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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I'd say her comment says more about her than the car.

    It seems obvious to me she bought a status symbol, not transportation.... Being able to ride in it was a plus for her, but it wasn't the reason she bought it.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    You read my mind....

    image
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It's noted that MT and C&D both rated the Impala second in their tests, but the Cadenza was No. 1 in MT's but No. 5 in C&D?

    What C&D issue had the comparison test? I have May, June and July 2013 issues and there is no such test.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited June 2013
    That's why I posted the picture of the burning JGC that my 'Bro photoshoped! After trading his in for the Kia Sorento, he made in the nick of time! He is EXTREMLY happy he made his decision about 2 months ago.

    He would have gotten 1/2 the tarde-in amount for his US Steel after the NHTSA news! Let's just say He had a burning desire.:shades:

    In unrelated Fire news, here's more reason to think 630K times before buying a Chrysler:

    Chrysler said Thursday that it will recall more than 409,000 Jeep Patriot and Compass small SUVs around the world from the 2010 and 2012 model years to fix air bag and seat-belt problems.

    It's also recalling 221,000 Jeep Wranglers worldwide from 2012 and 2013 to fix transmission fluid leaks, according to documents posted Thursday on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration website
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,679
    edited June 2013
    Huge recall.

    I can't believe they don't have redundancy on the cruise control to turn it off. If the switch is bad, the cruise won't turn off. There should be another parallel system to abort the cruise control. Shades of the Saylor family toyota in California with the runaway acceleration.

    "Korean automakers Hyundai and Kia are recalling almost 1.9 million vehicles to fix problems with air bags and brake light switches.

    The switch recall covers almost 1.7 million vehicles — most of the automakers' model lineups from the 2007 through 2011 model years.

    In addition, Hyundai Motor Co. is recalling about 194,000 Elantra compacts from 2011 to 2013 to fix an air bag problem.

    A faulty switch can stop the brake lights from illuminating when drivers press on the pedal, the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in documents posted Wednesday on its website. Also, the cruise control may not turn off when a driver steps on the brake, push-to-start buttons may not work, and a feature that stops the driver from shifting out of park without a foot on the brake may fail.

    "Failure to illuminate the stop lamps during braking or inability to disengage the cruise control could increase the risk of a crash," NHTSA said in the documents.
    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/04/04/hyundai
    -and-kia-recalling-1-million-cars/#ixzz2VilDJ2Ks

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,892
    edited June 2013
    It's noted that MT and C&D both rated the Impala second in their tests, but the Cadenza was No. 1 in MT's but No. 5 in C&D?

    What C&D issue had the comparison test? I have May, June and July 2013 issues and there is no such test.


    Per this earlier poster, it was C&D, although I wonder if he might have meant 'Automobile':

    You may be thinking about the Car and Driver test of the same month. No Taurus in that test, but the Azera was tested in addition to the same other cars, plus the Charger. Avalon won that comparo, with Impala keeping the same #2 spot, Kia in fifth and Hyundai in last place. The two Chrysler products were in the middle.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • js06gvjs06gv Member Posts: 460
    No, it's Car & Driver July. Top of front cover reads "Chevy Impala takes on rivals, p.52"

    2024 Ram 1500 Longhorn, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited June 2013
    I can't believe they don't have redundancy on the cruise control to turn it off. If the switch is bad, the cruise won't turn off. There should be another parallel system to abort the cruise control.

    I would agree that it seems a bit of poor engineering to have so much rely on a single switch, but at the same time, I'm not sure if other manufacturers might not do exactly the same thing.

    It wasn't all that long ago that Ford had fire-related issues with leaking brake line switches that were constantly powered on one side, even with the ignition off.

    http://trucks.about.com/od/carsafety/a/ford_cruise.htm

    Maybe everyone should be using a little bit better quality switch...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,892
    No, it's Car & Driver July. Top of front cover reads "Chevy Impala takes on rivals, p.52"

    Thanks for pointing this out to circlew.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Thanks...got it!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    After reading both (MTand C&D), I can say that I agree with you regarding subjectivity. The Impala looks better from the outside, afaic. The interior on the Cadenza is really good as I've experience it but can't say about the Impala. (The C&D tester likes the Kia better). The leather and seat comfort are impeccable for the price.

