Subaru Crew: Official SOA Presence (aka Patti)

bat1161

Patti,

Just wanted to say "thank you" for your "unofficial" phone call about my car. I'll see Monday what happens.

Mark

hondafriek

This topic should be in the cafe, so my last word on it here is to Bigelm,

If your company will not move the insurance to you as the primary driver with more years tell them to stuff it and find a new company, what they are telling you is pure bullcrap.

  Yeah but Frank 40 below is part of the charm of living here:-)
  
 Cheers Pat.

subaru_team

me a bit more quickly (even though I read most of the other boards), but entertaining me is nice too! I won't say what I pay in insurance, but I hope our insurer doesn't read this and raise the rates!!

Patti

bigelm

I think it's time to shop around again...

fibber2

I logged on late to the chat (got home late from work, and had to put the baby to bed, etc.), after you had exited. Excuses, excuses..... Pat was kind enough to pass on your regards to me.

Anyhow, I sent you pics and a follow-up note. Did you receive them?

Steve

ateixeira

Thanks again for the NAIAS invite, SoA and Patti.

Check Future Models in case you slept through the last 5 days. We were just 2 posts away from being the #1 topic yesterday. Tomorrow maybe?

-juice

goneskiian

Yup. You got it today juice!

-Ian

ateixeira

Sweet. )

Back to #2 today, but weekends are generally very slow. Conversation should pick back up on Monday.

-juice

subearu

FYI: it's not wise to link to the 'other' forum...

-Brian

paisan

Did you actually talk to SOA or are you doing this all through the dealer. Definitely seems like there is more to this story than meets the eye...

-mike

PS: There are a lot of bad dealers out there.

jack1234567

There is a dealer rep, from soa, he came out and looked at the engine with the dealer, and without me being present. I asked the dealer and soa repeatedly to let me meet with this dealer rep and was not allowed to do so. I was told by the dealer and soa that the rep is not for customers to talk to. soa's official response to me was that they go by their dealers recomendations. and when i told them that the dealer said they would warranty but rebuked soa told me to take that up with the dealer.

hypov

jon_in_ct Jan 11, 2004 9:34pm

quote from NASIOC
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
[QUOTE]
Maybe you should call SCI and find out why they haven't issued a recall.

In the US, people who experience the problem should file a complaint with NHTSA by filling out a Vehicle Owner Questionaire (see http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm). NHTSA began its defect investigation of the WRX ABS after about 50 complaints were logged. There are currently only about 5 complaints there about smelling leaking fuel.

The definitive NASIOC thread about this problem (168 posts long) is:
Raw Fuel Smell Log

As to why SOA hasn't issued a recall, I have no idea. If they ever do, it'll be expensive because of the labor necessary (hours) to effect each repair. SOA's TSB about the problem carefully avoided using the word "leak."
[/QUOTE]

Value of the info aside, first it's the ABS, now...
Is there something between you and SoA going? I'm sensing some sort of personal battle.

-Dave

hypov

or autosoundpro?

"Sue Subaru!!!"
So, if you feel that you have exhausted all leads and elects to sue... why do we, I for one, on this board need to know that?
Not like we can help.
If you're here in hopes that there might be a chance that Patti can turn things around for you, you probably had slammed the door in your own face.

-Dave

hypov

Micheal-
Who's characterizing? I said "I'm sensing".
My recollection, on this board, both his appearances were rather edged [as in blade]and/or bulldozee; hence, my asking.

-Dave

fibber2

One of my co-workers, Jay, walked into my office to tell me his WRX was in the shop. Seems his fuel rail hose let loose on a 0'F startup this past Friday night.

For better or worse, I have become the local Subaru "collector & disseminator of information, technical advisor / defender of the faith" in my office, so I showed him the TSP.

So how do I feel about the above discussion? First off, I appreciate that others take the time to post issues of concern and share data. We all benefit when problems are aired. But we need to tone down the rhetoric and stick with the facts. No vehicle or manufacturer is perfect. It is perhaps unreasonable for any mfg to rush to hit the 'recall' button until they know if a problem is real, or widespread. TSB are intended to fill that gap and often are the best solution. It gives dealers something to specifically watch out for, and makes them part of the data gathering process.

