Even with the great service I get from Lexus dealerships, I'm never in a rush to head back. I bought my IS300 because I wanted a really fun car that also happened to be dependable. Lexus let me have my cake and eat it too! 2 1/2 years into my lease, not one problem, nothing. That's why I won't do a Bimmer and why I'm going to get the new IS. Maybe some people like spending time taking their cars to dealerships, I have better things to do with my free time, including driving my car. If I had to give up dependability to get a fun sporty car that would be fine, I would do it. Lucky for me and all of us, Lexus doesn't make us settle.
The staunch BMW-ophiles ! This forum seems not right for both of ya. Why ? Cos all you seek is how the IS cannot match up to the Bimmer yada yada... I will eat crow and walk bare naked to the mall if either one of you EVER buy an ISxxx anything. Ain't gonna happen as long as there is a BMW 3-series around, reliable or not.
The current IS300 is an equal of or better match to the 325i in all areas. Only when the car gets matched to the 330i does it fall off just a tad; and its only a tad. So imagine a much better looking and much better speced IS350 to the 330i, with the handling that is part of the IS setup, mated to a 300+HP new dual vvt-i motor, and you have a winner ! That car will make many of you believers forget about your vaunted BMW... Just wait and see....Only a couple more months to seeing this car on the auto rag tracks...
> I'll take the crazy girlfriend who will possibly rob you or disappear for days over > the bland, dependable one any day.
It all depends on how much you have under your name. I didn't mind a girlfriend or a car like that when I was in college and no more than five digits to my name, but nowadays, a dependable and fun one just like an IS (getting back to topic ;-) is much more desirable.
I will eat crow and walk bare naked to the mall if either one of you EVER buy an ISxxx anything. Ain't gonna happen as long as there is a BMW 3-series around, reliable or not.
Kdshapiro said the same thing about me and the 3 when I was in love with the G35. One never knows, I'm open to trying new things...
The current IS300 is an equal of or better match to the 325i in all areas. Only when the car gets matched to the 330i does it fall off just a tad; and its only a tad.
To you it was a tad. To me it's a gulf so big you could hide texas in there. Far, far slower, less agile, less comfortable, and even worse image (shocking that a company could make a car with a worse public image than bmw...but lexus's boy-racer IS300 did just that) and horrible gas mileage.
So imagine a much better looking and much better speced IS350 to the 330i,
Neither car is attractive. The 3's bland and the IS350 is even more banal. It's like comparing the appearances of two Thomas Kinkade pictures...which one is less boring?
with the handling that is part of the IS setup
Original was not a sharp driving car imho. Felt the car was slow to respond, heavy and underpowered (don't worry, I hated the e46 325i too - that car blew so hard I nearly didn't look at a 330i).
, mated to a 300+HP new dual vvt-i motor, and you have a winner ! That car will make many of you believers forget about your vaunted BMW... Just wait and see....Only a couple more months to seeing this car on the auto rag tracks...
I look forward to it. Same mantra - equal handling/feel and a price that matches or is lower than the cost of an ED 330i makes it a competitor.
I don't have a crystal ball to foresee sales figures, comparisions, etc. between the future IS and BMW's, Infinity, etc.
But, based on: A. the intense monitioring of this forum by the BMW faithful and G lovers to "promote" their favorite brand B. the adament sniping against the IS - a car that has not even been driven or reviewed It would seem the Bimmer/Infinity fans (or possibly salemen chiming in the forum) indeed seem worried about the competition - especially when a manufacturer with Lexus's engineering abilities, deep pockets, etc. takes on the segment.
Of course, I am most suprised the BMW folks are not off doing the "ultimate driving" thing versus sitting at a computer sniping at the coming IS...maybe it's in the shop.
Figures ! Since Lexus will probably never sell an IS diesel here when they have the hybrid in the bag, and the market has fully accepted hybrids, unlike diesels...you ain't buying an IS anytime soon.... So why hang out here ???
Oh, about the crow, getting me to eat one is about as possible as you buying a gas-powered IS. Now if that were possible would I not have to actually eat crow for real ?
Dewey, if my car (rotory RX-8 for weekends) were in the shop, I would own up to any reliability issue - not be bragging about "reliability" is for "worried nellies" - (ref. 2798 post). Or looking down my nose at people who are concerned about reliability, or don't have a roundel on the hood, etc. Guess the BMW stereotype has some validity. To each their own - be that an old Impala or an Aston Martin. Actually, I have lived in Bavaria and admire German engineering - but BMW seems to have a "we design them the way WE want them" attitude vs. the Japanese habit of striving to discern and meet customer desires. And, of course, the reliability and value issues.
