If it's anywhere equal to or less than the 330i in price, then I may bite.
""Isn’t this what many of us are waiting for? There will be plenty of reviews coming and, guess what, mine will trump all of them. So will yours!""
I think that reviews are nice as long as a lot of them come to the same conclusion. If you have one guy saying that the car is a lump of bread dough and another saying that it's an exotic, then one of them has to be either very boring, very hyper, or they don't know what they're talking about. I'm not putting any money on any of these cars until I drive them.
I'm test driving the IS350, the 330i (even though I did earlier :P ), the G35, the A4, the TL, and probably some other cars come December for my own X-mas present. Or November. Possibly October. Halloween present?
I never knew you were considering buying an IS ! Well.... well.... That's very interesting. Pray tell, what do you see in the IS250 to attract your $$$ ? Just wondering...
It's going to be cheaper than the 325i, unless Lexus totally loses their minds. A lot of airbags? Err.... that wasn't a very good reason. It should be a pretty good handler. In reality, I think that too many people are a little chivved that the IS250 "only" has 200 hp. Also, it has a stick.
It is? That would be nice. However the new base 3 is $20 more than the outgoing base IS. In addition, consider the following (source below):
“But it is the all-new IS that Lexus is hanging its hat on. In October, the company launches the IS 250 and the IS 350 in both rear-drive and all-wheel-drive versions. A coupe and convertible are being considered. Lexus intends to make the IS 350, which will have more than 300 hp, the halo car for the entire brand.”
IS 350 as halo car for the entire brand? Regardless of whether this turns out to be the case or not, the perceptions and realities seem to be changing radically. Now, let's see how we're gonna price this thing.
A little bit of sketchy info if you ask me. From what I have heard, the coupe is going to be the convertible and vice-versa, not seperate or whatever. Also, the IS 350 has no plans of being AWD as the quote conversely states somewhat ambiguously. Furthermore, Lexus has stated that the LF-A will go into production. I would count on the LF-A being the halo car for Lexus, dontcha think? :confuse:
A little bit of sketchy info if you ask me. From what I have heard, the coupe is going to be the convertible and vice-versa, not seperate or whatever. Also, the IS 350 has no plans of being AWD as the quote states somewhat ambiguously. Furthermore, Lexus has stated that the LF-A will go into production. I would count on the LF-A being the halo car for Lexus, dontcha think? :confuse:
I will be moving to Wisconsin pretty soon. Was thinking about getting that new IS. wondering if I should get the AWD or the 350. AWD is very slow with estimated 0-60 in a little over 8 seconds. 350 is under 6 seconds. but hey it's wisconsin weather so I dunno.
I would tend to think Wisconsin has pretty bad winter weather. Might be nice to have the AWD.
200HP is plenty for everyday driving. Not to mention the 250 should save you some $$$ on gas compared to the 350. I believe all of the engines require premium gas. Every dollar counts.
One thing to keep in mind. I've read that the AWD may come with run-flat tires and NO SPARE. If this is the case you'll want to consider buying a spare. Run-flats are only good for about 100 miles. If you're on a trip and can't get your tire replaced right away you could be stranded.
Lexus don't be CHEAP. Include a full size spare with rim like other luxury brands.
That's a good question. I know my A4 has a full size spare with rim. This is actually really nice because if you rotate that in with your other tires you can extend tire life
I'd rather have really nice 18" low profiles then run-flats any-day.
If you get a flat somebody's gonna have to change it one way or another.
I recommend buying the optional tire warranty if offered. It saved me $500 (2 flats) on my A4. Well worth every penny.
"I'd rather have really nice 18" low profiles then run-flats any-day."
You and me both. I've tried the SC430 with run-flats - terrible ride quality. A lot of owners take them off for regular tires and just hope not to get a flat.
yukohasso, theres always the G35x, A4 3.2, 330xi, and S60R to consider if you want more power than the IS250 has and AWD. The BMW and Volvo also offer MTs with their top engines, if thats important at all.
I got a message from the salesperson I am working with at Lexus today - he said they got in pricing & option information on the IS. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to return his call today (Saturday)... will have to wait till Monday. Anyone else hear anything from their dealer(s)?
