If you guys havent given an '05 S60R a try, you definitely should. Its sticker is high, but Volvo is discounting them because the S60 is starting to get on in years. The seats are magic, the interior is higher quality than the G, maybe not Audi class but up there with the rest of the competition. Its got AWD, and the turbo 5 delivers a whopping 300hp. With the stick, it can easily compete with the new 330i, and G35 6MT. Unfortunately the auto that Volvo currently has is a poor mate for the big turbo. If you want an automatic, the 2.5T AWD is pretty much as quick as the R with the auto, at least below 70mph. Oh, and Volvo's Dolby PL-II stereo trounces everything else, except maybe the inevitable IS ML system.
Thanks for your suggestion lexusguy, but I'm only looking for something new and fresh, not something that is "starting to get on in years." The pic sure looks nice though.
It is unseemly for someone who goes by the screen name "lexusguy" to be praising the virtues of a Volvo.
Well, the Volvo is "fresh" for 2005, it got some very subtle exterior tweaks, and a major interior upgrade. It was all new for 2001, same as the C-class. If I actually owned one my name might be Volvoguy. I drive an LS430. I'm just suggesting it because if I were going to buy an entry lux car right this second, the S60 and G would be my top two choices.
Even over the new IS? I have until mid-Sep or mid-Oct to get my next car. The new IS will be available by then.
In my case, since I have been driving a G for 3 years, I would be inclined to switch to the new IS for a change, even if it turns out to be the case that the now 3-year old G would be regarded as being better than even the new IS. I can't wait until the car mags round up these sports sedans for another comparison, this time throwing the new IS and the new 3-Series into the mix. And I hope that they test both models of the IS and the 3. It's rare to find the 325i used in a comparison test. They're almost always using the more powerful and prohibitvely more expensive 330i. I am afraid that they may take a similar approach with the IS, using mostly the IS350 and hardly ever using the IS250.
Wow! Can you believe the price of gas?! It's over a buck/litre here now and they are saying for the Civic long weekend it might hit 1.10/litre! The IS250 is starting to look like they way to go for me here in Canada. Better on gas (will have to wait and see by how much but I guessing at least a few more mpg over a 350), lower monthly payment, and the icing on the cake, I can get my manual with it. My fingers are crossed that a IS250 RWD, 6 speed manual will feel as fast as my current IS300 5-speed manual. Besides if what Lexus says is true, high 20's for mpg, that's like 23 city/31 highway with all the driving I do that's a real savings (for me and the planet). Anyone else thinking with gas prices the way they are, adjusting the next car they purchase to one with higher MPG? (I know, within reason were talking sport sedans here not hybrids or Echo's)
Anyone else thinking with gas prices the way they are, adjusting the next car they purchase to one with higher MPG? (I know, within reason were talking sport sedans here not hybrids or Echo's)
Yes and no. as long as I can get over 30 mpg on freeway drives (which my 330i gets and the new one does too), I'm happy. the GTI/A3 also get 30 mpg. The Scoobie GT unfortunately seems geared the way Audi/VW used too...too much power for around town driving. 5th/6th needs to be a real cruising gear so you can motor at 80-90 all day and get decent 30+ mileage.
That is why my next car will be a turbodiesel! BMW will be introducing diesels in about two years. Audi is serious about diesels. And MB is expanding their diesel offerings. Shame that there will be no Lexus IS diesels.
My 2003 G35 only gets 22mpg overall, and that's with mostly highway driving.
My next car will have to get much better gas mileage. This is a fairly strong consideration for me, since I put on close to 20k miles per year. I am afraid that high gas prices are here to stay. Yesterday I paid $2.72 for self-serve Super (93 octane). I had a little less than a quarter of a tank, yet it still cost more than $40 to fil er up. And I am doing this roughly twice per week!
The IS 350 features the next step in control, with its Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system.[5] Imagine VDIM as a computerized brain, coordinating the numerous vital systems of the IS 350, including the braking system, Vehicle Stability Control, the Electronic Throttle Control and Electric Power Steering (EPS). Using integrated control software, the VDIM sensors calculate vehicle conditions to help maintain control. The VDIM system in the new IS will be tuned for driving fun, allowing drivers to explore the outer limits of the car's handling.
If it's like the GS300's system, the car's gonna get dogged by its own computer.
