Audi A6



  • alban1alban1 Member Posts: 1
    I recently purchased a 2002 3.0 quatro. When the car is in drive...the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are fine, however, the 3-4 and 4-5 shifts are both completed with the car at approx 1500 rpms and acceleration all but dies. I have the car at the dealer now..his first response was that the car is within parameters. Anyone else experience this problem?
  • dtwleungnycdtwleungnyc Member Posts: 188
    The 5th is almost like, if not a overdrive gear. I only uses the 5th on the highway. 4th gear, depending on speed, usually stays at around 2500 rpms at highway speed (around 60 mph). 3rd gear and lower are obviously at higher rpms when at the same speed. Now, one thing that could be happening is this. Since this is an adaptive transmission, maybe its still learning your pattern? I know during my first 600 miles or so, the shift was a bit abrupt, if you know what I mean. Now at around 1500 miles, the transmission shift is quite smooth. Hope this helps, and good luck.
  • allagarooallagaroo Member Posts: 88
    Thanks markcincinnati and mbnut1.

    My motivation for the CVT was that it has the approximately the performance of a manual and I thought the 3.0 at 220 hp performance might be close to the 2.7T for less money. The 2.8 at 200hp when I got the 2.7 was too slow for me. I am reluctant to give up Quattro because the handling/traction/ride combination is terrific. I was thinking about the 540i and the upcoming Infiniti M45. Sounds like CVT and Quattro wont happen until at least 2004 models.
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    I had an '02 A6 3.0 quattro with Tip as a loaner. I didn't notice any substantial difference in feel of the shifting compared to my '01 2.7T. The tranny seemed to take good advantage of the 3.0's torque characteristics. Since maximum torque comes in higher up in the rev range, and I think, is narrower, that suggests it would be selecting gears differently than my 2.7T. Curiously, I noticed that the sport mode seemed a little less effective than it did in an '02 3.0 A4 I drove.

    I don't think it's strange if the Tip is upshifting @ 1500, under light constant throttle. All cars are an attempt to balance performance with mileage for many reasons such as CAFE, etc. Upshifting into a higher gear helps reduce fuel consumption. If you dip into the throttle a little more, or drive in a more spirited fashion, the tranny should respond by holding gears longer. If it doesn't, then I'd have questions
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    You have some interesting choices to make, Jerry. From my brief driving of a 3.0 quattro, I don't think the 3.0 would offer equivalent power even in CVT form. However, the 3.0 even WITH quattro is substantially more lively than the 2.8 was. It seems to rev even more easily, and you can certainly feel the added power. I'd urge you to take a couple of test drives in the quattro version. I think you might be surprised.

    I've not treated myself to a drive in a 540. By all accounts, it's a wonderful car to drive with great performance, handling and comfort. But of course, it's RWD, which has both inherent advantages and disadvantages to AWD. I think I prefer the handling of AWD to RWD, but the most significant difference is that if you live anywhere there's winter, you'll probably want to run dedicated winter tires on the 540. Even then, its traction won't compare to a similarly equipped quattro.

    I also understand that the out-the-door prices on the 540 are around $10K more than the 2.7T. So if you're looking to pay less, it wouldn't seem to be in the running.

    The M45 is also RWD, so the same considerations apply. For me, what disqualifies it from consideration is its looks. How Infiniti arrived at the conclusion that mid '70's GM retro was the way to go is astounding to me. In the pictures I've seen it is the least attractive looking auto from just about anyone in the last 20 years, excepting the new Cadillacs. The CTS is the most aggressively ugly car I've seen on the road, whereas the M45 just kind of frumps along.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    If you are going to look at a BMW 540 -- then you owe yourself a long drive in an A6 4.2. The 4.2 is still less money than a 540 but I think you will be impressed especially if the 4.2 Audi has the full sport package: wheel/tire, suspension and sport seats. The 4.2 isn't as quick as the 540, but unless you plan to drag race one, the 4.2 will be quicker than almost anything else.

    Now, the 2.7T is also a contender but doesn't have quite the looks or the extra luxo touches that the 4.2 has. But the 2.7T can be maxed out and leave you with plenty of money left over especially when compared with a 540. And with the 2.7T with the 6spd manual, you will have an even quicker car.

