In response to #49: actual s4 tests yield 5.5 to 5.6 sec 0-60 times. Peak torque at 1850 rpm is at least part of the answer to the "how can it accelerate so fast" question. You are far from the first to ask the actual HP question. Only a dyno will tell. I presently drive an M3 and have driven the S4 twice. I feel the S4 is a superior car for spirited everyday driving. The M3 may be more fun 3 days a year but the roads where I live are about as far from the track as you can get. In the world of ruts, potholes, and expansion joints that I live in the S4 excels. I can't say for sure until I've had the S4 on the track which I prefer there. The M3 has a go-cart personality that is definitely absent in the S4. The weight issue is not an apples to apples comparison. Compare the S4's weight to the new, comparably loaded 328i's and you will find only a 100 lb. discrepancy. Don't forget that a base M3(400 lbs. lighter) is equipped more like racing car than a luxury car. Manual seats, no folding rear seat, no glass sun roof, no keyless entry, etc. AWD more than makes up for the other 100 lbs. Y rated 225's were probably a ride quality decision. Euro S4's have Z-rated p zero's from what I've read.
Curb weight on the new 328's is about 3250 lbs. The S4 is listed in Car and Driver as 3620 lbs. Seems like I saw this 3600 lbs somewhere else though I could not find the weight at A4.org or the Audi site. Anyway, unless it's a error, there is almost 400 lb gap between 328 and S4 which would not be narrowed appreciably by any of the BMW options(manual). I made an earlier post that it seemed like an error since the S4 weighs 220 lbs more than the 3380 lb for the A4 quattro.
I have been waiting for the S4 to be available... since I have been a Audi/VW fan for a while.
I currently have a '94 325i that I have had a few Dinan things done to is: Level 3 suspension, chip, cold air intake & throttle body. My car has apros 220 hp & 215 fl/lbs of torque... and drives harder and edgier than an M3
The new S4 is a VERY torqueie car off the line! Press the throttle and instantly the car lunges ahead... much like a V8 Mustang. My 325 (with the Dinan cold air ram) waits about a 1/4 second to gulp some air before the power comes on off the line. I felt the Audi's shifter was a bit vague...
but it was the Quattro that really impressed me. I took a downward sweeping off ramp at 70... and I could feel power shifting to keep the car on track. The stock tires are better left for winter use... this car could really use some Pole Positions!
I am currently trying to decide if I should take the plunge and sell my modified BMW and try the Audi....
1) although I feel the S4 is fast off the line, it is not as fast as I would like. I have emailed some tuners to see how fast this car could be EASILY made... if I can get 300 hp (chip +50 hp) for $500... and 350 hp (intake & exhaust +50 more) for another $1500 THAT would be a KILLER deal for a 350 hp car. to do the same with a 2000 m3 would take $8,000 for a supercharger... and a 340 hp 2002 M3 will cost $50,000 out of the box...
2) almost everything else about the car: interior styling; hip, trendy outside look, is excellent. Breaks are good. Suspension has a bit too much roll, but sport springs & roll bars should solve that. The interior leather is VERY nice.
3) I HATE limited availability cars... probably why I bought the BMW instead of a 240 hp Cobra Mustang in '94... one thing I don't need in my life is attitude from an Audi dealer!
I was searching on A4.org. Look at this post (link down below) by someone who was at a track. I think he works at a dealer. But then again he could be lying.
My brother has an M3 and I love how fast it is, so I've been looking for a dealer who has one, otherwise it looks like a long wait
I was searching on A4.org. Look at this post (link down below) by someone who was at a track. I think he works at a dealer. But then again he could be lying.
My brother has an M3 and I love how fast it is, so I've been looking for a dealer who has one, otherwise it looks like a long wait
Has anyone received lease prices on an S4? I received a quote from a dealer on Friday and it seems extremely high. For a 3yr lease($41K) with no down payment, $25K one time pre-payment or $744/month for 36 months. (Both leases were 15K miles per year). The dealer explained that the car has a low residual value after three years. The cars appear to be readily available (several in stock), but that is simply more than I care to spend for three years usage of a vehicle.
Has anyone received lease prices on an S4? I received a quote from a dealer on Friday and it seems extremely high. For a 3yr lease($41K) with no down payment, $25K one time pre-payment or $744/month for 36 months. (Both leases were 15K miles per year). The dealer explained that the car has a low residual value after three years. The cars appear to be readily available (several in stock), but that is simply more than I care to spend for three years usage of a vehicle.
I was looking wondering how this car compared to other "sports sedans". Has anyone ever compared the S4 to the Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 or the Subaru Legacy B4. All 3 have AWD and twin-turbos but I think the Subaru is a 4 cylinder.
trichmond--check out the auto site at aol and you will find info on how to price out a lease.with this info the dealer cannot play any hanky panky with you on the numbers. he does not determine the residule value. it is factory set.(in % based on years and milage) i just took a 2 year lease on the fully equipped s4. i paid sales tax and all fees up front(not a down payment) so the lease was based on just the net numbers with no extras. my payment is $793.00 per month based on a sale price $1000.00 off the man. list. (i can't remember the exact figure). a 3 year lease was about $643.00. my figures using the aol formula came within a few dollars of the dealers computer. good luck, richard w.