"Did some searching and found a different forum where a guy was told 31k for the IS250 and 36k for the IS350. He seemed to be a salesman...weird.
Hopefully he's wrong. He stated a fully outfitted IS350 would cost around 44k."
I could easily believe that. We know that the IS250 manual will start at between $30k and $31k because the Lexus VP said so. I can see the IS350 auto starting at about $5000 more.
Then:
Sunroof, Parking Assist, Adaptive Front Lighting System combo: $2000 Levinson/Navi combo: $4000 Pre-collision System/Dynamic Cruise Control combo: $3000
Options add $9000 right there. Of course, practically no one will get the PCS/DCC combo.
“A little bit of sketchy info if you ask me.”
Well a lot of you guys are looking for exact specs and details. I forgot, this is a Lexus forum where crackerjack sleuthing is expected since Lexus is the best at withholding info. But I think the IS is a crossroads car and everything points to high expectation and non-Japanese-like pricing in comparison to the competition.
“I would count on the LF-A being the halo car for Lexus, dontcha think?”
Lexus is making bold moves going sport. If ever a car is destined for failure, the LF-A is it. The roots are too broad and deep in this segment. From Corvette to Ferrari, it is highly unlikely this car will light anyone’s candle. And it will need a lot more than power to do it.
Just read where the Accord is getting a 6MT for the V6. I like the Accord we have now so a 240-hp one would be even better. Not to mention our EX-L 5MT already stomped a automatic IS300. And 31K??? Lexus is on crack. I know the Accord ain't no IS...but it ain't 35K either. You guys enjoy your choices. I'm gonna get a EX-V6 stick and a MAZDA5.
Since an EX-L 5MT can most likely whoop a last gen. (and this gen.) BMW 325/525/530, then I guess all those 3/5 Series owners best trade in their BMWs and head straight to their friendly neighbourhood Honda dealership!!! But, oh wait, this segment isn't JUST about drag racing, is it? :surprise:
There's nothing an inexpensive mod can't fix regarding speed on an IS 250, that is if you are even really interested in the first place? :confuse: Personally, I love my luxury in a luxury sedan (and lots of speed too)!
If price is the reason to own a luxury sedan, then you are in the wrong forum. The very fact that a segment was carved out for *luxury* already tells you its gotta be higher priced.
The IS250 at $31K base, loaded should come to about $36K sounds about right to me. The IS350 base at $36K, and loaded to about $42K should be about right, at least that's what I am hoping for.
44k seems way out of line. I went to an Acura dealer and saw a TL for 40k, and it's still on the lot 5 months later. I almost bought a G35 this weekend, but I have decided to wait until the IS 06 comes out. If a tricked out IS is nice enough, and the test drive knocks me out, I will buy it. I have had Toyota products before, and have had nothing but good luck, especially with their service, not pricey at all.
30k-31k for a manual IS250? I thought for sure them using the 2.5 would help them trim the price down to an attractive level, but that kind of pricing is nothing special and possibly too high IMO. I just assume have a 2.5 over the 3.0 or 3.5 because speed isn't everything, but I think most customers expect a lower price than this for barely 200hp and 180 torque.
And already the defenders are coming in saying if a couple of thousand breaks the bank then you're in the wrong segment. People in this segment are still price-sensitive, just not as much as a Corolla or Civic shopper. And if that's the case then Lexus should have simply made the 3.0 standard and raise the price accordingly. Afterall what's another 2k right?
Most people are going to add an automatic, sunroof, and possibly AWD. You're talking mid 30's pricing and you still have the 2.5 engine. I think the IS250 will do fine and may even be a big hit, but there's definetly something off about the pricing IMO if these numbers are true.
Have the numbers appeared on the Lexus site yet? A dealer will tell you anything. I think that 31k is a little high fir an IS250 but if 36k is the price for the IS350, then I'm very interested. Let them eat cake, eh? :P
If IS250 is going to cost 31k-36k Lexus will have a hard time convincing people to buy one. G35 has much more power and costs that much. BMW 325 has more power then IS250 and costs this much. Acura TL offers more power for less (fully loaded). IS350 might still be a bargain at 36k but not IS250. IS250 should start well under $30k for what it offers (I would say 27-28k base 32-33k fully equipped).