    Apples to apples, I guess the 540 should be compared with the 4.2. Money wise though the BMW 530 when fully maxed out is pretty close to an Audi 4.2. The 540 compares with the 4.2 in my mind more because they are both 8 cylinder cars -- not because of price class.

    If you are indeed looking at the price classes your message suggests -- and if you are planning to lease a car -- you might even find yourself able to be "not that far off" on a monthly payment basis if you look at a 2002 S8!

    Choices, choices, choices. . . .
  • 927927 Member Posts: 2
    I seem to have the same problem with my S-6. I would like to talk to you. If this is OK post with a phone number or I will give you mine. thank you
  • hall42hall42 Member Posts: 12
    Well, now they tell me that the oil pump is on back order with Audi. I'm losing confidence and heightening my suspicions ...
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZMember Posts: 5,101
    I'm sure yours is yet another isolated case of significant mechanical difficulty that is experienced by all cars in this price range.

    Several of us are waiting anxiously to hear the outcome, for a variety of reasons.

    Hang in there.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    Thanks for the update, Deanna. Sorry to hear you're still not getting satisfaction. Sadly, AoA hasn't been known as being great about parts. I think you're absolutely justified to be unhappy with the level of problem resolution you've received to date for such a serious problem. I don't know if you also visit the Audi World site, but think you might want to. There are some folks there who know a great deal about cars and Audi's.

    Two people who are especially knowledgeable there are April/verdegrll and Richard Solomon. April loves cars and knows cars, has raced them, fixed them and used to sell Audi's. Richard has just generally known more about Audi's than anyone else whose posts I've read. Richard hasn't posted in awhile, but still might be reading the board. I address your concerns there in general, and specifically ask if either of these two folks could offer any advice.

  • allagarooallagaroo Member Posts: 88
    Thanks.Mark and Tim for your advice. The deciding ingredient may be Nasdaq. I'll let you know when I start getting serious after Labor Day and do some test driving.
  • vertimaxvertimax Member Posts: 9
    After a weekend with my new 2002 2.7T, I'm pleased to say that it drives beautifully and I have no regrets about choosing it over the 5 series (both 530i and 540i). My only concerns are re: the electricals. You all read about my superlative service experience last week after the my first set of problems. Now, a second - the airbag indicator light came on and didn't turn off. Took the car back to the dealer, where they replaced both airbags and the wiring harness. Once again, their efforts to correct the problem were great. Let's hope this isn't a lemon I'm driving!

    Notwithstanding these problems, the 2.7T is a great driver. As I have told many people, I still think the 5 series has a better combo of ride and handling, but it's marginal. I think the benefits of the quattro system, good looks of the car (especially with the sport package) and superior interior appointments won me over. The fact that the 2.7T is a much better value adds even more appeal. I was able to get a lease on a fully equipped 2.7T for significantly less than a 530i, not to even mention the 540i.

    I will say that I wish I had more seriously considered the 4.2, since so many of you are such big fans of it. However, think I'll wait for an RS6 next....
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The 4.2 when compared to the 2.7T is beefier looking and has a few luxo touches. But it is more expensive. The 2.7T is -- IMHO -- the value leader of the A6's. And when you compare an A6 2.7T to a 530 Bimmer, the 2.7T looks all the better -- especially financially.

    I have had three Audi's with the 4.2 V8 engine -- my next car coundown 15 weeks -- will be a 2003 6spd manual allroad 2.7T -- I have no reason to believe I will be disappointed.

    The RS6 even to me seems like overkill here in southern Ohio with our congested freeway system. But I would love to have one.
  • marleybarrmarleybarr Member Posts: 334
    You mentioned the "luxo touches" the 4.2 has over the 2.7T. Could you write about some of these? Basically I assumed they were the same car- only the 4.2 has the bigger engine, tires,flared fenders,etc. The list price differential between the 2.7 AND 4.2 must mean some significant upgrades for the 4.2?
  • marleybarrmarleybarr Member Posts: 334
    Thanks for listing the website. It was informative and answered most of my questions.
    It appears that the 2.7T has most everything the 4.2 has (or could have) excepting the engine and the electric tilt steering.
    I guess I will just have to go test drive one to experience the subtle (and probably important) other differences!
    Thanks again-Max.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Just like the 4.2 for the hunkiness.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHMember Posts: 22,050
    Looks like any other A6 unless you spot the tiny badge or the hogged-out fenders, cool!

