Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options

Toyota Echo

12467115

Comments

  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    Hi there! I too welcome you.

    As a Toyota mechanic maybe you could help me with this one? How do I adjust the aiming of my headlamps? My owners manual says "take it to a Toyota dealer". I never had to do this before with something (usually) so simple as this. I'm a pretty good back yard mechanic and have been working on cars for over 40 years, so please help me out here....

    What does the hexagonal plastic knob that sticks out the back of the headlamp housing do ? I only want to tip the headlamps down a bit, sideways they are OK. My problem is that I often carry 2-300 lbs. of tools in the trunk and that causes oncoming traffic to flash their headlamps at me even when I'm on low beams.....
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    I got up at 5am this morning, left my Mom's house at around 5:30am and was home at about 6:45am. I am somewhat wiped out so pardon me if anything I say does not make a whole lot of sense.

    I spent the last couple of hours before bed last night sending out requests for quotes to the six area auto dealers that have websites. There is a seventh, but it is in Lawrence which for those not around here is about 30 miles from the greater Kansas City area and is actually about 60 miles from my house.

    I made it abdundantly clear that I am serious about wanting the Echo equipped exactly the way I specified and I would take nothing less. I also made it quite clear that I was willing and able to wait on a factory order from Japan. Many of the websites promised 24 hour call backs so we will just see. I told them that 30 days would be a nice time frame as to the earliest I am able to buy.

    I do want to have the option of getting wider tires so I will need to tell them that I want alloy wheels. Would someone explain why I need alloy wheels to have wider tires?

    Danny, if you want a wild time, Kansas City may be it more than people realize. Sometime I think we are Vegas East. We have four riverboats really close together and another one in St. Joseph which is about an hour from my house. We also have two "juice bars" as well as several gentlemen's clubs. I have been to the four casinos here, but have never been to the St. Joe casino or the other "attractions." Just let me know when you are coming, what you like to do, and I will see what I can suggest for you.

    Moses,things sure must have changed at Superior since I was there last with my friend. They had no problem giving her an offer on her possible trade-in and they did not make her state that she was very committed to buying from them. In the future, never go alone to a car dealer unless you absolutely cannot help it. I will be taking my roommate although she has absolutely no say and no control over what I am buying. Remember there is strength in numbers. I know how I need her to act and what to say so I am going to coach her on this. Unfortunately, I do not believe the salesman around here are as nice as Cliffy1.

    Cliffy1, what would it take to get you to move to our area? LOL.