Many people have posted messages expecting the IS350 price to be in the low $40Ks. Although the IS350 competes with the BMW 330i, it will not be successful if Lexus/Toyota tries to sell it at BMW prices even though the IS350 will have 50 more HP. The 330i MSRP with options (automatic transmission, premium package, metallic paint, fold-down rear seat, and carpeted floor mats) is $41,545. The real competition (at least from a price perspective) is the Infiniti G35. Infiniti has finally created a successful model in the US and is on a pace to sell about 85,000 G35s this year. The G35 MSRP with options (premium package, automatic transmission) is $35,110. A similarly equipped IS350 would have to be priced at no more than $37,000. If the IS350 is priced higher, then people will either buy a 330i or spend a few thousand less and buy a G35.
The IS250 seems to be the wrong car for the wrong market. It's heavier than the old IS300 and has less HP and torque. The competition has gone to larger engines. The only reason that I can think of for using the 2.5 liter engine instead of the 3.0 liter engine in the GS300 or only having the 3.5 liter engine would be for lower insurance premiums assuming the insurance companies price them differently. If the MSRP for a loaded IS250 (leather, sun roof, xenon headlights, Mark Levinson audio, etc.) is more than $32K-33K, then Lexus will not sell very many IS250s.
I already own a RWD sedan. My 124,000 mile 1994 LS400 isn't even broken in yet. The IS was gonna be my daily driver. But if the gas mileage is gonna be the same (or better) in the more powerful Accord. And the Accord has everything that the IS has for possibly $10K less. To me it's a no brainer.
I respect you guys' decision to buy the IS. I can see why you may prefer it. Heck I even prefer it up to a certain price point. But I don't have an SCCA membership so the RWD handling isn't all that to me. Especially when the TSX and Mazda6 prove FWD can handle too.
My driving is 90% four lane or interstate so there's nothing that I can do in the IS that can't be done in the Accord, or the Galant, or the Camry etc. As far as the inexpensive mods for the IS....Wouldn't those same inexpensive mods be available for the Honda V6 too. And there's more displacement to work with.
Enjoy your IS's. I'll be lurking and living my IS dreams through you.
Seems we have taken a turn and decided to bash the IS for it's expected high $$?
Given the marque it represents, the sexy new lines, the lofty level of standard equipment, the excellent handling of it's predecessor, and the quality and service built into it from day 1, I strongly disagree with anyone questioning $30k as a high price.
The price is right! The POWER is wrong. The car is an EXCELLENT value, IF you can get around it's below-average power, which seems to me to be the only real weakness in the IS250.
It's a strange weakness to have, since a $32k IS has 225HP, and a $19k Matrix XRS has 180Hp.
Considering that 75-80% of buyers will get an Auto, "fun-to-drive" will not be high on their list of priorities.
The only time I've had fun in a car with a slushbox was the ride home from the Senior Prom! :P
Drivers like me are hurt by power-to-weight ratio. The average Lexus buyer will find enough distraction (features)to easily overlook it.
If Lexus is looking for conquest sales from BMW and alike, they may have missed the mark, but this car will have legs.
I don't get it, you always knew the IS250 was going to cost much more than a Honda Accord, yet you wanted to buy one. Now that you someone says it will cost $31K base, the Accord is a better buy because it is cheaper? Even if the IS250 came it at $29K, the Accord was going to be much cheaper! ANd from the beginning speculation has been that it would sticker around $30K.
We have an Accord now. A EX-L 5 speed. They are redesigning it next year and there is supposed to be a V6 6MT version for the first time ever. That's the change. If the IS is gonna be $35K equipped the way I might want it, I'd rather have the $25k 250hp Accord and the Mazda5. Another car that's available for the first time next year. A mini-minivan with a 5 speed manual tranny...I've wanted another one of those since my 1989 Civic wagon.
The Accord isn't a better buy because it's cheaper. Heck if you don't want one, it's not a better buy at all. But I already have a Lexus that I love so I don't care about the name. I don't autocross, so I won't get to enjoy the marginal advantage RWD might have there. And while I love the interior of the Lexus, the Accord isn't a penalty box.