    I will test drive the Cadenza tomorrow as I am scheduled to fix my Optima brake switch on the recall. :blush:

    I still do not see any '14 Impalas at my local Chevy dealer!??? I plan to test drive it asap (v-6 only).

    The local Kia dealer has had 2 Cadenzas in the last 3 weeks in the showroom.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited June 2013
    Personally, I'd want an awful good deal buying a higher priced Kia Cadenza because I'd be concerned about the depreciation hit. Impala depreciation will probably vary based on how much retail versus fleet ends up. Hard to know right now, except I think big cars are a dwindling market share (even though I like land yachts!). Problem with those big boats though is that their stickers are often kind of close to a larger crossover which has more room. So that means either the large cars depreciate more because more prefer a CUV at those prices, or the smaller number of large car sales and the remaining loyalists mean the opposite??? (i.e. Got me hangin' cause I don't have a clue right now how it will play out!)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited June 2013
    Chevrolet dealers sold about 1,600 Volts last month, which is 4.3% fewer than were sold in May of 2012. Nissan (NSANF), meanwhile, saw a big increase in sales of the Leaf plug-in. Nissan sold 2,138 Leafs last month compared to just 510 the year before. Nissan is offering very low lease prices on the Leaf. The Leaf is available for $199 a month with only $999 down. Nissan also lowered the sticker price on the car as they moved production of the car from Japan to the United States.

    GM offers big rebates on the Chevy Volt

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited June 2013
    I'm going to hold out for 0 down, 0 interest, and 0 payments. :P

    Seriously that might be a good deal for someone who is currently pushing around a gas hog. You could pay off about $200 per month on that car from the gas you'd save in a year. Of course, interest on the loan might eat some of that up.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Although they're not really comparable, I'd buy a Volt over a Leaf. More practical and, in my opinion, better looking.

    Got a ride in a friend's Tesla S Saturday. An interesting experience, and very nice, in every respect, but it's not for me. He mentioned that he gets free parking in some downtown DC garages (maybe just in the evenings), and free charging. Plus, he obviously avoids the gas tax. That's wonderful, but the rest of us subsidize those freebies.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,446
    And the best part of it, he's probably a 3%er at least, so this is just one publicly funded gift he's receiving.

    I like the S, it's a cool car - but the financials behind it are as broken as this oligarchy in general.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,446
    I wonder if they are being sold below cost (dumped). It almost seems too cheap. My local Nissan dealer must have 100 or more (seriously) of them sitting around, even using parking on neighboring lots for storage.

    But at $200/month, the right person could actually make the numbers work. Of course, those numbers aren't really market based.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    The Volt is definitely more practical but it's hard to justify that price when you can get a Verano for a few thousand less.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    Yeah, it has to be a loss leader, but for the right person it makes sense. If you get a few people hooked on electric as a second/commuter car it might just work.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    We test drove a Tesla S in Boston last month. Phenomenal acceleration, great looks but otherwise meh . When the $30k version is out I'd buy one but it's not worth $70k.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So you guys who have driven around in a Tesla S are saying that it's interesting but kinda dull?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    and I can tell you all that this is the first Toyota Corolla I would even somewhat consider parting with pesos for.

    image
    2014 Toyota Corolla

    It can't touch my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS for sporty styling and great handling and ride, however.

    BTW-I spotted a '67 VW Bug in white for sale locally here right in Alamogordo, NM. It's at a small one-man dealer located just west of town on Highway 70. He wants $3,000 and doesn't know how many miles are on the car. It's body is straight and has newer tires and wheels. If I were a single man I'd go make him an offer, but I'm not a single man! :D

    Oh, yes, standard transmission purist types, it's a 4-speed stick shift. Oh no. How am I going to stay away from there now, car nuts? It's just what I want! If it passes the test-drive that will never be I'd offer him $2,500 and get it. If I were a single man.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited June 2013
    To me, yes, because it seemed too perfect. There may be a better adjective than "dull," but that was my feeling after ~12 miles in the passenger seat.

