The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I think there's a difference in driving psychology between drivers on our interstate highways and German drivers on the autobahn.

    Here, its more of

    Anybody slower than you is an idiot. Anybody faster is a maniac.

    There, its more of

    Lets all just get to where we're going, and do it at a speed each of us is comfortable driving.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Ours also had the 390 with the 4BBL Carter carb that could never be tuned correctly resulting in 10 minutes and a flooded engine to start the car. If I remember correctly those cars came stock with nylon tires. No polyglas or radials and returned less than 10 mpg though gas was $.32 a gallon.

    With a steel dashboard and no whiplash protection I'd have to agree on the safety part. One thing it did well, it could carry ten cases of beer in the trunk. I'd like to see that done with any sedan today. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,603
    edited June 2013
    Ha, that's exactly the problem I remember with mine, the carb. Car would be hard to start, would flood out, sometimes letting out nice black smoke when finally started. Once running, it would be cold blooded for the first 10-15 mins or so, wanting to stall off the line or if given too much throttle. Ran fine once warm, other than the mileage. Sounded good too, and could unsafely seat 7-8 teenagers.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,603
    Period Fords liked to rust, that might have something to do with it. Never been seen as "cool" as Mopars and GMs probably didn't help either.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    True, today's sedans can't carry 10 cases of beer in the trunk. However, unlike yesterday's road warriors you can fold the back seats, for additional room.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited June 2013
    General Motors threw in a nice little gift for car buyers Thursday -- free maintenance program for two years or 24,000 miles on new 2014 Chevrolet, Buick or GMC cars, trucks or crossovers.

    Finally a Dividend
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2013
    Haven't they had a 5 year program for Cadillacs for a while now?
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    This sounds exactly like the LTD my grandparents had when I was growing up. It was a 1973 but still had to be "warmed up" before they could back it out the garage.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    This sounds exactly like the LTD my grandparents had when I was growing up. It was a 1973 but still had to be "warmed up" before they could back it out the garage.

    I have a friend whose Mom had a 1973 LTD hardtop coupe when he was a little kid. It stalled out constantly, was hard to start, left them stranded on occasion, etc. He and his brothers nicknamed it "Mommy's Hunk O'Junk"
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,603
    I don't miss those days with my Galaxie. Was especially annoying when I would drive to school - I couldn't just leave with everyone else, I had to let it "Warm up" or I'd stall 10 times in the first mile.

    My dad had a 60 Ford with a 352 and a 68 Ford with a 289 around the same time - I don't remember either having any similar issues. The 289 car ran sweetly, from what I remember.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Hah! Nothing could beat my mom's '70 Dodge Swinger with the famous 225 slant six.
    On bad starting days you'd have to pop the hood, remove the air filter cover, insert the hair brush I kept in the car specifically for holding the butterfly open. Jump back in the car and it would start in an instant. To think that dad had traded a '68 GTO for this hunk.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    Actually, I can relate to that, because I once owned a 1969 Dart GT with the slant six. I had a screwdriver I kept in the car to do just what you described!

    My Dart wasn't too bad though, for the most part. It seemed to get the most cranky on cold, damp days when temps were in the 40's or 50's. If it was warmer, or colder, it usually seemed to do better.

    One of my friends, who once owned a 1998 Tracker, had seen me do the screwdriver trick to start various cars. One day, his Tracker wouldn't start, and he asked me how to do it...unfortunately I had to tell him that you can't do that with modern cars.

    Back in 2005, I had taken my '76 LeMans to an all GM show in Carlisle, PA, and I remember there was a teenager there with a '66 or '67 LeMans, and it wouldn't start. I showed him the screwdriver trick, and it did manage to fire up.

    My '76 LeMans used to be pretty cranky, as well. I'd have to prop that butterfly valve at just the right angle for it to fire up. A couple years ago though, the mechanic finally got it sorted out, and now it runs about as good as you can hope for a car from that era.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Toyota finally decided to introduce a more modernized (but not too modernized) Corolla.

    http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/07/autos/new-toyota-corolla/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2013
    Trying to appeal to a younger crowd, or so the buzz goes. "A more daring look and standard LED headlights". An editor here tweeted that it "looks sad in the face. Like its robo-puppy just died or something." He wasn't crazy that the engine is a carryover either.

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,603
    AWD style wheel gaps, dual grille with a gaping maw, upkick at the C-pillar for character, and you can still get the 4-speed. The perfect car for non-car people. Job done.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Can't disagree, but maybe it'll look better in person.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    It looks like the spawn of an unholy three-way among a Hyundai, a Focus, and a VW.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2013
    A focus-group may have had a hand in it. The proof in the pudding will be whether they have to do a "Civic" mid-cycle redesign next year.

    "Customers emphasized the overwhelming importance of vehicle design on product perception in the marketplace," Toyota said. "The 11th generation Corolla makes a much stronger design statement, with more compelling exterior and interior executions that challenge the preconceptions about Corolla."

