Pretty good and compelling argument, IMO. So using these numbers, it will appear that a lightly loaded IS350 will sticker lower than its comparable 330i competitor (by $2 - 5K range)? That should give the new IS a fighting chance of luring some Bimmer crowd over to check it out.
Lexusguy: Maybe you should change your moniker to Nissanguy, since you seem to post more about Nissan/Infiniti than about Lexus. Just an observation tho'.
When the dust settles, Lexus will remain well ahead of Infiniti in prestige and brand recognition for sometime to come. The new IS350 will also put a dent into the G sales going forward, maybe more so than the Bimmer sales. But I will expect more sales from MB and Audi converts than from BMW converts to the new IS.
Guess we'll see how these things shake out afterall....
Well I actually drive an LS430, so I think the name still fits. If I was in the market for a midsize sports sedan though, I think I would probably go with M rather than GS. I am very curious to see what happens with the LS and Q in 2007. I think the LS460 is going to be an amazing car, Nissan really has their work cut out for them.
Pretty good and compelling argument, IMO. So using these numbers, it will appear that a lightly loaded IS350 will sticker lower than its comparable 330i competitor (by $2 - 5K range)? That should give the new IS a fighting chance of luring some Bimmer crowd over to check it out.
What? If the IS350 starts at 35k wih leather and sport, xenon and moon add at minimum 3k to the cost, then you're looking at 38k. Anyone can get a comparable 330i with those features for 35.5k (before bmw cca rebate of $500).
Blueguy: Do you really think Lexus is going to pick its MSRP to compete with the ED Invoice pricing of BMW? That is absurd. The BMW you mention has a MSRP of 41795 with real (metallic) paint and and auto (for an apples to apples comparision). So an IS350 with the same options can have a MSRP of $39295 and still be $2500 cheaper. And this is without a nav system or the fancy tech toys.
Blueguy: Do you really think Lexus is going to pick its MSRP to compete with the ED Invoice pricing of BMW? That is absurd. The BMW you mention has a MSRP of 41795 with real (metallic) paint and and auto (for an apples to apples comparision).
The automatic is not an apples to apples comparison as Lexus is forcing that tranny on buyers. It's not BMW's fault Lexus refuses to offer buyers a choice.All of us who will check out the IS350 will get it anyway we want it...as long as we want it model T style: one way.
Regardless, we'll see when official pricing comes out. I have a feeling a comparably equipped IS350's gonna have an MSRP that's pretty much right in line with 330i pricing (maybe 1k lower). There is a 9k price difference between the GS300 and 430. We're being generous guessing the IS350 will only be 5k more expensive than the IS250.
So yeah, i think Lexus should follow the example of Infiniti and Acura and price their 3 series competitor 4-5k lower than the 330i when outfitted the same way. Where's the value in paying 2-3-4k more for a Lexus than I will pay for an e90?
I like paddle shifters almost as much as manuals; I liked Toyota's in the MR2. Pricing aside, I think that the IS350 would be a steal even if it was as expensive as a 330i. 310hp is a lot for a smaller sedan, even if it's not a full manual. Then again, BMW's are always fun (unless it comes time to turn on the air conditioning in the 7 series) However, I might just wait for the IS conv. to come out >:]. The IS also looks like it has a very low CD. It also has a killer lookin stereo. I, at least, am waiting to find out how light or heavy this IS350 will be. Those things matter to me more than moonroofs and navi systems. I'm all for the ride, and whichever one is better, I will buy. Unless the IS350 starts at more than 40k, it's on my list. Then again, so is the 330i.
And reading Jet magazine, I've come up with the formula for Lexus' IS:
Obviously, the two model strategy has BMW written all over it, so expect pricing to be similar ($31k for the entry-level, $38k for the 350)
A $5k spread is optimistic, given the power disparity is greater than in the GS (245-300), so a 7k spread sounds about right.
