.
And you think the GM really cares? He's (or she) is probably the one teaching the tricks. I wouldn't waste my precious time with a dealer like that.
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If you want to make it a personal vendeta against the dealer, then by all means, have at it. But be ready to spend lots of time and money.
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And no I'm not in the car biz.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Usually I don't have much sympathy for car buyers who whine about dealer's antics, but it sounds like this dealer has crossed the line. I hope you contact the attorney general in your state and they prosecute this dealer.
"I just want my car."
Not from this dealer you don't.
Sounds like a dealer trade ... they had to go after the vehicle, right..?
Terry.
They had to go get it. I have an e-mail where the sales manager states that the dealership that has the car told them they can have it
Latest- The sticker for the original car (that they said was no longer available) has a VIN number with no record in Carfax. It appears to be a made up number.
FYI: Newer models won't have a record in Carfax.... It takes a while. Especially if the car is new and has not been retailed. Of course there won't be any records, because the car hasn't been registered with the state! Go to any new car lot and put one of the VINs in Carfax and you'll see what I mean.....
It worked for a dealership near our area which catered to ripping off lower income buyers with less shrewd ability than most here have. They were "bought" by a dealership on the other side of town who closed it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's what I'm doing when I order a Charger next weekend. The wife and I visited our Dodge dealer, and walked up to the fleet manager just to introduce ourselves. The guy built our car and gave me the paper to take home. There was no bickering and the numbers match Edmunds.
You put down a deposit, don't trade in a car, and get your own financing, which means the only price you are worrying about is the car itself. After you order the car, then you can work with the finance department to see what they offer, and sign up with online loan companies. The car comes 10 weeks later, you write a check for your down payment, use a credit card for 3k of it if you want, and have your loan check with you to pay the rest. The dealer verifies your check is good, calls the loan company to verify their check, sign a few papers, and you get the keys.
What if the fleet manager asks "how many cars would you need for your fleet?"
They had to go get it. I have an e-mail where the sales manager states that the dealership that has the car told them they can have it
When I read your story I, too, was thinking it was a dealer trade. Sounds to me like the dealer with the car was able to sell it themselves, so your dealer was out of luck and tried to salvage the deal by trying to move you to an '06. Dealer trades are definitely not guarantees - I speak from experience. This is not a situation for attorneys, the BBB, the Air Force National Guard, Marines, Jeffrey Figer, etc. It's simply a deal that fell through because the dealer couldn't get the car you wanted. No offense, but big whoop - find another Focus and move on.