    2014 Toyota Corolla Takes Some Risks With Redesign

    If they manage to hit 40mpg, then the maw won't matter much.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I don't see the average Corolla buyer/owner as trying to make a fashion statement. Even Toyota uses terms like "reliable, economical, dependable" to describe the current model, in its commercials.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,603
    edited June 2013
    I suppose it couldn't make a weaker design statement than the past few generations of Corolla. Eventually, the only way you can go is up. No previous Corolla has needed a re-do, I bet this one won't either. It's not classic style, but it's not especially cheap (12 Civic) looking either. It's just enough to look "new" without scaring away the timid.

    It'll still sell by the millions and give plenty of people the perfect seat for yapping and texting while driving, merging onto a highway at 46mph, keeping a white knuckled death grip on the wheel at 55 in a 60, etc.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    I'll be curious to see what Toyota ends up doing to push the car to 40 mpg highway. The engine is the same carryover 1.8 with 132 hp, although I've heard the "tree hugger" version will get 140 hp.

    The current model is rated 26/34 with the 1.8/auto. Getting it to 40 mpg seems like a pretty big jump. I wonder if the mass-market version will see an increase in fuel economy?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agreed. Perfect appliance styling.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yes but now, everyone is in! That's a big move for the "New GM". Was not even at Caddy pre-bankruptcy.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Looks like the mpg bump is from lower CofD and the new CVT tranny.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    That free maintenance wouldn't sway me. I do maintenance before the manual says, and I bet they wouldn't pay if you came in with even 20% left on the oil monitor. Purely a guess on my part, not a hard fact (note that I'm identifying it as such).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Either that, or Toyota used the same team to determine mpg as Kia did...

    Hard for me to see how they could pick up 6 mpg hwy with a CVT, but then again, I'm not an automotive engineer.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Noted and documented! :blush:
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    So, what are we talking here.... At a maximum, 2 oil changes, and... What else?

    I don't own a GM at the moment, but anyone have access to a new GM car maintenance schedule? What does it say needs to be done?

    Not a whole lot of things to do on a modern car for the 1st couple of years or 24 K miles. Seems much more of a marketing ploy than anything of real substance...at least, to me.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    Not a whole lot of things to do on a modern car for the 1st couple of years or 24 K miles. Seems much more of a marketing ploy than anything of real substance...at least, to me.

    Me, too.

    Although, on the Equinox and Terrain 2.4's, they were saying now to get oil changes at 5K miles, so that would be just under four free oil changes.

    I own GM's and enjoy them, but I'd say 'la de freakin' da' to this promotion! LOL
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Also lower rolling resistance tires. :confuse:
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited June 2013
    Could be, but increasing mpg by 15+% is still a big achievement to make on any modern car, even a Corolla.

    I guess we'll see...

    In the end, folks prone to buy a Corolla probably won't care if its 40, 38 or even slightly less. Corollas pretty much run until the body falls off the chassis, and while mpg is important to buyers, they really key in on the "runs forever" aspect.... That is, the Corolla owners I know.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,991
    The State of US Automakers won't need to improve if BMW keeps making fire bombs. A ladies less than a year old 9,500 mile 335i coupe caught fire for no apparent reason the other day in a parking lot. Well, the apparent reason being a design or part defect courtesy low BMW quality control.

    She went back to her vehicle, started to see smoke coming out of the dash and glove compartment area, and ran for help. By the time help put out the raging fire in the passenger compartment up front, it was pretty bad. The fire was definitely concentrated in the glove box area, and was not an engine fire.

    WOW! Reminds me of those pictures of the Chevy's burning up on the side of the road.

    But this is a $40K+ BMW. Even the lady said she could just get a Malibu if she was going to put up with this kind of non-sense.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    edited June 2013
    That was Cadillacs burning in those roadside pics. I'm sure you-know-who will post the same pic as has been done for double-digit times over the past two or so years. ;)

    I've not heard or read of a single recent Malibu that has burned.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    WOW! Reminds me of those pictures of the Chevy's burning up on the side of the road.

    I just did a google search of "Chevrolet fire" which yielded 75 million web results.
    The same search for "Audi fire" yielded 105 million results.

    The same search in google images yielded more pictures of Audis on fire than Chevys.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,991
    Google doesn't take the time to remove from their count redundant posts, so it is inherently unreliable, not to mention the web is unreliable.

    Honestly now, how many cars have you personally seen on fire in your lifetime. I can only think of 2, and that includes this recent event.

    The first one happened when I was so young I don't know nor remember the make and model.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    Honestly now, how many cars have you personally seen on fire in your lifetime. I can only think of 2, and that includes this recent event.

    I've probably personally seen two or so. The ones I remember, long ago, were old beater-looking POS's too.

    I know others on here have seen late model GM's on fire. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A friend's pickup burnt up years ago but I wasn't around. Never seen anything but a couple of smoldering RVs.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    My uncle's '03 Corolla has around 220,000 or so miles on it, and it still has plenty of life left in it. It doesn't look so hot anymore, but that's not totally the car's fault. He's hit a few things with it, and with the more recent hits, he's just let them go. It's starting to rust a bit, but I'm convinced that's because he parks it on the grass in front of the house, under a big tree, so it gets exposed to more moisture. And the interior looks like crap, but he's a construction worker, so that kinda goes with the territory.

