Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

gee35coupe

Lexus has said openly that they are trying to oversome the staid boring reputation that they have. The New GS may be hampered if you want to go sideways around a corner but it's still plenty of car. The new IS also looks to be quite a ride. Not all of us are trying to drive like we are in on a tarmac section of the WRC. I mean AMG equipped cars have automatics and stability aids too but they still get respect.

From what I've seen in the showroom with the GS, upcoming models like the IS and drawings of the next LS, Lexus seems to be trying to make a chnage. It just takes time. I just hope gas isn't $4 a gallon by the time they finish.

lexusguy

"I just hope gas isn't $4 a gallon by the time they finish."

Well, thats part of the reason Lexus is doing the RX400h, GS450h, and LS600h. If the Tundra eventually gets its hybrid motor, the GX.. and JX.. I think? most likely will too. I dont think the LX will be around long enough for the upgrade.

sorter

I have heard Summer to fall of 07. That will mean slightly after LS and before LS hybrid.

carlisimo

To those of you who don't believe in the IS500 (not that I'm fully convinced yet, myself), what do you make of the picture in post 2514? It's clearly got hood vents... something's going on under there.

blueguydotcom

concept cars and tests mules aren't production cars. as i stated already, toyota's been seen testing aupposed supra replacement for over 5 years. still no new supra. i'll believe it when there's a press release from toyota...

maxhonda99

You know, I haven't seen any real pics of a Supra undergoing testing in the last 5 years. All I have seen is artist drawings of what a future Supra would look like. I say sites like autospies just make up these drawings to get people to view their publications/websites.

motownusa

The new Supra is supposedly coming in MY 2007 ( I am keeping my fingers crossed). Regarding the IS500, I strongly believe although I certainly cannot prove it that either the IS500 or something very similar with horspower in the neighborhood of 400 will be making its debut as the ultimate IS pretty soon. I think Lexus is finally serious about competing in the high performance sedan market. 300 Hp nowadays is pretty low for a high performance sedan.

davidd3

I am now considering what will be my next car when my lease expires in mid-September. I am now enjoying an Infiniti G35. I got it shortly after it came out. This time around I am strongly considering the redesigned 2006 BMW 325i, which just hit showrooms this month. But recently I became aware that Lexus will introduce a new IS this year, which is supposed to be a more serious sports sedan effort on the part of Lexus. I saw it at the NY Auto Show last month. Looks great, though it was roped off and inaccessible. At that time, I was told that it won't hit the market until November. Does anyone have an update on the timing? If the timing would be close to mid-September, perhaps I could extend my lease a bit in order to consider the new IS. The leasing company said that they'll give me an extra month, but no longer.

blueguydotcom

How was your G35?

And yeah, the Is250/250 is supposed to hit october/november.

rotoryfan

"saw the new IS at the auto show" and it "looks great" -

could you amplify why you think it looks great? from the front, back, all angles? I know it is a subjective question, just wondering what grabbed your attention about the design...

Thanks in advance!

sorter

My view-
Side view : Lexus GS
Rear view: Cadilac CTS
Front view: Honda Accord
Interior: Best in class, best in world.

lexusguy

I'm assuming you dont want another G? Have you tried the '05s? They are a great improvement over the original (especially interior wise), horsepower is up to either 280\270 or 298\260 depending on transmission, and a new one would cost quite a bit less than either a 330i or IS350. The 325\IS250 obviously cant compete with the G in terms of power.

drfill

I didn't no you were an Infiniti salesman?

The IS rear looks like CTS? I need new trifocals!!

DrFill

rotoryfan

Did you see it at the NY auto show?

Front end looks like an accord? I don't know how you see that.

Actually, I was asking David3 since he has seen the car in person...one of the few.

davidd3

My G35 was (still is, actually) great. I love the looks of the car. Awesome power. Good handling. Interior is sporty, but is obviously the place where they did some cost cutting.