I recently purchased an S4 in Germany and love the overall performance. I may not by an auto-techno-nerd, but I know how this car performs. I found it interesting while reading through all the letters that the chip upgrades did not mention the end result. I've talked with the folks at the AUDI dealership over here and they said ABT in California can do an upgrade with only a chip, boosting hp to 310. On that note a friend who test drove an S4 in Germany ran against a M3 and took him on the autobahn. Obviously, with the "chip" the S4 can handle most cars on the autobahn. I talked with a gentleman living here who "chipped" his 98 A6. He has since pushed his car past the 160mph mark. I believe I can go beyond the 170mph with the chip. At the moment I'm waiting on info coming back from ABT in CA. The cost to upgrade an A6 was $450-500. Not sure if this price is consistent with the S4. Also, no mention of the S6, which is essentially the same engine, and only comes in the avant(wagon) body style. The tires on the S4 are "Y" rated at 186mph, plenty even after the upgrade. As an American living and working in Germany, I paid no tax on the car, and got out the door for 39,600. Only two things I did not get were the NAV system and the mobile phone, (I'm not that important). Now that I've said my piece, I have a question concerning fuel. My owners manual reads the lowest RON rated fuel I should use is 95. This is equivalent to super. In Germany the pumps use ROZ ratings. The ROZ rating on the super pump is 95. I'm only assuming RON = ROZ. Am I correct? Also I've been told that 3-4 years ago the Germans went to a super plus fuel. This fuel has special additives to accommodate cars with no catalytic converters. The super plus has a ROZ/RON of 98. If I use the 95 will I have less performance. I guess this is an issue of performance and octane, and if it matters what I use. The difference in price: $3.90 more per 100lts from super to super-plus. One final note: November issue of Playboy reviewed the SVT Mustang and rated a 5.3 0-60. With the chip the S4 rates a 5.0 0-62mph, quoted by ABT. Thought that was impressive.
Did you purchase a US spec S4? I am an Army doc and hopefully may be stationed at Landstuhl around 2001. I have heard that BMW gives better pricing for active duty, so a new M3 would be high on my list. How was dealing with AUDI AG and if US spec will they honor the US warrenty/maintance? How long did you have to wait for your S4?
Currently have an A4 2.8 quattro and love the car. Drove the S4 and wow. Only major complaints were short 1st gear ,long throws, and a little too much body role. Great car for around 40k.
My S4 is a US spec and I purchased it through military car sales in Heidelberg, better known as Auto Exchange. The car I own was supposed to hit their largest showroom as a demo to solicit orders for next year. I caught wind of this and held the car with a deposit. AUDI will honor the warranty, however, if you purchase the S4 in the states I've heard the coverage lasts longer. Extended coverage is an option. The first gear and long throws issues will fade quickly when you get behind the wheel on a permanent basis, trust me. People also need to remember when comparing the S4 to the M3 that the M3 is primarily a sports car, while the S4 is a sports/luxury sedan. Huge difference, unless your concerned only with speed.
RON is ROZ. Research Octane Number becomes "Research OktanZahl" or something like that in German, hence ROZ. However, 95 RON unleaded in Europe is 91 (R+M)/2 in the US. 98 RON probably would be equal to US 93.
The S4 (I have the same engine in my A6 2.7T) is tuned for 91 (RON+MON)/2 US or 95 RON, no matter what country you buy it in. Using 98 RON (or 93 here in the US) won't do anything extra for you.
The manual states for high performance, use 95 RON/91 AKI (R+M/2) or higher. It also states the car run on down to 91 RON/87 AKI without damage.
I presume this means the reduced grades you get at high altitudes (Denver), like 85 R+M/2 regular, 87 mid and 90 premium are okay as long as you stay at high altitudes?
The additives for non-catalytic cars don't do anything, the science behind them was bad it turns out. Here in California they are removing the additives.
The initial excitement on these additives (oxygenation) was generated by a study in Seattle (Washington, US) where they switched to oxygenated gas and it lowered smog 30% one winter. That summer many states (California) started requiring oxygenated gas in winter. Problem is the next winter when Seattle used the oxygenated gas again the smog was back up, and in fact significantly higher than it had been before they switched to oxygenated gas. So, the additives are unproven and falling out of favor.
The Subaru B4 is single turbo I believe, and definitely a 4 cylinder boxer engine. Really rips though.
The Mitsu 3000GT (or GTO outside US) is a twin turbo V6. Frankly, the AWD system on the GTO is lousy, it loses traction when you lose just one wheel, unlike Audi's system. Frankly, the whole car is lousy, it has survived almost unmodified since 1988, it's just plain out of date. I don't know why they haven't cancelled it. Also, it is very heavy and handles poorly. Still, the S4 isn't exactly light.
This is in response to someone's previous erronious statement that an S6 and an S4 share the same engine. The S6 due to arrive in late 2000/early 2001 shares its engine with the A8, the 4.2L V8 to be exact. In its manifestation in the S6, it will generate a bit more hp and lb/ft than its A8 counterpart.
I talked to my dealer and they said they do performance upgrades that are all covered by warenty. Anybody know any detailes? They said they have a black S4 that is lowerd and chipped with spoiler and exhaust. 900mi on the odo. and they want $40k for it. seems good but you know that those miles are not break in miles but hard ones. Any feedback?
If you get those performance upgrades, they are truly covered by the dealer, not Audi. So if you move, or go on a road trip you are back to square one.
So if the dealer chips the car and "bad" things happen then you have to deal with the dealer with no support from Audi? That could suck. But if they say they are going to stand by their product then...