The 350 WILL NOT get a manual tranny. Lexus has taken it's "Hedge" position, using the manumatic, saving cost of introducing a manual of enough strength to handle this engine. Dealers will push MT-men to try the buttons on a test drive, while getting sold on the looks, chassis and features. I think the chassis will be spot on, as the looks and features are, so this "hedge" has long-term potential.
The IS is woefully underpowered in this class, and will be a tougher sell than Lexus thinks.
The 350 will be in short supply for a while, and disgruntled 250 shoppers, and disgruntled GS300 shoppers will end up on this line!
Conclusion: Even though this car will sell 50-60k in it's first 12 months, it will only be a double, not a Home Run. Lexus has dropped the ball.
One model with 275HP and two trannys, starting at $33k, a hybrid (2007 - $38k), convertible/coupe(2008 - $40k), and THEN a lower-strength model (2008.5 - 230HP - $30-31k) would have TAKEN the market!
BMW, Infiniti, Acura, would all lose share to Lexus. It would still be the most powerful of the "Compact" Near-luxury class (A4, 3, IS), but strong enough to lure the "Midsize" intenders with it's looks, power, and marque.
20HP ahead of BMW, but $2k cheaper, put a nice Pkg of Leather, roof, and wheels on it for $1995 (still under $35k total), and there would be no stopping it.
I give them credit for nailing the look, though. Not a pimple on it!
This month's issue has a test of the Avalon with the 3.5L V6. Approx. 3600lbs., a 5-speed automatic and 280bhp, it did 0-60 in 6 seconds flat! Personally this sounds promising for the performance potential of the IS350. Approx. 30more BHP, a extra cog in the automatic, and the low 5's definately seems likely for the IS350.
I just hope folks are not too depressed when it turns out that even with a 55HP advantage over the 330, the IS350 can't do any better than the 5.6s 0-60 the 330 has already posted.
It's not just about HP, is it ? How 'bout the 280Ib ft of torque ? Let's look at the spec sheets of both, let's see them go head-to-head in a comparo, lets see where they stack up feature-wise and price-wise, and then decide which is the better car, which is the value car, and which is the car to beat ???
The June 05 edition of the Winding Road magazine tested the 06 330i sport vs the new S4. The 330i/6MT came in at 6.1s in the 0-60 dash, while the S4 clocked in at 5.3s. They raved about the Bimmer tho', and while they weasled out of picking a *winner* outright, reading b/w the lines one can tell its gotta be the Bimmer. Can the IS350 come anywhere close to the ride, suspension and handling of the new Bimmer ? It looks like it will be a miracle for Lexus to outperform this e90 which is better than any previous 3-series, if one can believe that....
In the same article, they tested a 300C SRT8 with 425HP/420Ib ft of torque. This car did a 5s flat 0-60mph. All for a whopping $40K base. Loaded to the hilt, you can drive one home for $45K !!! That is just scary to imagine such a big car with so much under the hood, and that darn cheap ....
BGDC: This one is for you. Winding Road price of the *as tested* 330i with sport suspension, leather seats, folding rear seats, and 6MT, was about $42K. So I'd like to know how you'd get a 330i similarly spec-ed for the kind of prices you throw out here....
"In the same article, they tested a 300C SRT8 with 425HP/420Ib ft of torque. This car did a 5s flat 0-60mph. All for a whopping $40K base. Loaded to the hilt, you can drive one home for $45K !!! That is just scary to imagine such a big car with so much under the hood, and that darn cheap .... "
You also get to enjoy the mpg of a Chevy Suburban. Actually, Suburban owners dont have to pay guzzler tax. Wow, another bonus!
BGDC: This one is for you. Winding Road price of the *as tested* 330i with sport suspension, leather seats, folding rear seats, and 6MT, was about $42K. So I'd like to know how you'd get a 330i similarly spec-ed for the kind of prices you throw out here....