    Luxurious? Check. Fast? Check. Quiet? Very. Contemporary, tasteful styling? Absolutely. Good ride? As good as any comparable Euro model. Novel? For sure. What's missing, then? For me, it lacked soul. I know that's an elusive term, but that's the best single word that comes to mind to describe what the Tesla S lacks.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    BTW-I spotted a '67 VW Bug in white for sale locally here right in Alamogordo, NM.

    Many VW aficionados consider the 1967 Beetle to be the best of the classic bugs. It was the first year they went from 6v to 12v electrical, yet predates significant smog controls. I believe that the 4 speed was the only tranny until 1968 when the "auto stick" was also introduced. You can tell a '67 because it has the old chrome bumpers but the headlights are vertical rather than sloped with the fender. There are also two bolt-on backup lights on the rear bumper. The following year, 1968 Beetle was the first year that the new chrome with black stripe bumper style was introduced.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    despite Bob Lutz's support....

    Depending on the automaker's response, NHTSA will decide whether to issue a formal finding and then convene a public hearing, a final step before ordering a recall, the Detroit News reported. The safety agency says Chrysler "contravened industry trends," as well as its own practices in non-Jeep vehicles by placing the fuel tanks in a vulnerable location behind the rear axle. The resulting fires were caused by gas leaking from punctured fuel tanks in rear-end crashes, causing the deaths of 51 people, the Detroit News reported.

    NHTSA gives Chrysler June 18 deadline on Jeep recall
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    but Ford is slipping either way.

    Is Ford losing its quality edge?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The NHTSA investigation does raise a lot of questions - they're going back twenty years. How long should an automaker be on the hook?

    As KCRam put it elsewhere, "What's to stop them from demanding all remaining 1964-1/2 Mustangs be refitted with airbags because the occupants are "at risk"?"
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I bet if 51 children choked to death after swallowing the little bayonets on their G.I. Joe dolls, that they would be recalled.

    I'm amazed that there are any Jeeps that old still running. :P
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Nah, I think this one is Ford engineering and bean counters. Take the Edge. It now seems more problem prone and noisier than earlier models. That's called "cost cutting".
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That Ford article reads like nothing more than a USA Today "puff piece" to me.

    The really interesting part of the article was glossed over---that automakers are figuring out ways to isolate and interpret complaints and create target patterns, so that they can recall fewer cars but more quickly.

    In other words, they are casting a smaller net it seems, to catch the fish they really want.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,031
    edited June 2013
    My 2012 Ram just acted up on me today (Andres3 is gonna love this! :sick: ). I had driven another car to work, but went home for lunch, and drove the Ram back. When I put it in gear, it took a few seconds for it to engage. And then, the display where it would normally say "D", was reading "4".

    Once I got out on the road and accelerated, I noticed something seemed a bit funny. Then, when I got out to the main road and had to get up to cruising speed, I realized what it was...the sucker was staying in 4th gear the whole time! And. let me tell you, even a 5.7 Hemi doesn't have much power when you have to accelerate from a standstill in 4th gear!

    Got to work okay, which was only a 2.5 mile trip. And once I was there, I put it in park, turned it off, and then turned it back on and put it in gear Seemed okay then. Hopefully this is just a one-time glitch, and not a harbinger of things to come!

    FWIW, yesterday on the drive home, I had downshifted to 4th gear, coming down the final hill before home, so it wouldn't pick up too much speed. So, for whatever reason, I guess it "remembered" I had put it in 4th, and didn't want to get out of it!

    But, if it turns out to be a major ordeal, who should I blame? The Italians, the Americans, or the Mexicans? :P
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    How long should an automaker be on the hook?

    As long as people are dying.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited June 2013
    Cost-cutting due to high cost UAW, perhaps?? ;)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    But, if it turns out to be a major ordeal, who should I blame? The Italians, the Americans, or the Mexicans?

    The UAW! :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,031
    As long as people are dying.