    As much as I hate to, I better end this because I still have to haul the laundry in from the car. I have a washer, but no dryer so I go down and do my laundry at my mother's house.
  • Options
    kristi4kristi4 Member Posts: 13
    I think I missed 2 days on the computer....and there are about 70 new posts....what I meant way back there was...you said it was not very Christian of her to blah blah...assuming she was a Christian. Than I pointed out I never knew any Christians, until I moved here, in my first 28 years of life, I met about 5 total. I can't understand why so many Christians think EVERYONE is like them, a Christian....(reference to "her" is babyboomers post about the Focus)
  • Options
    kristi4kristi4 Member Posts: 13
    your mom lives an hour and 15 minutes away, and you take your clothes over there to wash them? Do you have any laundromats? ...........I'm kidding
  • Options
    forgetmenot2forgetmenot2 Member Posts: 7
    Geez, I haven`t gotten on here sence Fri. and their are 64 new responces sence then (7 over at Focus)
    Azecho-----"he drove the car" LOL, that`s the funniest thing I ever heard of! hee, hee,.
    toy tech--will sure be nice to have you here,th`ks. been fun reading what you have to say.
    Mong1- you sure are nice to do the legwork for folks wanting to know the 20/20 thing. Tk`s.
    echoluvrst--- I remember about 20 years ago I went into a Honda place. I really wanted to buy a Honda but the salesman wouldn`t even give me any price unless I sighed a piece of paper and my Dad had said to sigh nothing so I had to walk. I probably would have gotten one right then and their and he probably would have made alot but I just couldn`t sign as I din`t have a clue what I was signing for. I went ove to the Chevy place and bought. I`ve allways paid cash and not wheeled and dealed to much at all as I don`t know how too. Hey I still love my ECHO, got 600 on so far.
  • Options
    wrgrahamwrgraham Member Posts: 112
    In the last few days there have been some posts about the light weight of the Echo. I really welcomed the light weight, and it is part of why I wanted to buy this car. When I was a teenager I had a VW bug and it weighed 1600. Later I had a Datsun 510 and it was a good car too, and weighed much the same as an Echo.
    If I want to run to the store it seems so wrong to have 3000 pounds of machine burning gasoline to get my 175 pounds over there. I like a motorcycle but it's hard to carry much and they are no fun when the weather is bad. Anyway, even at 2000 lbs. the Echo is a lot. But it runs so effortlessly and smoothly that it feels good, not unduly wasteful.
    If most of your driving is on high speed freeways then maybe stability and weight are important, and maybe the Echo is not your best choice. But for me it is just right. And I love the quick handling that comes with a light and responsive car.
  • Options
    wrgrahamwrgraham Member Posts: 112
    I just looked at a few of my old registration tags from cars I have owned. My 70 datsun pickup has a listed weight of 2240. My 72 corolla 4 door sedan had a weight of 2060. My 81 Honda Accord hatchback is listed as 2250. I think that cars have just gotten too heavy over the years.
  • Options
    tickbittytickbitty Member Posts: 250
    I'm glad, personally. I owned 2 isuzu trucks, one was a 1985 (the same as a chevy LUV)and the other a 1990. The 1985 had paper thin steel and was rusting thru the wheel wells in 4 years (and I don't live at the beach) The 1990 was way more solid and strong with galvanized coating. I bet the 1985 was lighter, but at what price?! We were selling some crappy steel to the japanese those days. Both engines in both trucks were pretty much junk.
  • Options
    cwo4cwo4 Member Posts: 90
    My first new car was a 65 VW bug (payments were $35 a month). It lasted until '72 when it caught fire. It was a light weight and was buffeted by big trucks. I've had my ECHO for 2 1/2 months now and have over 10,000 miles from visiting kids and grand kids. I cruise 70-75 (the VW did 68 tops) and have never been buffeted to the point of feeling unstable. I've driven in heavy rain, gusty wind and even a hail storm. My only worry is the steel. I DO live on the beach, 110 steps from the porch to the beach, to be exact. I use an automatic car wash with it's wax weekly. I hope this will be enough. Anyone knowledgeable about Japanese steel, you thought would be appreciated. All in all, I'm enjoying this car more than I have any car in years.
  • Options
    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I actually haven't gone anywhere. This topic is just too busy to keep up with sometimes.

    I'm glad our configurator worked out well. I don't know what they are talking about with two different spoilers unless Southeast Toyota is offering one.

    If you had made a price inquiry to our web site, it would have gone to my partner here in the Internet Department. We can sell cars across the country but it would not make much sense on an ECHO. The shipping costs would override any savings you would realize.
  • Options
    tickbittytickbitty Member Posts: 250
    did it catch fire from the battery under the seat? THat's what my friend's did!
  • Options
    wmnfolkwmnfolk Member Posts: 2
    Hey! Can someone tell me if black primer is normal? One of the reasons I chose silver over black was because I was afraid small chips in the black would let light primer through! Everyone warned me, even my carsdirect.com guy: 'Black shows every scratch, hard to take care of...etc'

    Now I've got a little chip on the hood and noticed the primer is black! I would have gotten the Black Sand Pearl if I'd known that! Then the scratches wouldn't really show at all!

    Does the touch up paint work well? And is there some kind of thick wax or coating I can put on that will prevent these little rock chips on the hood?
  • Options
    sonatafansonatafan Member Posts: 171
    I have a black sand pearl Echo and chips on the hood show light colored gray primer....
  • Options
    wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    For the little chips and dings, you can get the touchup paint at your dealer for something like $5-$6 a small bottle. Enough to last a car's lifetime.