Lexusguy, "Oh the poor wankel, if it was any good, somebody important would use it": so you are judging my importance as a person based on a comment on a car forum? ...very strange.
New info about the IS? - since there are photos of Lexus dealerships in Japan with IS350's lined up, and Japan sales start by July, hopefully reviews will be coming in shortly...or at least more data or photos.
The new 3 looks like it came from (designed for action) Pontiac without the plastic siding trim. The interior looks like Tyco and Fisher Price were given the contract. Infiniti cost cutting you better see this one same as the 5 only smaller.
Were tryting too hard to be different because we can't look as good and original as the g35 and we know that new IS is going to outperform and look better so we'll keep Mr. Bungle on the payroll and hope for the best. The BMW salesman walks into the Infiniti store and scopes the just released M models. Walks out gloomy "Were screwed again" Love that found it on Freshalloy. Dewey your trying too hard there, your making my laugh with this Lexus has no clout. Guess that's why their developing AMG type cars for the next IS and GS. The New Bmw's are a text book of what NOT to do. Or in laymans terms if it aint broke leave it alone. Guess what the IS leaves out the Playstation joystick for home use only.
"Oh the poor wankel, if it was any good, somebody important would use it": so you are judging my importance as a person based on a comment on a car forum? ...very strange.
Actually I intended that as a cheap shot against Mazda, for their strange obsession with wierd engines nobody else in the automotive world uses like the Miller Cycle and Wankel rotory. I didnt mean you personally.
Thanks for the info on the IS460. Looks pretty KickA.. Suckers' probably going to be 50 - 60 grand Oh well. Still axiously awaiting the arrival of the IS, and much to the disappointment of the the Mario Andretti's here :P, I'm actually really looking forward to the IS250 with the 6'er.
If it disappoints? I'm heading to the Bimmer store, without even slowing down as I drive past the G35, no thanks. :P
There is a similarity in the headlights... but thats not to say that BMW copied the Ford Contour. What I was implying is that people (BMW die-hards) are saying that the Lexus IS250/350 are direct copies of the 3 series...that strikes me as insane...they must be heavily medicated to think THAT!!! Some even say that the headlights of the new IS are copies of the 3 series... and they are serious! I would say that the headlights of the new IS are an EVOLUTION of the IS300...only natural.
neighbor gets a Mini whenever his 325 is in the shop for repairs. He has had the Mini quite a bit the last 2 years and has sworn to buy a MB next time (I have'y been gaul enough to report to him what has happened to Mercedes quality over the past few years). I bought my TSX at the same time as his 325, and my car sits in my garage every night. I would consider a trade for the new IS if they brought the diesel to North America. Alternatively, I would get another TSX if Honda brought their 2.2L diesel over in the car. Can anyone tell me why the Euros get some much selection wrt engines while North America gets 1 or 2?
I love these corporate dudes who like to say that they don't bring diesels over because there is no demand, when, in fact, you couldn't get a diesel in previous years if you tried. So, how do they know? VW, MB and now Jeep have all done exceptionally well by their diesel sales in North America, so why won't the rest of them give us choice also??? Turbo diesels rock.
Diesel car sales in NA are 1\2 of 1% of the auto market. Perhaps things may change when we get low-sulfur diesel in another year or two, but for now, especially that diesel costs as much as premium gas or more in some cases, Americans dont want diesel cars.
The current IS300 is an equal of or better match to the 325i in all areas. Only when the car gets matched to the 330i does it fall off just a tad; and its only a tad.
This has to be in Lexiland only because that is not even close to being true in the real world. The IS300 may match the E46 325i in handling and acceleration, but not much else and forget about comparing it to the 330i. The BMW folk won't care how much "spec" and power the IS350 has with its automatic only tranny and some of the car mags won't either.
Perhaps things may change when we get low-sulfur diesel in another year or two, but for now, especially that diesel costs as much as premium gas or more in some cases, Americans dont want diesel cars.
I suspect this will change when low sulfur diesel arrives and the German luxury brands haven't really pushed diesels yet, the E320CDI is just a placeholder/market test.
We'll see.. but for now the hybrid camp has a lot more members. Even Chrysler is getting into hybrids, which seems a little odd since they have such easy access to MB diesels.
