Speaking of "little features" that Ford has taken away over the years, I remember that Lincolns used to have auto dimming headlights. There was a little "eye" mounted in front of the rearview mirror(about where the rainsense sensor is on our LSs) that would sense oncoming headlights and dim the lights. I think there was an intensity adjustment for it as well. Not sure how well it worked as I never had a car with it, but I always thought it was a nice idea.
Some were great, others were stupid. My dad had a 1959 Lincoln Premiere 4 door hard top. It had the auto dim feature as well as a foot operated switch for radio station selection. Another neat idea was an on board pressurized automatic lubrication system where a cartridge of grease was inserted and the car would automatically lube all suspension points from it. Those were the neat features - what was a disaster was for 59 & 60 Lincoln experimented with unit body construction on a 6600 lb car. There was no frame just a double wall floor holding the two halves together. One day with the original lacquer paint glistening in the sun, the car literally broke in two! We had to have it towed off to the scrap yard as there was nothing to attach any metal to. The floor had rusted out and down she went like the Titanic. So much for good ideas!
They were one of the most annoying features ever produced.
When on high beam, the reflection from road signs would trigger dimming, which caused the reflection to cease, which would cause switching to high beam, which would cause reflection & dimming, which would cause switching to high beam ... it was maddening!
My 92 Conti has the auto dim. I used it about 3 times and found it to be more of a pain than a useful feature. This is my winter beater and with all of the snow & road sign relections - the on/off thing is definitely annoying.
As for the Auto Wipers on the LS - it is my favorite, non-performance feature.
Slunar is the expert on this. I hope he's tuned in.
I'm curious: Your profile says that you're shopping for a BMW. Two comments on that: 1) I urge you to drive a Lincoln LS Sport before deciding. 2) I can probably save you several dollars with X-Plan purchase of the LS, and certainly make purchasing nearly hassle-free.
I have a BMW 325xi (needed/wanted the AWD option for mountain living). When we bought, AWD was a must. Lincoln didn't have that.
We are looking for a sporty sedan to compliment the xi. I was looking at the 5 Series, but my wife chopped that idea after seeing the 2004's. I kinda like em. Anyway, we've driving the LS V8 and we love it. The feature set is complete enough for us (she'd probably want a V6, I want the Premium Sport hehe).
But now with us having that car and Jeep, our AWD and hauling stuff to ski needs have been met. We want a sport sedan that handles well, but will be wonderful on the long hauls you have to make around here in soCal.
What is the X-Plan? I've heard it mentioned here, but was hesitant to ask.
is special discounted pricing made available to certain groups. It's roughly dealer invoice plus $200, plus the dealer is not allowed to add any fees. It's a nice, no haggle price.
Employees of Ford suppliers and partners get X plan. In addition each Ford employee gets a certain number of X plan pins to pass out to friends and family.
I had that feature on both of my Continentals, guy, and although it was cute as hell, it also was horribly ineffective. It had a sensitivity switch that you could adjust for the brightness of the surroundings, or oncoming traffic. Well, that would work fine, if nothing changed, but you know, when you're traveling at 60 MPH, EVERYTHING changes all the time! I was either blinding oncoming traffic because it would dim too late, getting the headlights from the oncomer which would dim mine, or streetsign reflections would dimming them. Frankly, they were useless to dangerous, and it's no wonder they were deleted. Cute, as I said, but not practical.
Thats pretty much what I've heard other people say about the auto dimming lights. It does seem more like a gimmick than a really good feature. Kind of like the power trunk pull-down feature that Cadillac and Lincoln used to offer. Again, a cute feature and maybe helpful on a car like the Town Car which has a huge trunk lid, but every grocery store courtesy clerk would slam the heck out of them thinking it was a regular trunk.
Speaking of automatic features, to those with 03 and 04 LSs, do the auto lamps still have a delay-out feature and can you adjust the time delay? 00-02s let you do this by turning the knob counter clockwise, but I've noticed that newer models just have a position for autolamps.
I have them in my Jeep and in my BMW (cold weather package).
The X-plan sounds good to me.
I know a V6 is probably enough, but I want the HP and the extra torque. Plus I want the THX and navigation. I didn't think that was available on the V6...