I live in New England and I have been to a few local dealers. They all sell the S4 at MSRP. I've heard 36/12k lease for $650. On online site was way high on price, Most others were at sticker. Are there any deals out there?
I owned a '92 3000GT VR4 and agree that its main downside was its weight. 1999 was the last year for the 3000GT and the turbo Eclipses as well. With the Toyota Supra, Nissan 300ZX, and Mazda RX7 gone as well, the remaining choices were few unless one could move up into Porsche land. I opted for a 2000 'Vette 6-sp and am happy with it so far. I am considering the S4 as a replacement for my '95 BMW 540i 6-sp. It should be about as fast if the advertised tests can be believed.
I've put about 1200 miles on my S4 and its been flawless so far (knock on wood).
While it's no doubt as fast as a BMW 540i 6-spd you will have a little more wind and road noise.
I seriously considered a VR4 back in '91 but went with an Eclipse GSX and a Kawaski ZX11 instead, figuring I could beat most of the cars most of the time and ALL of those cars ALL of the time.
This turned out to be true to the chagrin of a certain ZR1-Vette owner who was dumb enough to challenge that (modded) bike at a stoplight. (okay, no fair comparing bikes to cars but it sure was fun to see the driver's stunned look when he asked me my 0-60 time at the next light and I told him 2.7 seconds!)
If you can live with the extra wind and road noise the S4 is a good choice, but your Vette will certainly be quicker (on dry roads).
The S4 is significantly faster than the 540i. My A6 2.7T as fast as the 540i, and the S4 is about a half-second faster than that (6.7ish seconds for 540i and A6 2.7T autos, 6.0ish for both sticks, 5.4 for an S4).
An S4 is a lousy replacement for a 5-series. It is far too small to compare. It is smaller than a 3-series (inside). Did you buy the 5-series for the size? If so, look at the A6 2.7T. It is similar performance to the 540i, but far cheaper. However, no sport suspension available yet (in the US), so it doesn't handle as well as a 540i (in fact, it may not handle as well once it gets the sport suspension). But it is quicker to 60, stops quicker, and holds the same load inside. AWD too.
I had my first drive of an S4 today and liked it a lot. It was sneaky fast and quietly competent. It didn't feel faster than my '95 540i (6-sp, 4.0L)for which at least one magazine had quoted a 0-60 time of 6.2 seconds. The newer 540s with the 4.4L V8 would certainly be faster than the S4 assuming a dry straight track. The 0-60 times on the S4 seem to be all over the map. The Audi brochure says 6.5 seconds (with the caveat of "preliminary data subject to change"), but I've seen magazines claim as low as 5.6 (about the same as a 4.4L 540). Audi literature on the A6 2.7T (6-sp)says 0-60 in 6.0 seconds. I doubt it could stay with a new 540 in terms of acceleration, but it does have a sticker price more than $10K less. I actually bought the 540i because it offered the option of a 6-sp and a V8. Obviously, the M3 is more appropriate as a comparison for size and cost. I just happen to own the 540, and if I can't stretch to the M5, I'm looking at alternatives.
mgreen1, the ZX11 will beat 99% of the cars out there 100% of the time but there are extreme car(s) that can whip (relatively speaking) the ZX11. Look at next months Car and Driver review of the BOSS Mustang. 0 - 60 in an astonishing 1.9 seconds!
I list the numbers mostly to pump up the S4. I would say that the 2.7T is clearly in the same class (acceleration-wise) as the 540i, but I'm not saying its faster. I am saying the S4 is faster. Still, factor in turbo lag, and the car is going to be somewhat less responsive.
For my $10K I saved, I can deal with that.
You could go the extra $10K and get the A6 4.2 which is virtually identical in accelleration to the 540i (and better in braking), but frankly it doesn't handle as well, so unless you see the AWD as an advantage (I do, many don't), just stick with the 540i.
You aren't going to see any 0-60 1.9s cars on the road, so you don't have to worry about racing them by mistake. Any car that can do that has to weigh so little that it would be clearly modified (one interior seat, no dash) and is very unlikely to be street legal.
bollinger, while I agree with your general sentiment, it is factually incorrect. The BOSS Mustang that I'm looking at in the January Car and Driver weighs 3,695 pounds which is by no means light. Further, not only does this thing appear to be street legal, aside from the garish paint job on the John Coletti car and the raised hood, the car looks quite normal compared to a Cobra Mustang (standard interior and all). Of course it has 855 hp at 6,200 rpm and 794 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm so it's not normal!
-rdo russell.ollie@erols.com
p.s. - I'll have to read the article for detail later I guess.
Bottom line, it's still a mustang no matter what you do to it. How many people want a Mustang over a better more luxurious car? Not I, but some might. To each his own but I can only imagine how much that car costs and I'd rather buy other cars in that price range not a mustang. Nonetheless, 1.9 sec 0-60 is a sweet time for a car.
Yeah, I saw the article yesterday, after finally finding a copy to buy (I have an A6 2.7T and it made the 10best).
I was surprise how stock both of those cars look. However, given that the article makes a point of how both of the two car owners won't give straight facts about their cars, I can't imagine the weights are correct. 855HP at 3,600lbs just shouldn't equal 1.9 to 60.
Still, my talk about you can look at the interior and see its modded is clready wrong, huh? I guess you'll have to look for super-wide rear tires.