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    I have a 2001 2.7T that I picked up 6/01 which now has 19000+ miles. To me, this car has been as reliable as the Subies, Hondas I've had previously while being a far more sophisticated and complicated vehicle.
    Only complaint: Brakes (well documented on this forum - which I've been following for over a year without posting) which were swapped out free of charge and have now been flawless.
    Unless the car lets me down going forward, I will set my sights on another one when my lease is up.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I took my 2001 A6 4.2 in at 30K miles (about two weeks ago) -- while it was there the Service Manger test drove the car and decided that the brakes were again shuddering (which was true). I thought it was the rear brakes as I had done what Audi had told me which was to take the car to 60 MPH and pull on the hand brake (a little). If the rumble and shdder happened they said, it meant it was the rear rotors.

    Much to my pleasant surprise, this wonderful dealer Northland Porsche & Audi, put four new rotors on the car. I have since driven the car to Pittsburgh twice (from Cincinnati) about a 500 mile round trip and also to the Kentucky Tennesee border (about a 500 mile round trip). The brakes have never been this good, even the slight sponginess that has been the hallmark of the feel of the pedal is gone.

    Those of you who are counting, know that I have had 2 A6 4.2's and including the set that the cars came with, I think I am up to at least 8 or 9 sets of rotors on these two vehicles.

    I say this almost in disbelief -- but it is true.

    Some who read this board think I am nuts to be so loyal to Audi with the experience I have had with these two Audis. Indeed, I counter that while I would have rather not had the brakes replaced so many time, it is the behavior and treatment by my dealer and AoA that has actually increased my loyalty and "affection" for the brand. Mechanical stuff has problems -- hopefully the design, engineering or, most likely, the supplier of the parts has been sacked and new, better one put in its stead.

    My 2003 allroad is being built in week 39 and I suspect that means I will have my current A6 only another 4 months -- but again at 30+K miles, this Audi just keeps getting better.

    In spite of the brake issues, I will miss this car -- it is fantastic to drive. And now the brakes are silent and vibration free.

    Life is good.
  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    with #3069 vis-a-vis the service issue. I refuse to buy cars from Manhattan-based dealerships (regardless of make) as their level of arrogance and hubris is remarkable. Instead I got my car at Mohegan Lake Motors where the level of service by all depts I've dealt with is exemplary. All things being equal, the service variable is a very important determinant in my next auto acquisition. Then again, they're in it to make money and I certainly fit within their desirable demographic profile of Audi purchasers.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZMember Posts: 5,101
    Who pays for all these replacements? Could it possibly be the people acquiring future cars? No, of course the manufacturer eats this and writes it off to goodwill.

    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • 4apexs4apexs Member Posts: 36
    After 1000 miles on my wife's leased 2002 A6 3.0 Quattro:
    Intermittently stays in first gear to redline - will not shift up while in D.
    Air conditioning will not stay in manual setting for inside recirculating air - goes to auto setting which lets in outside air - not good in rush hour traffic.
    Car delivered with out of balance tire(s).
    Fortunately my wife took another job and the company car is gone.
    Bye, not buy - Audi.
  • mariobgoodemariobgoode Member Posts: 114
    Mark, you forgot to mention that the 4.2 costs $ 10,000 more, and that it doesn't come with a stick. That combination sold me on the 2.7T. With the sport package you recommended, it had been pure driving pleasure for the past 9 months. Now, don't forget to post your feedback on the Allroad. Thanks again for your input. Mario
  • morphiemorphie Member Posts: 95
    I have an intriguing problem:

    My wife's A6 3.0 (2002) sounds like a whining supercharger between 1,500-2,000 rpm, when the a/c is on. It is clearly a/c related. the dealer has heard the noise and agrees it is a defect. The service manager called "Audi" and was told it was "normal" during warm weather. Both the dealer and I think this is hogwash. First, the noise is objectionable and loud; second, other 2002's I have driven do not have this problem. Occasionally, I have seen Audi engage in these tactics: i.e. not acknowledging a difficulty, that is not safety related. Most of my service concerns, in the past, have been fairly dealt with. I will insist that they remedy this problem.