Do i need to do a screenshot from BMWUSA.com? Better yet, you go there and do it yourself. The winding road review had features they didn't mention to push the price that high. Mags/pubs get stuff wrong or leave things off the list. I saw a review from the AP the other day of the A4. They kept saying the car has a 3.1 liter v6. Hmmm, interesting as Audi/VW uses a 3.2 as an option in most of its line...including the A4. 330i with metallic paint, leather, sport and PDC = 40,870. ED price on the car is 34960 before dealer profit. I can do that number in my sleep.
In the same article, they tested a 300C SRT8 with 425HP/420Ib ft of torque. This car did a 5s flat 0-60mph. All for a whopping $40K base. Loaded to the hilt, you can drive one home for $45K !!! That is just scary to imagine such a big car with so much under the hood, and that darn cheap ...
The insane inefficiency of the SRT8 makes the car pretty worthless for long drives. The Lexus IS350, like its main comp the 330i - gets 30+mpg on the freeway.
The 300 SRT-8 gets terrible gas mileage, but I've heard it's fun The 330i is really small on the inside, but I've heard it's fun The IS350 doesn't have a manual, but I've heard it's fun
Somethin' tells me that most of the target buyers of the SRT-8 don't really care about gas mileage. And even at 42 large, it is a pretty nice deal. However, you'll waste most of that saved money on gas :P Now all they need is a 300 conv. Eh, but back to the IS.
In my experience with BMW and the 3 Series, it has been almost impossible to find a 330i in the past that didn't have that $@%&! SMG in it. At least at my dealer. So you'd have to special order a 330i and then it didn't come in and errrrg. (bad experience from a couple of years back.)
I think that the IS250 will have to start at less than 30k for people to pick it over a 325i. Lexus probably knows this. I mean, they aren't too stupid.... They have a big ol' task ahead of them, and it all depends on the pricing of the base model. I don't particulary care how much the IS350 costs (let them eat cake, eh?) as long as it starts at under 40k. That engine looks a pretty pretty good on paper....
The IS looks nothing like a tC to me. It looks a lot classier and less.... blobby. Not that the tC is ugly.... :P
"I saw a review from the AP the other day of the A4. They kept saying the car has a 3.1 liter v6. Hmmm, interesting as Audi/VW uses a 3.2 as an option in most of its line...including the A4."
Actually, in this case the magazine is right and you are wrong (haw haw!) The engine in the A4 is Audi's new 255hp FSI V6. It displaces 3.1L. Audi just calls it a 3.2 because 3.1 is a wierd number to put on the back of a car. If you read more automags, you'd know that
It is from Ward's 10 Best Engines. You can clearly see that the Audi "3.2" is really a 3.123 L engine.
Can't blame the marketing machine at Audi for streching the truth, the FSI in the 3.1L engine improves performance so much they wanted to use 3.2 to distinguish it more from the old 3.0.
man im in the market for a new car - im in my twenties. I looked at Toyota and was considering the avalon- then again it's too big and not my style. Honda doesnt really have anything either. My budget is $35k. Any suggestions???
- are you really looking for a new car? If so, what do you value in a car?
"You looked at Toyota and was considering the Avalon" - so you said you were "considering" the Avalon? At what point did you notice it was "big" and "not your style" - this was not obvious when you walked up to the car?
If you are really in the market for a new car, read a couple of mags and/or consumer reports...then check the forum(s) for a particular model(s) features/price and owner insights. What do your friends drive? Why?
If you are actually in the market for a new car...
first i thought the avalon was kinda cool- but then i thought about it and decided it is too big and too much of a family car. I want a car that handles well; V6 - 250+hp. Something that will last long. I wanted to get a BMW but i heard those things break down all the time and are very expensive to fix. I thought about the TL- read some reviews on it. People say that it has problems after 40k miles or so. I've also heard about the new Lexus IS. So i wanted to know wha tyou guys would suggest. Wait for the new IS? if not, then which car shoud i get? BMW G35 or TL? thanks
man im in the market for a new car - im in my twenties. I looked at Toyota and was considering the avalon- then again it's too big and not my style. Honda doesnt really have anything either. My budget is $35k
BMWs are way toooo expensive...