    Just make sure to copy the color code correctly off the label on the side of the door. It would suck to put on the wrong color (unless you are the hippy type). :)
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    Doing my laundry at my mother's means never airing my dirty laundry in public. : ) LOL.
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    I have gotten four email responses and one phone responses from my visiting the dealers' websites last night. All of the emails were of the nature of "we are doing all we can to ensure the best price for you." None gave me an actual quote and a couple asked for additional information! How can I give additional information when I think I gave all I can.

    One response said that in order to give me a more accurate quote, they would need to know things like trade in, method of financing, and down payment. Excuse me? How will that affect the bottom line of what you want to charge me for the car? I am definitely not going to give them those details until I am darn well ready.

    Cliffy, if I ordered the Echo from an out of state dealer, I would not have them ship the car to me. I would fly out and pick up the car there. Actually, not a bad idea. Beware a person who has too much time and money on his hands. LOL.
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    I see what you mean about my possibly wrongly assuming Babyboomer was a Christian. BB could be a Buddist for all I know.
  • Options
    azechoazecho Member Posts: 12
    I am glad you got a laugh! I figured someone had to have... Who ever thought of someone buying a car they never got to drive...It was a stick, I think my daughter scrunched her nose at it... but did he bother to ask if Mom knew how to drive it NOOOO! (It was a stick that I drove when my breaks were really bad...) He probably stereo-typed us.. two blondes what do they know? LOL Maybe that is why I did the extreme testing when the salesman let us both drive...God Bless him....had him hanging on and he was trying to do all the sales talk as I quickly stopped, turned quickly, tight immediate U-turn, backing quickly, them going forward... After that he deserved the sale. Remember... no matter what ??'s I've had about the weight... we bought the car based on the way it handled after I tested it.

    (wrgraham) thanks for the weight clue... I knew the Echo felt as light as my 73 corolla... Boy, do I have a story about that one!
  • Options
    jlb43jlb43 Member Posts: 5
    thanks danny28 for your thoughtful comments. You make perfect sense. sometimes i feel like there is some kind of arms race out there, but it makes me angry that we should all have to buy fossil-fuel depleting and airpolluting vehicles that cost a fortune just to keep up with everyone else!
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    You're welcome. I see that you're from NYC. I understand why you're concerned about snow. By the way, the Echo is supposedly the only compact car (defined by interior volume) with subcompact exterior dimensions. If I lived in NYC and was buying, one thing I'd compare is width. I think the Echo is quite narrow on the outside. It feels that way anyway when I'm driving. The only car since my Mini I can roll down the passenger window without putting my back out, or even undoing my seat belt. It also seems to fit through really small spaces in traffic jams.
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    BTW I wasn't kidding about the oil crisis. I saw a graph in "Popular Science" early this year put out by the oil producers association. It looked legit. Basically it said they're predicting oil consumption to keep growing for another 10 years only, then we run into serious supply problems. Apparently the new discoveries just aren't keeping up with the growth in consumption. It reminded me of a book I read in the 70's called "The limits to growth" that predicted that oil would run out in 50 years. I think it was written in the 60's so they weren't far off.

    It amazes me how people can keep buying big SUVs. my wife and I try to walk or cycle to the store as much as possible for our health as much as anything. We still drive more than I'd like but at least we're only dragging one ton, not 2, and the Echo engine is as efficient as they come.

    Did you know that the Honda Hybrid vehicle won't do much better in gas mileage on the freeway than the Echo? I read a road test that said in order to cruise at 70 mph the tester had to slow down every so often to recharge the battery because the gas engine didn't have enough power to sustain 70 by itself. In other words they had to supplement it with electric power. So they only got 45 mpg, not the 70mpg they brag about.

    Neat huh!
  • Options
    lynnann1lynnann1 Member Posts: 85
    Sorry to disappoint you, but this is mostly yesterday's news. In fact, I have noticed that a lot of reviewers and others who dislike the ECHO, use this article as the gospel truth to verify their extreme dislike of our wonderful little car.
  • Options
    lynnann1lynnann1 Member Posts: 85
    I have a silver ECHO and my primer is black. Perhaps the primer color has something to do with how the primary color looks.