The IS is probably coming out a bit too late for me in view of the timing of my lease end. I'll probably end up with the new Bimmer this time around.

davidd3

The show car was bright silver. I thought it looked great from all angles. I returned several times to look at it again and again. The front is especially striking. The interior looked absolutely fabulous. All doors were open, but it was roped off and spinning around. Wish I could have had a closer look. I would probably end up with this car if only the timing was right for me.

davidd3

I don't want another G only because I had it for 3 years and the car still looks the same. Changing cars every 3 years is what I like best about leasing, second only to lower monthly payments. Actually I'm thinking about the 325i, not the 330i. The 330i is too pricey (unless you take a leftover 2005 model, which can now be had for a 7k discount). The G is more powerful than the 325i, but not nearly as much so as before. Now the 325 model name is a misnomer. Whereas it used to have a 2.5 liter engine with less than 200hp, it now has a 3.0 liter engine (same basic engine as the 330) that goes 0 to 60 in a bit more than 7 seconds with an automatic transmission. It also gets nearly 30mpg on the highway, which is where I do most of my driving.

blueguydotcom

Interior is best in class? Have you seen an A4? nobody does interiors like VW/audi.

blueguydotcom

It also gets nearly 30mpg on the highway, which is where I do most of my driving.

The 330i does get over 30 mpg. Even running in the 80-90s you'll get 30 mpg. If i trusted BMWs to run as long as some claim, I'd keep my off-lease car forever.

lexusguy

The nav is still poorly implemented in the A4 though. Its not the joke that it was before, but without a real MMI control system, (just the goofy little knob on the dash) The IS's nav will be MUCH better and MUCH easier to use.

callmedrfill, no, I dont work for Infiniti. However, I think that the '05 G35x is one of the best, if not the single best car in its class, especially when price is considered.

blueguydotcom

I don't care how navi is implemented. if i wanted to have gps track me, I'd get a $100 unit for my pda and get the same functionality for 1/5th the price.

When i mention the A4 interior I'm talking about the driving experince, not the video game bling, bling look-at-me experience. Sitting in an A4 cockpit...well there's nothing else in the segment that comes close. It's just plain yummy.

lexusguy

Interestingly it appears as if the new Passat will actually out-lux the A4 when fully loaded. I've seen pictures, and it looks like a mini-Phaeton.

gee35coupe

with that new snoz. I wouldn't buy one anymore. The 04's were great though.

307web

A portable GPS unit may kill or maim you in an accident.
It will become a flying projectile.

blueguydotcom

I see. You could make the same claim about a Treo 650.

I'd rather save the 2k and run the risk, thanks. :P

biker4

A portable GPS unit may kill or maim you in an accident.
It will become a flying projectile.
Not any different than a can of Coke in the cup holder.
This is starting to sound as silly as the person who said they won't buy a car cause the turn signals are red instead of yellow.

Getting a NAV is a presonal choice based on needs. Don't get it for the "gee-whiz" factor - that will be gone within a week of bringing the car home.
Not only that, but with the new IS having a screen standard, the possibility of adding a NAV at a later date is pretty good - if really needed.

brightness04

> By the above, I think you have my idea of "sport" and "lux" down pretty pat, oac, > because that's the exact impression I'm getting of the car. Wrong priorities for
> this class, IMO, unless we're willing to accept that the class is evolving away
> from itself

IMHO, that's precisely what's happening in the market place. the IS300, despite being a phenomenal sportiness, has been rather disappointing in sales. Since Lexus has opened declared IS's target is the 3 series, lets take a very brief look at what's been happening to that target in the past decade and half: E30 used to be a tight little package, today's E46 and E90 are positively 5-series in disguise. There is a multitude of reasons behind that, besides the obvious economic background of population getting more mature and more wealthy, the increase in size has also been behind BMW's ability to raise price with each generation. That helps resale value: buyer of used cars don't usually think of what per-centage of the old car's MSRP, but erroneously compare in terms of per-percentage of brand new replacement car's true market value. If a manufacturer can continuously grow the size of a model name (like 3/5 and "Accord," all referring to vehicles of very different sizes over the generations despite recycling the name), there is tremendous advantage in resale price retention due to the fact that the average consumers and the retail analysist using different math. Both BMW and Honda have been doing very well resale-wise using that method.

shipo

Ummm, a little 'wheat from the chaff' separation if I may...

"...today's E46 and E90 are positively 5-series in disguise."

In some ways yes or nearly yes, and in other ways, not even close. Case in point, the new, E90 3-Series (which is 2.6" longer than the E46) is still 11" shorter than the E28 5-Series, which was released 23 years ago (and 10" shorter than the E39 which was released 9 years ago).

"...the increase in size has also been behind BMW's ability to raise price with each generation."