>>>Speaking of automatic features, to those with 03 and 04 LSs, do the auto lamps still have a delay-out feature and can you adjust the time delay? 00-02s let you do this by turning the knob counter clockwise, but I've noticed that newer models just have a position for autolamps.
Yes, they still do. The feature is now programable through a procedure described in the OM. I have mine set for one minute, forty-five seconds. I like the new arrangement much better because when activating/deactivating the fog lamps you don't mess with your autolamp timing delay as with the old rotary setting.
My last two cars have had the Denso/NavTech navigation system. I consider it so valuable that I won't consider replacing my main car with a vehicle that doesn't have it.
MUCH more than a gadget; safer and less distracting than paper maps (if used properly).
Once you've decided to purchase a Ford or Lincoln/Mercury product, send me an email, & I'll get an X-Plan PIN for you.
Where in SoCal? I have to recommend Witt Lincoln/Mercury in either Escondido or Mission Valley. They have a great salesman there, and I'd be happy to give you his name, if you're interested. I saw a 2004 V8 (non-nav, though) yesterday for $33.9! Sticker was over $40K.
Funny you should mention the San Diego area. I'm currently up at Edwards AFB (Tehachapi actually). I've been considering a move to SD and have looked at Mission Valley, Escondido, and Carlsbad.
Bring lots of $$$$$$$. Houses are going for ~$200+ sq ft! Escondido would be the less expensive of your listed options. Shoot me an email at ezaircon4jc@earthlink.net and I can help with which areas to avoid!
I have reserved an LS at the Phoenix Airport for next week and will be driving it to Palm Desert and then down to Rancho Bernardo. I hope I get an '04. Hertz usually has the latest models. I can hardly wait to compare it to my former 2000 model. I will probably fall in love all over again!
The Hertz LS models I've driven are usually the V-8 versions, but not the sport. So take into account that you're not getting the top o line model probably. Please do post your observations for us though.
Not to me, I prefer the non-sport edition for a lot of reasons. I was not aware of this new limitation. That's a shame. I guess this is Lincoln's way of forcing me to move to Lexus or Jaguar.
I'll echo the statements about auto-dim and the power decklid pulldown; had 'em both on my '90 Mark 7 LSC, and both were worthless. The dimmer system never worked as it should have, i.e. as *I* would manually dim the lamps. The power trunk was just silly; I'm still surprised that mine still worked when I got rid of the car after 4 years.
Also agree concerning the rain-sensing wipers--they're a great feature, and whoever decided to ditch them certainly didn't ask MY opinion. Ah, well; they probably won't bring back cornering lamps, either...
Funny you mentioned cornering lamps. My Intrigue had them and they are one of the few things that my LS lacks that my other car had. You really get used to them and don't realize how much they helped until you drive a car without them.
Bring lots of $$$$$$$. Houses are going for ~$200+ sq ft! Escondido would be the less expensive of your listed options. Shoot me an email at ezaircon4jc@earthlink.net and I can help with which areas to avoid!
>>>Funny you should mention the San Diego area. I'm currently up at Edwards AFB (Tehachapi actually). I've been considering a move to SD and have looked at Mission Valley, Escondido, and Carlsbad.
Drive down to Bakersfield and go to Jim Burke L-M in the Automall. I can recommend a great salesperson there. I've known him for 15 years and leased both my LSes from him. Email me if you'd like details: mrgdr@att.net
I guess this is a preference thing. I has my LS at the dealer for a few days and they loaned me a Grand Marquis ( I think it was an '03) that had the cornering lamps and I thought that that was one of those useless options. When making a left turn, the A pillar and side view mirror block most of the lit up area and when turning right the front right fender kind of blocks most of that. Not sure what it lights up that you can see anyway. I'm glad the LS doesn't have them. I don't associate them with a sporty car but rather with a large luxury cruiser. Does the town car have them?
I was thinking if I pull the trigger on an LS, I'd deal with JB in B-field or Shuttle LM in Lancaster. Lancaster is closer to where I work, but I've heard decent things about JB.