Steve

Karen_S

....but a few posts have been removed for various reasons.

fibber2

Probably a wise action, but I think you slightly 'over cropped'. Could you restore the TSP, as that could be of real value to some?

Steve

bloodtypeb4

hypov,

I find it very unfair that you intimated that Jon [in CT] has "some sort of personal battle" with SoA.
If you had not so selectively chosen just one of Jons posts from "nabisco" you would have seen that he hardly seems to have a problem with SoA. Jon [in CT], in my opinion, has been a faithful poster at nabisco; providing news threads in that forum and other pertinent Subaru information for the board readers to be informed and educated by. As far as i know Jon makes no money spending those countless hours reporting the news on "nabisco", most of which is good. whatever negative articles he may post about Subaru simply show that he is objective in his reporting/posting and not a sycophant for Subaru; like some other people seem to be.
i have much more faith in the opinion of someone who sounds objective than someone who sounds like a sycophant.

 Jon, i believe, owns a Subaru presently and sounds like he has every intention of buying a new Subaru Legacy in the near future (from what i've read elsewhere); the top of the line, fully loaded (McIntosh and Navi) H6 model. that to me sounds like someone who has no problem with SoA at all. to point out someones defeciencies or shortcomings in no way makes them a "hater". if there has been any criticism by Jon of anything Subaru i believe it was meant to be constructive.

sincerely

bloodtypeB4

ps. hypov, could you tell me how you know my first name? my name is marked as private on my profile.

p0926

Uh oh! There seems to be a disturbance in the force ;-) Is it possible that some of the nabisco crowd are trying to infiltrate our world? Not that they aren't welcome but the rules of comportment are significantly different between the two sites.

-Frank P.

Karen_S

....let's try to be nice. :-) Everyone is welcome in the Town Hall as long as they remember whose yard they are playing in and follow Dad's rules seriously.

p0926

ateixeira

As members let's try to keep this thread constructive.

Work with your dealer, if that fails then work with SoA at 800-SUBARU3.

If you've ever worked a support job, Help Desk or related, you may recall wanting to help nice, corteous people more than rude ones.

Caller A: "This car is a lemon, leaks all the time no matter what I do I want my money back NOW! Call your boss, I'm suing! AAAAAH!"

Caller B: "I'm concerned about a slow coolant leak on the passenger side. It's unusual because I know Subarus tend to be reliable, I've owned several and plan on remaining loyal to Subaru and to your dealer, hopefully to purchase several more in the future. When could you squeeze me in to have a look at this...?"

Honestly, who do you think will get the appt first if both called at the same time?

-juice

bigelm

...would you prefer orange or apple this morning? ;-)

Sometimes you may feel like Caller A but it's Caller B that will get the advantage...

Kill 'em with kindness, and if that doesn't work then just kill 'em with a call to Subaru :-)

lark6

I've said it before but probably not as succintly:

Subarus are better-than-average automobiles but they are not perfect. Some problems are major and can be safety-related; others may not be safety-critical but can detract from the everyday utility and enjoyment of the car.

Active dialogue I've had with Patti and other SoA reps has led to any problems I've had with my car being resolved in a fairly swift and satisfactory manner.

Given Subaru's size and resources as an automaker, that direct dialogue and feedback loops can influence future design and engineering improvements in Subaru products and services. We have already seen that on several occasions.

Ed

jon_in_ct

You people are amazing.

Just got off the phone with 1-800-SUBARU3. I was informed by Adam that there are no circumstances which allow a dealer to perform a TSB repair under warranty when I have not yet experienced the problem described by the TSB. In other words SOA requires that I experience an actual fuel leak before they will correct my fuel line defect.

ateixeira

If you even have one. I'm sure not all of them have the defect.

If they can narrow it down to a certain range of VINs and know those are indeed defective, I'm sure they would recall them.

Resources are finite, they have to target the repairs to the ones that need them.