Those two cars both look streetable, but I doubt they pass the less obvious tests required (volume, emissions).
Both of those cars are amazing, but the Mustang far more so.
I ordered an S4 from CarsDirect.com a month or so ago, and they're telling me I won't get it 'til mid-February 2000! My local (N. California) Audi dealership doesn't even have a demo. How many people out there actually have these now?
Finally, yesterday, the Audi dealership near me called to let me know they took delivery of their first S4 Tiptronic. I've been waiting to test drive the S4 in order to drive both manual and tiptronic, one right after the other, for comparative purposes.
The results: Manual KILLS the Tiptronic. Don't get me wrong, Tip was good, but you lose a lot. No question.
Two ways to change gears in the tiptronic- steering wheel, and via the center drive stick. Gears automatically change in Tip mode somewhere around 6300rpm...I guess to protect you from killing the tranny.
Highlights: This car asks for abuse, then asks for more. Unbelievable performance with the manual transmission. Believe everything you read about the performance on this machine.
Navigation system was really nice. Directions show up on the middle screen between the tach and the speedometer. Female voice navigates you. Cool touch.
Disappointments: I thought there would be more styling differences compared to the A4 beyond larger tires, front airdam, and tiny S4 badges. Don't get me wrong, I like the A4 styling, just expected more aggressivenes with the S4.
Very disappointed in the "premium" Bose stereo. Not crisp. My wifes Lexus ES300 sounds better, and my SC400 (Nakamichi) sounds much better.
HID headlights look good, but don't turn on and off automatically. I thought auto headlamps were pretty much a standard feature on perf/lux cars these days.
END RESULT - Performance is there, but I just can't get excited about the overall look of the car. If the styling were a little more aggressive that would put me over the edge. I fully expected, going into the test drive, to be placing my order before leaving. I'm holding off on buying one for now.
Placed an order a week ago through CarsDirect.com and they were able to find the car with the color and options I wanted at a SoCal dealer. Great service and they were even nice enough to deliver it to my home.
Looks like SoCal dealers have more of supply so those in NorCal looking for one should expand their searches down there or go through a broker like I did.
I couldn't even find a dealership here in the Bay Area that had any on their lots and plus they were charging ~$2500 over MSRP on the average. The wait for an ordered car would have taken 3-6 months in some cases.
I am sorry you ended up feeling that way about the S4, but it has been getting rave revues and has won the #1 title from the BMW M3 in more than one review. I can only speak from experience on owning a '00 A4, but I think the Bose is very good (better than my Nissan, which had a great Bose stereo). I also think the S4 is definitely more agressive looking than the A4, comparatively speaking, the M3 to the 318I, 323I, etc. I couldn't tell one of those from the other except for looking at the rear badges. I think there are more definitive differences between the A4 and S4, such as the lower stance, more agressive tires, and more agressive front grill and S4 badges, (just naming a few aesthetic differences).
Also, HID headlights are not a standard feature on most luxury cars. Many luxury cars do not have them, and if they do, they are an option (including, BMW). Personally, I have not heard of being able to turn on and off HID headlights. There are autoleveling headlights, and I have only heard of a few very high end cars that have this feature.
Apparently, you are really into the Lexus thing, so nothing about a premium performance sedan would get you going, so why don't you just wait for the Lexus IS sports sedan to come out. Sounds like it's more up your alley. That cushy, floaty Japanese feeling (I know I had a Camry, exactly like the Lexus ES 300, that's why I got rid of it!)
P.S. - If you want more aggressive looking, look no further than your Chevy showroom at the Camaro, or Ford, at the Mustang. American muscle cars will certainly attract the attention that you seem to be desiring!
The S4 winning the #1 title from the M3, would that happen to be the current M3 or the new M3? Also what title did it win? The new M3 is gonna be out of the S4's league unless aftermarket stuff is done to the S4, but also the new M3 is probably gonna cost more too.
bobsc400 - Auto headlights seem to be out of vogue now. If you mean the ones that detect darkness and turn on. If you mean ones that turn on and off with the ignition, yuck, I hate 'em.
uofmiami - Why do people (you) insist on putting cars up on a pedastal? No car is untouchable. Even when it is unlikely, any car be bested. As to the #1 title, as you mention, there is no real #1 title, but many car experts/magazines seem to think the S4 is as good or better than the M3. Of course, that is easier in a year where there is no M3. I think Audi was a bunch of geniuses to bring out the S4 when there is no M3. This gives this excellent car a head start it would otherwise have had more trouble getting.
Since when did I put a car up on the pedastal? I'm not a fan of either the S4 or the M3 so I personally could care less which one of them is #1, but that wasn't my point. My question was what are they #1 of? Best German car? Best pay a lot and get a little back? I never said any car is untouchable but the current S4 will need aftermarket mods to run with a new M3. If that comment makes a car untouchable then I think the world is coming to an end. Every car can be touched, all someone has to do is walk over to it and touch it (Little humor to lighten people up) Otherwise spend the $$ and one can make a car a lot faster to best another as you pointed out.
Why are you so bent on slamming me? Wait for the IS300, go to your Chevy showroom.... I put together an honest opinion of my test drive, both good points and disappointments. Are you some much of an ego-maniac that you can't believe another's point of view is of any value?