    I love doing u-turns in my car. It's so neat to be able to do a tight turn and stay within a lane. Watch the SUV behind me and they go all the way over to the shoulder. Although has anyone noticed how badly people drive their cars these days? I can't tell you how many people making right turns in small car do the "wide-right-turn" thing where it's totally unnecessary. I mean I can make tighter turns in my minivan than I've seen people make in their compact cars.
  • Options
    tickbittytickbitty Member Posts: 250
    I totally respect your right to your own opinion on the focus, but I feel the need to point out that there is not even a tiny speck of chrome plated plastic in the entire interior, of mine, anyway.
  • Options
    djmick2djmick2 Member Posts: 9
    I apologize for my newbie mistake. Ill try to pay more attention next time.btw ive finally got a deal i hope this sound like a good one 2001 echo auto with air,3 way six speaker cd radio and cassette,60/40 seats,with matts rear window defogger, and the vin number on all the windows(huh?)all for the price of (drum roll please.)13500 plus TT&L and after a week of shopping around 100 dollar a month full coverage ins does that sound good? any and all suggestions are much appreciated thanks echonians for your help in advance.
  • Options
    babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Anyone have withdrawal pains?
  • Options
    cwo4cwo4 Member Posts: 90
    Nope, no withdrawl pains, although I was checking every 6 hours to see if it was back.
  • Options
    lynnann1lynnann1 Member Posts: 85
    That's okay, we all make mistakes. :)

    Price sounds good to me. For my 2000, I paid 13,200 before they added on all the taxes and other junk and mine came with everything yours does except the split seat.

    Glad we're back!!
  • Options
    mong1mong1 Member Posts: 32
    Ok, I placed my order of 2001 Seafoam Blue Echo last saturday, the dealer said they are going to order it from the manufacturer on Monday, I was told that it will take about 4 to 6 weeks to get my Echo.

    On Tuesday, the dealer called me, she told me that it will take 3 months to get my Echo.... which is January 2001!!! (It will be damn snowy at that time, besides my present car seems can't take it anymore)

    I'm wondering does it really take that long to import a car? I'm ordering a compact car and not a tank! I was told that it takes about 2 days to build the car, then may be 2 weeks to ship... so they estimated the worse, told me 4 to 6 weeks.

    Now, they have a Gray Echo that fit my requirement and ready to go. They were try to sell that to me, do you think they told me that it take 3 months to get the Seafoam Blue because they want to get rit of the Gray Echo in their lot or what?

    Does anyone have experience of special order a car or some one work in Toyota dealership? How long should we wait? They are convincing me to get the Gray one, which I don't want as the last time I saw it, it was dusty and dirty, I'm sure it has been used for demo and test drive, and been abused.
  • Options
    tickbittytickbitty Member Posts: 250
    See if you can get that dealership to trade with another dealership for a blue one with similar options. Most dealerships do that kind of thing pretty often. Special ordering does take a while because you have to get in the back of the line. Try to find an acceptable one in existence first, but if you just can't, be prepared to wait.
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    I looked for the road test from hell and found one at http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2000/February/200002_roadtest_toyota_echo.xml
    which sounded quite fair to me. Is this the same one you saw ?
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    Sorry if I erred in my comments about the Focus interior. I haven't actually seen one since May when I was out shopping, so my comments were really more about the impression I was left with after doing my comparison shopping, rather than a "description" of the interior.

    I also forgot that there are Focus owners out there who read this chat line, so my comments were being addressed to Echo owners and potential Echo owners. On hindsight I could have chosen my words better ;)

    By the way, I came very close to buying a Focus. I really liked the side air bags and the rear seat headroom. I also like the wheels and the exterior styling in general.
  • Options
    tickbittytickbitty Member Posts: 250
    Don't worry about it - this IS the echo forum! although a focus ZX3 owner, I actually like the echo a lot, just wish they had offered the hatchback here. I think the cars have a similar appeal.
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    You must be about my vintage. My first "brand new" car was a 1970 Mini. I paid $1600 cash and bought it right of the showroom floor. I really loved that car, but I think the Echo is better in every respect.