The reasons I wanted a IS were for it's V6 power, RWD, nicer interior and Toyota reliability. If they had given it even 225 hp it would have been fine. But cutting the power when they have suitable engines on the shelf is unexcusable if they don't offer some financial incentive. The price difference between the IS and the Accord isn't worth it IMHO. But that's just me.
If price is the reason to own a luxury sedan, then you are in the wrong forum.
Goodness gracious me, how gentrified this forum has become.
Does this mean I have address each forum member as Sir, Lord or Madam.
OAC, I dont know what century you are from but luxury has become McDonaldized/Commoditized among the middle classes who will always try to buy luxury at a good price.
Yes, price is a reason why most people buy luxury! Have you noticed the MBs, BMWs and yes God-forbid Lexuses parked in front of middle class homes? Have you noticed the affordable Luxury in the Kia Amati?
31K for a underpowered IS car that claims to be a performance vehicle is OUTRAGEOUS. Your luxury rationalizations does not change this fact!
I cant think of a better fwd car than a 6mt v6 Accord, except maybe a 6mt 2.2 l diesel Accord!
And what could be a better car than a diesel Accord? A diesel Lexus IS ofcourse. Although I have no intention to immigrate across the Atlantic in order to buy one!
The 5-series is crazy overpriced. But hey, they ain't trying to set sales records. That's why there are 20 versions of all thier cars all sharing the same engines.
Well said. The reason why the IS 250 is priced the way it is (speculation of course, roughly accurate) is because Lexus has earned the right to do so. These cars that compete in the luxury sport sedan segment have nothing on the luxury of the new IS. Take a look at the G35 for instance and you can see exactly why the IS is priced the way it is in comparisson. Some people just love the way they can be coddled in the lavish luxury of Lexus and I am one of them and sure can agree with the direction that Lexus went in. Just because some people disagree with the direction of the IS 250, doesn't mean that people won't buy it. Should others not buy a G35 or TL simply because the other side of the train tracks doesn't agree with the design of the car. Hell no, that's why there are options in the market for cars.
Oh, but a 200HP IS250 is underpowered at $31K !!! Right. If you are not drag-racing on city streets, why won't 200HP be enough for most in-city and freeway driving with speed limits at 70-75MPH.
maybe san diego, sf, sacramento and la are different from the rest of the country but in my experience when I hop on our short on ramps (or off them) that's one time where I love having gobs of power at my disposal.
as for speed limits...again, whatever. last month I drove from sf to la in under 4 hours - averaged 95 mph including a stop for gas.
he reason why the IS 250 is priced the way it is (speculation of course, roughly accurate) is because Lexus has earned the right to do so. These cars that compete in the luxury sport sedan segment have nothing on the luxury of the new IS. Take a look at the G35 for instance and you can see exactly why the IS is priced the way it is in comparisson. Some people just love the way they can be coddled in the lavish luxury of Lexus and I am one of them and sure can agree with the direction that Lexus went in.
Lexus, like infinit, is an unproven player in the entry lux sport sedan market. infiniti and acura took their medicine to prove their mettle. lexus hasn't. if the pricing i've found thus far is right...this car is gonna be a tough sell.
Should others not buy a G35 or TL simply because the other side of the train tracks doesn't agree with the design of the car. Hell no, that's why there are options in the market for cars.
The big different comes in that the TL has 270 hp and the G35 298 - that kinda power helps make up for the cars other deficiencies and their nameplates lack of creds in the segment. lexus has no creditials in the segment and they're offering a car with sub-standard power...what's the advantage? luxury...right. lol if that were the selling point then the buyer would get a cheeseball creampuff es330.
I do 90MPH+ easily in my 4-banger 130HP '03 Matrix XR. And that car handles much better than many of the CamCords out there. Except when I am climbing a hilly road, the car can really giddy up pretty quick, with a lotta noise and grunt tho'.... I may not get to 60 in 6s, but then I am not a drag racer either. As I am sure you know very well, its not just about HP, is it ?
The 2007 Accord is not a total redesign. Its not even a major freshening, like the 2005 A4 for example. Its a fairly subtle nip\tuck, and almost all of it is in the rear. They are finally fixing that hideous butt that the Accord has had since 2003. Thats basically it. As far as I know, the Accord will still be 240hp, or 255 for the hybrid. If you think the Accord has all that the IS will offer, you apparently havent looked at the options list on the new IS. Not even close.
