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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
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What car is it ....?
Terry.
But, I suppose some dealers do this. When they can't find the exact car, they will try to switch the customer to a different model or color.
And, when I refund a deposit. it happens immediatly.
This situation is REALLY bad this time of the year. Inventories of popular models are down to nothing. What I wouldn't give for 100 Odysseys to get dropped off tomorrow!
7 weeks passed.
The dealer now comes up with car that is $500 more expensive than what was agreed on.
Doesn't this deal just about fit the title of this group '...Bait and Switch'?
How can any of you justify cutting this dealer any slack on this??????
i would think locating a vehicle has some "performance period" associated with it, i.e. "you give me the deposit and we will locate the vehicle not only the color, and options you wanted, but also in a timely manner".
there's nothing timely in a 7week performance period.
either the guy can find you the car in a day or two or he can't. the salesperson should have been able to call you back within that period indicating what was out there that could be obtained.
personally, i wouldn't have waited more than 2 or 3 days before asking for my deposit back. 7 weeks - sounds like the car was built from scratch, i.e. ordered.
$500? on the one hand, I would think the dealership should eat that cost and apologize for stringing someone along. on the other hand, i can't see why anyone would wait that long and not think there's something odd going on.
We went to a dealer looking for a Kia Sportage EX. The dealer did not have the color we wanted but told us that he gets different cars every 1-2 weeks and that it would not be a problem finding a car of the right color. We agreed on a price and we put down a deposit. We even gave him a choice of 3 different colors to be flexible.
Between then and now the following occurred:
Week 1 - He located a car of the right color but different model. We decided not to take it and he told us that he would locate another one and to give him a call in 1-2 weeks. This seemed reasonable.
Week 3 - He tells us that he located a few cars and that he would know the delivery date when he would get an invoice.
Week 4 - He tells us he has an invoice and that he should have a car we want in 1-2 weeks. At this point we are irritated by the delays but we do not think they are necessarily his fault or that he is being dishonest.
Week 5 - He tells us the VIN number of the car of the correct model and color. He also tells us that delivery should be in 7-10 days. At this point only does he tell us that there are some optionals that make the car about $500 more expensive. We tell him how we do not want to pay more money than we agreed. He proceeds to lecture us on how he never gave us a time guarantee and that he told us from the start that it would be impossible to find a car exactly the way we want it (not true). We start asking for our money back and he tells us to at least look at the car before we make a final decision. We agree.
Week 7 - The car arrives and we go to see it. We really like the car and although we are not happy about rewarding this guy's tactics we decide to follow the advice of one of the posters and offer to split the price difference. The dealer agrees to give us a discount ( about $200) and we agree to purchase the car. We cannot pick up the car until next week because of some plans we made a while ago(long before we were given a delivery date). He seems to mind a little but agrees to wait and offers us a new contract. We look at the contract and we ask that he write down the monthly payments. He tells us that he does not know what they are, and that he cannot find out then and there because he has other customers, but they are only going to be slightly higher than what we agreed on the cheaper model. He tells us to sign the contract to get the process started and that we would take care of the details next week. We refuse to sign without everything on paper. He becomes very angry and tells us to take it or leave it. At this point we are worried that he may give us an unfavorable interest rate after we sign. We tell him that we will leave it unless he puts everything on paper. He then agrees to work everything out next week when we come back.
We'll see what happens.
(by default because I was a dummy and co-signed the loan for it and my
stepsister walked away from it after 8 months of problems and I was stuck
with it AND the payments)..........
RUN...DO NOT WALK....away from that vehicle...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very problematic and not worth pennies on the dollar after you take it
off the dealers lot................
The 10 year warranty isn't worth the paper its printed on !!!!!!!!!!!
I am sure the car guys will agree with me on this one................... :sick:
a "Kia" ...............................................?
Do you have a head injury ............?
Oh my gawd.! .... a Kia ........?
"Now" .. I've heard it all ....l...o...l..........
Terry.
The salesman tries to get you to sign a blank contract!