Ummm, well if you were to compare to comparably equipped cars, you would find that the E46 may actually have a higher MSRP than does the E90. Consider this:

I just configured two cars with the following options, 330i, 6-Speed Manual, Xenon Headlights, Sport Package, Premium Package, and Metallic Paint. The E46 had an MSRP of $42,420; the E90 had an MSRP of $41,270. And even then they aren’t really comparable, there are features on the E90 that are either not available on the E46, or are "Extra cost dealer install items" such as the Anti-Theft system and the inputs for iPod type devices (not to mention more power and better fuel mileage). Granted, the E46 won't cost anywhere near MSRP right about now given the incentives that BMW is offering on the lame duck car, but what about the folks that bought the E46 six months ago?

From my perspective at least, if Lexus wants to really go toe to toe with the 3-Series (as is their stated intention), then they need to make sure that it is a "Driver's Car" above and beyond all else. That means a suspension that is (or can be made to be) unfettered by electronic nannies and a manual gearbox for all models, including the IS350.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know many folks say, "Wait a year, Lexus will produce a manual." Sorry, not buyin'. If their intention was to produce a manual version, why haven't they already announced that fact (as Infiniti did when the G35 was initially released with only two pedals).

Do I think that the Gen2 IS will be more successful than the quirky and cramped Gen1 model? Certainly. Do I think that it will be the world beater that Lexus is hoping it will be. Nope, not as things currently stand.

Best Regards,
Shipo

drfill

Starting with 204HP is taking things too far.

Why not drop the 350 in the Spring '06, and the MT to go with it in the Fall '06?

Then Hybrid Spring of '07? Coupe/Conv.: Spring '07?

At least Lexus learned SOMETHING, releasing the MT at launch, but AWD on a 200HP motor is still questionable, making a marginal motivator.....more so.

But on the higher side, KUDOS to a Lexus clean-sweep of ALL Luxury car classes in JD Power's 2005 IQS Awards! Becoming quite Ho-hum at this point.

More KUDOS to GM for their 5 awards, even though they are on models that are so old, I could build a bronze medal winner! At least they're doing sumpin'

Where was Honda?? They're on quite a cold streak, with the Accord Hybrid bombing, the Civic facing huge discounts and incentives, and sales of their two stars down noticably. The Ridgeline looks like a comer, though.

People have been harping on the A4 interior as the best. I like it an all, but I'm not a fan of the red guages/illumination of the interior. The IS is definitely in the running for Best In Class! And OBVIOUSLY the improvements on the IS Exterior make the revised A4 look like day-old eggs!

DrFill

307web

No.

A can of soda in a cup holder is quite different. A portable GPS is usually mounted on the dash or stuck on the the windshield with a suction cup or some other method.
In it's higher position nearer to eye level, it is much more likely to come flying towards your face in a crash.
It also weighs more and is much less forgiving than a thin aluminum can or a paper cup. Most people will use totally benign paper cups in a car anyway.
A soda sitting in a console cup holder between the seats is of near zero danger, where a GPS unit flying at your head like a missile can kill or blind you.
If the portable GPS unit happens to get into the path of a deploying airbag, it will be further accelerated and catapulted by that force and will be that much more likely to impale you with a ghoulish injury. It will almost be like it was shot out of a cannon at near point-blank range.

lexusguy

"More KUDOS to GM for their 5 awards, even though they are on models that are so old, I could build a bronze medal winner! At least they're doing sumpin'"

Thats something that is very often missed. The news is generally just about GM. Sure Buicks are reliable, GM has had 20+ years to get any possible kinks out of the suspensions and engines. Thats not exactly what I'd called a "feat".

drfill

'Cus I don't miss much.

What I did miss wuz Honda even pulling out one win. :confuse:

And....I also miss ECW , but that's for another forum I'm creating.....

DrFill

lexusguy

Honda will be ok. I think they are finally realizing whats wrong with their core products and have plans in place to correct that. Much more surprising was Mazda's awful showing. They were ranked down in the pits with VW and Land Rover. While Mazda isnt a Toyota, the fact that they are that far below even Nissan is not something I expected.