Look at VW's ignition coil debacle, they could not supply them fast enough. So replacing ones that were not showing symptoms early on meant others could not be driven due to short supply.

If you can show that your fuel line is prone to leak or fail, that's different, they should of course fix it now.

-juice

njswamplands

nygreg

if you can smell fuel, it has to be "leaking". Probably slow enought to evaporate before pooling. Don't give up. Maybe asking to speak to a supervisor at Subaru might help??

Greg

ateixeira

Sorry, I missed that, do you currently have a leak?

Are you just noting a fuel smell? What other symptoms have you noticed?

-juice

hypov

My '98 OB had always emitted the aroma of raw fuel on start-up during the colder temps., however, there aren't any signs of leakage. Maybe your (Jon) WRX is seeping like Greg suggested and by comparison, a leakage has the need for first attention over seeping.
Why is SoA approaching the fix in the manner they are? Juice may have the explanation - there aren't enough parts available to do a blanket fix via a "Service Campaign" or Recall.

-Dave

ateixeira

jon: I read back the last 3 pages and didn't see any posts from you, so maybe I'm missing something. Sorry if I did.

Can you share more info?

-juice

jon_in_ct

Originally posted by ateixeira
jon: I read back the last 3 pages and didn't see any posts from you, so maybe I'm missing something. Sorry if I did.

Can you share more info?

In a now-deleted post from Sunday evening, I pointed out that on January 7, 2004, NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) initiated a new investigation of fuel leaks in the 2002 WRX. The details are at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm?sta- - - rt=1&SearchType=QuickSearch&action_number=PE04002&typ- - - e=QuickSearch&summary=true. I also included a copy of the referenced Technical Service Bulletin (TSB). That can be viewed at http://Jon.in.CT.home.att.net/TSB_09-36-03.gif. I asked for SOA's rationale behind the decision to issue a TSB for this defect instead of conducting a safety recall.

fibber2

Jon - are you currently leaking, or is your query a 'pre-emptive strike'?

Steve

fibber2

Didn't someone traveling with Paisan & crew on the 48hr complain of fuel leaks when in the deep freeze this past week?

Steve

ateixeira

OK, I thought I was going nuts! 8*)

Find a happy place, find a happy place, find a happly place *

Jon - you gonna be down near paisan any time soon? Those guys have the capability to inspect that area, at a minimum.

12 reports so far doesn't really indicate they'll go out and replace all of them. That's a pretty tiny number if you cound the # of WRXs sold.

Still, if you have the symptoms, it can be very annoying. My mom once owned a Chevy with a fuel smell that never went away.

Is it better if you go to recirc mode? Do you know where this fuel lines runs to possibly inspect it yourself? Doesn't help that it's freezing out.

-juice

(*) Finding Nemo reference

nygreg

I think I confused you. Welcome to my world.

I had a cat once drink spilled fuel while I was changing a filter. Started running around and around and then just stopped and fell over.........He ran out of gas.

Greg

hondafriek

Next door neighbour has the same problem with an almost new Pontiac Sunfire, as has his brother with the same vehicle, I Have been over and under and over again both vehicles as has the dealer a dozen times now, so far nothing has been found I have heard of other GM cars with the same problem.

IMHO it take more than a very small # of vehicles to iniate a full scale recall.

  Cheers Pat.

paisan

LetitSnow who was with us had this problem on his legacy wagon. Not sure what the final outcome was of it.

-mike

nygreg

Mike - what pressure does our gas lines run at? Is it possible that when sitting idle there is no pressure in the lines, thus no sign of a leak until your are running?

Greg

mrk610

I have posted in the Outback forums about my leaking head gaskets . Today I took the car in to have the head gaskets replaced . Instead they told me that SOA is not paying for head gasket repairs under warranty. So instead of replaceing the gaskets that put sometype of sealer in the coolant . My service manager stated that he was told Subaru technical support and the DSR to remedy the problem with the sealer .

Have you heard anything pertaining to this issue .

Thanks
Mike K

mrk610

Should i call and get a case # for this issue .