No need to put down Lexus, they deliver true luxury with more reliabilty than any other manufacturer, that's what some people want. My wife loves her ES300. I've simply graduated to a higher performance level than Lexus can deliver. I know a couple of other people who have SC400's and really love them. They just aren't real performance drivers.
The one thing I can't stand about my current car is that "floaty" drive you speak of, hence why I want to dump the SC400. After driving a friends 92 S4 (mod), anothers 96 M3, and yet anothers 99 Porsche, I long for feeling those cars deliver.
The Bose sound system in the S4 would probably be considered decent by many people. I'm not one of those people. I haven't heard a Bose system that I like yet. Wife's ES300 has a Bose system. Don't like it either, but better than the S4. My last car, Acura Legend, had Bose system comparable to the S4. Didn't like it. Again, just IMO.
As far as the styling goes, if the S4 would simply have a some "ground effects" differences, like thicker rockers, it would put me over the edge. Anyone out there know the aftermarket possiblilities for this? I'm familiar with the chip and exhaust upgrades, which are a no brainer, but I haven't seen anything for styling.
I'm pretty sure you misunderstood the disappointment with the headlights. I was referring specifically to the feature that turns on the lights on automatically if it's dark.
I test drove a '99 A4 2.8 Quattro for a whole weekend over the summer. I can understand why you like it. Great car, just not enough power for me.
I have the Bose System in my A6 2.7T (sister, slower, boatier car to the S4), and I had never heard any Bose System I liked before. Not in a home, car, boat, anything. Now I have. I was very surprised.
No, I don't love it, I could certainly do better if I set up my own stereo, but I am willing to live with a little worse sound to have a factory system. This is because the factory systems are better integrated and far less likely to get stolen.
I have to agree, the treble is still a little faulty. It's better than Bose past, and more along the lines of the super-bright Infinitys I am used to. The bass is excellent. The subwoofer does a good job, although when you turn up the bass level, it makes it apparent that most of it is coming from behind you. C'est la vie.
uofmiami - The statement I am talking about is the one of "the current S4 will need aftermarket mods to run with the new M3". The new M3 doesn't even exist yet, and you have relegated it to the back seat. Many other people said the same about the current M3, and are finding the two cars are neck-and-neck in many circumstances. Why don't you wait for an actual comparison (or even the existence of the new M3) before you crown a king?
This is so far back I probably shouldn't bother, but the Subaru B4 is indeed a twin-turbo apparently. It seems they started with one turbo, and switched to two to get better response. I don't know how many were made with one turbo, or if that was just during development.
Anyway, if you went and bought a 2000 model, it would be a twin-turbo on the 2.0L Boxer 4.
Actually it does exist at BMW's plant in Germany and has run 0-60 times of 4.8 sec in house. It was in Autoweek Magazine 2 months ago or so and Autoweek reported the engine would be tuned down some otherwise it would hurt M5 sales, don't know the exact issue, wish I did. I'm willing to wait for comparisons though, cause it'll be fun to see as a car enthusiast.
Bobsc400, Where and when did I slam you buddy? I don't know where that came from at all. I love Lexus and I drive one too so I don't know what you are talking about. Plus I have the headlights on my car set to go off when I shut the car off and on when I turn the car on, which Bollinger doesn't like I never directed any comments directly to you, check the posts above. If the SC400 doesn't deliver the performance you need, try a GS400, I love it but then again you may not want a 4 door. Otherwise pick a car you like cause in the end it's what you think that matters. Later
Does the S4 Bose system come with a subwoofer? If so I didn't notice it. Maybe it wasn't connected correctly. The dealership literally received the car that morning. It had less than a mile on it for the test drive.
My issue with the Bose was the overwhelming midrange, even after I adjusted the treble and bass. The lack of "brightness" you speak of was most obvious.
If it doesn't come standard, a subwoofer has a good chance of taking care of the problem.
Does the S4 Bose system come with a subwoofer? If so I didn't notice it. Maybe it wasn't connected correctly. The dealership literally received the car that morning. It had less than a mile on it for the test drive.
My issue with the Bose was the overwhelming midrange, even after I adjusted the treble and bass. The lack of "brightness" you speak of was most obvious.
If it doesn't come standard, a subwoofer has a good chance of taking care of the problem.
>>Very disappointed in the "premium" Bose stereo. Not crisp. My wifes Lexus ES300 sounds better, and my SC400 (Nakamichi) sounds much better.<<
Crisp? would you be describing high, mid, or low -end here? Most people prefer extremely bright (high-end off the chart) systems while others (who are subsequently called audiophiles even if they aren't) prefer neutral systems which neither accentuate either end. These systems faithfully reproduce the recording as it was intended. Some people hate 'em, some people love 'em. Doesn't really matter, because no matter how much dough you plunk down (even aftermarket) you can't get good sound out of ANY car. Two reasons:
#1 - Acoustics. Just won't work. Too small an area, with weird shapes, and un-sound-friendly material (metal & leather).
#2 - Electrics. 12v (okay 14v) systems can't touch 110v systems. Just won't.
So my advice, buy a car for how it drives and what it gives you in return, not the stereo. If that's what you want, buy a pair of $500 sennheiser headphones instead, it'll be better than any car stereo you can buy.
all my other raves about this car aside, one concern or complaint: my s4 transmission has always been tough to operate _smoothly_. Engaging into 2nd gear seems to have two separate points of engagement to deal with. the tranny also 'feels' as though it's clunking or hitting a gear or something in the transmission unless i let the revs back way down with the clutch depressed and then execute the shift. car only has 1400+ miles on it, and no, i dont abuse this transmission - no track workouts, no red light dragstrip nonsense.