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, I also didnt expect Jag to do nearly as well as they did. They managed an amazing second place, which is in stark contrast to the poor ratings CR has for X and S-type. Wierd.

biker4

A soda sitting in a console cup holder between the seats is of near zero danger, where a GPS unit flying at your head like a missile can kill or blind you.
In my younger foolish days I used to be a fireman and came upon an accident in which the back seat passanger was killed by a keg of beer in the trunk (and the driver survived). One can conjure up all kinds of weird ways to get killed in a car. If one is that paranoid that they might be killed by a portable GPS unit on the dash of a car they have other issues. :sick:

Now back to the topic at hand....

My prediction is that IS220d will surpass IS350 sales even in NA in 3 years.

lexusguy

I dont see how thats possible. I dont think Lexus will even offer the 220d in NA. Not in the US, anyway.

kyfdx

I was almost killed by a keg of beer... long story..

maxhonda99

"My prediction is that IS220d will surpass IS350 sales even in NA in 3 years. "

I doubt that. The IS220d won't be sold in the US, which makes up the majority of North American Lexus sales, and the IS350 should have pretty good gas mileage figures as it is.

alpha01

Dont forget that was an IQS, and thats VERY different from the reliability ratings and predictions that CR makes. If everything goes flawlessly in a Jag for the first 3 months, and the car never works again after day 91, the Jag would still be rated high by JD Power in this measure.

~alpha

biker4

I said 3 years from now. Lexus will be in panic mode adding the diesel to its line ups when BMW sells them like hot cakes in two years. BMW 330d is a given for MY08 and Lexus will follow everything BMW does with the 3 series with the IS.

307web

IS is not right for diesel in the the US.
Lexus will probably have some diesels in the US within a few years, but more likely in SUVs and maybe the ES and LS.
Diesel does not fit the driving style and image of the IS.

maxhonda99

Sorry, Lexus won't be in panic mode.

In 3 years, BMWs 3-series with a diesel will not be a big seller. Diesels just aren't big in the US market. Diesel fuel is priced just as high as gasoline, diesel has a bad image in the US which takes time to overcome, and diesel isn't available on every street corner like regular gasoline.

I see, even 5-years from now, that diesels will be a fraction of total BMW 3-series sales.

blueguydotcom

in 3 years, BMWs 3-series with a diesel will not be a big seller. Diesels just aren't big in the US market.

Sounds like the same kind shortsighted thinking that's kept american car companies behind Japan as Hybrids have taken off. VW sells every TDI they send to the USA without any incentives. Many sell for over MSRP. There exists a market and it's growing...fast. MB's new diesel is supposedly selling strongly too. As gas prices creep to and beyond $3, more and more people are looking for ways to get more out of a tankful.

To be honest, gas hybrids don't generally deliver 45-50 mpg while running 80 mph on the freeway. Diesels do. The new cleaner burning diesel will make a difference too. As will seeing BMWs and MBs with performance oriented diesels. Check the polls in mags dedicated to BMW and you'll see the interest in the USA for a 330d is extremely high...0-60 in sub 7 seconds and 40 mpg is attractive to buyers.

Diesel fuel is priced just as high as gasoline, diesel has a bad image in the US which takes time to overcome, and diesel isn't available on every street corner like regular gasoline.

Diesel in CA is the price of regular unleaded, sometimes a nickel higher. That's a 20 cent savings per gallon as BMWs (and Lexus) require the highest octane. Add in the increase in economy that's at least 50% higher and now you're talking about savings people can see. .

I see, even 5-years from now, that diesels will be a fraction of total BMW 3-series sales.

We'll see. I sincerely hope you're wrong.

lexusguy

We'll see. In CA, you still cant even buy cars such as the E320d. So its CA sales are 0, where as CA is the Prius' #1 market. So called "clean" diesel should allow 50 state sales, but its also going to raise the price per gallon, possibly to as much as premium gasoline.

I really dont know how successful BMW and Mercedes will be with their new diesels, but frankly, I just dont see Toyota putting much effort into US diesel cars. In Europe where diesels are more than half the market, sure. Not having a diesel there was killing them. Here though, I see Toyota doing HSD exclusively.

maxhonda99

"Sounds like the same kind shortsighted thinking that's kept american car companies behind Japan as Hybrids have taken off."

Not shortsighted. It's reality that americans in general don't like diesels. I would buy one if it burned as clean as a gas engine and gave great gas mileage. But let's face it, Diesel has a bad stigma attached to it. And that stigma is not going to disappear overnight. And 3-years is not that long of a time.

"VW sells every TDI they send to the USA without any incentives."