I'm one of those oddballs who likes a little trim, a little chrome a little wood trim (or even plood trim) here and there to break up the plastic monotony. (One of the reasons I don't care for GM interiors much, too depressing). I also think the LS non-sport is plenty competent at handling and ride. My gosh, it will do any James Bond trick I would dare to try! Handles just great. But, I would want the V-8.
So, if they have paired the V-8 to the sport trim package, we have a problem, Dearborn......
It's just how I am. Remember, I drove a Continental from 90-96, and Navigators since 99. I like Luxury.
Ok, I've scanned through the last couple thousand messages and have a few questions for the board.
First we are very close to getting the 2003 LS V8 Sport with Nav,HID,Heated FR seats,moonroof,etc. MSRP 46880, we have an accepted offer of 35880.
I love the car, but we have been beat by the luck Gods with our last 3 car purchases (none of them Lincolns), and am a bit edgy buying another car, but we’re down to one and need another.
We had the paperwork filled out and was looking the car over and noticed the HID lens covers were fogged. I’ve read the posts about new replacement assemblies, however the service department said it was normal and they did not need to be replaced, so we walked.
Also, during the test drive (100 miles) we got the “Service Emergency Brake” warning message and light. It went away after turning the car off and on.
These seemingly “little” things are holding us back from purchasing the car since we are concerned it is the tip of the iceberg type of thing. But I think we would be hard pressed to find a car with comparable features/styling for anywhere close. Here in lines the dilemma.
Ok to the questions:
Can anyone tell me what changed with Job Order #2 other than the $160.00 price difference? There are two available; one Job 1 and the other Job 2 orders.
Is condensation on the HID lens covers NORMAL?
Should I be concerned with the brake-warning message?
Is this a good deal? It seems others have gotten the same (11k off MSRP) a few months ago.
I drive approx. 100miles on my daily commute, and this car would be the commuter vehicle. Should I be overly concerned about reliability under this circumstance? And I realize luck has a part in this.
They are both Silver Birch. Has anyone had any problems with the silver paint?
You scare me, because folks like you (it's not your fault mind you) are impossible to please because of your innate sensitivity. Every little thing is going to be a crisis. These are machines, and it's a miracle they work at all, yet you expect perfection.
Having said that, and probably offended the hell out of you, (I'm sorry), you haven't scared me off this car yet. There are so many microprocessors on these cars, you occasionally get a fault that turns on a light, from a voltage surge. If it resets by turning the car off and on, the system is working normally. If it stays on, you have a problem. If it happens once in a while, don't sweat it. That is one slick E-brake, by the way, and I wish I had one. I love it.
The headlight covers are another matter. Fogged covers are not normal in my world. That I would want fixed, but it wouldn't stop me from buying, it's cosmetic only. Perhaps they were put on in a very humid environment, and it's cold now where you are. Whatever, that's easy.
You should have no problem with any color paint.
Yes, sounds like a fantastic deal.
The LS has a cult following unlike many other cars for a reason. It's a remarkable car for the money. Are they all perfect machines? NO, But they're damn good cars, and an occasional glitch will be worth the 100 miles per day of sheer bliss driving it on a commute. There's not a car around I enjoy driving more.
is an exceptionally reliable vehicle based on my personal experience and the experience of other people I know. The brake warning message is an easy thing to fix by replacing the defective component. I have heard of a few people that have had this problem and it was easily fixed.
Fogged headlights were an issue in the 02s, but I thought it was resolved in the 03s. The assembly would either need to be resealed or replaced.
The LS is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. I know several people with 100K+ on them and they are still very happy with them.
One of the potential problems is dealer service. There are dealers that offer fabulous service and those that have awful service. You are not required to have the vehicle serviced by the dealer you purchase it from.
...You scare me, because folks like you (it's not your fault mind you) are impossible to please because of your innate sensitivity...