    The neighbors in back have a similar vintage Corolla that has over 300,000 miles on it, and still looks pretty good.

    Even though it's past its prime, the Corolla does still have a lot going for it. My only beef with the '03-07 model is the driver's seat room/comfort. Legroom is so scarce that I practically have to tuck my legs up under me, and the steering wheel is so low it's between my knees, so I bump it when I take my foot off the gas and apply the brake. And, while legroom is scanty, the steering wheel is almost too far away. You have to be built like an ape, with long arms and short legs, to be comfortable driving this car. I don't have much seat time in the '08-13 model, but it does seem a bit roomier on the inside.

    Even though it's rated 26/34 by today's standards, using the metrics of the time, it was rated at 30/38. My uncle would usually get around 32-34 mpg in mixed driving...lot of highway, but also lot of rush hour traffic jams. I drove it up to Carlisle PA once, and managed something like 37.8 mpg.

    The new one is pretty ugly, IMO. But, it's still probably a good car. Just an ugly one. But, what's that old saying? Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder? :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    I actually got to see a burning CR-V years ago, on the median of the DC Beltway. I think that was when the whole "double gasket" issue came about, and they'd spurt out oil at high pressure and it would ignite. From what I remember though, the fire was actually in front of it, like perhaps they stopped on the median when they saw smoke, perhaps the oil pooled up on the ground and ignited, and then they backed it up a few feet to get away from it?

    I do remember seeing a burning car on the Baltimore-Washington Parkway about 2-3 years ago, but it was on the other side of the highway, and I couldn't tell what it was. It was a small car.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    By and large, I think given all the common vendors these days, that the likelihood of seeing a car on the side of the road burning is probably fairly similar between brands. The exception is any individual brand defects and it's kind of surprising, well maybe not, that Chrysler/Jeep appears to have copied the old Pinto exposed gas tank in the back after all that fiasco.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I wonder once the new Corolla is established if the new, larger dimensions will cannibalize any sales from Camry?
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    That free maintenance wouldn't sway me. I do maintenance before the manual says, and I bet they wouldn't pay if you came in with even 20% left on the oil monitor. Purely a guess on my part, not a hard fact (note that I'm identifying it as such).

    I just purchased a new 2013 Silverado, and the dealer threw in free oil changes for the first 2 years / 24k miles. Note that this is the dealer, not GM. I read the fine print, and you have to be at 20% or less on the oil monitor. This would probably get you two oil changes in 24k miles. I am not impressed.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I predict that the new, larger Corolla will take some sales from the Camry. It'll be interesting to see how many choose the enlarged Corolla over the larger Camry. However, the Civic, Cruze, Dart and Jetta stand to lose even more sales to Corolla than Camry.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    I think the phrase was something like "the most efficient models will get 40 mpg"

    So maybe Toyota has an eco version? Or it's the base model that has a manual trans and very few options available?

    Have they shed a few pounds with this redesign?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    It's noted that MT and C&D both rated the Impala second in their tests, but the Cadenza was No. 1 in MT's but No. 5 in C&D?

    Just goes to show that people are people and people are subjective. That is a pretty dramatic difference though. And I have to believe that the cars were similarly equipped in both mags; e.g., loaded versions as is generally the case when new models are tested in a mag.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,722
    edited June 2013
    >So maybe Toyota has an eco version?

    There are two versions of the 1.8 engine and two different transmissions, one 4-speed and the other a faux 7-speed CVS.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    She went back to her vehicle, started to see smoke coming out of the dash and glove compartment area, and ran for help. By the time help put out the raging fire in the passenger compartment up front, it was pretty bad. The fire was definitely concentrated in the glove box area, and was not an engine fire.

    That sounds like it may be related to a current recall affecting tons of BMW cars. They are replacing the cable end that terminates at the fuse/equipment panel (only if found to be defective), and this junction panel is behind the glove box. I wonder if this car had been examined yet.

    I think any car is capable of burning, under the right circumstances. I actually saw a 3-4 year old Jeep Cherokee fire being extinguished last fall. Funny (not to the owner, I'm sure) that it was in the parking lot of a car title-loan business. I hope he got his cash before the collateral actually went up in flames.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    "Even the lady said she could just get a Malibu if she was going to put up with this kind of non-sense."...

    Well THAT'S a real left-handed compliment, isn't it?

    Sorta like saying: "Gee, if I wanted a car that caught fire, I would have bought American!"

    Not a stunning commentary on the public's perception of US automakers :cry:
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Sorta like saying: "Gee, if I wanted a car that caught fire, I would have bought American!"

    I think that WAS what she was saying.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    Well, I'm glad she felt the need to spend far more, just to have this happen. ;)

    Actually, of course I wouldn't wish this on anyone...anyone.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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