    Has anyone else experienced this audible difficulty?
  • marleybarrmarleybarr Member Posts: 334

    I think we all better start buying our Audis from Northland, the service they have given you is simply amazing!
    Audi has probably spent more warranty dollars replacing your 4.2 brakes than any other 4.2 in the country!
    I'm sure your new Allroad is being built with the utmost of care, AoA does not want markcincinnati bringing that car back for brake problems, (or any problems), for that matter!
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    Mike, sorry to learn of your overly loud fan(s). I only drove the 3.0 for one day when it was cooler, and so have little direct experience. The 2.7T is notorious for fan noise. I think the dealer told me there are at least three cooling fans under the hood. When the air is on, and it gets hotter, they all run. The hotter, the louder. They sound like an air raid siren, all be it, a fairly quiet one. While the noise is very discernable from outside the car, inside it's very faint. That IS normal. However, if it's loud enough to be troubling in the car, or if other cars driven under the SAME conditions don't exhibit it, it ISN'T. One thing noted on the 2.7T is that some cars had the housing for an auxiliary cooling fan loosen and protrude into the plastic fan blades. This had the result of drastically increasing the level of noise and was repaired by replacing it.
  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    I had a similar problem on my 2.7T AFTER I picked it up from the dealer for its 20k service. However, the noise was what I'd describe as a low but audible and intrusive drone from the passenger side area. Dealer gave me similar explanation to what timcar rec'd. However, by turning climate control on and off several times it went away. Several days later it reappeared, went away on its own and hasn't been heard since. Even at full boil all I hear is air; ostensibly the way the system is designed to work. Unfortunately, actually replacing the hardware requires removing the entire dash which would then lead to the possibility of imperfect fit or increased squeaks and rattles (the latter two being one of my very few nitpics on this car).
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    Thanks for the amplification Peter, but I think we're talking about different things. The multiple fans in the engine compartment to which I'm referring are, I believe, ENGINE cooling fans, not fans that are used for the climate control. I know when I needed to track down a noise in the engine compartment (bad auxiliary cooling fan.) I counted at least three. I don't know if there are more. Some of these fans only seem to engage when the temperature soars, particularly if the air is working hard and, I think, thereby increasing engine load, and hence heat. This pattern of sounds has been consistent over the 1 1/2 years I've driven the car. They occur every time one of the conditions I've described occurs, and always have done so.

    A different noise popped last winter: I've got crickets living behind the right side of my dash! Specifically, a fan or impeller that is evidently associated with only the heating phase of the climate control system is a bit loose, and occasionally makes a noise very reminiscent of crickets. So far, I've found it somewhat charming, since I share your concerns exactly about having my very nicely fitted dash torn apart.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Northland is a very good dealership. And, I try to be a good customer. I inform the service manager of my issue, he checks it out -- he makes the determination of what needs to be done. I have written AoA to praise the dealer and its employees by name whenever appropriate (which is probably at least once or twice a year). I give the dealership a 5 (out of 5) when ever I am called for a survey.

    I ask about the brake issues and while I have been persistent in seeking remedy, I am far from the only one with the issue. Check audiworld, search on A6 brake issues or other search words, like rotors, warp, etc etc. The number of problems with these brakes has been, if I hadn't seen them so often, almost unbelievable.

    The 2000 A6 4.2 I leased was the first 4.2 in Cincinnati in 1999 when mine came in (a preorder of about 12 months). The brakes -- with the owner of the dealership in the car with me during the test drive (before I signed the papers) -- were warped from the moment I first got behind the wheel of the car. I still loved the car. I thought my problems were probably a one off, and was really surprised when my 2001 A6 came in and developed the same problems within 8000 miles.