Yeah, they said it pretty much the same system, but this is more performance geared. It's supposed to allow you to push the car much further to the limit, unlike the GS. Basically, it'll be less restrictive. At least that's what they say.
When I said "right this second", I meant if I literally had to buy one or the other tomorrow. Obviously I havent tested the new IS yet, so I dont know wether it would be on there or not. If there's no off switch for the VDIM system in the 350, that would certainly give me a lot of pause. The S60R lacks advanced features like a keyless ignition and bluetooth connectivity, but does have an adjustable active suspension, and more importantly, Volvo's DTSC stability system can be shut off.
BG, actually its the GS430 that has VDIM, Lexus' active steering system, and E-brakes. The GS300 has traditional (and better) mechanical systems and just a basic VSC stability system that is on previous Lexus cars.
Not to get off subject but I keep hearing the S60R mentioned, and I too looked at that car and after browsing several other forums it seems to be plagued with electronic gremlins.
Given lexus/toyota's penchant for nannying, it seems unlikely the vdim will be switchable from within the cockpit. Lexus, MB, BMW are all headed down a path I do not favor - too many electrical gizmos interfering with driving. I read a review of the new M v. the GS and 5 series and it seems only Infiniti is still leaning toward the old school way of tuning a chassis and engine to work together symbiotically v. shoving in technology to overcome chassis faults.
Active steering on bimmers...blech. Water-cleaning brakes? Oh man. Radar-based safety systems that make brakes apply faster based on objects directly ahead? no thanks.
At least active steering is optional on the 5. Whats kind of funny is that AS is a "sport package" item, but then the M division guys take it off. At least they still have the right idea.
One thing radar collision systems cant do is go through a driving course. I dont remember which review of the GS430 it was, but it had the PCS system, and the computer thought every cone was a brick wall about to slam into the car.
"You might find on a lease that you can get something much more expensive (M35, a bimmer, etc.) for the same lease price!"
You made an excellent point that I want to return to. Logically uninformed people may assume that it should cost about the same to lease whatever car they like with a MSRP of about 35k. But such is not the case at all. Indeed the differences can be huge - more than $100 per month. This is attributable to manufacturer incentives, dealer discounts, and lease support (lower interest rates and/or higher residuals) from the manufacturer's leasing arm, some or all of which are available on certain makes/models but not on other makes/models. The new Lexus IS figures to be the worst case scenario for the first takers - a totally unsupported lease based on full MSRP or thereabouts. There is no doubt in my mind that I could lease, for example, a G35 with a similar MSRP for a substantially lower monthly lease payment. Or, as you pointed out, I could set my sights higher and lease a more expensive car for the same monthly payment. So if the tariff is too high for being first in line for the IS250, . . . . . .
Is VDIM standard on all IS? that would be impressive. Insurance for the IS should be lower than the 3 with that kind of safty feature. And how many airbags?
I read the VDIM will be standard on only the IS350. All of the models should have 10 standard airbags. The air bags, I think, are a new design, called a Twin Chamber Airbag. Link
cheaper insurance? what? because the car makes your brakes more grabby than you intended them to be? i've not heard of anyone getting an insurance break over MB's silly pre-collision junkware, so why would lexus cars get such a break?
when statistically it shows the death, injury rate of a IS, cost of repair, and other related coverage is lower than those of BMW, then the insurance will be lower.
1. The safty features designed into this new IS gives me confident that it will be a safer car than the 3. 2. reliability is the key too safty. Any auto parts and that includes the airbags will be more reliable on a Toyota vehicle than a BMW vehicle - says JD Power and Consumer Report and any benchmark data. 3. In terms of repair cost, it is probably hard to say. But given BMW cost more to buy, its auto part might cost more in the dealership.
1. The safty features designed into this new IS gives me confident that it will be a safer car than the 3.
It is a shame your statements are based on feelings and not facts!
reliability is the key too safty. Any auto parts and that includes the airbags will be more reliable on a Toyota vehicle than a BMW vehicle - says JD Power and Consumer Report and any benchmark data.
Does Consumer Report/JD Power say air bags are more reliable in Toyota than BMW? Or is this based again on your feelings! Do these two publications state that all auto parts are more reliable on a Toyota than a BMW? Why dont you re-read your facts.