Comments
I presently drive an M3 and have driven the S4 twice. I feel the S4 is a superior car for spirited everyday driving. The M3 may be more fun 3 days a year but the roads where I live are about as far from the track as you can get. In the world of ruts, potholes, and expansion joints that I live in the S4 excels. I can't say for sure until I've had the S4 on the track which I prefer there. The M3 has a go-cart personality that is definitely absent in the S4.
The weight issue is not an apples to apples comparison. Compare the S4's weight to the new, comparably loaded 328i's and you will find only a 100 lb. discrepancy. Don't forget that a base M3(400 lbs. lighter) is equipped more like racing car than a luxury car. Manual seats, no folding rear seat, no glass sun roof, no keyless entry, etc. AWD more than makes up for the other 100 lbs.
Y rated 225's were probably a ride quality decision. Euro S4's have Z-rated p zero's from what I've read.
I currently have a '94 325i that I have had a few Dinan things done to is: Level 3 suspension, chip, cold air intake & throttle body. My car has apros 220 hp & 215 fl/lbs of torque... and drives harder and edgier than an M3
The new S4 is a VERY torqueie car off the line! Press the throttle and instantly the car lunges ahead... much like a V8 Mustang. My 325 (with the Dinan cold air ram) waits about a 1/4 second to gulp some air before the power comes on off the line. I felt the Audi's shifter was a bit vague...
but it was the Quattro that really impressed me. I took a downward sweeping off ramp at 70... and I could feel power shifting to keep the car on track. The stock tires are better left for winter use... this car could really use some Pole Positions!
I am currently trying to decide if I should take the plunge and sell my modified BMW and try the Audi....
1) although I feel the S4 is fast off the line, it is not as fast as I would like. I have emailed some tuners to see how fast this car could be EASILY made... if I can get 300 hp (chip +50 hp) for $500... and 350 hp (intake & exhaust +50 more) for another $1500 THAT would be a KILLER deal for a 350 hp car. to do the same with a 2000 m3 would take $8,000 for a supercharger... and a 340 hp 2002 M3 will cost $50,000 out of the box...
2) almost everything else about the car: interior styling; hip, trendy outside look, is excellent. Breaks are good. Suspension has a bit too much roll, but sport springs & roll bars should solve that. The interior leather is VERY nice.
3) I HATE limited availability cars... probably why I bought the BMW instead of a 240 hp Cobra Mustang in '94... one thing I don't need in my life is attitude from an Audi dealer!
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~dkelly/my325i.htm
I was searching on A4.org. Look at this post (link down below) by someone who was at a track. I think he works at a dealer. But then again he could be lying.
My brother has an M3 and I love how fast it is, so I've been looking for a dealer who has one, otherwise it looks like a long wait
http://www.a4.org/forum/m/s4/11173.phtml
I was searching on A4.org. Look at this post (link down below) by someone who was at a track. I think he works at a dealer. But then again he could be lying.
My brother has an M3 and I love how fast it is, so I've been looking for a dealer who has one, otherwise it looks like a long wait
http://www.a4.org/forum/m/s4/11173.phtml
Anyone have performance info on the 3 cars?
My owners manual reads the lowest RON rated fuel I should use is 95. This is equivalent to super. In Germany the pumps use ROZ ratings. The ROZ rating on the super pump is 95. I'm only assuming RON = ROZ. Am I correct? Also I've been told that 3-4 years ago the Germans went to a super plus fuel. This fuel has special additives to accommodate cars with no catalytic converters. The super plus has a ROZ/RON of 98. If I use the 95 will I have less performance. I guess this is an issue of performance and octane, and if it matters what I use. The difference in price: $3.90 more per 100lts from super to super-plus. One final note: November issue of Playboy reviewed the SVT Mustang and rated a 5.3 0-60. With the chip the S4 rates a 5.0 0-62mph, quoted by ABT. Thought that was impressive.
Currently have an A4 2.8 quattro and love the car. Drove the S4 and wow. Only major complaints were short 1st gear ,long throws, and a little too much body role. Great car for around 40k.
The S4 (I have the same engine in my A6 2.7T) is tuned for 91 (RON+MON)/2 US or 95 RON, no matter what country you buy it in. Using 98 RON (or 93 here in the US) won't do anything extra for you.
The manual states for high performance, use 95 RON/91 AKI (R+M/2) or higher. It also states the car run on down to 91 RON/87 AKI without damage.
I presume this means the reduced grades you get at high altitudes (Denver), like 85 R+M/2 regular, 87 mid and 90 premium are okay as long as you stay at high altitudes?
The additives for non-catalytic cars don't do anything, the science behind them was bad it turns out. Here in California they are removing the additives.
The initial excitement on these additives (oxygenation) was generated by a study in Seattle (Washington, US) where they switched to oxygenated gas and it lowered smog 30% one winter. That summer many states (California) started requiring oxygenated gas in winter. Problem is the next winter when Seattle used the oxygenated gas again the smog was back up, and in fact significantly higher than it had been before they switched to oxygenated gas. So, the additives are unproven and falling out of favor.