    We have had Audi 5000's, an Audi Silver Fox, a Fox GTI, a 5000CS quattro, 2 Audi coupes, 1 coupe quattro, 2 100 S, 1 100 quattros, an S6, several 80's, 90's, 2 A4's 3 A6's 1 A8 and two TT's -- not to mention 1 Jetta and 1 Quantum and 1 Passat (all since 1978, when I got into my first Audi a 1976 silver/blue Fox and immediately went to the dealership and picked up a new 1978 5000). All of the cars have had at least some minor acute problem -- emphasize the word minor.

    The A6 4.2's I had/have had very few acute (i.e., normal) issues and one chronic problem -- the rotors. While I have never liked the shuddering brakes, I generally have always characterized the problem as annoying, not really "concerning" (in terms of stopping efficiency). But, I do think that the only way a company will know about the issues is for the owners to let them know -- which I have done. Apparently many -- at least going by what I read over on audiworld -- have had the same brake problems. I have now put another couple thousand miles on the car (I am at 33K) and no hint of the problem returning.

    Audi obviously knows about the problems and perhaps they have changed vendors. Hopefully the 2003 allroad I ordered will have the new discs or altogether new brakes -- as I have seen posters on the allroad forum on audiworld describe to a T the same issues I have had.

    In any case, I still am happy with the brand and the dealership. And so is my wife. We will both be getting new 03 Audi's in less than 4 months.

    Like I said, while we have high expectations of both Audi and the dealer, we are GOOD customers.

    And, I agree, the 2.7T with the 6spd and sport pkg is a very fine choice indeed -- perhaps the "bargain" of the line, too.

    The A6 4.2's -- especially now -- are my favorite Audi's so far, even more to my liking than the wonderful A8.

    Again, life is good.
  • marleybarrmarleybarr Member Posts: 334
    I'm amazed about your research and follow up results about the 4.2's brakes! I thought for sure that maybe you were just an extra "fussy" Audi owner and other 4.2 owners wouldn't have noticed the brake "shutter" at all! I guess I was totally wrong about that issue.
    I don't have any problem being really fanatical about the Audi. For example, when I bought the 2.7T, I noticed (in the sun) "swirl" marks in the black paint. I promptly returned to the dealer and the service manager and myself checked out every black Audi in the lot to notice the factory "swirl" in the paint- sure enough- every other car had this too. The service guy explained it is just part of the Audi process of painting at the German factory.
    For what it cost (per mile) to drive the average new Audi, the customer has the right to be "fussy" up to a certain reasonable point!
    BTW, are you one of the "lucky" 860 RS-6 buyers in the US next year? How about 415 lb.-ft. of torque/0-60 4.6 sec, but no 6-speed tip!Audi also claims no 6-speed tranny can handle this torque. I read they are using the transmission from the A-8 W-12 platform not sold in the U.S.
    My next Audi purchase should incorporate the 6-speed tip that you have mentioned on this forum before.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Oh this damn recession -- I am in the sector known now as the "cause of the recession" -- the now burst bubble tech sector. I am fortunate -- thus far -- to be a survivor. So, a "self inflicted wound" like an RS-6 would not be prudent.

    And, I do want and will demand a manual transmission -- for several reasons, the allroad 2.7T with the 6spd looks sortof like the Swiss Army Knife's of cars -- and with a set of bigger wheels and tires and mild "turbo chip" (and uprated bypass valves) under the hood and a new exhaust system -- the 2.7T will easily put out over 300HP and well over 300 lb ft of torque (which by all accounts the transmission can handle) and should be an absolute hoot to drive.

    And, I won't see myself coming and going even moreso than with the A6's.

    My wife's getting another 225HP TT and she says it doesn't need chipping.

    For us at this time, this is our austerity program as we continue (hopefully) to come out of the recession.