You can pick up a 330i starting at 30k. Check the edmunds european delivery boards for more info. Don't believe the junk that bimmers are expensive. If you really want one, you can easily get into an e90 330i for less than 35k.
otherwise the g35 is a nice, cheap alternative.
If I go back to bimmer, my car with the necessary options (sport, leather...xenon/moon are standard) will cost me right around 35k.
If you add the Premium Package, you can come in nicely at just around $35,000. The Premium Package has a lot of nice stuff. (Power Sunroof, 4 Auto Up/Down windows, etc)
If you want the opposite of a Toyota Avalon, with just as many horses, and dont want to wait, the G35 is the way to go. Take blueguy's "$30K BMW 330i" with a grain of salt. You can actually GET a G35 for $31K MSRP. A comparibly equipped BMW WILL cost thousands more than the G35. According to bmwusa.com, the 330i starts at $36K MSRP, and will shoot up from there in a hurry. $36K at the Infiniti dealer on the other hand will get you a fully loaded car.
The TL is another worth while option. Its a little more luxurious and a little softer than the G. Another often ignored possibility is the Volvo S60R. Its smaller than the G and TL, more 3 series or IS300 in size, but with the manual tran its VERY fast. Avoid the automatic though, it kills the engine.
There is a certain G35 love fest here.... seeing that the consensus suggestion to Saigonboi21 seemed to be the G35. Now this gentleman is posting his request in the IS forum, and all he gets are *buy the G35* chorus..... No one even remotely mentioned he could wait for the next IS to see if it meets his needs....
So Saigonboi21, in the spirit of this forum being the next IS, I'd suggest, assuming you can wait a couple of months, to see what the new IS has to offer in the $35K range. Chances are high this car will be out for sale by end of August. The car looks great (inside and out), and seeing the spec sheet, I'd wait to really see the 310HP IS350 on the road, how it drives, handles and performs on dry pavement. Chances are that if you'd compromise on the HP, maybe a loaded IS250 AWD may be in the cards as well...
BGDC: Are you still warming to this e90 ? Its 255HP is doing the low to mid 6s 0-60mph in tests, while the IS350 is rated in the mid-5s by Lexus.... AutoBild certainly had lots of issues with the motor. And if the IS350 comes in cheaper or about same in price to the 330i, would you still go with the Bimmer ? Just curious....
Is it just me, or does Lexus have something in reserve for the IS? It seems like with the base model of both the GS and IS, the engine offering seems weak. I assume this was done intentioanlly so that if sales falter they can throw more HP at the problem (not enough HP to start). So the GS300 will jump to the GS350 next year and the IS250 will jump to.......
This topic is for discussion about the upcoming Lexus IS. If you're still shopping around, I suggest that you visit our discussion called Help Me Choose! on our Sedans board.
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I think us G35 people were under the consensus that Saigonboi21 needed a car very soon and therefore couldn't wait until August.
I would suggest waiting since at August it's closeout time and you can get a great deal on the outgoing IS300 or a 2005 G35 (when the 2006 ones come out) if the IS350 isn't to your liking.
You might want to test drive these: Lexus IS300 Lexus IS350 Infiniti G35 BMW 330i
And if you go for the 330i, you might have to take European Delivery to get in at under $35,000. Otherwise you can get a 325i with a few options for around that price.
Are you still warming to this e90 ? Its 255HP is doing the low to mid 6s 0-60mph in tests, while the IS350 is rated in the mid-5s by Lexus.... AutoBild certainly had lots of issues with the motor. And if the IS350 comes in cheaper or about same in price to the 330i, would you still go with the Bimmer ? Just curious....