You haven't offended me. But then again you may not have experienced the vehicle pain I have either, so my "innate sensitivity", IMO is justified. I realize they are machines and things break. I'm not talking about a couple trips extra a year to the service department. I had a Audi A6 that I had in the shop once or twice a month, 16k and 12 trips to the dealer. And thats just one of the problem vehicles I've owned in the last 3 years. Sure everything was covered under warranty and loaners provided, but oil seals replaced twice in 6000 miles, secondary water pump failing, and the day after picking it up from that fix a fuel injector failed and had to have it towed to the dealer. This is only a few of the prolems, so I guess my experiences have given me an "innate sensitivity" to problems in cars. I drive a lot and need reliable transportation, but also want to be comfortable. Taking the car to the dealer a couple times a month adds many hours to my already busy day/life.
I actually looked at the A6 when I bought my LS. One of the main reasons I picked the LS over the A6 was reliability. While I can't comment on the A6 since I never purchased it, the LS is a very reliable vehicle. I sincerely believe it will have many fewer problems than most of the alternatives out there. Not only that, the support that I have seen from Lincoln engineers is absolutely fantanstic. If you come across a difficult problem, they are ready and willing to help.
As I recently posted here, I bought a ’03 LS – a couple of weeks ago. Since I am a single car family (!?) the reliability issue is certainly something I am interested in. My research indicates that it is likely to be at least as reliable as my Y2K LS8 Sport. It never left me stranded, in 40,000 miles or so . . . Consumer Reports even recently upgraded their reliability rating (to average), and now classifies the LS as ‘Recommended’. (I think that I saw in another post that you have owned an Audi A6 – a wonderful vehicle in many respects, but less than a paragon of reliability. CR rates the A6 as ‘Below Average’.) Interesting to me that the 2003 has enough differences (primarily enhancements) to be discernibly different in many respects, yet retains the basic build process and procedures where etc. so that incremental improvements vs. the Y2K model year are possible as well.
OTOH, the depreciation is an issue. My view is that the combination of a substantial discount with $6,000 additional cash back from the Factory, addresses this adequately - for me. YMMV.
Looking at (for instance) the actual OTD purchase prices of BMWs (5 and 3 series) and comparable Audis leads my to believe that the ’03 LS8 Sport – at this price – is a screaming bargain. But that’s just me – and I always reserve the right to be wrong . . .
Can’t address the HID fog (some might say I am often in a fog, myself) as I don’t have them on my new LS - but the ones on my previous car never fogged. Any other ‘03s or ‘04s on the lot with fogged lights? Without? Work a swap as part of the deal?
Just my $.02 - Ray
Enjoying every heterodyne beat of that lovely exhaust note . . .
I had a similar concern, but my issue was with ride quality (harshness) of the Sport. I bought the Sport because I like the content, particularly SST transmission, but disliked the ride harshness so much that I replaced the tires/wheeel with 16", and replaced the shock absorbers with base V8 shocks. I now have a car I love.
I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker. Even if the dealer is sying it's normal, keep complaining and they should be replaced under warranty. If that dealer won't do it, try another. They shuold be willing since they are making something off of it. Price sounds good to me. My dealer is advertising an '03 sport $41.5K sticker for $32K.
Last night some new profile software was rolled out. There are problems and they are working on it. Hang in there, we have no intention of making everyone's email private.
Like many I'm on my second LS and currently wouldn't consider another car. Where else can you find a car that will coax you into a 1400 mile drive when you basically planned on a couple of hundred miles. I drive the snot of of mine, have autocrossed it and wouldn't think twice about heading from dallas to LA tomorrow in it. It truly is the bargain of the century. Had Lincoln not transferred the original die hards to marketing SUV's or Focus the car would have a much better following. We met the director of this vehicle platform at our big meet back in July. The LS has been lumped into the small car platform with the Mustang and Focus and to her it's 4 wheels that statistically will have a female driver buying a V6 and a male driver buying a V8. So much for passion and fire in the belly! Ride along with the chief engineer for a few laps in an LS and you'll see what this car was originally designed to accomplish.
Comments
My dad had a 1959 Lincoln Premiere 4 door hard top. It had the auto dim feature as well as a foot operated switch for radio station selection. Another neat idea was an on board pressurized automatic lubrication system where a cartridge of grease was inserted and the car would automatically lube all suspension points from it.
Those were the neat features - what was a disaster was for 59 & 60 Lincoln experimented with unit body construction on a 6600 lb car. There was no frame just a double wall floor holding the two halves together.