. In terms of repair cost, it is probably hard to say. But given BMW cost more to buy, its auto part might cost more in the dealership.
While I can't speak for the safety aspect.... Lexus/Toyota long term reliability and cost of ownership is the stuff of legends. Going by historic performance I'm sure there are very few people that would dispute the "Lexus will cost more to run than the Bimmer" statement. And even if they did dispute it, they will have a very hard time finding information supporting that claim.
As far as the pricing...Since a base 3 series starts at $30k WITHOUT LEATHER!!!??? and Zenons are another $800. I think it'll be pretty safe that a comparably equipped IS will be cheaper. Not 50% cheaper but I bet around 3 to $4K.
Most importantly though....Maybe we just don't care about the comparison. This is the IS room. Maybe we simply don't want a 3 series. For whatever reason. That's why there are so many cars in this price range.
As far as the pricing...Since a base 3 series starts at $30k WITHOUT LEATHER!!!??? and Zenons are another $800. I think it'll be pretty safe that a comparably equipped IS will be cheaper. Not 50% cheaper but I bet around 3 to $4K.
That's not true if you look at the standard equipment list. An IS250 will not have a standard moonroof or xenons. It'll start at 30k (as Lexus executives have clearly said pricing will be the same as the old car)...so add $2k to get standard luxury fearures like decent lights and a moonroof. Add xenons and leather to a 325i and you're at 32k also. Shrug...but you also get an engine with almost 30 more hp.
Given lexus' continued push upward in price, it seems highly likely the IS250 will ring in at about the same level as a bimmer. The Is350 will probably have pricing in line with a 330i too - guess a starting price of 35k for it (again hid and moon are extras - so 37k with basic features). There's a 7k+ difference in pricing between the GS300 and 430. A 5k jump from IS250 to 350 seems likely.
All that is speculation. IF and I do mean IF they do hold the line on the pricing without much more content I think they will be making a b ig mistake. I have no problem with the power of the car though since I can think beyond the ONE aspect. If HP numbers were that important they wouldn't have sold any Bimmers at all in the past since they have never been tops in the hp war before in any model below the M3.
I still say the IS will be priced below the comparable Bimmer. But hey I may be wrong. But who cares? It's only a car.
Cars are status symbols. Cars are great sources of entertainment. Cars are also great for picking up beautiful women. LF-A, here I come, see you in 3 years
Lexus has upped their prices in recent years following their increase in prestige and recognition, but there's no way that they are going to price a similarly equipped IS the same as a similarly equipped 3.
Hasn't happened with the GS vs. the 5, and hasn't happened with the LS vs. the 7.
Well, Lexus execs said an is250 would start at the same price as the IS300. That's 30k. A 325i is 30k without leather but it has a moonroof. Add $1400 to the bimmer's price for leather. Add $1200 to the IS250 for a moonroof and the prices are still just about the same. Shrug.
...YES. I'm glad that you find my opinion very amusing... Do I entertain you?
It's mostly in the psychology, the whole "catch up with the Jones'" deal...
Do you not think that a person driving an old beat up VW Rabbit thinks that someone driving a brand new BMW may have a "higher status" than them? I'm not saying that this is right, but it's the truth for many.
Many people buy cars for different reasons; some for enjoyment, others just because of the prestige/status attached with having a luxury car, plus the attention they may get along with it. I for one am going to buy myself a Lexus because I simply love cars and they (cars) are one of my passions. You also want to buy a sports sedan because of the practicality of a sedan, I presume, and the speed and handling of a sports car; that's you, and others are different!
Most of the Lexus', BMW's, Benz's, RR, Bentleys of the world are status symbols. Ever heard of something called a trophy wife? ROFL HA HA HA ... just like how people have girlfriends/wives for different reasons, whatever that may be.
You may be right...I'm just talking base to base - same general options. Once you say 325i auto you lose me, add in premium and heated seats and it's a big question mark as to why even bother buying a sport sedan...just get an ES330.
"You may be right...I'm just talking base to base - same general options. Once you say 325i auto you lose me, add in premium and heated seats and it's a big question mark as to why even bother buying a sport sedan...just get an ES330."
Well, a lot of people don't see it as black and white as you would. Some people want a sedan that handles well but don't necessarily want to row the gears. And a lot of people don't want their [non-permissible content removed] to get cold, whether they're shifting or not.