I see. And how many do they import to the US as a proportion of total sales???

"There exists a market and it's growing...fast."

I don't know where you live, but here it ain't growing. Current Diesel fuels keep diesel cars from being sold in California, New York, Massachusetts and maybe one or 2 other states. Hybrids are growing fast to, but you know what, 1% is nothing.

"As gas prices creep to and beyond $3, more and more people are looking for ways to get more out of a tankful."

Where have gas prices crept to beyone $3?? The only place I can think of is California. Also currently gas prices a rolling back a bit. Second, gas currently is still historically dirt cheap. If gas prices stay about this level, I believe consumers will get used to it, and go back to buying SUVs.

cybersol

I really dont know how successful BMW and Mercedes will be with their new diesels, but frankly, I just dont see Toyota putting much effort into US diesel cars. In Europe where diesels are more than half the market, sure. Not having a diesel there was killing them. Here though, I see Toyota doing HSD exclusively.

Long term, it shouldn't be that much more difficult to mate HSD to a diesel than to a conventional gas engine. Though I can barely imagine the torque such a beast would have. Maybe it will be coming to an IS near you in 2010.

lexusguy

Yes, a "hybrid synergy diesel" would be a sort of best of both worlds, with excellent city AND highway mileage.

blueguydotcom

Not shortsighted. It's reality that americans in general don't like diesels. I would buy one if it burned as clean as a gas engine and gave great gas mileage. But let's face it, Diesel has a bad stigma attached to it. And that stigma is not going to disappear overnight. And 3-years is not that long of a time.


Oh, like the rise of hybrids (and current silly backlash against them), I see and hear more and more from people about Diesel.

I see. And how many do they import to the US as a proportion of total sales???

Last I read it's a number around 10% of total imports. VW's been the only one holding down the diesel fort. visit a VW forum and ask about the TDI...they worship it..

I don't know where you live, but here it ain't growing. Current Diesel fuels keep diesel cars from being sold in California, New York, Massachusetts and maybe one or 2 other states. Hybrids are growing fast to, but you know what, 1% is nothing.


I live in CA. I know people who drive them here and have them registered out of state. give manufacturers a roadblock and a possible sale...they'll find a way to make that sale. when the catalytic converter was mandated manus complained. then they adapted and found a way to move product. the same will happen.

Where have gas prices crept to beyone $3?? The only place I can think of is California.

Yes, CA. I've seen it over $3 at a few stations just two weeks ago.

Also currently gas prices a rolling back a bit. Second, gas currently is still historically dirt cheap. If gas prices stay about this level, I believe consumers will get used to it, and go back to buying SUVs.

The price will only go up. We get excited now when we see premium for under $2.50. It's like xmas is early.

Why be such a naysayer? What's the beef against diesel? Do you dislike engines that last far longer than gas gobblers? lower torque of gas engines? less efficiency?

biker4

Once people get over the unfounded stigma associated with diesels, the sales will happen in a big way. Like any other car, once someone in the neighborhood gets one and starts singing its praises, the flock will follow. And the tree huggers won't have much sway since all diesels will meet the same emission standards as regular gas powered cars.

Look at any current news items about the new IS and it was preceded a short time before it by a similar announcement from BMW about the 3 series. When BMW officially announces the debut of the 330d in the US, within a short time Lexus will announce the availability of something similar for the IS. The only exception to this straight match of the 3 series with the IS might be the availability of a wagon.

lexusguy

There are quite a few interesting article's in this months C&D about this very subject. One is about a new type of gasoline engine that is able to use both the gasoline and diesel type of combustion methods and switch on the fly depending on engine workload. There are only very early tests at this point, but supposedly this new engine design is actually as much as 10% more efficient than a diesel engine while running on gasoline, and without requiring forced induction.

shipo

"There are only very early tests at this point, but supposedly this new engine design is actually as much as 10% more efficient than a diesel engine while running on gasoline, and without requiring forced induction."

Fact: Diesel fuel has considerably more combustive power per gallon than does any type of gasoline. When you made the above statement were you saying that this new engine technology will convert a greather percentage of the total combustive power into useful work? Or are you saying that this new engine technology will yield greater MPG from gasoline than an otherwise similar diesel engine would from diesel fuel? The first I could easily believe, the second I reject as a pipe dream.

Best Regards,
Shipo