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When the dust settles, Lexus will remain well ahead of Infiniti in prestige and brand recognition for sometime to come. The new IS350 will also put a dent into the G sales going forward, maybe more so than the Bimmer sales. But I will expect more sales from MB and Audi converts than from BMW converts to the new IS.
Guess we'll see how these things shake out afterall....
You said it not me. Wasn't the point of my post, this time.
M
What? If the IS350 starts at 35k wih leather and sport, xenon and moon add at minimum 3k to the cost, then you're looking at 38k. Anyone can get a comparable 330i with those features for 35.5k (before bmw cca rebate of $500).
Enjoy, cybersol
The automatic is not an apples to apples comparison as Lexus is forcing that tranny on buyers. It's not BMW's fault Lexus refuses to offer buyers a choice.All of us who will check out the IS350 will get it anyway we want it...as long as we want it model T style: one way.
Regardless, we'll see when official pricing comes out. I have a feeling a comparably equipped IS350's gonna have an MSRP that's pretty much right in line with 330i pricing (maybe 1k lower). There is a 9k price difference between the GS300 and 430. We're being generous guessing the IS350 will only be 5k more expensive than the IS250.
So yeah, i think Lexus should follow the example of Infiniti and Acura and price their 3 series competitor 4-5k lower than the 330i when outfitted the same way. Where's the value in paying 2-3-4k more for a Lexus than I will pay for an e90?
Loving it when automakers compete,
Chris :shades:
Having a beer (or three) and a bag of pretzels.
Watching a couple of CSI's back-to-back.
And reading Jet magazine, I've come up with the formula for Lexus' IS:
Obviously, the two model strategy has BMW written all over it, so expect pricing to be similar ($31k for the entry-level, $38k for the 350)
A $5k spread is optimistic, given the power disparity is greater than in the GS (245-300), so a 7k spread sounds about right.
The 350 WILL NOT get a manual tranny. Lexus has taken it's "Hedge" position, using the manumatic, saving cost of introducing a manual of enough strength to handle this engine. Dealers will push MT-men to try the buttons on a test drive, while getting sold on the looks, chassis and features. I think the chassis will be spot on, as the looks and features are, so this "hedge" has long-term potential.
The IS is woefully underpowered in this class, and will be a tougher sell than Lexus thinks.
The 350 will be in short supply for a while, and disgruntled 250 shoppers, and disgruntled GS300 shoppers will end up on this line!
Conclusion: Even though this car will sell 50-60k in it's first 12 months, it will only be a double, not a Home Run. Lexus has dropped the ball.
One model with 275HP and two trannys, starting at $33k, a hybrid (2007 - $38k), convertible/coupe(2008 - $40k), and THEN a lower-strength model (2008.5 - 230HP - $30-31k) would have TAKEN the market!
BMW, Infiniti, Acura, would all lose share to Lexus. It would still be the most powerful of the "Compact" Near-luxury class (A4, 3, IS), but strong enough to lure the "Midsize" intenders with it's looks, power, and marque.
20HP ahead of BMW, but $2k cheaper, put a nice Pkg of Leather, roof, and wheels on it for $1995 (still under $35k total), and there would be no stopping it.
I give them credit for nailing the look, though. Not a pimple on it!
It coulda been a contenda, doh
DrFill
This month's issue has a test of the Avalon with the 3.5L V6. Approx. 3600lbs., a 5-speed automatic and 280bhp, it did 0-60 in 6 seconds flat! Personally this sounds promising for the performance potential of the IS350. Approx. 30more BHP, a extra cog in the automatic, and the low 5's definately seems likely for the IS350.
It's probably just you!
Who the hell would pay $40+ for a scion with LEXUS stamped on it?
It's definitely not you!
By the way, nice first message. Welcome to the forum, and to Edmunds! ;-)
In the same article, they tested a 300C SRT8 with 425HP/420Ib ft of torque. This car did a 5s flat 0-60mph. All for a whopping $40K base. Loaded to the hilt, you can drive one home for $45K !!! That is just scary to imagine such a big car with so much under the hood, and that darn cheap ....
BGDC: This one is for you. Winding Road price of the *as tested* 330i with sport suspension, leather seats, folding rear seats, and 6MT, was about $42K. So I'd like to know how you'd get a 330i similarly spec-ed for the kind of prices you throw out here....