Well I think they'll do both because they're already selling a Liberty diesel. I think like MB they'll do both for different markets. I can't see a U.S. Chrysler diesel car though, too many bad memories from the past at that level. Lexus of course will have to do both, because I can't see a diesel Lexus here, but in Europe its a must for success.
I agree that cleaner diesel will help, as will the fact that the E-class and Jeep diesels are apparently doing very well. Nevertheless, anyone who has driven these turbo diesels cannot help but walk away impressed. I had a Audi A4 turbo diesel in Germany 2 years ago and absolutely loved it. Torque galore, plus the fuel tank would carry you >1100km (~700 miles) even though I was averaging about 140-150kmh (90-95mph). I had a Alfa Romeo sedan turbo diesel a few weeks ago in Italy and it hauled [non-permissible content removed] too, though I wasn't impressed with the car (1970s Pontiac style door handles).
If I were Mitsu, and on the brink of death, the only way to escape is to differentiate yourself from everyone else. That would mean novel designs (Galant is a nice car but clearly run of the Mill) and turbo diesels and 6-speed manuals. Lexus and Acura can do the same thing with their little sedan, as can BMW. I just wish that they would give us the choice. If it failed to sell, then conclude we don't like diesels, but don't say it when you've never given people the option.
A hybrid IS?? That would be a disaster! I strongly believe that all worthy fuel efficient sport sedans will be diesels and not hybrids!
Why?
Hybrids reduce the handling dynamics of a car. The IS supposedly is a sport sedan that emphasizes handling. Put the extra weight of an electrical motor, a humungous battery and hybrid components on an IS and you end up with a overweight turkey.
Oh yes, hybrids do tend to be torquey and that will help acceleration, BUT a comparable torquey turbo diesel will outhandle a hybrid anyday!
Therefore a diesel IS makes much more sense than a hybrid IS. Having said that the success of an IS diesel will also be dependent upon the following four conditions:
1)Low sulphur diesel in 06/07 2)Ability to pass the upcoming new emission standards of 07 3)Educating North American about the virtues of diesel(they have little in common with the Chrysler diesels of the 80s) 4)Diesel prices do not exceed premium gas prices
Unfortunately the fourth condition is beyond any automakers' control.
"...(they have little in common with the Chrysler diesels of the 80s)"
Yikes! Did I do a Rip Van Winkle for ten years? The only diesel that I've been aware of in recent history that could be bought in a Chrysler product (the Liberty not withstanding) was the Cummins Turbo I6 Diesel available in the Dodge Ram truck. While that diesel may not be as clean as the unit in the E320 CDI, or as spirited for that matter, that sucker has TORQUE!!!.
Hmmm, I have no memory of, nor I can find any evidence that a Dodge Omni (or Plymouth Horizon) diesel ever existed here in North America. Was there ever a Talbot/Simca Horizon Diesel sold in Europe? Yes, apparently Talbot had as many as three different diesel engines for the European version of the car.
The 1980s was a long long time ago and I remember the diesel Chevettes a bit too well! Unless I have 1980s amnesia, I can remember seeing a Omni diesel about a quarter century ago in Toronto.
Proof:
If you are among the select few diesel Omni owners you can still order its fuel injection parts and cigar hose:
Well I'll be bathed in sheep dip. How about that? A quick check to www.allpar.com, a site that is dedicated to all things MOPAR (and is usually farily definitive) makes no mention of any Diesel Omnis. Go figure.
Back on topic, I too would be very interested in a new IS with a turbo diesel, hmmm, something like an IS300 CDI, you know, an I6 or a V6 turbocharged (single or dual turbochargers) direct injection diesel with a slick shifting 6-Speed manual. Oh yeah, I'd definitely take that one out for a spin. ;-)
Lexus currently has no plans to do a hybrid IS. As you said, it doesnt really fit with the IS as a sports sedan. Japanese auto is very new to diesel engines, I dont think diesel is big in Japan. If there's demand for the IS220d here I think Lexus will consider it.. but I dont think there's going to be any demand.
The general inatentiveness of the average driver might prevent diesel adoption. The US would lead in the category of "put gas in my diesel engined car". The demand would be there - do you think the 50% rate in Europe is some fluke?
Went to an unfamiliar station, and filled his Sprinter with gasoline.. Didn't realize it until about a half hour later, when the vehicle started smoking.