Run Away !
Run Away !
I originally recommended that you split the difference with them. I would like to change that and recommend that you find a different dealer. I will not fault anybody's decision on what make or model that they drive. Buy and drive what you like. Just do it from a dealer that will be a little more honest with you.
first off, i work for a nissan dealer (well, until tomorrow - thats my last day here) and locating a car takes us anywhere from 3-5 business days if there is one available, and we can get it here. if we cant get it, or have problems finding what you are looking for - WE CALL YOU. we don't wait 7 weeks...that just seems absurd.
now, if he kept you in the loop the whole time - letting you know what he was working on, why it was taking so long, that the availability was very slim, then you gotta give the guy some credit - but if he took weeks between contacts, i would get very frustrated myself.
as far as the price issue - these things DO happen. he probably couldnt find one for you with the exact equipment, and that was the closest he could get, OR there was a price increase and while its the same vehicle, kia decided to raise the base price. he should have asked you about it before getting you the vehicle however. if there is ever a deviation from what the consumer wants, you should always check with them first about mileage, color, equipment, etc before bringing in a vehicle.
anyways, you were right not to sign a blank contract - it doesn't take long to put numbers in there...they should just do it and be done with it...
anyways, good luck!
-thene
I just want to say this again...you sound like a great person and I've enjoyed your posts. You have a fresh approach and I've never seen you get grumpy or respond to anyone in a less than positive manner.
Whatever you do, I wish you good fortune!
Craig
i can get plenty grumpy, and did while i was selling cars, if i had a particularly frustrating customer (not to them of course, but afterwards) but i see the edmunds forums as a way to tell people how the best way to buy a car really is, according to my experience. based on the people who bought cars from me who DID have a great experience. everyone buys differently, and everyone thinks a great deal is different (as we have found on these message boards) so you do what you have to do, but the majority of the people just want a fair price, a good experience, and a great relationship with the people at the dealership afterwards (and most people don't think much about that, but i would do anything i could to help out any customers if they came back to me for anything)
anyways, thanks for the well wishes - im off to find something in graphic design (what i really want to do) - hopefully i find someone who is willing to let me get my foot in the door and get the experience every other graphics position requires!
-thene
Hey, thene...
.
.
.
Whatever you do, I wish you good fortune!
Oh, hey... I hadn't thought just because you no longer worked in cars you'd bail on Edmunds... Would you?
O.K. With me around nobody'd blame you, so I guess I'd better echo everyone's sentiments while I can: You've been a thoughtful, consistent, level headed poster, and I've definitely paid attention when your name popped up on the right hand column. If graphics truly is an either/or proposition, best of luck and thanks a million.
-Greg
i still think, even being on the consumers side once again, that people over think the process because they are TOO afraid of getting screwed. be educated, be aware of what most people are getting the car for, and if you get something close, be happy and move on. i dont think there's a need to spend hours and days and weeks shopping from here to timbucktu for a deal...but thats just me
anyways, thanks for all the kind words! you'll still see me around, doing what i can to help!
-thene :-)
what i dont understand is the people who live in fear of someone getting a better deal than they did....again, thats just me!
-thene
it's sort of like going to an open market. the price on the item is not necessarily what the cost to take the item with you will be. sometimes people have great anxiety buying because there are many shops with many wonderful things, and unless they've visited a number of the stands, they may feel a purchase is premature, even though they like the item. another point of anxiety may be they are not used to dickering on the price marked on the item, and they feel they need to educate themselves more on the going rate for a class of items before returning to discuss an offer.
some people are really good at purchasing this way, but i suspect, most of us are not.
the differences between an open market experience and purchasing a vehicle at a dealership (and this isn't meant to be exhaustive) is that in general, the actual price (out the door) will be that marked on an item or less (but NOT more). also, another difference is open markets don't generally have people working you to make a purchase. also - in an open market, you might actually be dealing with the person that made or used the item and can tell you something very personal about it. finally, open markets differ in that you're generally not dealing with many 10s of thousands of dollars!