Thanks
Mike K

fibber2

IIRC, typical port fuel injection systems maintain a constant fuel rail pressure of 35psi or so whether at idle or full throttle. When the injector solenoid opens, the line pressure must overcome a check valve spring & deliver a uniform spray pattern. It is the dwell time of the injector solenoid that responds to fuel volume requirements.

Steve

montreal1

Don't want to add fuel (!!) to the fire, but there was several complains of WRX owners about that problem in the last days ( -25 to -30 Celcius whitout the windchill 3 days in a row)in our region.

Seems that the local dealers are doing repairs per the TSB.

I had the same type of problem on a prior Subaru (Legacy 95). Replaced hose clamps (spring type) with plumbing type. When the temp reached -25C or so, kept a screwdriver in the glovebox to retight the clamps

I'm now on my third Subaru and there is nothing else like it (for the $$$$$).

Cheers

ateixeira

Could it be something is contracting with the extreme cold, and the seal is compromised?

Inspect it on the next cold day. To prime the fuel pump pressure, turn the key to the on position but do not start the car. You'll even hear the fuel pump go "whirrr".

Then look for leaks.

-juice

subaru_team

doing something currently that is working well, but I can't really post a lot of details yet. I've been directly involved for awhile on this, and I'm sorry I can't go to far. This is one of those things that my "presence" here makes it a bit of a challenge. There's only so far I can go without the plug getting pulled.

You all have my word that I'll share the moment I can.

Thanks!

Patti

subaru_team

Here's the deal. Jon, I was right next to Adam when your call came in. I did not know it was you on the phone, but I am aware of what he said to you and I don't see a problem with what you were told. If you do have a problem, please call back in tomorrow and I'll review the situation with him again. Maybe he misunderstood and you are having an actual problem?

I am sorry if some of the recent posters here do not like what I do. I'm not being a "sycophant" for Subaru. I all candor, that comment really disturbs me. Jon does a great job searching and posting available materials. I'm sure he'll be glad to help you with that, just as I'll be glad to help you if you are having a problem.

If you are having a problem, bring it to a dealer and see about getting it fixed. If there is a TSB, it'll help the dealer diagnose the concern and if you need us, call us.

If you call us because there is a TSB on your vehicle and you expect us to do a repair at our expense because of the mere existance, we wouldn't be in business for very long. By definition, a Technical Service Bulletin provides repair information. Sometimes it is an improved repair procedure, sometimes it's updated parts or ways to cut cost (to the consumer) for repairs. It is not a recall.

If you "read" something and want to have work done to prevent something that "may" happen, because you are concerned - go ahead and get it done. We cannot pay for something under warranty when there is no defect.

We take all NHTSA investigations seriously. That being said, folks contacting NHTSA can create a report for anything they choose. Once the number or issue reaches the criteria for NHTSA's requirements, they do an investigation. Usually, we're already checking out the issue. When folks contact them or us to report a concern that they have heard about but haven't experienced, the waters get muddied and it really slows us down in sorting out the issue and resolution.

So, sorry if you aren't happy - but if you have a problem with your car, we'll do what we can to help. I can't follow the flow of the other issues with the deleted messages, so call us. But we will need your actual name, dealer name and VIN to get involved.

Patti

p0926

If you "read" something and want to have work done to prevent something that "may" happen, because you are concerned - go ahead and get it done. We cannot pay for something under warranty when there is no defect.

That seems like a perfectly sensible business practice to me :-)

-Frank P.

dcm61

Great job at explaining the hows and whys of TSBs and NTHSA.

Thanks for taking the time to write the message.

DaveM

subaru_team

to start my day off nicely! Thanks for the feedback. Hey - we have snow on the way here in the East. Time to get ready to go out and drive!!

Patti

ateixeira

I don't think any reasonable person thinks that way of you.

Our gracious hosts will delete any name calling like that (already have I believe?), it's improper and won't be tolerated.

Patti has a gutsy job, puts herself in harm's way. The least we can do is treat her with respect.

-juice