He went back by the station later (in another truck).. The station had both gas and diesel hoses coming out of the same unit.. He grabbed the wrong one..
I'd also love to see this car in other colors. I expect that we won't have to wait much longer.
I saw the car in person at the NY Auto Show in April - - in silver. They gave me a mini-brochure with pictures of the car - - in silver. Also, I have seen this car pictured in car magazines (Motor Trend, Automobile, etc) - - in silver every time.
Does anyone else think that the original IS suffered from a design (particularly the gauges and dash) that made it seem like the target consumer was a 15 year old?
And does anyone else think that that 2nd generation IS suffers from a design (an exterior nearly indistinguishable from a GS) that make it seem like the target consumer is now a 50 year old?
If LEXUS would put the new dash/interior in a slightly modified version of the old body -- THAT would be a kick-[non-permissible content removed] combination.
"The demand would be there - do you think the 50% rate in Europe is some fluke?"
Its not a fluke. Its heavy tax incentives for diesel fuel. The European nations with the most tax incentives have the highest ratio of diesel to gasoline. We have no incentives. Diesel in the US costs as much as premium gas or more in some areas of the country. Unless we get those kinds of incentives, you'll never see even 25% diesel here.
jrynn, yes I think the design of the first IS was a bit young for its price tag. No, I dont think the 2nd generation is either "indistinguishable from a GS" or targeted to 50+ customers, though at least this time 50+ customers wouldnt be embarrased to be seen in one. Are you trying to tell me that you think the IS and GS are any closer in styling than say A4 and A6, or even 3 and 5?
They are as original and distinctive as cars get these days, without being ugly.
The IS is a particularly bold design. And it sits very low on it's wheels, which almost-young punks like me like. The interior is easy on the eyes. I think young and old will find it agreeable.
It ain't perfect, but I think they prove that Lexus is starting to get this style thing down. These guys are running out of problems to fix! :shades:
I agree, I like the design of the new IS a lot, more than the GS actually, which I think is a bit pudgy in the hind quarters. The IS300 lost to the G35 in 2003, and I'm excited to see round 2. The IS350 should also be mighty quick, as C&D recorded 6 seconds flat to 60 for the Avalon with just 280hp and Toyota's standard 5-speed automatic.
Even if diesel is the cost of premium, the 30% decrease in fuel use makes them worthwhile. Diesel costs more than premium here in Switzerland but there's still lots of diesels sold. I'd venture to guess that the IS220d will outsell the IS250 here.
Don't forget every 1% of market share in the US equates to 170,000 vehicles. Even a modest 10% of sales and we're talking about 1.7 million vehicles. Like the Prius, the problem would be production - not acceptance.
There are not many diesel fans in this forum as you have probably noticed by now!
Reason? I guess fuel economy becomes a distant priority sport sedan buyers ! A majority of N. Amercan sport sedan buyers will make frugal gas consumption a priority only when they are faced with Swiss or European fuel prices.
Anyway, I am among a minority here who will seek a fuel efficient sport sedan---most likely a diesel!
A hybrid? Only if I was buying a car that is not a sport sedan. And only if it is a plug in version that can reach 100mpg!
Ok, so that means the entire market for diesel cars in the US right now is 85,000 cars. Toyota can move more hybrids than that with just the Prius. How will diesel compete with an entire line of Toyota and Honda hybrid cars that can run on cheap 87 octane? The hybrid Escape is a HUGE success, and Ford plans several more hybrids as well. GM, Chrysler, and Nissan are also jumping in.
The E class is not exactly a mass market car here, which leaves basically VW alone to try and convince the US public that its diesels are better. I dont see that happening.
let us discuss how BIG diesels can be in N. America. VW will soon not be the only volume seller of diesels. Honda is joining the diesel party during 2007. Honda the very same company that sells tens of thousands of hybrids. Why is Honda selling diesels simultaneously with its hybrids? Have you checked the insane price premiums for hybrid versions of Civic/Accord! If you did you will realize that Honda will have no choice but to introduce reasonably priced diesels that will sell at high voulmes in the USA. And yes, they will sell at high voulumes if Honda marketing does a good job is showing the the virtue of diesels.
Dont be surprised that in two years Honda will sell both a Hybrid and diesel version of an Accord. And dont be surprised when the diesel Accord outsells the hyrbid Accord.