One day with the original lacquer paint glistening in the sun, the car literally broke in two! We had to have it towed off to the scrap yard as there was nothing to attach any metal to. The floor had rusted out and down she went like the Titanic.
So much for good ideas!
When on high beam, the reflection from road signs would trigger dimming, which caused the reflection to cease, which would cause switching to high beam, which would cause reflection & dimming, which would cause switching to high beam ... it was maddening!
As for the Auto Wipers on the LS - it is my favorite, non-performance feature.
-Paul
Slunar is the expert on this. I hope he's tuned in.
I'm curious: Your profile says that you're shopping for a BMW. Two comments on that: 1) I urge you to drive a Lincoln LS Sport before deciding. 2) I can probably save you several dollars with X-Plan purchase of the LS, and certainly make purchasing nearly hassle-free.
I have a BMW 325xi (needed/wanted the AWD option for mountain living). When we bought, AWD was a must. Lincoln didn't have that.
We are looking for a sporty sedan to compliment the xi. I was looking at the 5 Series, but my wife chopped that idea after seeing the 2004's. I kinda like em.
But now with us having that car and Jeep, our AWD and hauling stuff to ski needs have been met. We want a sport sedan that handles well, but will be wonderful on the long hauls you have to make around here in soCal.
What is the X-Plan? I've heard it mentioned here, but was hesitant to ask.
-Paul
Employees of Ford suppliers and partners get X plan. In addition each Ford employee gets a certain number of X plan pins to pass out to friends and family.
The V6 is no slouch. Also, You/your wife may actually enjoy the ride & handling over the V8.
Speaking of automatic features, to those with 03 and 04 LSs, do the auto lamps still have a delay-out feature and can you adjust the time delay? 00-02s let you do this by turning the knob counter clockwise, but I've noticed that newer models just have a position for autolamps.
The X-plan sounds good to me.
I know a V6 is probably enough, but I want the HP and the extra torque.
-Paul
Yes, they still do. The feature is now programable through a procedure described in the OM. I have mine set for one minute, forty-five seconds. I like the new arrangement much better because when activating/deactivating the fog lamps you don't mess with your autolamp timing delay as with the old rotary setting.
My last two cars have had the Denso/NavTech navigation system. I consider it so valuable that I won't consider replacing my main car with a vehicle that doesn't have it.
MUCH more than a gadget; safer and less distracting than paper maps (if used properly).
Once you've decided to purchase a Ford or Lincoln/Mercury product, send me an email, & I'll get an X-Plan PIN for you.
Thanks for the pointers.
-Paul
-Paul
Also agree concerning the rain-sensing wipers--they're a great feature, and whoever decided to ditch them certainly didn't ask MY opinion.
Drive down to Bakersfield and go to Jim Burke L-M in the Automall. I can recommend a great salesperson there. I've known him for 15 years and leased both my LSes from him. Email me if you'd like details: mrgdr@att.net
What are your reasons for preferring the non-sport?
-Paul
-Paul
So, if they have paired the V-8 to the sport trim package, we have a problem, Dearborn......
It's just how I am. Remember, I drove a Continental from 90-96, and Navigators since 99. I like Luxury.
First we are very close to getting the 2003 LS V8 Sport with Nav,HID,Heated FR seats,moonroof,etc. MSRP 46880, we have an accepted offer of 35880.
I love the car, but we have been beat by the luck Gods with our last 3 car purchases (none of them Lincolns), and am a bit edgy buying another car, but we’re down to one and need another.
We had the paperwork filled out and was looking the car over and noticed the HID lens covers were fogged. I’ve read the posts about new replacement assemblies, however the service department said it was normal and they did not need to be replaced, so we walked.
Also, during the test drive (100 miles) we got the “Service Emergency Brake” warning message and light. It went away after turning the car off and on.
These seemingly “little” things are holding us back from purchasing the car since we are concerned it is the tip of the iceberg type of thing. But I think we would be hard pressed to find a car with comparable features/styling for anywhere close. Here in lines the dilemma.