One word: yes. The 330i MT6 with ZSP is better than the e46 ZHP in every way - better road feel, better handling, faster, stronger engine, more linear engine, smoother ride. The car rockets and holds like glue in a way no other car in this class can. I've driven the MB and audi models and they don't even hold a candle to the e90. The consensus on other boards seems to be that bmw took the best and made it better.
If the IS350 comes in cheaper (undoubtedly it'll be more expensive though) and has a good tranny, it wins for me. At the same price point (35-36k with features I demand - moon, xenon, sport) and manual it flat must outperform mthe e90. Same price point with automatic and even same performance, it loses.
Given Lexus' price creep, it's doubtful the car will be priced at a level i'd find acceptable.
Well, I really need to get the whole thing on this new 3 series. I've heard some people say it's the best thing since sliced bread, and I've heard some say that it.... well... stinks! I'll test drive one this weekend.(This isn't particularly for anyone's education, I just want and excuse to drive a car :P )
Thanks for posting those Lexus links to the IS specs. There is also a flash page with availability date - October 2005. (Not new news, really, but there has been some speculation (perhaps hope is a better word) of as early as August.)
The IS350 is still pretty much an unknown at this point. The 310\280 figure seems to be official, but nobody knows what it actually drives like yet. Once the IS actually makes it to dealerships, I would suggest lengthy test drives of both cars. Also, if you havent given an '05 G35 a thorough exam, I would highly recommend a test drive. The IS350 will have to really deliver on all counts in order to beat the G.
I honestly dont see much of a point in trying the current IS. The new car is such a radical depature (and improvement) that there would be no reason to even consider the current car. It would be like test driving a 635CSi from the '80s while waiting for BMW to come out with the 645Ci.
IS350 is not an unknown, LG. Maybe an unknown to the common people on the streets, and the car mags here, but this car has been in tests for a long time. I am here in Tokyo and just posted on the 2007 LS board on the news tidbits I found here in a car mag just came out this week. The IS350 is rated at 315HP in Japan. And that is a fact. Driving impressions ? Not posted. But I'd expect it to come soon enough. But read somewhere the IS350/6AT tested a flat 5s 0-60mph in Japan ! Cannot recall or confirm where I read that tho'....
BTW, for you LG since you are such an avid Infiniti guy. The 3rd gen GT-R has the VQ35DETT 3.5L (3498cc) engine rated at 408HP @ 6400rpm, with a torque of 510Nm (what is that in Ib ft ?) @ 4000rpm. That is outstanding !!!
1) This discussion is not about choosing a vehicle. I posted the links to appropriate topics yesterday. 2) This discussion is not about BMW sales.
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Comments
When the dust settles, Lexus will remain well ahead of Infiniti in prestige and brand recognition for sometime to come. The new IS350 will also put a dent into the G sales going forward, maybe more so than the Bimmer sales. But I will expect more sales from MB and Audi converts than from BMW converts to the new IS.
Guess we'll see how these things shake out afterall....
You said it not me. Wasn't the point of my post, this time.
M
What? If the IS350 starts at 35k wih leather and sport, xenon and moon add at minimum 3k to the cost, then you're looking at 38k. Anyone can get a comparable 330i with those features for 35.5k (before bmw cca rebate of $500).
Enjoy, cybersol
The automatic is not an apples to apples comparison as Lexus is forcing that tranny on buyers. It's not BMW's fault Lexus refuses to offer buyers a choice.All of us who will check out the IS350 will get it anyway we want it...as long as we want it model T style: one way.
Regardless, we'll see when official pricing comes out. I have a feeling a comparably equipped IS350's gonna have an MSRP that's pretty much right in line with 330i pricing (maybe 1k lower). There is a 9k price difference between the GS300 and 430. We're being generous guessing the IS350 will only be 5k more expensive than the IS250.