And when Toyota sees the success of diesels in America, dont be surprised when the IS diesel version will sell in USA during 2008. A bloated and heavy "Hybrid Sport Sedan" is a oxymoron! A oxymoron just like "Sport Hearse Wagon" or a "Ambulance Boulevard Cruiser".
Hybrid versions of most Toyotas and Lexus models make sense! But a hybrid version of every single model will soon be considered senseless by Toyota, especially in the case of a IS. Is it a coincidence that the hybrid IS rumors are currently non-existent? All we hear now are rumors of a gas guzzling IS V8.
Comments
I'll take the crazy girlfriend who will possibly rob you or disappear for days over the bland, dependable one any day.
Even if my 330i breaks down every few months, it's only gone for a day or two. Heck next week I gotta drop it off for a weird software issue.
The current IS300 is an equal of or better match to the 325i in all areas. Only when the car gets matched to the 330i does it fall off just a tad; and its only a tad. So imagine a much better looking and much better speced IS350 to the 330i, with the handling that is part of the IS setup, mated to a 300+HP new dual vvt-i motor, and you have a winner ! That car will make many of you believers forget about your vaunted BMW... Just wait and see....Only a couple more months to seeing this car on the auto rag tracks...
> the bland, dependable one any day.
It all depends on how much you have under your name. I didn't mind a girlfriend or a car like that when I was in college and no more than five digits to my name, but nowadays, a dependable and fun one just like an IS (getting back to topic ;-) is much more desirable.
Kdshapiro said the same thing about me and the 3 when I was in love with the G35. One never knows, I'm open to trying new things...
The current IS300 is an equal of or better match to the 325i in all areas. Only when the car gets matched to the 330i does it fall off just a tad; and its only a tad.
To you it was a tad. To me it's a gulf so big you could hide texas in there. Far, far slower, less agile, less comfortable, and even worse image (shocking that a company could make a car with a worse public image than bmw...but lexus's boy-racer IS300 did just that) and horrible gas mileage.
So imagine a much better looking and much better speced IS350 to the 330i,
Neither car is attractive. The 3's bland and the IS350 is even more banal. It's like comparing the appearances of two Thomas Kinkade pictures...which one is less boring?
with the handling that is part of the IS setup
Original was not a sharp driving car imho. Felt the car was slow to respond, heavy and underpowered (don't worry, I hated the e46 325i too - that car blew so hard I nearly didn't look at a 330i).
, mated to a 300+HP new dual vvt-i motor, and you have a winner ! That car will make many of you believers forget about your vaunted BMW... Just wait and see....Only a couple more months to seeing this car on the auto rag tracks...
I look forward to it. Same mantra - equal handling/feel and a price that matches or is lower than the cost of an ED 330i makes it a competitor.
How do you like your crow?
Crow de la Orange?
Crow stir fried with ginger and onions?
BBQ Crow with Hot and Spicy Sauce?
If there will be a diesel IS I may consider it! So try getting used to crow and please keep your clothes on in the mall.
Oh and by the way I forgot the name of my auto mechanic. I hardly see the guy and he hardly knows me! Not bad with 7 years of driving the same BMW?
Using BlueGuy's comparison:
My car is like a raunchy hot mistress who would never rob you and is fully devoted to you!
But, based on:
A. the intense monitioring of this forum by the BMW faithful and G lovers to
"promote" their favorite brand
B. the adament sniping against the IS - a car that has not even been driven or
reviewed
It would seem the Bimmer/Infinity fans (or possibly salemen chiming in the forum) indeed seem worried about the competition - especially when a manufacturer with Lexus's engineering abilities, deep pockets, etc. takes on the segment.
Of course, I am most suprised the BMW folks are not off doing the "ultimate driving" thing versus sitting at a computer sniping at the coming IS...maybe it's in the shop.
Cheers
Rotaryfan,
Since you are by your computer--- I presume your Rotary engine is being repaired in some shop?
Figures ! Since Lexus will probably never sell an IS diesel here when they have the hybrid in the bag, and the market has fully accepted hybrids, unlike diesels...you ain't buying an IS anytime soon.... So why hang out here ???
Oh, about the crow, getting me to eat one is about as possible as you buying a gas-powered IS. Now if that were possible would I not have to actually eat crow for real ?
if my car (rotory RX-8 for weekends) were in the shop, I would own up to any reliability issue - not be bragging about "reliability" is for "worried nellies" - (ref. 2798 post). Or looking down my nose at people who are concerned about reliability, or don't have a roundel on the hood, etc. Guess the BMW stereotype has some validity.