How personally people take comments about certain vehicles/brands... I wonder if any of those who get up in arms actually work (or own stock in) the car company they are willing to trash a total stranger to defend... :P
All accounts I've heard (both at the NYIAS and a local dealership) are that the IS250 will be slightly higher (1-2k) than the current IS300, and the the IS350 will be a few grand higher than that. Still, I'd expect that if Lexus is really attempting to compete with the BMW 3-series pricing will be slightly less for a comparable model. At least until the new vehicle proves its worth.
A car is absolutely a status symbol... that's why luxury brands exist. Else everyone would drive functional cars like a Ford Taurus, which gets you from A-B. Why else would anyone compare the merits of 200+ to 300+hp and whatever lb feet of torque? Unless people are in training for the Indy-500, I'm willing to suggest that most people are not traveling consistently at very high speeds.
This is what happens when there's a lack of real news to talk about.
But at least it keeps the thread going.......
Like it was shown on the GS, base pricing is meaningless - unless one wants to wait 3 months for a special order. One will have a very hard time finding a base car on any lot. And that business of moonroof not being standard.... as BMW has done it probably will be soon.
My prediction - the IS250 will be the least expensive RWD MT equiped sedan in the US - the reason I might buy it.
But these days there's not much "status" in a $30K car. Heck I saw a loaded Jetta for $31K the other day. If you want to impress by owning a Lexus, just buy a used one. It's much cheaper. Once the tag in on the car, no one knows how new it is anymore.
I haven't seen any real pricing on the IS yet. But if they think they are gonna be able to lower the power and keep the same content but yet raise prices, Lexus is loco.
"A car is absolutely a status symbol... that's why luxury brands exist. "
You may speak for the majority but not the select few who pick a car based on performance/handling considerations!
I really do pity the person who buys a car solely as a status symbol. Such people with injured egos should visit a therapist or a guru before purchasing a car!
Cars have been status symbols for quite a while. I, personally, look at absolutely every car I can before I buy, but I know people who need their three point stars and silver Ls. With a lot of people status is a big thing. How do you think Cadillac sells Escalades?
Comments
It is unseemly for someone who goes by the screen name "lexusguy" to be praising the virtues of a Volvo.
In my case, since I have been driving a G for 3 years, I would be inclined to switch to the new IS for a change, even if it turns out to be the case that the now 3-year old G would be regarded as being better than even the new IS. I can't wait until the car mags round up these sports sedans for another comparison, this time throwing the new IS and the new 3-Series into the mix. And I hope that they test both models of the IS and the 3. It's rare to find the 325i used in a comparison test. They're almost always using the more powerful and prohibitvely more expensive 330i. I am afraid that they may take a similar approach with the IS, using mostly the IS350 and hardly ever using the IS250.
The IS250 is starting to look like they way to go for me here in Canada. Better on gas (will have to wait and see by how much but I guessing at least a few more mpg over a 350), lower monthly payment, and the icing on the cake, I can get my manual with it.
My fingers are crossed that a IS250 RWD, 6 speed manual will feel as fast as my current IS300 5-speed manual. Besides if what Lexus says is true, high 20's for mpg, that's like 23 city/31 highway with all the driving I do that's a real savings (for me and the planet).
Anyone else thinking with gas prices the way they are, adjusting the next car they purchase to one with higher MPG? (I know, within reason were talking sport sedans here not hybrids or Echo's)
Yes and no. as long as I can get over 30 mpg on freeway drives (which my 330i gets and the new one does too), I'm happy. the GTI/A3 also get 30 mpg. The Scoobie GT unfortunately seems geared the way Audi/VW used too...too much power for around town driving. 5th/6th needs to be a real cruising gear so you can motor at 80-90 all day and get decent 30+ mileage.
That is why my next car will be a turbodiesel! BMW will be introducing diesels in about two years. Audi is serious about diesels. And MB is expanding their diesel offerings. Shame that there will be no Lexus IS diesels.
Burns gas like a SUV!
No 6 speed manual tranny!
Handling is not up to BMW/Audi standards!
It is cheaper than competing modesl---but it is cheaper for a reason!