Just had a bad experience with a dealership in Naperville, IL. I found a Honda Pilot listed at $17,880 on Autotrader.com. My wife called and confirmed both price and availability. She then drove 45 miles to go check it out, and the salesman confirmed the price. She had our current car inspected as a trade-in and had to sign something regarding the trade in, but which had the stated price of $17,880 for the Pilot.
Long story short, I drove out to the dealership later that day and the sales manager said that the price was a mistake that would be fixed in the next 24 hours. They would not honor the advertised price.
I understand that some mistake is possible in the listing price (that's a low price), but that's not my fault. I went there to buy an advertised $17,880 truck and was denied. Bait and switch?
Thoughts? Should I fight for that price?
(BTW - the truck is now listed at over $21000, but I have a printout of the original $17,880 Autotrader ad)
Edmunds Price Checker
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Edmunds Moderator
Because of our large used car inventory we actually get the advertising people from the automotive publications come here, take pictures and note whatever price is in the window. In this case they made a mistake writing the price down.
The customers actually drove from out of town, to buy the car and thought we did a switcheroo once they saw the price on the car because it was about $5000 higher than advertised.
To make a long story short after we confirmed the price mistake was the advertisers fault we did a good deed, sold them the car at the advertsied price. I am not sure if the manager went after the advertiser for the loss.
It is up to the dealership what they will do for you. I mean it's their product and if they would like to be nice they can sell it to you at the advertised price. But if the mistake was made they can alos opt not to sell you the car at that price. It's still in their hands and you haven't paid for it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
It all seems rather sleazy and illegal to me.
(as for the other comment about spam...Gosh, two posts. Handcuff me now for being a spammer. Forgive me for trying to find some advice from a couple of different sources. I have had mixed results in these forums getting answers or advice in a timely manner [a week or so]. I thought I'd increase my chances by trying two different catagories. I sincerely apologize for my two posts having offended you. I promise never to do it again.)
Sorry to jump on you... I just got them back-to-back, and thought I was going to see them all over....
Carry on!!
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
A sloppy dealer or advdrtising company made a mistake...a HUGE mistake!
If you called to "confirm" this, whoever took your call should be fired.
But, I do have to ask...did you REALLY think you could buy that Pilot for THOUSANDS less than the prevailing market?
Didn't you suspect something was amiss?
And, yeah...trying to make up for that loss by undervaluing your trade was, indeed sleazy. In my not so humble opinion, I think they should have offered you a substancial discount but I don't think they should be expected to eat 5000.00 or whatever because of a mistake.
The dealer should be held accountable, more for confirming the price than anything.
Becaause the last thing I want is out of town folks driving down and being mad at us over something that may not be our fault.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Anyway, that's the way it goes. Until the deal is finalized, nothing is carved in stone.
If a $75 shirt is mismarked as $10, you have to sell it to me for $10. How is this any different?
By the time I left, the manager and salesman had both told me that they lost $ on the deal. I replied "Good, because you made too much on my dad last time." :shades: That printout saved me $5K!
Mistakes happen. But you can't MAKE anyone sell you anything. Unless there's different laws in your state or province.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
So, is it a wonder that these "mistakes" happen all the time? Dealers sell vehicles all the time with this lie that is impossible for the consumer to prove.
How often do you think these "mistakes" would occur if the dealers or printers were held accountable?
From my experience buying cars, I have learned to never believe anything a sales person tells me. I think you are justified to draw the same conclusion.
So you didn't like their attitude. As you get older, you will hopefully learn to not base your happiness on the attitude people have towards you.
But I do know there's 3 parts of a contract: offer, acceptance, and consideration.
Offer - Autotrader ad and dealer confirmation. I'm sure in the ad, there's fine print that says something like "not responsibile for mistakes", but dealer confirmation would make this hard to back out of.
Acceptance - Buyer saying I'll buy it.
Consideration - What each party gets. Dealer gets cash, buyer gets vehicle.