You also get to enjoy the mpg of a Chevy Suburban. Actually, Suburban owners dont have to pay guzzler tax. Wow, another bonus!
And the new IS doesn't look anything like the Scion tC.
And I'm betting that you wouldn't buy a Scion with the slanted L badge on the front and rear.
And I don't think people are exactly buying Jaguars in droves....
Do i need to do a screenshot from BMWUSA.com? Better yet, you go there and do it yourself. The winding road review had features they didn't mention to push the price that high. Mags/pubs get stuff wrong or leave things off the list. I saw a review from the AP the other day of the A4. They kept saying the car has a 3.1 liter v6. Hmmm, interesting as Audi/VW uses a 3.2 as an option in most of its line...including the A4. 330i with metallic paint, leather, sport and PDC = 40,870. ED price on the car is 34960 before dealer profit. I can do that number in my sleep.
In the same article, they tested a 300C SRT8 with 425HP/420Ib ft of torque. This car did a 5s flat 0-60mph. All for a whopping $40K base. Loaded to the hilt, you can drive one home for $45K !!! That is just scary to imagine such a big car with so much under the hood, and that darn cheap ...
That's misleading too as the SRT8 has a 2.1k gas guzzler tax and thus the base is 42k. http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/chrysler/300csrt8/100532866/optionsresults.html?action=2&t- id=edmunds.n.options.ntmv.1.1.Chrysler*
The insane inefficiency of the SRT8 makes the car pretty worthless for long drives. The Lexus IS350, like its main comp the 330i - gets 30+mpg on the freeway.
The 330i is really small on the inside, but I've heard it's fun
The IS350 doesn't have a manual, but I've heard it's fun
Somethin' tells me that most of the target buyers of the SRT-8 don't really care about gas mileage. And even at 42 large, it is a pretty nice deal. However, you'll waste most of that saved money on gas :P Now all they need is a 300 conv.
Eh, but back to the IS.
In my experience with BMW and the 3 Series, it has been almost impossible to find a 330i in the past that didn't have that $@%&! SMG in it. At least at my dealer. So you'd have to special order a 330i and then it didn't come in and errrrg. (bad experience from a couple of years back.)
I think that the IS250 will have to start at less than 30k for people to pick it over a 325i. Lexus probably knows this. I mean, they aren't too stupid.... They have a big ol' task ahead of them, and it all depends on the pricing of the base model. I don't particulary care how much the IS350 costs (let them eat cake, eh?) as long as it starts at under 40k. That engine looks a pretty pretty good on paper....
The IS looks nothing like a tC to me. It looks a lot classier and less.... blobby. Not that the tC is ugly.... :P
Trying not to say too much,
Chris
Actually, in this case the magazine is right and you are wrong (haw haw!) The engine in the A4 is Audi's new 255hp FSI V6. It displaces 3.1L. Audi just calls it a 3.2 because 3.1 is a wierd number to put on the back of a car. If you read more automags, you'd know that
Lexus...this is directly from audi's site:
DOHC all-aluminum 90-degree 3.2 V6 with FSI Direct Injection, variable intake valve timing and intake manifold
Displacement: 3.2 liters
Bore: 3.33 in.
Stroke: 3.65 in.
Compression ratio: 12.5:1
Horsepower: 255 hp @ 6,500 rpm
Torque: 243 lb-ft @ 3250 rpm
http://audiusa.com/features_specifications/0,3523,bodyStyleId-1_contentType-26,00.html?bod- ystyle=a4sedan&tab=specifications
You can apologize at any time. Automags are wrong far more often than the manufacturer's info.
It is from Ward's 10 Best Engines. You can clearly see that the Audi "3.2" is really a 3.123 L engine.
Can't blame the marketing machine at Audi for streching the truth, the FSI in the 3.1L engine improves performance so much they wanted to use 3.2 to distinguish it more from the old 3.0.
BMWs are way toooo expensive...
- are you really looking for a new car? If so, what do you value in a car?
"You looked at Toyota and was considering the Avalon"
- so you said you were "considering" the Avalon? At what point did you notice it was "big" and "not your style" - this was not obvious when you walked up to the car?
If you are really in the market for a new car, read a couple of mags and/or consumer reports...then check the forum(s) for a particular model(s) features/price and owner insights. What do your friends drive? Why?