The Mitsu 3000GT (or GTO outside US) is a twin turbo V6. Frankly, the AWD system on the GTO is lousy, it loses traction when you lose just one wheel, unlike Audi's system. Frankly, the whole car is lousy, it has survived almost unmodified since 1988, it's just plain out of date. I don't know why they haven't cancelled it. Also, it is very heavy and handles poorly. Still, the S4 isn't exactly light.
No word on S6 in NA yet.
I've heard 36/12k lease for $650. On online site was way high on price, Most others were at sticker. Are there any deals out there?
While it's no doubt as fast as a BMW 540i 6-spd you will have a little more wind and road noise.
I seriously considered a VR4 back in '91 but went with an Eclipse GSX and a Kawaski ZX11 instead, figuring I could beat most of the cars most of the time and ALL of those cars ALL of the time.
This turned out to be true to the chagrin of a certain ZR1-Vette owner who was dumb enough to challenge that (modded) bike at a stoplight. (okay, no fair comparing bikes to cars but it sure was fun to see the driver's stunned look when he asked me my 0-60 time at the next light and I told him 2.7 seconds!)
If you can live with the extra wind and road noise the S4 is a good choice, but your Vette will certainly be quicker (on dry roads).
An S4 is a lousy replacement for a 5-series. It is far too small to compare. It is smaller than a 3-series (inside). Did you buy the 5-series for the size? If so, look at the A6 2.7T. It is similar performance to the 540i, but far cheaper. However, no sport suspension available yet (in the US), so it doesn't handle as well as a 540i (in fact, it may not handle as well once it gets the sport suspension). But it is quicker to 60, stops quicker, and holds the same load inside. AWD too.
mgreen1, the ZX11 will beat 99% of the cars out there 100% of the time but there are extreme car(s) that can whip (relatively speaking) the ZX11. Look at next months Car and Driver review of the BOSS Mustang. 0 - 60 in an astonishing 1.9 seconds!
-rdo
russell.ollie@erols.com
For my $10K I saved, I can deal with that.
You could go the extra $10K and get the A6 4.2 which is virtually identical in accelleration to the 540i (and better in braking), but frankly it doesn't handle as well, so unless you see the AWD as an advantage (I do, many don't), just stick with the 540i.
You aren't going to see any 0-60 1.9s cars on the road, so you don't have to worry about racing them by mistake. Any car that can do that has to weigh so little that it would be clearly modified (one interior seat, no dash) and is very unlikely to be street legal.
bollinger, while I agree with your general sentiment, it is factually incorrect. The BOSS Mustang that I'm looking at in the January Car and Driver weighs 3,695 pounds which is by no means light. Further, not only does this thing appear to be street legal, aside from the garish paint job on the John Coletti car and the raised hood, the car looks quite normal compared to a Cobra Mustang (standard interior and all). Of course it has 855 hp at 6,200 rpm and 794 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm so it's not normal!
-rdo
russell.ollie@erols.com
p.s. - I'll have to read the article for detail later I guess.
I was surprise how stock both of those cars look. However, given that the article makes a point of how both of the two car owners won't give straight facts about their cars, I can't imagine the weights are correct. 855HP at 3,600lbs just shouldn't equal 1.9 to 60.
Still, my talk about you can look at the interior and see its modded is clready wrong, huh? I guess you'll have to look for super-wide rear tires.
Those two cars both look streetable, but I doubt they pass the less obvious tests required (volume, emissions).
Both of those cars are amazing, but the Mustang far more so.
The results:
Manual KILLS the Tiptronic. Don't get me wrong, Tip was good, but you lose a lot. No question.
Two ways to change gears in the tiptronic- steering wheel, and via the center drive stick. Gears automatically change in Tip mode somewhere around 6300rpm...I guess to protect you from killing the tranny.
Highlights:
This car asks for abuse, then asks for more. Unbelievable performance with the manual transmission. Believe everything you read about the performance on this machine.
Navigation system was really nice. Directions show up on the middle screen between the tach and the speedometer. Female voice navigates you. Cool touch.
Disappointments:
I thought there would be more styling differences compared to the A4 beyond larger tires, front airdam, and tiny S4 badges. Don't get me wrong, I like the A4 styling, just expected more aggressivenes with the S4.
Very disappointed in the "premium" Bose stereo. Not crisp. My wifes Lexus ES300 sounds better, and my SC400 (Nakamichi) sounds much better.
HID headlights look good, but don't turn on and off automatically. I thought auto headlamps were pretty much a standard feature on perf/lux cars these days.
END RESULT - Performance is there, but I just can't get excited about the overall look of the car. If the styling were a little more aggressive that would put me over the edge. I fully expected, going into the test drive, to be placing my order before leaving. I'm holding off on buying one for now.
Looks like SoCal dealers have more of supply so those in NorCal looking for one should expand their searches down there or go through a broker like I did.
I couldn't even find a dealership here in the Bay Area that had any on their lots and plus they were charging ~$2500 over MSRP on the average. The wait for an ordered car would have taken 3-6 months in some cases.
Did you pay MSRP or less for your car?
Also, HID headlights are not a standard feature on most luxury cars. Many luxury cars do not have them, and if they do, they are an option (including, BMW). Personally, I have not heard of being able to turn on and off HID headlights. There are autoleveling headlights, and I have only heard of a few very high end cars that have this feature.