Done deal, the contract is enforceable in a court of law. Damages would be the difficult part to prove. But I've gotta believe it would be several $K based on the original post.
How about we stop the drama class for just a few minutes ........
Dealers just don't drop bad ad's in to get Mr and Mrs Coma in the store, just to sell that lost leader that usually costs the dealer $400/$500 .....
Depending on the area and the size, most dealers spend anywhere from $15,000/$45,000 a month on advertising .. thats a ton of ad's my friend, and most times they have an Ad person from the paper and someone from the store that "proofs" the ad's, some make it and some don't because of the cut-off period, plus the dealer isn't going to hold up a sale because a certain car is in the paper "correctly or incorrectly" ....
That said ... it's a business, not the YMCA and mistakes are made by both .. the difference being is, the YMCA can give free swimming lessons, thats because they're a "non-profit" organization ...... thats why Dilliards, Burdines, Home Depot, Best Buys and Home Builders have those little itty bitty disclaimers at the bottom ...
Look at the Sunday paper tomorrow and look at all the builders homes for sale ... "This can be yours for only $359,000" ---- right, by the time they peel off the cheap tile and put the good stuff in, put the solid core doors in, yank out that lousy 2 1/2 ton air conditioner and drop in the two 3 1/2 ton dual zone coolers, take out those hinky fiberboard kitchen cabinets and put in the 42 inch oaks, install the fat daddy carpeting, put in more than 2 electrical plugs in each room, install the "real" bathroom cabinets and sinks with some real marble or Corium tops and then drop the outside lighting in with the landscaping .. you're looking at $450,000+ ...... what happened to the $359,000 house..? ...l..o..l.....
Like my Great Grand Daddy used to say:
Always read the SMALL print .. this way you don't make BIG mistakes .!
Terry
and as for the home, in my experience, you can purchase the home for less than the advertised price.
the difference here is the dealership doesn't have to honor the advertised price (even if reasonable), and it seems to the purchasing public, they often don't.
not true in these other industries.
When I arrived at the dealership the salesman asked what options I was looking for. I responded "whatever options the ad truck has." Then he asked what color and I stated the same thing. Once he discovered I was budging from the ad truck he brought his manager out who said it was a pricing mistake.
I advised him that the ad was confirmed twice over the phone - including by his manager. The sales manager refused to sell it so I left my card & advised him to call me by Monday (it was Sat) if he wanted to avoid complaints to the BBB, FTC an AG. Monday I received a call from the owner and purchased the truck at the listed price.
http://www.pontiac.com/ws/nvlWindowSticker.pg?makeId=002&year=2005&modelId=85&postalCode=3- 0269&pvc=240&mmc=2SL26&VIN=5Y2SL638X5Z479227&GMS=junebug&isGMFF=true&isbp=true&originating- Brand=DIVISIONAL
They told me about the employee pricing (alas, forgot the amount).. when I pressed them with offers from other dealers, they offered $1000 rebate and $1000 because I own a chevy.
now I went, shopped around... did my research.
info on it from the sites...
Kelly blue book site:
New Car Blue Book Value $19718 , Invoice $20327 , MSRP $20905
(that is with only one $1000 rebate plugged in, other wasnt offered.. and the emplyee pricing selection seemd to make no adjustment..
from Edmunds site: TMV $19,134 Invoice $20,106, MSRP $21,655
(that is without any rebates applied on the edmiunds site. QUESTION - do i take the TMV and then figure in the empoloyee pricing rebate and other rebates??
Okay... so on the pontiac site I clicked the link for employee pricing and got $18,779.05 ....I figured I now take my $2000 from the 2 rebates off, getting 16,779. I called them and my offer to them was 16,500 walking out the door, (they take a little more off and cover any taxes/fees) QUESTION - is that a good offer, did I lowballl to much? I would then apply my GM card points of $2156, trade in my car with a shot transmission ($500?) and put $800 down.
Okay so they call me back and say they are about 3 thousand away from my price. this raises a few questions I wanted to ask you guys.
