Mazda Protegé

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Comments

  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    Never heard of it, or heard it.

    BTW: The 2.0L still sounds better(stronger) than the 4 bangers in the Corolla and Civic.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "Now, the jury is out on which is really better, but I'm sure someone will be glad to assist you with informed opinions."

    No, the jury reached a verdict as soon as disc brakes were invented. The jury is still out on exactly how much better discs are, and whether or not they really make a noticeable difference to MOST drivers. However, we DO know that disk brakes are better than drums. That verdict was reached A LONG time ago.

    As far as the 2.0L vs. 1.8L. We've been through this a million times. To sum it up, the 1.8L apparantly (I haven't driven one) sounds better and revs more willingly. The 2.0L has better low end torque, but runs out of steam as you get closer to redline.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    The 2.0 sounds very strained at high rpm. And to exacerbate matters it's gears a little short. Wreaks havoc on the high speed mpg. That's why we sold ours.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    80% of braking is done by the front wheels on most front weight biased cars. Rear disc brakes are more for looks or feel than performance. A good sized drum would suffice.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Sounds like you should have never bought the car in the first place. What an expensive mistake that was.

    BTW, We know who you are. You don't seem to like Mazda's, but you sure like their forums. Are the Accord and Civic forums as boring as the vehicles themselves?
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    I have a digital data of the dyno for both 1.8 and 2.0l engine. The data confirm what has been said here.

    1) the torque of the 2.0l drops significantly around 5500 rpm. The 1.8l torque seems to drop with the same rate after 6200 rpm.

    2) at the lower end, the 2.0l engine has about 7% higher torque than the 1.8l engine.

    3) the two torque curves cross each other at 5700 rpm.

    Bruno
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    But like many I also have an opinion. Instead of talking about me, how about keeping it on the car.
    Like the data says the power drops off at higher RPM. And the car is geared rather short for car that has great "low end torque". No point in downshifting to pass, it takes you further from the power band. We loved our Protege for around town driving but it was a very frustrating highway car. Between the highway MPG and noisy RPM at 85-100 we did sell it.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    I hope you are enjoying your Infinity. I am sure the 2.0L probably seems vastly inferior to your high priced luxury automobile's engine.

    The fact remains that time and again the Protege (equipped with both 1.8L and 2.0L engines) was chosen over other, similarly priced automobiles like the Civic, Corolla, and Focus by a variety of trade publications such as Car and Driver. They seem to like it, and it is a reliable, comfortable car to boot. That is good enough for me.

    When I test drove a 1.8L Corolla and a 1.7L Honda recently, they sounded like I was stepping on a seal or maybe a penguin as I accelerated. The 2.0L Protege sounded much more pleasing and powerful. At highway speeds, all of the I-4 engines were about equally loud, and none seemed "strained" in particular. I should add that I consider 60-80MPH highway speeds. I do not routinely drive at 100MPH.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    Gee35 wrote: "No point in downshifting to pass, it takes you further from the power band"

    Sorry G35. Most of the time your arguments are "approximative" and half of the time they are just plain wrong.

    At 80mph, the 2.0l engine runs at 3700 rpm at the fifth gear. Downshift to 4th will bring the rpm to 4754 rpm, which is still significantly lower than the optimum power-band (centered around 5700 rpm).

    Bruno
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Loved the pics of the exterior. Didn't like the interior so I passed. Still love to see em go down the street though.
    C@D laud the handling. I agree the car drove like crazy handling and brakewise. That's why we bought it. But when you want settle down a cruise the car was too nervous.
    I haven't driven those other cars yet so I can't compare them but I gave to the question which was asked. Isn't that what Edmunds is for?
    I'm really not a fan of V6's so I may have like the Pro's engine more than the Infiniti's. V6's are kinda gravelly.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    Your member profile says you own an Infinity. Which one? I am just trying to glean to which vehicle you are comparing the Protege.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    The car is geared rather short. I enjoy the shorter gearing, it gets the car off the line better, adding to the low end. I get mid to high 30 mpg on the highway, but then again I don't drive like an idiot up near 100 mph

    20% of the breaking is done by the rears. That's a significant amount - quite noticeable, and potentially quite important.

    No point in downshifting to pass - you really don't need to anyway.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    3) the two torque curves cross each other at 5700 rpm.

    Isn't is 5750? Does HP equal torque at 5750 rpms on all engines? I think I've heard something like that before.
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    he's talking about torque curves (only) for the two engines crossing (as it so happens, coniciding at) 5750 rpm.

    HP=torque at 5750 for all engines - doesn't sound logical or believable to me, but what do I know?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Why shift when the band is in more or less the same place afterwards. Just more revs and decreasing power. I know 80 is closer to 4000 RPM or more, right where the advertised torque peak is. So 4750 (if that's what it is) won't get you any more power.

    As far as the brakes. 20% is significant. But nothing that a good sized drum can't handle. Just like on the heavier MPV and Trubute which are not available with discs.