So yeah, i think Lexus should follow the example of Infiniti and Acura and price their 3 series competitor 4-5k lower than the 330i when outfitted the same way. Where's the value in paying 2-3-4k more for a Lexus than I will pay for an e90?
Loving it when automakers compete,
Chris :shades:
Having a beer (or three) and a bag of pretzels.
Watching a couple of CSI's back-to-back.
And reading Jet magazine, I've come up with the formula for Lexus' IS:
Obviously, the two model strategy has BMW written all over it, so expect pricing to be similar ($31k for the entry-level, $38k for the 350)
A $5k spread is optimistic, given the power disparity is greater than in the GS (245-300), so a 7k spread sounds about right.
The 350 WILL NOT get a manual tranny. Lexus has taken it's "Hedge" position, using the manumatic, saving cost of introducing a manual of enough strength to handle this engine. Dealers will push MT-men to try the buttons on a test drive, while getting sold on the looks, chassis and features. I think the chassis will be spot on, as the looks and features are, so this "hedge" has long-term potential.
The IS is woefully underpowered in this class, and will be a tougher sell than Lexus thinks.
The 350 will be in short supply for a while, and disgruntled 250 shoppers, and disgruntled GS300 shoppers will end up on this line!
Conclusion: Even though this car will sell 50-60k in it's first 12 months, it will only be a double, not a Home Run. Lexus has dropped the ball.
One model with 275HP and two trannys, starting at $33k, a hybrid (2007 - $38k), convertible/coupe(2008 - $40k), and THEN a lower-strength model (2008.5 - 230HP - $30-31k) would have TAKEN the market!
BMW, Infiniti, Acura, would all lose share to Lexus. It would still be the most powerful of the "Compact" Near-luxury class (A4, 3, IS), but strong enough to lure the "Midsize" intenders with it's looks, power, and marque.
20HP ahead of BMW, but $2k cheaper, put a nice Pkg of Leather, roof, and wheels on it for $1995 (still under $35k total), and there would be no stopping it.
I give them credit for nailing the look, though. Not a pimple on it!
It coulda been a contenda, doh
DrFill
This month's issue has a test of the Avalon with the 3.5L V6. Approx. 3600lbs., a 5-speed automatic and 280bhp, it did 0-60 in 6 seconds flat! Personally this sounds promising for the performance potential of the IS350. Approx. 30more BHP, a extra cog in the automatic, and the low 5's definately seems likely for the IS350.
It's probably just you!
Who the hell would pay $40+ for a scion with LEXUS stamped on it?
It's definitely not you!
By the way, nice first message. Welcome to the forum, and to Edmunds! ;-)
In the same article, they tested a 300C SRT8 with 425HP/420Ib ft of torque. This car did a 5s flat 0-60mph. All for a whopping $40K base. Loaded to the hilt, you can drive one home for $45K !!! That is just scary to imagine such a big car with so much under the hood, and that darn cheap ....
BGDC: This one is for you. Winding Road price of the *as tested* 330i with sport suspension, leather seats, folding rear seats, and 6MT, was about $42K. So I'd like to know how you'd get a 330i similarly spec-ed for the kind of prices you throw out here....
You also get to enjoy the mpg of a Chevy Suburban. Actually, Suburban owners dont have to pay guzzler tax. Wow, another bonus!
And the new IS doesn't look anything like the Scion tC.
And I'm betting that you wouldn't buy a Scion with the slanted L badge on the front and rear.
And I don't think people are exactly buying Jaguars in droves....
Do i need to do a screenshot from BMWUSA.com? Better yet, you go there and do it yourself. The winding road review had features they didn't mention to push the price that high. Mags/pubs get stuff wrong or leave things off the list. I saw a review from the AP the other day of the A4. They kept saying the car has a 3.1 liter v6. Hmmm, interesting as Audi/VW uses a 3.2 as an option in most of its line...including the A4. 330i with metallic paint, leather, sport and PDC = 40,870. ED price on the car is 34960 before dealer profit. I can do that number in my sleep.