1st - they said their employee pricing ended up with a price a thousand higher than the employee discount the pontiac site gave me. they said that was because the website was already taking into account the additional 1000 rebate.
Thats a red flag to me that there are 2 different emplyee pricing calculations.QUESTION - is what they are saying true?
Second, thye said that taxes would be calculated before the rebates are applied. Question - is this true? is it was for them to pocket more coin.. or just the laws of the land?
end result - they said walking out the door, before figurin in my trade and GM card, would be 19,000+.... is that a good deal? its close to what the edmunds/KBB sites suggested, but I dont know if their prices are before or after applicable rebates..
thanks for the read and the replies guys... trying to be smart on this purchase, and have to stay within a certain budget to make it work.
- Christopher
So I need to have dealerships fax me contracts listing their prices before I go out and see a car? Please. Give me your advice on how I am to evaluate cars before I go see them if I can't trust an ad and a confirmation of said price by a representative of the dealership? On second thought, please don't.
Also, my happiness is not based on others' attitudes towards me (and thank you for being so condescending). However, when others attempt to take advantage of me or, in this case, blatantly lie to me, I tend to become unhappy and seek justice. As an obviously older person, I would have hoped that you had learned to stand up for yourself by now.
For Terry
You really lost me with most of your post. I don't care what dealerships spend on advertising. That's their choice and is a cost of doing business. And remember, we're not talking about a newspaper here (with deadlines and such), we're talking about a post to the internet that their "internet specialist" made.
As for the house example, you could still buy that original house (with its crappy materials) for the advertised price. You'd only pay extra if you wanted more than what was listed. I wanted the truck exactly as advertised.
The moral I guess is to never trust what anyone says or anything you read, ever.
Sorry, send me your address and I'll send you a compass ...... there is nothing *special* about an "internet specialist", they make mistakes everyday, just spend a little time on TGW.com ..l.o.l... or if you looked at last weeks Dillards sale is was over on Saturday, even though in our area the store said it was going on until this Wednesday, and no they wouldn't give the extra 30% off ......
Whats being said is .. no matter what you're looking for, clothes, golf clubs or particle board houses you need to check the market ... most times when the price is too low, there's a reason for it ..... fraud..? not even close ...
Terry.
If it's a drama class I am in, then you the car salesmen must be the instructor.
I think dealers "drop ads" all the time. Yes, the printer is not responsible.But, do you think the "ad person" is going to call the dealership and tell the dealer he has a vehicle at a price that is $300 under invoice and does he want to change it?
From my experience the dealership will say or print anything they can get away with to get someone in their store. I agree with bobst. Do not believe what a saleman says... and do not believe an advertised price.
On cut off periods...works to dealers advantage big time. Throw in some advertised specials for SUPER LOW prices. When customer calls the dealership says they didn't have time to pull it. Or, that low ball price that's been in the paper 3 weeks? Well, that ad runs for 6 weeks and by unfortunate circumstances the vehicle was sold the day before the ad came out. I believe the vast majority of dealer "mistakes" to be intentional. So, yes...do as your great grandpappy said and read the small print...but also be careful and read between the lines.
A Ford dealer that really annoyed me was one who swore up and down that a Freestyle was 'new', even though it had 6,000 miles on it. My finance company states in their paperwork they would not finance anything 'new' with over 4,000.
I normally ignore the loss leaders in the paper. Keeps my blood pressure down and I don't waste time and gas looking for that mythical bargain.
I believe according to the dealer's definition of "new" that it is in fact new. As long as it's a demo and has never been titled, the warranty period hasn't offically started even though you would lose 6K miles of the warranty.
I agree though that as far as I'm concerned, it is used.
Where did they drive it that it got that much mileage?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think the salespeople, managers & dealer employees took it on vacation. It had the DVD package in it. Of course, that was the dealer who told me I'd need AWD since the Freestyle was crap in the snow. :surprise: I never did go to their showroom. The salesman on the phone was enough to make me run away....