    I dunno...I think that at some point, there should be a cutoff. For instance, my '79 5th Avenue decided it wanted to be a Ford product last year, and started leaking gasoline. Well, now that I think about it, it was designed by some Ford designers and stylists who bailed on Ford and went to Chrysler a few years before Iacocca, so perhaps there's a connection there? :P

    Anyway, it turns out it was just the area where the fuel filler goes into the gas tank, and was a fairly cheap fix. The car was also roughly 34 years old at that point (10/78 build date), so can I really hold Chrysler to blame for it?
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Cost-cutting due to high cost UAW, perhaps

    ...or executive bonuses. Let's be fair about both of these groups of greed!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    But it's so much easier to kick the one on his knees. :P
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    edited June 2013
    Many VW aficionados consider the 1967 Beetle to be the best of the classic bugs. It was the first year they went from 6v to 12v electrical, yet predates significant smog controls. I believe that the 4 speed was the only tranny until 1968 when the "auto stick" was also introduced. You can tell a '67 because it has the old chrome bumpers but the headlights are vertical rather than sloped with the fender. There are also two bolt-on backup lights on the rear bumper. The following year, 1968 Beetle was the first year that the new chrome with black stripe bumper style was introduced.

    Man, you keep my vintage VW Bug fire flamed! You are officially my Edmunds.com vintage VW Bug resource, ya know that? Thank you for that '67 VW Bug information. I'm in the stage where when at stores and malls and bookstores I'm looking for books and magazines on '60-'70 VW Bugs. Oh yeah, I've been bitten by the old Bug bug bad.

    Yeah, I haven't detailed out the horiontal vs. vertical headlight thing you're talking about regarding MY 1967 for my Beetle...I...I mean his '67 VW Bug in white for sale. I will take drives there occasionally and stare at the car for detailed looks at the little classic dynamo. This old V-Dub looks great, certain people just know what paint-tire-wheel combos look best on the old cars. And this is one of them. And this person chose one of my favorite colors for old Bugs to paint theirs while they owned it: white. Classic white.

    It doesn't have a front bumper and since the lot is barb-wired, I haven't seen the rear of the car yet at all. So I'll look. This car looks fantastic without the front bumper, it really adds to the great "cuteness factor" of the car. And tlong, I have also noticed that old VW Bug afficionados heap praise upon MY 1967 as being a more-than-normal year of old Bug to cherish.

    I can spot a back bumper from the driveway but wouldn't know until I make a purchase offer...I...I mean take a test drive in the car, or at least can do a proper walk-around the car and spend a little bit more time around the car. I have a weird feeling that in this economy this Bug is going to sit like that on the lot for sale for several more weeks at least. So the rogue pursuit will pant on for iluv's pursuit of his own chunk of automotive history. It's going to be a near-impossible quest, though, because of finances and different opinions on how many cars we need in the household. How many "babies" we need in our stable, so to speak. :shades:

    And most real car enthusiasts shouldn't be surprised when I tell you all that getting parts for these pups is like walking into any Autozone for some bug juice, IOW's not gonna be a problem. At all. I'll have to work on a stalwart plan on how to fit this baby into our plans. Better than the "how much is that doggie in the window" plan I'm living right now!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    Well said. I'd call it intriguing, but not worth the price premium. To me little things like the leather quality, etc. weren't on par with a $70k car, not bad mind you but just not up to that price point. If you have the money it's not a bad buy and probably fun, the acceleration was amazing and it was quiet and overall smooth, no wind noise...but it's definitely a novelty for me.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I used a little parts store in Boise that specialized in VW stuff. You'd walk in for a filter or whatever and wind up admiring the two or three VW Bug crate engines sitting on the floor.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    VW, MG and Mustang probably have the best aftermarket network in the world for the hobbyist.

    Kind of ironic considering how difficult it is sometimes to buy parts for a 5 year old American car!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    One could probably build an entire 1965 Mustang out of aftermarket parts.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    are doing nothing but fanning the flames, dudes. What, am I collaborating with real car enthusiasts here or something? Is that what you've been all along? Tee-hee. :shades:

    steve, you're right, I'll bet it doesn't have an A/C. It may have a radio, V-Dub put in the old pushbutton kind for years upon years. But I could put a stereo in later I spose.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited June 2013
    I've been looking for a car to drive around town and as a first car for my daughter next year.

    Took a 2009 Lancer GTS with a manual trans for a test drive. It's definitely a sharp looking car. I did like how it drove, very tight handling and the ride was good considering how well it handled. I thought it would be quicker, but it's been a long time since I've driven 4cyl compact. It wasn't slow, but definitely not particularly quick either. The only thing I really didn't like about it was how bad the road noise was. It was loud enough to the point my soon to be 15 year old daughter complained about how loud it was. The car only had 25k miles on it and the low profile Goodyears looked like they were in excellent shape, but maybe they hadn't been rotated properly.