No 6 cylinder inline engine
No LSD
Low hp for the IS250
No manual tranny on the IS350
Bigger size
Heavier
Because only 30% really give a damned based on the article linked below. 30% of buyers can be categorized as alpha buyers!
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Industry/Industry_News/Alpha_Buyers_Driving_the_Car_Market- - - - .S175.A8783.html
My next car will have to get much better gas mileage. This is a fairly strong consideration for me, since I put on close to 20k miles per year. I am afraid that high gas prices are here to stay. Yesterday I paid $2.72 for self-serve Super (93 octane). I had a little less than a quarter of a tank, yet it still cost more than $40 to fil er up. And I am doing this roughly twice per week!
http://www.lexus.com/2006is_preview/index.html
Tim
The IS 350 features the next step in control, with its Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system.[5] Imagine VDIM as a computerized brain, coordinating the numerous vital systems of the IS 350, including the braking system, Vehicle Stability Control, the Electronic Throttle Control and Electric Power Steering (EPS). Using integrated control software, the VDIM sensors calculate vehicle conditions to help maintain control. The VDIM system in the new IS will be tuned for driving fun, allowing drivers to explore the outer limits of the car's handling.
If it's like the GS300's system, the car's gonna get dogged by its own computer.
BG, actually its the GS430 that has VDIM, Lexus' active steering system, and E-brakes. The GS300 has traditional (and better) mechanical systems and just a basic VSC stability system that is on previous Lexus cars.
Active steering on bimmers...blech. Water-cleaning brakes? Oh man. Radar-based safety systems that make brakes apply faster based on objects directly ahead? no thanks.
I agree about active steering. But what do you have against water-cleaning brakes?
One thing radar collision systems cant do is go through a driving course. I dont remember which review of the GS430 it was, but it had the PCS system, and the computer thought every cone was a brick wall about to slam into the car.
Of course, if I have to pay for that repair out of warranty, I'm likely to change my mind...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
You made an excellent point that I want to return to. Logically uninformed people may assume that it should cost about the same to lease whatever car they like with a MSRP of about 35k. But such is not the case at all. Indeed the differences can be huge - more than $100 per month. This is attributable to manufacturer incentives, dealer discounts, and lease support (lower interest rates and/or higher residuals) from the manufacturer's leasing arm, some or all of which are available on certain makes/models but not on other makes/models. The new Lexus IS figures to be the worst case scenario for the first takers - a totally unsupported lease based on full MSRP or thereabouts. There is no doubt in my mind that I could lease, for example, a G35 with a similar MSRP for a substantially lower monthly lease payment. Or, as you pointed out, I could set my sights higher and lease a more expensive car for the same monthly payment. So if the tariff is too high for being first in line for the IS250, . . . . . .
I doubt I'd ever push my car hard enough for the VDIM to matter. I'm not THAT aggressive a driver.
The lease discussion is why I'm glad I have 4 cars. I'm waiting til the time is right. My IS is a want. I'm in no hurry.
Check out this very favorable review.
Cheers
Link
1. The safty features designed into this new IS gives me confident that it will be a safer car than the 3.
2. reliability is the key too safty. Any auto parts and that includes the airbags will be more reliable on a Toyota vehicle than a BMW vehicle - says JD Power and Consumer Report and any benchmark data.
3. In terms of repair cost, it is probably hard to say. But given BMW cost more to buy, its auto part might cost more in the dealership.
i'm not ordering until january (assuming i still want one after the is350 comes out) and nopt picking up until end of march. :confuse:
It is a shame your statements are based on feelings and not facts!
reliability is the key too safty. Any auto parts and that includes the airbags will be more reliable on a Toyota vehicle than a BMW vehicle - says JD Power and Consumer Report and any benchmark data.
Does Consumer Report/JD Power say air bags are more reliable in Toyota than BMW? Or is this based again on your feelings! Do these two publications state that all auto parts are more reliable on a Toyota than a BMW? Why dont you re-read your facts.
. In terms of repair cost, it is probably hard to say. But given BMW cost more to buy, its auto part might cost more in the dealership.
Do you know the pricing of the new IS?
Lexus/Toyota long term reliability and cost of ownership is the stuff of legends. Going by historic performance I'm sure there are very few people that would dispute the "Lexus will cost more to run than the Bimmer" statement. And even if they did dispute it, they will have a very hard time finding information supporting that claim.