In the same article, they tested a 300C SRT8 with 425HP/420Ib ft of torque. This car did a 5s flat 0-60mph. All for a whopping $40K base. Loaded to the hilt, you can drive one home for $45K !!! That is just scary to imagine such a big car with so much under the hood, and that darn cheap ...
That's misleading too as the SRT8 has a 2.1k gas guzzler tax and thus the base is 42k. http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/chrysler/300csrt8/100532866/optionsresults.html?action=2&t- id=edmunds.n.options.ntmv.1.1.Chrysler*
The insane inefficiency of the SRT8 makes the car pretty worthless for long drives. The Lexus IS350, like its main comp the 330i - gets 30+mpg on the freeway.
The 330i is really small on the inside, but I've heard it's fun
The IS350 doesn't have a manual, but I've heard it's fun
Somethin' tells me that most of the target buyers of the SRT-8 don't really care about gas mileage. And even at 42 large, it is a pretty nice deal. However, you'll waste most of that saved money on gas :P Now all they need is a 300 conv.
Eh, but back to the IS.
In my experience with BMW and the 3 Series, it has been almost impossible to find a 330i in the past that didn't have that $@%&! SMG in it. At least at my dealer. So you'd have to special order a 330i and then it didn't come in and errrrg. (bad experience from a couple of years back.)
I think that the IS250 will have to start at less than 30k for people to pick it over a 325i. Lexus probably knows this. I mean, they aren't too stupid.... They have a big ol' task ahead of them, and it all depends on the pricing of the base model. I don't particulary care how much the IS350 costs (let them eat cake, eh?) as long as it starts at under 40k. That engine looks a pretty pretty good on paper....
The IS looks nothing like a tC to me. It looks a lot classier and less.... blobby. Not that the tC is ugly.... :P
Trying not to say too much,
Chris
Actually, in this case the magazine is right and you are wrong (haw haw!) The engine in the A4 is Audi's new 255hp FSI V6. It displaces 3.1L. Audi just calls it a 3.2 because 3.1 is a wierd number to put on the back of a car. If you read more automags, you'd know that
Lexus...this is directly from audi's site:
DOHC all-aluminum 90-degree 3.2 V6 with FSI Direct Injection, variable intake valve timing and intake manifold
Displacement: 3.2 liters
Bore: 3.33 in.
Stroke: 3.65 in.
Compression ratio: 12.5:1
Horsepower: 255 hp @ 6,500 rpm
Torque: 243 lb-ft @ 3250 rpm
http://audiusa.com/features_specifications/0,3523,bodyStyleId-1_contentType-26,00.html?bod- ystyle=a4sedan&tab=specifications
You can apologize at any time. Automags are wrong far more often than the manufacturer's info.
It is from Ward's 10 Best Engines. You can clearly see that the Audi "3.2" is really a 3.123 L engine.
Can't blame the marketing machine at Audi for streching the truth, the FSI in the 3.1L engine improves performance so much they wanted to use 3.2 to distinguish it more from the old 3.0.
BMWs are way toooo expensive...
- are you really looking for a new car? If so, what do you value in a car?
"You looked at Toyota and was considering the Avalon"
- so you said you were "considering" the Avalon? At what point did you notice it was "big" and "not your style" - this was not obvious when you walked up to the car?
If you are really in the market for a new car, read a couple of mags and/or consumer reports...then check the forum(s) for a particular model(s) features/price and owner insights. What do your friends drive? Why?
If you are actually in the market for a new car...
man im in the market for a new car - im in my twenties. I looked at Toyota and was considering the avalon- then again it's too big and not my style. Honda doesnt really have anything either. My budget is $35k
BMWs are way toooo expensive...