    Anyway, I've been thinking about just keeping the Expedition (until it dies) and buy a car to drive around town and to give to my daughter next year (or at least have around for her to use). Been looking for a fuel efficient sporty compact with a manual. But my brother has thrown a wrench into my plans. He offered me his '10 Fusion Sport with 35k miles on it for around $13k with a set of Bizzacks on rims. IMO, that's a deal I can't pass up. Sure it doesn't get great gas mileage or have a manual trans, but it is a good looking (IMO) sporty sedan. With the the 3.5 it's definitely quick enough, probably quicker than I'd want my daughter driving, but I'll deal with that later..... Anyway, in the next month or so we may have another Ford in the driveway. That will make 3! My wife should be getting her new '13 Taurus any day to replace her '10 any day now.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    drifting off topic here.

    Did I post this yet?

    "FYI: Between 2006 and 2011, patent activity in the alternative power area grew by 182 percent, more than *any other* technological area in the automotive industry. Toyota, Honda and GM filed for roughly 22,255 unique patent inventions in that 5 year time period."
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,937
    That may be true that fires are pretty even across the board between makers, (any insurance claim adjusters verify that?)?

    That said, I am very dis-swayed from considering BMW as my next vehicle purchase in LARGE part due to this witnessed damage caused by a fire in her BMW 335i coupe!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Iluv, good luck whichever way you go. I know so much about bugs because I bought my first car - a used '66 Bug, and I drove it from 63K when I got it to 235K when I finally sold it! My brother had a 1970 and my best friend had a 1971 Super Beetle. We took apart and rebuilt his engine, so the Bugs are where I learned about cars and car engines. I could tune up my '66 very quickly and easily.

    In my experience it will be harder to find interior-type parts than anything mechanical. But I suspect that it would still be easier to find old interior parts of a '60s-vintage bug than even some American cars from the '80s or '90s.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Perhaps this will sell more cars....

    The 2014 CTS standard model, which was unveiled only a couple of months ago at the New York Auto Show, will start at $46,025, including $925 destination charge, about $6,000 more than the current version.

    That's a huge price leap even for a car as initially well received as the CTS redo. Cadillac officials think the new CTS will take on the likes of BMW and Mercedes-Benz.

    "CTS has always been Cadillac's centerpiece, and as our brand expands and elevates the car properly grows to its true place," says David Leone, CTS executive chief engineer, in a statement. "CTS will directly challenge the luxury midsize competition with uncompromised performance, luxury and technology."


    Perhaps not.

    Watch HyunKia now....
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited June 2013
    Automakers NEED to be on the hook for horrible designs. The same Jeeps came with 6-cyl valve lifter designs that fail religiously. If Toyota had to recall massive amounts so does Chrysler.

    When you make junk, you die by the junk. Chrysler still hadn't learned that until the second failure.

    You have to pay to play. :shades:

    Investigators may decide whether a vehicle poses "unreasonable risk to safety" based on several factors, including whether a vehicle design is defective. That, along with the fire rate, is why NHTSA says it is ordering a recall.

    Randy Whitfield, of the statistical research company Quality Control Systems, has analyzed the Jeep fire rate and believes it's high enough compared to similar SUVs to support a recall request. But he also says that is not the point, adding that "the statistical significance of differences in rates by itself tells us nothing about whether the rates reflect reasonable choices in design."


    At the end of the day, it will probably be settled as in this case:

    In the GM pickup case, NHTSA threatened to sue GM to force a huge pickup truck recall because the agency argued the placement of the fuel tank -- ahead of the axle and on the sides of the trucks outside the frame rails -- made them unreasonably vulnerable to fires in certain side crashes. Then-Transportation Secretary Federico Pena overruled his agency staff, requested a recall and threatened a lawsuit. But the Administration then, in effect, overruled him when it brokered a settlement with GM.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Automakers NEED to be on the hook for horrible designs.

    For how long then? 20 years? 40 years? Chrysler been through a bankruptcy and two or three owners since 1993.
This discussion has been closed.