To each their own - be that an old Impala or an Aston Martin. Actually, I have lived in Bavaria and admire German engineering - but BMW seems to have a "we design them the way WE want them" attitude vs. the Japanese habit of striving to discern and meet customer desires. And, of course, the reliability and value issues.
Lexusguy,
"Oh the poor wankel, if it was any good, somebody important would use it": so you are judging my importance as a person based on a comment on a car forum? ...very strange.
New info about the IS? - since there are photos of Lexus dealerships in Japan with IS350's lined up, and Japan sales start by July, hopefully reviews will be coming in shortly...or at least more data or photos.
Cheers
and....
Were tryting too hard to be different because we can't look as good and original as the g35 and we know that new IS is going to outperform and look better so we'll keep Mr. Bungle on the payroll and hope for the best. The BMW salesman walks into the Infiniti store and scopes the just released M models. Walks out gloomy "Were screwed again" Love that found it on Freshalloy. Dewey your trying too hard there, your making my laugh with this Lexus has no clout. Guess that's why their developing AMG type cars for the next IS and GS. The New Bmw's are a text book of what NOT to do. Or in laymans terms if it aint broke leave it alone. Guess what the IS leaves out the Playstation joystick for home use only.
Actually I intended that as a cheap shot against Mazda, for their strange obsession with wierd engines nobody else in the automotive world uses like the Miller Cycle and Wankel rotory. I didnt mean you personally.
The debut can't come soon enough to end all of this sniping. :P
Not even remotely close on the comparo to the 3-series, not even close. The swooping back headlights can be found on dozens of cars.
Pardon while I go wash my eyes out with soap after seeing that...
If it disappoints? I'm heading to the Bimmer store, without even slowing down as I drive past the G35, no thanks. :P
I love these corporate dudes who like to say that they don't bring diesels over because there is no demand, when, in fact, you couldn't get a diesel in previous years if you tried. So, how do they know? VW, MB and now Jeep have all done exceptionally well by their diesel sales in North America, so why won't the rest of them give us choice also??? Turbo diesels rock.
This has to be in Lexiland only because that is not even close to being true in the real world. The IS300 may match the E46 325i in handling and acceleration, but not much else and forget about comparing it to the 330i. The BMW folk won't care how much "spec" and power the IS350 has with its automatic only tranny and some of the car mags won't either.
M
I suspect this will change when low sulfur diesel arrives and the German luxury brands haven't really pushed diesels yet, the E320CDI is just a placeholder/market test.
M
M
If I were Mitsu, and on the brink of death, the only way to escape is to differentiate yourself from everyone else. That would mean novel designs (Galant is a nice car but clearly run of the Mill) and turbo diesels and 6-speed manuals. Lexus and Acura can do the same thing with their little sedan, as can BMW. I just wish that they would give us the choice. If it failed to sell, then conclude we don't like diesels, but don't say it when you've never given people the option.
Why?
Hybrids reduce the handling dynamics of a car. The IS supposedly is a sport sedan that emphasizes handling. Put the extra weight of an electrical motor, a humungous battery and hybrid components on an IS and you end up with a overweight turkey.
Oh yes, hybrids do tend to be torquey and that will help acceleration, BUT a comparable torquey turbo diesel will outhandle a hybrid anyday!
Therefore a diesel IS makes much more sense than a hybrid IS. Having said that the success of an IS diesel will also be dependent upon the following four conditions:
1)Low sulphur diesel in 06/07
2)Ability to pass the upcoming new emission standards of 07
3)Educating North American about the virtues of diesel(they have little in common with the Chrysler diesels of the 80s)
4)Diesel prices do not exceed premium gas prices
Unfortunately the fourth condition is beyond any automakers' control.
Yikes! Did I do a Rip Van Winkle for ten years? The only diesel that I've been aware of in recent history that could be bought in a Chrysler product (the Liberty not withstanding) was the Cummins Turbo I6 Diesel available in the Dodge Ram truck. While that diesel may not be as clean as the unit in the E320 CDI, or as spirited for that matter, that sucker has TORQUE!!!.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
Proof:
If you are among the select few diesel Omni owners you can still order its fuel injection parts and cigar hose:
Enjoy the riveting details of these two sites
http://www.dodgepartstore.com/Dodge_Omni_08.html
http://www.dodgepartstore.com/Dodge_Omni_08001.html
Back on topic, I too would be very interested in a new IS with a turbo diesel, hmmm, something like an IS300 CDI, you know, an I6 or a V6 turbocharged (single or dual turbochargers) direct injection diesel with a slick shifting 6-Speed manual. Oh yeah, I'd definitely take that one out for a spin. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
To me an ideal test drive comparsion would be between a IS300CDI and a BMW330d!