Ok to the questions:
Can anyone tell me what changed with Job Order #2 other than the $160.00 price difference? There are two available; one Job 1 and the other Job 2 orders.
Is condensation on the HID lens covers NORMAL?
Should I be concerned with the brake-warning message?
Is this a good deal? It seems others have gotten the same (11k off MSRP) a few months ago.
I drive approx. 100miles on my daily commute, and this car would be the commuter vehicle. Should I be overly concerned about reliability under this circumstance? And I realize luck has a part in this.
They are both Silver Birch. Has anyone had any problems with the silver paint?
Thanks in advance for comments.
Having said that, and probably offended the hell out of you, (I'm sorry), you haven't scared me off this car yet. There are so many microprocessors on these cars, you occasionally get a fault that turns on a light, from a voltage surge. If it resets by turning the car off and on, the system is working normally. If it stays on, you have a problem. If it happens once in a while, don't sweat it. That is one slick E-brake, by the way, and I wish I had one. I love it.
The headlight covers are another matter. Fogged covers are not normal in my world. That I would want fixed, but it wouldn't stop me from buying, it's cosmetic only. Perhaps they were put on in a very humid environment, and it's cold now where you are. Whatever, that's easy.
You should have no problem with any color paint.
Yes, sounds like a fantastic deal.
The LS has a cult following unlike many other cars for a reason. It's a remarkable car for the money. Are they all perfect machines? NO, But they're damn good cars, and an occasional glitch will be worth the 100 miles per day of sheer bliss driving it on a commute. There's not a car around I enjoy driving more.
Fogged headlights were an issue in the 02s, but I thought it was resolved in the 03s. The assembly would either need to be resealed or replaced.
The LS is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. I know several people with 100K+ on them and they are still very happy with them.
One of the potential problems is dealer service. There are dealers that offer fabulous service and those that have awful service. You are not required to have the vehicle serviced by the dealer you purchase it from.
You haven't offended me. But then again you may not have experienced the vehicle pain I have either, so my "innate sensitivity", IMO is justified. I realize they are machines and things break. I'm not talking about a couple trips extra a year to the service department. I had a Audi A6 that I had in the shop once or twice a month, 16k and 12 trips to the dealer. And thats just one of the problem vehicles I've owned in the last 3 years. Sure everything was covered under warranty and loaners provided, but oil seals replaced twice in 6000 miles, secondary water pump failing, and the day after picking it up from that fix a fuel injector failed and had to have it towed to the dealer. This is only a few of the prolems, so I guess my experiences have given me an "innate sensitivity" to problems in cars. I drive a lot and need reliable transportation, but also want to be comfortable. Taking the car to the dealer a couple times a month adds many hours to my already busy day/life.
But thanks for the comments.
OTOH, the depreciation is an issue. My view is that the combination of a substantial discount with $6,000 additional cash back from the Factory, addresses this adequately - for me. YMMV.
Looking at (for instance) the actual OTD purchase prices of BMWs (5 and 3 series) and comparable Audis leads my to believe that the ’03 LS8 Sport – at this price – is a screaming bargain. But that’s just me – and I always reserve the right to be wrong . . .
Can’t address the HID fog (some might say I am often in a fog, myself) as I don’t have them on my new LS - but the ones on my previous car never fogged. Any other ‘03s or ‘04s on the lot with fogged lights? Without? Work a swap as part of the deal?
Just my $.02
- Ray
Enjoying every heterodyne beat of that lovely exhaust note . . .
Send me an email at gary4444@chartermi.net
Do it quickly before they delete this threatening message.
You will enjoy this car.
LOL, kidding.
Last night some new profile software was rolled out. There are problems and they are working on it. Hang in there, we have no intention of making everyone's email private.
It truly is the bargain of the century. Had Lincoln not transferred the original die hards to marketing SUV's or Focus the car would have a much better following. We met the director of this vehicle platform at our big meet back in July. The LS has been lumped into the small car platform with the Mustang and Focus and to her it's 4 wheels that statistically will have a female driver buying a V6 and a male driver buying a V8. So much for passion and fire in the belly! Ride along with the chief engineer for a few laps in an LS and you'll see what this car was originally designed to accomplish.