    As far as 100 mph driving. Come down to the southern states. It's pretty commonplace to see lines of cars going in the 90's to 100 mph on the open road. Not that it's only here that it happens. I've done 150 on that stretch of 85 in VA between NC and Richmond. With the trees so close...What a rush.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    I was talking about torque curve of 2.0l cross the torque curve of the 1.8l at 5700 rpm:

    - bellow 5700 rpm -> 2.0l has bigger torque and hp than the 1.8l
    - above 5700 rpm -> 2.0l has smaller torque and hp than the 1.8l.

    Bruno
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    - It's funny that you teach me where MY car engine run at 80mph. It's read 3700 rpm on the tach, and it's already 5-6% higher than Mazda spec.

    - There is about 25% increase of power from 3700 to 4750 rpm. Again this is from the dyno test at the wheel.

    Bruno
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    So there ya go. We disagree. Again.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    1 miles = 1760 yards = 1760x36 inches.

    80 mph = 80x1760x36/60 inches/minute = 84480 inches/minute.

    The diameter of 195/50R16 wheel is 23.6772 inches.

    The wheel circumference = pi*23.5772" = 74.3840".

    At 80 mph, the wheel rpm is : 84480/72.3840 = 1135.7 rpm.

    As the final drive and the fifth gear ratio given by Mazda are 4.105 and 0.755, the engine rpm should be:

    1135.7*4.104*0.755 = 3520 rpm.

    Sorry G35, the number you gave (4000 rpm) is way off.

    Bruno
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    real practical math! nice!
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Didn't have to do any math or anything.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    is saying that either your tach was wrong, or you can't see straight. The math he has seems pretty straight forward and numbers don't lie. You must have had the only 2.0L Protege ES 5sp that turns 4000 rpm at 80mph.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I know what road you are talking about going from VA to NC. I don't know how you got away with going 100 there without being locked up and thron in jail. I drove to NC via 95-85-40 for 4th of July, and there was a cop every 100 feet it seemed. That was going down and coming back, on July 8 (to MD). And they were "dirty" about it too, hiding behind bushes and stuff to get you as you pass. I had driven that way before, so I knew when to speed and when not to.

    I did hit 110mph once in VA on tree-lined 95 (I was driving around 10:30 at night too though), but didn't stay there long. No sooner did I slow down then there was a cop on the side of the road.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    My 01 Protege ran 3900rpm at 80mph, with a 4-speed auto tranny. For every 10mph, the rpm increased 500rpm. By the time I was up to 90 (and 4500rpm), it sounded like the 2.0 was going to come through the firewall at me.

    I don't know all the calculations and don't really care to be blunt. I just remember driving my own car, and what the gauges said. I also didn't have aftermarket tires/wheels to throw anything off either, so I don't know if my gauges were wrong or not.
  • theparallaxtheparallax Member Posts: 361
    ...a multi-link independant in the rear just like the Protege. Keep in mind that it's rear wheel drive too, so it has to be somewhat complex.


    Who wanted pictures of the Protege's rear suspension?


    Stock:

    image

    With AWR sway bar installed:

    image

    image

    image


    The "red bar" on the MP3 is the sway bar. Most cars have these, but not as beefy.

  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    I was with a newer Maxima. Every now and then I would gun it and pass him. I was in a CL-S. It was daytime though. I stick to around 70-75 through there at night.

    95 is usually crowded enough for you to either follow someone or watch for brake lights to tell you where the cops are.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I remember being in NC, on 85 still (before getting to 40 West), and seeing cop cars HIDING BEHIND BUSHES so you could only see them after you passed them. I had my cruise set on 70mph though, because I thought cops would be around. I know here in MD, they can't hide off the road that way. It's called entrapment. There, I didn't wanna take a chance in getting into an argument with a cop, being an out-of-stater and all.
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    you drove an automatic, Paul

    g35 and bluong are discussing the 5 speed. The ratios (final and top gear) are totally different. Also, the average speedo/tach has a smaller error than 5%, but they're only required to be within 10%.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    gandalf17 Mar 6, 2002 12:31pm

    "we found that the engine note got a bit discordant at times."
    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/45994/article.html

    Wait a minute Bluong had a typo in his equation. AND he gave 3700 RPM which is also wrong.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    You have pictures of everything!
  • theparallaxtheparallax Member Posts: 361
    Yep!
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Ok...So why does the Mazda.ca website say the RX-8 has a multilink beam suspension?

    I've never heard of the Pro's suspension being called this....only TTL.
  • theparallaxtheparallax Member Posts: 361
    TTL is just Mazda's name for the Protege's multi-link.

    According to the MazdaUSA site, RX-8 has a multi-link. No beam.

    I'm assuming it's a typo. And I seriously doubt the "zoom-zoom" company is going to have a beam (or live) axle on their rear wheel drive sports car.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    If it is a typo it's in a nice Flash presentation.
    Please check it out to make sure I'm not nuts...
    www.mazda.ca
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    Everytime I drop the car at the dealer, I look underneath trying to figure out how the TTL works, but I couldn't get the principe after numerous attemp. Last time there was a Milenia just next to mine, it seems like the multi link design is even more complex.