You can pick up a 330i starting at 30k. Check the edmunds european delivery boards for more info. Don't believe the junk that bimmers are expensive. If you really want one, you can easily get into an e90 330i for less than 35k.
otherwise the g35 is a nice, cheap alternative.
If I go back to bimmer, my car with the necessary options (sport, leather...xenon/moon are standard) will cost me right around 35k.
Lexus seems to want to make a compromised $30k car and a compromised $40k car, but not a great $35k car.
If you keep the options/price under control, the 325 would be a great pick-up, with a nice, comprehensive warranty (and maintanance).
I'd get the G35 coupe myself. The power advantage is too great to ignore, as is it's intrinsic value vs. the Bimmer. Any G35 is a smart pick.
Get a good deal on an Evo right now
DrFill
You can even get a stick shift if you want!
If you add the Premium Package, you can come in nicely at just around $35,000. The Premium Package has a lot of nice stuff. (Power Sunroof, 4 Auto Up/Down windows, etc)
The TL is another worth while option. Its a little more luxurious and a little softer than the G. Another often ignored possibility is the Volvo S60R. Its smaller than the G and TL, more 3 series or IS300 in size, but with the manual tran its VERY fast. Avoid the automatic though, it kills the engine.
I'm offering him an alternative that is viable. Stop being a hater and just accept people can buy BMWs at prices far below the US MSRP.
So Saigonboi21, in the spirit of this forum being the next IS, I'd suggest, assuming you can wait a couple of months, to see what the new IS has to offer in the $35K range. Chances are high this car will be out for sale by end of August. The car looks great (inside and out), and seeing the spec sheet, I'd wait to really see the 310HP IS350 on the road, how it drives, handles and performs on dry pavement. Chances are that if you'd compromise on the HP, maybe a loaded IS250 AWD may be in the cards as well...
1st = Audi
2nd = MB
3rd = BMW
Read for yourself here....(the English translation)
link title
BGDC: Are you still warming to this e90 ? Its 255HP is doing the low to mid 6s 0-60mph in tests, while the IS350 is rated in the mid-5s by Lexus.... AutoBild certainly had lots of issues with the motor. And if the IS350 comes in cheaper or about same in price to the 330i, would you still go with the Bimmer ? Just curious....
M
That engine was most probably designed specifically for work against the 325i.
I would've taken any other 'Yota V6 over it, but that me.
DrFill
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I would suggest waiting since at August it's closeout time and you can get a great deal on the outgoing IS300 or a 2005 G35 (when the 2006 ones come out) if the IS350 isn't to your liking.
You might want to test drive these:
Lexus IS300
Lexus IS350
Infiniti G35
BMW 330i
And if you go for the 330i, you might have to take European Delivery to get in at under $35,000. Otherwise you can get a 325i with a few options for around that price.
One word: yes. The 330i MT6 with ZSP is better than the e46 ZHP in every way - better road feel, better handling, faster, stronger engine, more linear engine, smoother ride. The car rockets and holds like glue in a way no other car in this class can. I've driven the MB and audi models and they don't even hold a candle to the e90. The consensus on other boards seems to be that bmw took the best and made it better.
If the IS350 comes in cheaper (undoubtedly it'll be more expensive though) and has a good tranny, it wins for me. At the same price point (35-36k with features I demand - moon, xenon, sport) and manual it flat must outperform mthe e90. Same price point with automatic and even same performance, it loses.
Given Lexus' price creep, it's doubtful the car will be priced at a level i'd find acceptable.
As for the IS350, I'm anxious....
BTW, for you LG since you are such an avid Infiniti guy. The 3rd gen GT-R has the VQ35DETT 3.5L (3498cc) engine rated at 408HP @ 6400rpm, with a torque of 510Nm (what is that in Ib ft ?) @ 4000rpm. That is outstanding !!!
2) This discussion is not about BMW sales.
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
BTW, anyone ever see the "Tungsten Pearl" color they have listed? I do not remember this from the GS color choices...
Cheers