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Comments
BTW: The 2.0L still sounds better(stronger) than the 4 bangers in the Corolla and Civic.
No, the jury reached a verdict as soon as disc brakes were invented. The jury is still out on exactly how much better discs are, and whether or not they really make a noticeable difference to MOST drivers. However, we DO know that disk brakes are better than drums. That verdict was reached A LONG time ago.
As far as the 2.0L vs. 1.8L. We've been through this a million times. To sum it up, the 1.8L apparantly (I haven't driven one) sounds better and revs more willingly. The 2.0L has better low end torque, but runs out of steam as you get closer to redline.
BTW, We know who you are. You don't seem to like Mazda's, but you sure like their forums. Are the Accord and Civic forums as boring as the vehicles themselves?
1) the torque of the 2.0l drops significantly around 5500 rpm. The 1.8l torque seems to drop with the same rate after 6200 rpm.
2) at the lower end, the 2.0l engine has about 7% higher torque than the 1.8l engine.
3) the two torque curves cross each other at 5700 rpm.
Bruno
Like the data says the power drops off at higher RPM. And the car is geared rather short for car that has great "low end torque". No point in downshifting to pass, it takes you further from the power band. We loved our Protege for around town driving but it was a very frustrating highway car. Between the highway MPG and noisy RPM at 85-100 we did sell it.
The fact remains that time and again the Protege (equipped with both 1.8L and 2.0L engines) was chosen over other, similarly priced automobiles like the Civic, Corolla, and Focus by a variety of trade publications such as Car and Driver. They seem to like it, and it is a reliable, comfortable car to boot. That is good enough for me.
When I test drove a 1.8L Corolla and a 1.7L Honda recently, they sounded like I was stepping on a seal or maybe a penguin as I accelerated. The 2.0L Protege sounded much more pleasing and powerful. At highway speeds, all of the I-4 engines were about equally loud, and none seemed "strained" in particular. I should add that I consider 60-80MPH highway speeds. I do not routinely drive at 100MPH.
Sorry G35. Most of the time your arguments are "approximative" and half of the time they are just plain wrong.
At 80mph, the 2.0l engine runs at 3700 rpm at the fifth gear. Downshift to 4th will bring the rpm to 4754 rpm, which is still significantly lower than the optimum power-band (centered around 5700 rpm).
Bruno
C@D laud the handling. I agree the car drove like crazy handling and brakewise. That's why we bought it. But when you want settle down a cruise the car was too nervous.
I haven't driven those other cars yet so I can't compare them but I gave to the question which was asked. Isn't that what Edmunds is for?
I'm really not a fan of V6's so I may have like the Pro's engine more than the Infiniti's. V6's are kinda gravelly.
20% of the breaking is done by the rears. That's a significant amount - quite noticeable, and potentially quite important.
No point in downshifting to pass - you really don't need to anyway.
Isn't is 5750? Does HP equal torque at 5750 rpms on all engines? I think I've heard something like that before.
HP=torque at 5750 for all engines - doesn't sound logical or believable to me, but what do I know?
As far as the brakes. 20% is significant. But nothing that a good sized drum can't handle. Just like on the heavier MPV and Trubute which are not available with discs.
As far as 100 mph driving. Come down to the southern states. It's pretty commonplace to see lines of cars going in the 90's to 100 mph on the open road. Not that it's only here that it happens. I've done 150 on that stretch of 85 in VA between NC and Richmond. With the trees so close...What a rush.
- bellow 5700 rpm -> 2.0l has bigger torque and hp than the 1.8l
- above 5700 rpm -> 2.0l has smaller torque and hp than the 1.8l.
Bruno
- There is about 25% increase of power from 3700 to 4750 rpm. Again this is from the dyno test at the wheel.
Bruno
80 mph = 80x1760x36/60 inches/minute = 84480 inches/minute.
The diameter of 195/50R16 wheel is 23.6772 inches.
The wheel circumference = pi*23.5772" = 74.3840".
At 80 mph, the wheel rpm is : 84480/72.3840 = 1135.7 rpm.
As the final drive and the fifth gear ratio given by Mazda are 4.105 and 0.755, the engine rpm should be:
1135.7*4.104*0.755 = 3520 rpm.