Apparently, you are really into the Lexus thing, so nothing about a premium performance sedan would get you going, so why don't you just wait for the Lexus IS sports sedan to come out. Sounds like it's more up your alley. That cushy, floaty Japanese feeling (I know I had a Camry, exactly like the Lexus ES 300, that's why I got rid of it!)
uofmiami - Why do people (you) insist on putting cars up on a pedastal? No car is untouchable. Even when it is unlikely, any car be bested. As to the #1 title, as you mention, there is no real #1 title, but many car experts/magazines seem to think the S4 is as good or better than the M3. Of course, that is easier in a year where there is no M3. I think Audi was a bunch of geniuses to bring out the S4 when there is no M3. This gives this excellent car a head start it would otherwise have had more trouble getting.
No need to put down Lexus, they deliver true luxury with more reliabilty than any other manufacturer, that's what some people want. My wife loves her ES300. I've simply graduated to a higher performance level than Lexus can deliver. I know a couple of other people who have SC400's and really love them. They just aren't real performance drivers.
The one thing I can't stand about my current car is that "floaty" drive you speak of, hence why I want to dump the SC400. After driving a friends 92 S4 (mod), anothers 96 M3, and yet anothers 99 Porsche, I long for feeling those cars deliver.
The Bose sound system in the S4 would probably be considered decent by many people. I'm not one of those people. I haven't heard a Bose system that I like yet. Wife's ES300 has a Bose system. Don't like it either, but better than the S4. My last car, Acura Legend, had Bose system comparable to the S4. Didn't like it. Again, just IMO.
As far as the styling goes, if the S4 would simply have a some "ground effects" differences, like thicker rockers, it would put me over the edge. Anyone out there know the aftermarket possiblilities for this? I'm familiar with the chip and exhaust upgrades, which are a no brainer, but I haven't seen anything for styling.
I'm pretty sure you misunderstood the disappointment with the headlights. I was referring specifically to the feature that turns on the lights on automatically if it's dark.
I test drove a '99 A4 2.8 Quattro for a whole weekend over the summer. I can understand why you like it. Great car, just not enough power for me.
Happy Holidays!!!
No, I don't love it, I could certainly do better if I set up my own stereo, but I am willing to live with a little worse sound to have a factory system. This is because the factory systems are better integrated and far less likely to get stolen.
I have to agree, the treble is still a little faulty. It's better than Bose past, and more along the lines of the super-bright Infinitys I am used to. The bass is excellent. The subwoofer does a good job, although when you turn up the bass level, it makes it apparent that most of it is coming from behind you. C'est la vie.
uofmiami - The statement I am talking about is the one of "the current S4 will need aftermarket mods to run with the new M3". The new M3 doesn't even exist yet, and you have relegated it to the back seat. Many other people said the same about the current M3, and are finding the two cars are neck-and-neck in many circumstances. Why don't you wait for an actual comparison (or even the existence of the new M3) before you crown a king?
Anyway, if you went and bought a 2000 model, it would be a twin-turbo on the 2.0L Boxer 4.
Bobsc400,
Where and when did I slam you buddy? I don't know where that came from at all. I love Lexus and I drive one too so I don't know what you are talking about. Plus I have the headlights on my car set to go off when I shut the car off and on when I turn the car on, which Bollinger doesn't like
Does the S4 Bose system come with a subwoofer? If so I didn't notice it. Maybe it wasn't connected correctly. The dealership literally received the car that morning. It had less than a mile on it for the test drive.
My issue with the Bose was the overwhelming midrange, even after I adjusted the treble and bass. The lack of "brightness" you speak of was most obvious.
If it doesn't come standard, a subwoofer has a good chance of taking care of the problem.
Does the S4 Bose system come with a subwoofer? If so I didn't notice it. Maybe it wasn't connected correctly. The dealership literally received the car that morning. It had less than a mile on it for the test drive.
My issue with the Bose was the overwhelming midrange, even after I adjusted the treble and bass. The lack of "brightness" you speak of was most obvious.
If it doesn't come standard, a subwoofer has a good chance of taking care of the problem.
Not crisp. My wifes Lexus ES300 sounds better, and my SC400 (Nakamichi) sounds much better.<<
Crisp? would you be describing high, mid, or low -end here? Most people prefer extremely bright (high-end off the chart) systems while others (who are subsequently called audiophiles even if they aren't) prefer neutral systems which neither accentuate either end. These systems faithfully reproduce the recording as it was intended. Some people hate 'em, some people love 'em. Doesn't really matter, because no matter how much dough you plunk down (even aftermarket) you can't get good sound out of ANY car. Two reasons:
#1 - Acoustics. Just won't work. Too small an area, with weird shapes, and un-sound-friendly material (metal & leather).
#2 - Electrics. 12v (okay 14v) systems can't touch 110v systems. Just won't.
So my advice, buy a car for how it drives and what it gives you in return, not the stereo. If that's what you want, buy a pair of $500 sennheiser headphones instead, it'll be better than any car stereo you can buy.
-rhesse
all my other raves about this car aside, one concern or complaint: my s4 transmission has always been tough to operate _smoothly_. Engaging into 2nd gear seems to have two separate points of engagement to deal with. the tranny also 'feels' as though it's clunking or hitting a gear or something in the transmission unless i let the revs back way down with the clutch depressed and then execute the shift. car only has 1400+ miles on it, and no, i dont abuse this transmission - no track workouts, no red light dragstrip nonsense.
anyone else experiencing this?
... sleeves