As far as the pricing...Since a base 3 series starts at $30k WITHOUT LEATHER!!!??? and Zenons are another $800. I think it'll be pretty safe that a comparably equipped IS will be cheaper. Not 50% cheaper but I bet around 3 to $4K.
Most importantly though....Maybe we just don't care about the comparison. This is the IS room. Maybe we simply don't want a 3 series. For whatever reason. That's why there are so many cars in this price range.
That's not true if you look at the standard equipment list. An IS250 will not have a standard moonroof or xenons. It'll start at 30k (as Lexus executives have clearly said pricing will be the same as the old car)...so add $2k to get standard luxury fearures like decent lights and a moonroof. Add xenons and leather to a 325i and you're at 32k also. Shrug...but you also get an engine with almost 30 more hp.
Given lexus' continued push upward in price, it seems highly likely the IS250 will ring in at about the same level as a bimmer. The Is350 will probably have pricing in line with a 330i too - guess a starting price of 35k for it (again hid and moon are extras - so 37k with basic features). There's a 7k+ difference in pricing between the GS300 and 430. A 5k jump from IS250 to 350 seems likely.
I still say the IS will be priced below the comparable Bimmer. But hey I may be wrong. But who cares? It's only a car.
A car is a bit more than just a car!
Otherwise there would not be 2,942 posts in this forum for a car that does not yet exist, dont you think?
Hasn't happened with the GS vs. the 5, and hasn't happened with the LS vs. the 7.
mike...cars are status symbols? rofl
It's mostly in the psychology, the whole "catch up with the Jones'" deal...
Do you not think that a person driving an old beat up VW Rabbit thinks that someone driving a brand new BMW may have a "higher status" than them? I'm not saying that this is right, but it's the truth for many.
Many people buy cars for different reasons; some for enjoyment, others just because of the prestige/status attached with having a luxury car, plus the attention they may get along with it. I for one am going to buy myself a Lexus because I simply love cars and they (cars) are one of my passions. You also want to buy a sports sedan because of the practicality of a sedan, I presume, and the speed and handling of a sports car; that's you, and others are different!
Most of the Lexus', BMW's, Benz's, RR, Bentleys of the world are status symbols. Ever heard of something called a trophy wife? ROFL HA HA HA
But there probably will be price divergence when you start loading 'em up.
A 325i auto with Premium Package, heated seats, and xenons is $37,000. I think an IS250 with similar equipment will be more like $34,000.
I might be wrong. We'll see.
I might be wrong. We'll see.
You may be right...I'm just talking base to base - same general options. Once you say 325i auto you lose me, add in premium and heated seats and it's a big question mark as to why even bother buying a sport sedan...just get an ES330.
Well, a lot of people don't see it as black and white as you would. Some people want a sedan that handles well but don't necessarily want to row the gears. And a lot of people don't want their [non-permissible content removed] to get cold, whether they're shifting or not.
All accounts I've heard (both at the NYIAS and a local dealership) are that the IS250 will be slightly higher (1-2k) than the current IS300, and the the IS350 will be a few grand higher than that. Still, I'd expect that if Lexus is really attempting to compete with the BMW 3-series pricing will be slightly less for a comparable model. At least until the new vehicle proves its worth.
A car is absolutely a status symbol... that's why luxury brands exist. Else everyone would drive functional cars like a Ford Taurus, which gets you from A-B. Why else would anyone compare the merits of 200+ to 300+hp and whatever lb feet of torque? Unless people are in training for the Indy-500, I'm willing to suggest that most people are not traveling consistently at very high speeds.
But at least it keeps the thread going.......
Like it was shown on the GS, base pricing is meaningless - unless one wants to wait 3 months for a special order. One will have a very hard time finding a base car on any lot. And that business of moonroof not being standard.... as BMW has done it probably will be soon.
My prediction - the IS250 will be the least expensive RWD MT equiped sedan in the US - the reason I might buy it.
I haven't seen any real pricing on the IS yet. But if they think they are gonna be able to lower the power and keep the same content but yet raise prices, Lexus is loco.
You may speak for the majority but not the select few who pick a car based on performance/handling considerations!
I really do pity the person who buys a car solely as a status symbol. Such people with injured egos should visit a therapist or a guru before purchasing a car!