    IIRC, the TTL is first developped in the 80s and first used by Mazda on the RX7 at the time. But succesive generations of RX7 have multilink rear suspension.

    Bruno
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Protegé

    I just get in the thing and drive away

    I can’t worry ‘bout the rear end sway

    I can’t do crap about it

    Anyway.

    Suddenly

    We argue every day, it seems to me

    We can’t agree on anything--oh, glory be

    We need to relax, it’s just a

    Protegé!

    I am

    Such a dork

    Don’t know ‘bout

    Torque

    And never will.

    I think

    The car is great

    And this debate

    Is getting ooooooooollllllllddddddddddd

    Protegé

    I’m about to get right in and drive away

    Traffic will suck today, but that’s okay

    ‘Cause I’ll be stuck in my

    Protegé
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Happy Holidays, everybody!!!!

    :):)

    --Dale
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    I find it mighty hilarious that Audi is promoting the TTL rear suspension in the rear of the new (02+) A4 as their gift to mankind - they need to get a clue. Yes, its good and its great they adopted it - but they were hardly the first to do so. In fact, I doubt Mazda was, either - or were they?
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Yeah, it seems like this forum has been kind of argumentitive lately and I certainly have contributed to that. I was in a jackass mood yesterday. Sorry for being such a punk.

    Anyway, the Protege has been running great. It should, it only has 24,000 miles on it. It has taken me almost 2 years to get to this mileage so I don't know if I'll ever be able to see 200,000 miles in it. I need to start driving it more and getting my money's worth out of the Mobil 1. Oh yeah, I don't think the TTL works very well with winter tires. They suck so bad that you can't corner hard enough for the TTL to kick in. I put these spongy things on a week or so ago, and it's been warm here ever since. It was frickin raining today. In the middle of December. In Minnesota.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    That songs rocks!

    I wanna memorize it and sing it when I;m happily driving in my sport-sedan Protege :)

    Let me have my fun, all rite? Please no discussion on why the PRO is or isn't a sport sedan :)

    Dinu
  • tomcivilettitomciviletti Member Posts: 207
    In any event, the pro rear suspension works well. You can actually feel it dig in as the cornering load increases. Most fwd cars might as well be dragging their rears on furniture casters; everything is done by the front suspension. The pro setup approaches a good rwd set-up for handling balance [except for that damn toque steer].
  • kinshasakinshasa Member Posts: 6
    I have two new teenage drivers coming up this March. I've been looking at late model Proteges with less than 30,000 miles. My 21 year old bought a 1999 LX last April with 53K miles and it seems pretty reliable. (And he's not getting pulled over by the cops like he was in the 1986 Olds Cutlass Supreme!).

    Now I read that Mazda is offering 0.0% APR on new 2003 models. Am I better off buying a 2003 with the great financing, or spending $10K for a 2001 LX? I don't want these teenagers to have a new car. Insurance premiums will cost more, and I don't think it's right to give a brand new driver a brand new car! The "learning" car has been a 2000 Saturn LS with V6 engine. This car has 33K miles and is my husband's car. I could let the kids drive this car and my husband could have the 2003 Protege.

    Any advice?
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    if you can. It's the same thing, and you could get it really cheap. I know Morries here in MN has quite a few 2002s. You can check the mazdausa site and load inventory data from your local dealership. I'd bet you could get the 0% financing and a heavy discount. It's worth a shot.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Thanks. :)

    And I wouldn't call anybody a 'jackass'...folks were just getting, um, er, 'enthusiastic.'

    ;)
  • sfratsfrat Member Posts: 208
    On my 01 ES 5spd, I'm just a hair under 4,000 rpm's, looking at it straight on from the driver seat, which is where I usually sit going that fast.

    I think it would be dangerous to sit anywhere else at that speed. No?

    The Pro is geared very low, makes a lot of torque in 1st through 3rd, which I find to be a real pain in stop and go traffic and parking lots. My only complaint with the car. I'm constantly on the clutch in low speeds.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I was calling myself a "jackass", nobody else. ;0
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    Unless you can get a dealer to take a big loss on one of the 2002's (selling it to you below their cost) you will be far better off just getting an 03 with 0% financing (if you qualify). The rebates on the 02's are not that much more than on the 03's and by getting an 03 you get:

    1. One year's less depreciation

    2. A longer warranty (4 yrs/50,000 mi instead of 3 yrs/50,000 miles)

    3. The usual upgrades that occur from one model year to the next.

    I don't think that 2002's can get 0% financing so that means you are left with whatever the factory to dealer cash incentive is. Of course, if you don't qualify for the 0%, you just take the rebate cash, but I'm pretty sure that the difference between the 02 and the 03 is only about $500-$1000 (not enough to warrant getting an 02 instead of an 03 IMHO). Hope this helps.
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