    Perhaps an S4 though. . . .
  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    I thought in a previous post you were getting the allroad w/ V-8. Maybe I read it wrong. Anyway, you write "perhaps an S4 though..." I, too, have been eyeing the S4 when my 2.7T lease is up in a few years (I know, I tend to get ahead of myself). However, I recently had as a loaner an '02 A4 1.8T. I enjoyed that overall demeanor of the car alot (though I'm not as enamoured of that buzzy engine as some are). Coming out of an A6 I noticed that the transmission tunnel was very intrusive and cut into my right leg-room unlike any car I've ever driven. Has anyone else perceived this? Reason I ask is that S4 would use same body. Thanks in advance for answering an A4 question on the A6 thread!!!
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    I had an '02 3.0 A4 as a loaner. I drive an '01 2.7T and my wife has an '01 1.8T A4. I'm a wide guy, and the '01 A4 is just shy enough width to allow me to get completely comfortable. While the '02's added space on paper isn't significant, I found it substantively roomier than the '01. No, it isn't as comfortable for me as my A6, but I think I would find it acceptable. I didn't specifically notice the transmission tunnel, though the overall width available to the driver is certainly less than the A6's.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The Audi 4.2 V8 is a wonderful piece of work -- I especially like the way it growls as goes through the gears and upshifts at redline. But, sadly, no manual transmission is available and my guess is none planned for the allroad V8. So, I'm getting what may be one of the last few manual transmission Audis that will be imported.

    On the other hand, the new Ziff(?) 6spd tiptronic -- coming in a couple of years to the entire lineup (is my guess) may make the manual obsolete -- for the right reasons.

    I asked the dealer, why no manuals (or darn few) -- he says the manuals sit and sit and sit until they are discounted. Of course the manual A6's and allroads that are "on the lot" don't have many options and even the low price doesn't motivate me to lease one.

    I wonder why the manual is less desirable. . . I have had many manual transmission cars and I generally let my friends and neighbors drive my cars -- they love the manual transmission. But when they go to the dealer the only manuals on the lot are the "strippies" -- they have minimal options, that is -- so a fully optioned tip A6 2.7T will sell while a minimally optioned A6 2.7T manual will sit. I wonder if fully optioned manual transmission versions were "on the lot" if they wouldn't sell?

    Even the S6 is automatic -- as is the S8. For some reason, the 8's seem to carry off the automatic transmissions well -- in hindsight I didn't miss the manual in my A8. But today, I miss a manual transmission in my A6 4.2.

    Rumor mill: new S4, will have 4.2 V8 tuned to intermediate level (340HP) and manual transmission.
  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    about the allroad being one of the last manual Audis imported. I think that as VW continues to differentiate the bloodlines of VW and Audi, they will have to choice but to continue to offer (hopefully across more and more of the model line) manual transmissions as Audi has been given the "sporty" torch to bear.
    As technology and amorphous styling continue to blur the distinction between ALL marques, I think that consumer perception and image will play an increased role. That is why BMW will probably always carry manual models; Audi seems to be moving in that direction since, as mentioned, they are positioning themselves as the "other" German BMW.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Here is what I think is happening:

    1. the TT will have an automatic in it in the 2003 model year, I heard if you got the 180HP model that it will "soon" only come in auto
    2. the base A6 has lost the manual, the 4.2 never had it, ditto S6, and most of the 2.7T's by far have been autos (ditto the allroad)
    3. on the dealer's lot, about 2/3 of the A4's are auto
    4. the CVT will soon be ready for quattro
    5. the 6spd tip, which I am led to believe will "convert" even a die hard like me, is coming soon across the line
    6. the RS6 and S8 -- only automatics
    7. the new A4 Cab -- auto only
    8. CVT and new 6spd conventional automatic will be "enough" to certify for US, why bother with manual.
    9. new W8 Passat will soon (2003 model) be avail with 6spd manual and sport suspension.


    Conclusion (my opinion): perhaps while not withdrawn from the market entirely, the manual transmission Audis will (are) become (ing) an increasingly smaller percentage of the total sold (according to my dealer) and therefore will be "THE" special order cars, discounts will be more rare on the manuals, and trade in values will be eroded. Result: we consumers won't want to order our cars "special" pay more than an identical one that is on the lot but that has an auto, have the residual value of the manual Audi erode faster than the auto, and probably have less aggressive lease rates for the manual transmission cars.