What is the likelihood of such North American comparison? Very unlikely
DrFill
Went to an unfamiliar station, and filled his Sprinter with gasoline.. Didn't realize it until about a half hour later, when the vehicle started smoking.
He went back by the station later (in another truck).. The station had both gas and diesel hoses coming out of the same unit.. He grabbed the wrong one..
20 years experience... It can happen to anyone..
No word on the damage, yet..
regards,
kyfdx
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I saw the car in person at the NY Auto Show in April - - in silver. They gave me a mini-brochure with pictures of the car - - in silver. Also, I have seen this car pictured in car magazines (Motor Trend, Automobile, etc) - - in silver every time.
DrFill
And does anyone else think that that 2nd generation IS suffers from a design (an exterior nearly indistinguishable from a GS) that make it seem like the target consumer is now a 50 year old?
If LEXUS would put the new dash/interior in a slightly modified version of the old body -- THAT would be a kick-[non-permissible content removed] combination.
Its not a fluke. Its heavy tax incentives for diesel fuel. The European nations with the most tax incentives have the highest ratio of diesel to gasoline. We have no incentives. Diesel in the US costs as much as premium gas or more in some areas of the country. Unless we get those kinds of incentives, you'll never see even 25% diesel here.
jrynn, yes I think the design of the first IS was a bit young for its price tag. No, I dont think the 2nd generation is either "indistinguishable from a GS" or targeted to 50+ customers, though at least this time 50+ customers wouldnt be embarrased to be seen in one. Are you trying to tell me that you think the IS and GS are any closer in styling than say A4 and A6, or even 3 and 5?
They are as original and distinctive as cars get these days, without being ugly.
The IS is a particularly bold design. And it sits very low on it's wheels, which almost-young punks like me like. The interior is easy on the eyes. I think young and old will find it agreeable.
It ain't perfect, but I think they prove that Lexus is starting to get this style thing down. These guys are running out of problems to fix! :shades:
DrFill
Don't forget every 1% of market share in the US equates to 170,000 vehicles. Even a modest 10% of sales and we're talking about 1.7 million vehicles. Like the Prius, the problem would be production - not acceptance.
There are not many diesel fans in this forum as you have probably noticed by now!
Reason? I guess fuel economy becomes a distant priority sport sedan buyers ! A majority of N. Amercan sport sedan buyers will make frugal gas consumption a priority only when they are faced with Swiss or European fuel prices.
Anyway, I am among a minority here who will seek a fuel efficient sport sedan---most likely a diesel!
A hybrid? Only if I was buying a car that is not a sport sedan. And only if it is a plug in version that can reach 100mpg!
The E class is not exactly a mass market car here, which leaves basically VW alone to try and convince the US public that its diesels are better. I dont see that happening.
let us discuss how BIG diesels can be in N. America. VW will soon not be the only volume seller of diesels. Honda is joining the diesel party during 2007. Honda the very same company that sells tens of thousands of hybrids. Why is Honda selling diesels simultaneously with its hybrids? Have you checked the insane price premiums for hybrid versions of Civic/Accord! If you did you will realize that Honda will have no choice but to introduce reasonably priced diesels that will sell at high voulmes in the USA. And yes, they will sell at high voulumes if Honda marketing does a good job is showing the the virtue of diesels.
Dont be surprised that in two years Honda will sell both a Hybrid and diesel version of an Accord. And dont be surprised when the diesel Accord outsells the hyrbid Accord.
And when Toyota sees the success of diesels in America, dont be surprised when the IS diesel version will sell in USA during 2008. A bloated and heavy "Hybrid Sport Sedan" is a oxymoron! A oxymoron just like "Sport Hearse Wagon" or a "Ambulance Boulevard Cruiser".
Hybrid versions of most Toyotas and Lexus models make sense! But a hybrid version of every single model will soon be considered senseless by Toyota, especially in the case of a IS. Is it a coincidence that the hybrid IS rumors are currently non-existent? All we hear now are rumors of a gas guzzling IS V8.