    I too am concerned about rust. I have owned 3 Toyota prior to this and found that they didn't last any better than any other make I had with respect to rust. Since I live in Winnipeg and we get a lot of slush in the spring, I've found that all my cars rust out before they wear out. When I asked the salesman he said:
    1) All the car manufacturers have stopped using recycled steel like they did in the 80's, which was prone to rust due to it's many additional impurities.
    2) He also showed me this technical paper on the Echo which talked about all the stuff they do to control rust including special paint in the critical areas. Anyway it sounded good enough to me.

    I agree with your washing program. I've found on my cars that rust usually starts on the outside at paint chips or defects and goes in. It rarely starts inside the body panels. As a precaution i bought a package of 1" wide body side moulding and installed it on both sides at the widest part, to help protect the body from car doors in parking lots.

    My wife (and my old F150) have also trained me to park out at the back of the shopping mall lots in "Truckland" where there's usually more room. She said that driving around and around to find the closest possible spot was a "boy thing", that most women don't do. On reflection I think she was right. We both feel that the extra walk is good for us.
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    Time for an update. On a recent highway trip I was really pleased to find out how well the SCS cruise control works on hills. It seems to stay bang on the set speed on both uphill and downhill grades. Not that we have a lot of hills in Manitoba, but it worked well on the ones I encountered.

    A caution to anyone purchasing this unit. When mine was first installed, the throttle stuck open slightly on my test drive. Upon inspection, i found that the cruise actuator cable was interfering with a little flat knob on the plastic Toyota throttle arm (circle ? circular arm? I'm not sure of the correct term) Anyway it's the the moulded part that the Toyota cable actuates and rotates on the throttle butterfly axle.

    I think that this bump is there for the AC idle speedup solenoid to press on. It's not functional in my Echo (no AC).

    Anyway it was easy for the guy to bend the SCS control arm slightly away from the engine so there was no more interference. He also swapped the nut and bolt on the end of the SCS control arm at my request to improve the clearance with the fan shroud. It now works great !
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    Are you there ? Did you see my question about headlamp aiming ?
  • Options
    cwo4cwo4 Member Posts: 90
    Thanks for the rust info.
  • Options
    toytechtoytech Member Posts: 7
    Hi Danny, just got back on this systems tonight. Stopped looking in for a few days as the site was down. As to your question on headlamp aiming.To the outside of the bulb at the back of the housing you will see a small plastic gear encased within the housing itself. This is the vertical adjustment. To use this adjustment you would use a long <8 to 10 inches> very thin blade flat screw driver to turn the gear. Using the edge of the case as a fulcrum and turning the gear will give you the adjustment vertically. Turn the gear slowly as it can be damaged easily with too much torgue and the wrong width screwdriver. Horizontal adjustment is accomplished via the adjustment knob that I think you are speaking of. Keep in mind that it doesn't take alot to put things too far out of wack. Hope this wasn't too confusing. Let me know if I can help with any thing else.
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    I thought that time frame they gave you was too optimistic. If you want the Seafoam Blue, I think you are going to have to wait. I do not think the dealer will be able to trade for one as I do not think there are any in the area. Sorry. You will have to decide what is important to you. I am sorry I was not able to reply sooner, but with Edmunds townhall being down and all. : (

    I had one dealer tell me that I can have an Echo the way I want it from the factory in 6 to 8 weeks while all the other dealers are telling me 4 to 6 months. I believe the other dealers.

    To refresh everyone's memory, I want a 2001 Sedan with manual transmission, upgrade packages 1 and 2, the all weather package, ABS, side impact air bags, rear spoiler, cargo net, floor mats, and alloy wheels. I want it in Black Sand Pearl.

    The dealer who told me 6 to 8 weeks quoted me a price of $15,109. Another dealer quoted me a price of $14,740. Another dealer quoted me a price of $14,400. These are all drive away prices. In other words, their final answer with no other hidden charges. Only taxes, tags, and title are extra. I have told the two higher dealers about the lowest offer, but what price should I counter offer the lowest dealer with.

    Given what I want on the car, would they all laugh me out of the room if I offered $13,500?

    Personally, I was having withdrawls because while I may not like Edmunds itself, I do like talking to you guys.