    I don't like it, not at all -- but ditto the above for BMW and Mercedes (heck Mercs are probably pretty darn close to 100% automatic already). There are NO 7 series BMW's with sticks and it is hard to come by a 5 series with one (even though like the A6 2.7T, there are BMW 5 series with stick shifts "on the lot.").

    VW -- virtually all VW's do come with sticks -- so for now Audi will go after the sporty crowd who apparently are plunking down in increasing numbers, money for automatic Audis far more than they are for the stick shift versions. The argument of the sportier automatic is gaining some believers through the inclusion of the manu-matic transmissions that have become the virtual standard since calendar year 1997.

    Heck, I even bought my A6's with automatics, because I wanted the 4.2 package -- the automatic, which I did not want, came along for the ride.

    Hopefully I can keep the allroad for at least 36 months (which is my plan), for I fear that even the mighty S4 which may be initially offered with a stick shift -- will change to all auto (like the S6) due to lack of interest in a stick shift version.
  • hall42hall42 Member Posts: 12
    Is anyone familiar with Audi's dispute resolution mechanism for lodging a complaint?? I called Audi customer service and they said I have to submit in writing a complaint to Audi North America but I have no idea what they want me to write. Is this the time I get lawyers involved or it after this step? Also, earlier I received some responses telling me to contact the regional Audi rep. Could someone please give me this number. My manuals are in the car, which by the way, is still in the shop :( I would ask my dealer for the number but he couldn't even give me the correct number for Audi customer relations. Thanks in advance!!
  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    Your erudition and well laid out presentation on all things Audi cannot be impugned. Ironic, isn't it, that manual Audis would in a future world command a premium when AUTOMATICS were once the feature costing an additional four-figures!?! However, manuals may be subject to a "dead-cat bounce" as several noteable automakers have been rushing them to market; To mind come Lexus IS300, MB C240. I agree and lament with you whole-heartedly: technology may very well render the ubiquity of manuals obsolete. Thanks.
  • brain_11brain_11 Member Posts: 2
    When I shopping for A6 3.0 quatro it turned out that the price was cut for the new model. Here are the MSRPs (in CAD)

    2002 base model 54,235

    PPD 1,000
    PPC 2,975
    PPX 1,730
    ski sack 250
    heated rear seats 250

    SUM 60,440

    PPD: auto dimming mirror w compass, auto dimming exterior mirrors, homelink, seats memory
    PCC: leather upholstery, glass sunroof
    PPX: xenon lights, multifunction steering wheel, parctronic

    2003 Model (incl. leather int.) 54,640

    PPY 3,260
    PCW 480

    SUM 58,380

    PPY: glass sunroof, xenon lights, multifunction steering wheel, homelink, seats memory, autodimming mirrors (interior and exterior)
    PCW: heated rear seats, ski sac.

    So the only difference between the two models is the Parctronic (500 CAD)

    The difference is 1560$. Is there any catch?
  • marleybarrmarleybarr Member Posts: 334
    I bought '00 2.7T new for $42,500. I just checked the edmunds pricing formula and my car is now worth $28,167.00 as a trade-in to the dealer on something else.

    This is a $14,333 depreciation over 2 years and 35,000 miles. The car has "devalued" 41 cents/mile for the last 2 years!

    Assuming I put on another 15,000 miles before the warranty is out next July, using this formula the car will be worth about $22,017 at that time.

    I'm also assuming that the rate of depreciation slows somewhat after the 3 rd year of ownership, even so , markcincinnati does make a good case for leasing versus buying after looking at these figures!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I did buy in cash one brand new Audi -- a 1987 5000CS turbo quattro. I have leased the other 2 dozen odd Audi's and 1 BMW and 2 VW's -- my only reason, aside from my CPA telling me to rent what depreciates and buy what appreciates, is that I can't make buying on time work $-wise.