Sorry G35, the number you gave (4000 rpm) is way off.
Bruno
I did hit 110mph once in VA on tree-lined 95 (I was driving around 10:30 at night too though), but didn't stay there long. No sooner did I slow down then there was a cop on the side of the road.
I don't know all the calculations and don't really care to be blunt. I just remember driving my own car, and what the gauges said. I also didn't have aftermarket tires/wheels to throw anything off either, so I don't know if my gauges were wrong or not.
Who wanted pictures of the Protege's rear suspension?
Stock:
With AWR sway bar installed:
The "red bar" on the MP3 is the sway bar. Most cars have these, but not as beefy.
95 is usually crowded enough for you to either follow someone or watch for brake lights to tell you where the cops are.
g35 and bluong are discussing the 5 speed. The ratios (final and top gear) are totally different. Also, the average speedo/tach has a smaller error than 5%, but they're only required to be within 10%.
"we found that the engine note got a bit discordant at times."
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/45994/article.html
Wait a minute Bluong had a typo in his equation. AND he gave 3700 RPM which is also wrong.
Very in-depth, a must read.
I've never heard of the Pro's suspension being called this....only TTL.
According to the MazdaUSA site, RX-8 has a multi-link. No beam.
I'm assuming it's a typo. And I seriously doubt the "zoom-zoom" company is going to have a beam (or live) axle on their rear wheel drive sports car.
Please check it out to make sure I'm not nuts...
www.mazda.ca
IIRC, the TTL is first developped in the 80s and first used by Mazda on the RX7 at the time. But succesive generations of RX7 have multilink rear suspension.
Bruno
I just get in the thing and drive away
I can’t worry ‘bout the rear end sway
I can’t do crap about it
Anyway.
Suddenly
We argue every day, it seems to me
We can’t agree on anything--oh, glory be
We need to relax, it’s just a
Protegé!
I am
Such a dork
Don’t know ‘bout
Torque
And never will.
I think
The car is great
And this debate
Is getting ooooooooollllllllddddddddddd
Protegé
I’m about to get right in and drive away
Traffic will suck today, but that’s okay
‘Cause I’ll be stuck in my
Protegé
--Dale
Anyway, the Protege has been running great. It should, it only has 24,000 miles on it. It has taken me almost 2 years to get to this mileage so I don't know if I'll ever be able to see 200,000 miles in it. I need to start driving it more and getting my money's worth out of the Mobil 1. Oh yeah, I don't think the TTL works very well with winter tires. They suck so bad that you can't corner hard enough for the TTL to kick in. I put these spongy things on a week or so ago, and it's been warm here ever since. It was frickin raining today. In the middle of December. In Minnesota.
I wanna memorize it and sing it when I;m happily driving in my sport-sedan Protege
Let me have my fun, all rite? Please no discussion on why the PRO is or isn't a sport sedan
Dinu
Now I read that Mazda is offering 0.0% APR on new 2003 models. Am I better off buying a 2003 with the great financing, or spending $10K for a 2001 LX? I don't want these teenagers to have a new car. Insurance premiums will cost more, and I don't think it's right to give a brand new driver a brand new car! The "learning" car has been a 2000 Saturn LS with V6 engine. This car has 33K miles and is my husband's car. I could let the kids drive this car and my husband could have the 2003 Protege.
Any advice?
And I wouldn't call anybody a 'jackass'...folks were just getting, um, er, 'enthusiastic.'
I think it would be dangerous to sit anywhere else at that speed. No?
The Pro is geared very low, makes a lot of torque in 1st through 3rd, which I find to be a real pain in stop and go traffic and parking lots. My only complaint with the car. I'm constantly on the clutch in low speeds.
1. One year's less depreciation
2. A longer warranty (4 yrs/50,000 mi instead of 3 yrs/50,000 miles)
3. The usual upgrades that occur from one model year to the next.
I don't think that 2002's can get 0% financing so that means you are left with whatever the factory to dealer cash incentive is. Of course, if you don't qualify for the 0%, you just take the rebate cash, but I'm pretty sure that the difference between the 02 and the 03 is only about $500-$1000 (not enough to warrant getting an 02 instead of an 03 IMHO). Hope this helps.