    My roommate is on the way home and has promised me a night at the casino so it is goodbye for now.
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    What price are they asking on the gray one? If it is a demo car, there is no way they should be expecting you to pay the same as for a factory fresh one.
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    Thanks a lot. Your descriptions are excellent. I'll try this at the first opportunity. Thanks also for the cautions. I'm sure the delicate nature of the parts explains why Toyota recommend going to a dealer.
  • Options
    thooverthoover Member Posts: 49
    Anybody know if there are nice molded mud flaps that fit the Echo with the body cladding?

    Our Echo is great, we love it, 39.5MPG average to date (about 6000 miles). Some doofus gave it a door-ding about a week ago though, which was a bummer.

    By the way, what did they take town hall down for? The message board itself looks unchanged to me...
  • Options
    bylleebyllee Member Posts: 3
    I found out the other night that the Echo has a
    headlight on alarm in addition to the key in ignition alarm which my old Toyota Corolla didn't have. Toyota always seems to provide you with what
    you need and not what you don't. I bought the car with 5 spd. air and ps only which gives it an excellent price to value ratio.
  • Options
    bklynboybklynboy Member Posts: 16
    I want the ABS(I think), but not the sport body cladding. The dealer I went to said that they could special order a car with this configuration from the factory, and would take about 45-60 days. I see above that 4-6 months was also given as a figure. Anybody have experience with this?

    Also - any ideas about financing? This will be my first car, and I am clueless. Dealer? Bank? Thanks to all for any help.
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    Given my own experience (and Moses'), I really think anyone telling you anything less than four months is being unrealistic. The only factory for US sold models is in Japan after all. Perhaps Cliffy1 can shed some light on what he thinks is a realistic time frame. Or perhaps Dianne.

    As to financing, you should check around. Generally, banks will require you to pay a 20% down payment on the car and loan you the rest. The dealership may be able to get you a deal that has less money down, but the rate may be higher so the two things combined mean a higher monthly payment.

    Then there is leasing which is only smart if you like getting a new car every few years and do not drive very many miles a year. You also need to be very concerned with the overall condition of the car because you will be giving it back to the dealer at the end of the lease term.

    If you do a lease, do not focus on the monthly payments. The bottom line should be on the price of the car. After that is set, concentrate on changing the monthly payment if you are able.

    I hope this helps.
  • Options
    babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Saw the first (for me) print ad for an
    Echo in newspaper last week. "Two door 2000
    Echo for $11,790, MSRP $12,600 WS Disc $810,
    1 at this price Stk#4721." Jacksonville, Fla
    Times, Oct 31, 00.
  • Options
    bklynboybklynboy Member Posts: 16
    Thanks, echoluvrst. I may just bag the idea of ABS, or learn to love the sports body cladding.
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    Bklynboy, glad I could help. That is what this part of Edmunds is for. People helping people.

    One of the options I want on my Echo is the side impact air bags. MelodyEcho has told me that she remembers reading something somewhere about there being a problem with side impact air bags on the Echo. Has anyone else read or heard this?

    One thing that I would like to have is a remote to unlock the doors. My '95 Windstar had it and it was very nice. Is this an option on the Echo and I am just not recognizing it? Perhaps it is part of the alarm system?

    As I posted a few posts ago, my roommate was coming home to take me to the casinos. If times like I had keep up, the casino may end up paying for the Echo. I won $100 playing nickel video poker. Together, we won another $50 playing another game and yet another $50 playing a third game. We left $50 of our own money at the casino. The $100 I won on poker went into my bank account.

    I have arranged to take off on December 12th to visit whatever dealer I will be buying the Echo from. After I finish whatever needs to be done that day, I am going to see if they will let me take a test drive (by myself) for a couple of hours. Weather permitting.

    I think it is time for bed. Night all.
  • Options
    danny28danny28 Member Posts: 158
    g'night Steve.
  • Options
    echoluvrstecholuvrst Member Posts: 111
    You still haven't said when you think you will be down. You do know that sometimes Kansas City can be colder than Alaska in the winter? You may want to make Kansas City a pit stop and head on for warmer climes. I would understand if you do.
Sign In or Register to comment.