    Those that can, I take my hat off to -- I think it is a false economy to buy on time over leasing (unless, perhaps 0% interest is ever offered on an Audi [Ha! -- and pigs will fly, too] uh, er, not likely that is).
  • cncarlsoncncarlson Member Posts: 26
    I agree with you Mark that manuals are a dying breed, but the promise of the CVT is something else! It may make you forget the manual, let's not blame this all on the american market, there are only two pedals on the floor in all Formula One cars and the Audi R8. In the Porsche club events the tiptronic (steeringwheel mounted shift button cars) are the continually the fastest around the track. While, I agree that having to coordinate hand and foot to execute that perfect "snick" as you shift, is an excellent feeling, technology is passing us by!

    Anyway, that is what Miata's are for, a nice manual roadster to through around!!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 14,831
    So you're saying it is better to pay cash than lease? How so? You'll still take the same depreciation hit if you want to get rid of the car, there is just no worry about being upside down on your trade. But leasing is definitely better than taking a loan out and making monthly payments...I agree.

    Buy what appreciates and rent everything else... Logic dictates I do this, but real estate prices in NYC combined with my meager starting salaries on or near the bottom of the totem pole since I graduated college 4 years ago has forced me to do the opposite. I rent my apartment and just bought a leftover 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH at the end of April. I paid cash for the car. For what the car cost, would be a good start for a down payment on a condo around here.

    Once I start making more money and buy a place of my own, I will start to lease cars.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    I was in same boat you were. I'm out of school now 10 yrs and bot my co-op 6 yrs ago. At the time I was renting and owned a car; I switched to leasing to free up funds. Another point to remember is that owning what appreciates (real estate) is also tax deductible (if you have a mortgage); whereas car payments are not. I think the point is that whenever you're borrowing capital and paying interest (without a tax benefit) it makes sense to buy if you can. I'm now in the awkward position of being in a lease @ 15k/yr where I know I will exceed both the warranty and mileage allowance (I can hear Mark cringe (is cringing audible?) since I know he has advised about never keeping these things past warranty). Problem is that I had only been driving 10k/yr but due to some changes in lifestyle I'm putting more miles on now. Maybe I should blame Audi for building such excellent cars. Point: None really. However, I may consider buying my next Audi to avoid the whole mileage stress.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 14,831
    You can pre-pay for more miles per year and it will be significantly cheaper than if you pay for X amount of miles and have to go over the mileage. That being said, you should never lease a vehicle beyond its warranty period.

    I plan to stay in my apt for another 2 years (just signed a 2 year lease extension) and in that time save up enough money for a downpayment on a condo. Ideally I'd like to buy a 1 bedroom in the city, live in it for a few years, and then rent it out as a second source of income. Then I'd like to either move out to Jersey or Up to Westchester and buy a house with a garage so I don't have to worry about parking on the street!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    another daily aggrevation or added monthly expense depending on one's situation. I actually did prepay some miles up front @ 10cent/mile and I think that my driving around may decrease as the novelty of having this car wears off. Luckily, for 2001 Audi only charged 20c/mile over limit; I think I read in a recent ad for an '02 that they raised it to 25c.
    OT: Make sure you buy in a condo (like you mention in your message) if you want to rent it out one day. Co-ops, as you probably know, often have draconian restrictions about residents renting out their units.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 14,831
    Yeah, I know all about Co-Ops...hard to sub-let, hard to sell... I'm staying far away from Co-Ops.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Regardless of the financial "vehicle" used to acquire your car, running past 50K miles without a warranty is, IMHO, not a prudent thing to do. The German cars are wonderful to drive -- but, I would not drive one without the "insurance" provided by an extended warranty.

    Yes, I can hear cringing. . . .
  • uwscarguyuwscarguy Member Posts: 40
    Yes, your point is well taken. I estimate that I'll be about 20k miles outside of warranty by the time my lease is done. At this point do I shell out $2500 or so (just a guestimated figure) or do I risk going it alone after 50k? Mind you, my car has been flawless in 20k so I know I don't have a lemon or problem child on my hands. I know, I know, as we say in the financial industry "past performance is no guarantee of future results" but I see many people in the NY Metro area driving European cars that I KNOW are out of warranty and they're not living in boxes and eating catfood as a result of repairs to their Benz's or BMWs.
    Next time I'll do things differently. If I listen real hard, can I hear you crossing your fingers for me!?! ;')
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