If you are actually in the market for a new car...
man im in the market for a new car - im in my twenties. I looked at Toyota and was considering the avalon- then again it's too big and not my style. Honda doesnt really have anything either. My budget is $35k
BMWs are way toooo expensive...
You can pick up a 330i starting at 30k. Check the edmunds european delivery boards for more info. Don't believe the junk that bimmers are expensive. If you really want one, you can easily get into an e90 330i for less than 35k.
otherwise the g35 is a nice, cheap alternative.
If I go back to bimmer, my car with the necessary options (sport, leather...xenon/moon are standard) will cost me right around 35k.
Lexus seems to want to make a compromised $30k car and a compromised $40k car, but not a great $35k car.
If you keep the options/price under control, the 325 would be a great pick-up, with a nice, comprehensive warranty (and maintanance).
I'd get the G35 coupe myself. The power advantage is too great to ignore, as is it's intrinsic value vs. the Bimmer. Any G35 is a smart pick.
Get a good deal on an Evo right now
DrFill
You can even get a stick shift if you want!
If you add the Premium Package, you can come in nicely at just around $35,000. The Premium Package has a lot of nice stuff. (Power Sunroof, 4 Auto Up/Down windows, etc)
The TL is another worth while option. Its a little more luxurious and a little softer than the G. Another often ignored possibility is the Volvo S60R. Its smaller than the G and TL, more 3 series or IS300 in size, but with the manual tran its VERY fast. Avoid the automatic though, it kills the engine.
I'm offering him an alternative that is viable. Stop being a hater and just accept people can buy BMWs at prices far below the US MSRP.
So Saigonboi21, in the spirit of this forum being the next IS, I'd suggest, assuming you can wait a couple of months, to see what the new IS has to offer in the $35K range. Chances are high this car will be out for sale by end of August. The car looks great (inside and out), and seeing the spec sheet, I'd wait to really see the 310HP IS350 on the road, how it drives, handles and performs on dry pavement. Chances are that if you'd compromise on the HP, maybe a loaded IS250 AWD may be in the cards as well...
1st = Audi
2nd = MB
3rd = BMW
Read for yourself here....(the English translation)
link title
BGDC: Are you still warming to this e90 ? Its 255HP is doing the low to mid 6s 0-60mph in tests, while the IS350 is rated in the mid-5s by Lexus.... AutoBild certainly had lots of issues with the motor. And if the IS350 comes in cheaper or about same in price to the 330i, would you still go with the Bimmer ? Just curious....
M
That engine was most probably designed specifically for work against the 325i.
I would've taken any other 'Yota V6 over it, but that me.
DrFill
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I would suggest waiting since at August it's closeout time and you can get a great deal on the outgoing IS300 or a 2005 G35 (when the 2006 ones come out) if the IS350 isn't to your liking.
You might want to test drive these:
Lexus IS300
Lexus IS350
Infiniti G35
BMW 330i
And if you go for the 330i, you might have to take European Delivery to get in at under $35,000. Otherwise you can get a 325i with a few options for around that price.
One word: yes. The 330i MT6 with ZSP is better than the e46 ZHP in every way - better road feel, better handling, faster, stronger engine, more linear engine, smoother ride. The car rockets and holds like glue in a way no other car in this class can. I've driven the MB and audi models and they don't even hold a candle to the e90. The consensus on other boards seems to be that bmw took the best and made it better.
If the IS350 comes in cheaper (undoubtedly it'll be more expensive though) and has a good tranny, it wins for me. At the same price point (35-36k with features I demand - moon, xenon, sport) and manual it flat must outperform mthe e90. Same price point with automatic and even same performance, it loses.
Given Lexus' price creep, it's doubtful the car will be priced at a level i'd find acceptable.
As for the IS350, I'm anxious....
BTW, for you LG since you are such an avid Infiniti guy. The 3rd gen GT-R has the VQ35DETT 3.5L (3498cc) engine rated at 408HP @ 6400rpm, with a torque of 510Nm (what is that in Ib ft ?) @ 4000rpm. That is outstanding !!!
2) This discussion is not about BMW sales.
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MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
BTW, anyone ever see the "Tungsten Pearl" color they have listed? I do not remember this from the GS color choices...
Cheers