As for modding the IS250 vs. modding an Accord, no its not the same. The old IS300 could be turned into a firebreathing 600+hp monster, but this one doesnt use the Supra inline, and I dont know what the 2.5L will handle. In theory though, any RWD car can take as much power as the rear wheels can successfully get onto the pavement. With FWD, there's that whole torque steer problem, especially with a manual transmition. The TL 6-speed is a good example of why power, MTs, and FWD dont mix.
As for the power that the IS250 does have, while I wish Lexus would've used the 3.0L (at least for the NA market anyway), it IS competitive with the A4 2.0T (200hp, 207ft.lbs starting at $28K), and beats the Benz C230K (189hp, 192ft.lbs starting at $30K) it thoroughly spanks the Benz C240 V6 (168hp, 177ft.lbs starting at $33K) The $30K BMW 325i has 215\185, but BMWs usually have more power (or are at least faster) than a comparable Lexus. Keep in mind that Lexus considers these cars as direct competition to the IS250, and not the TL and G.
People are not buying these cars because of great power-to-cost ratio. The C240 is downright embarrasing in that respect. You buy one of these to get into a Benz or BMW for a much more wallet friendly price than a 5 or E.
The IS pricing structure is NOT out of line. It's in line with BMW and Mercedes(The REAL Competition)
So how did the G35 all of sudden become uncompetitive with 298hp? The G35 is the one Japanese model that is most competitive to German marques. And based on specs and estimated prices for the IS, the G35 looks real compelling!
Praising the IS by ignoring the G35 is similar to an ostrich that puts his head in the sand when confronted with a lion.
The G35 is already becoming DATED. The IS is a BRAND NEW model. We'll let SALES do the talking, mmmm k?
Two more years during model year 08 the lion will become even more ferocious!
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I have a 6 speed TSX right now and really love it. It would part with it for only 2 cars: 2.2L diesel Lexus IS or 2.2L diesel TSX. When are these automotive pinheads going to wake up and offer North Americans the same engine choices Europeans get? Gas hit $1.05 per L for 91 in my area last Friday, for the 1st time ever. (this is about $3.25US/gallon).
I refuse to buy the old line that North Americans will not buy diesels. Everyone who offers them in North America right now are selling out - just look at the Jeep. I know there is the emissions problem, but really that can be overcome with cleaner fuel and some in-line scrubbers..
"Praising the IS by ignoring the G35 is similar to an ostrich that puts his head in the sand when confronted with a lion. "
The G35 is a nice car, yes? However, it is not nearly as dynamic as the 3-series. Good car: yes. Class leader: certainly not. I would much perfer an IS350 to a G35, just because I think that Nissan/Infiniti has pimped out that VQ to just about every car they have. Mostly a psychological thing, but it really annoys me. I woe the day when that engine gets old: Nissan will be in it up to their ears.
I think that the IS will be more competitive with the the German sedans just because it has one thing that the G35 lacks: refinement. The G35 doesn't feel like a luxury car as much as the 3-Series. And based on the pics of the next IS, it will also lose to the IS in that department. These are supposed to still be luxury sedans, yes? Infiniti made a sport sedan the American way: vis. make everything bigger. Bigger engine, longer wheelbase... etc. Compared to the 3-Series, the G35 handles like a boat. Not saying that the handling on the G35 is bad, just that the 3-Series handles oh so well.
Overall, there are diffrent cars for different types. I think that the G35 looks a little too much like a boy racer, and that the 3-Series is too expensive for what you get. Neither are a perfect fit for me, and I doubt that the IS will be either. But hey, it takes all types.
In 2 to 3 years Toyota will observe the overwhelming success of Honda/BMW diesel introductions. After that Toyota will decide to offer both hybrids and diesels. An IS diesel makes much more sense than a hybrid IS.
Are Honda and BMW introducing diesels here? Earlier it was reported that Hinda was going to bring the Accord (TSX) diesel, but then they issue a clarification saying it was a mistake. Maybe BMW.
Also, Mercedes is coming out with the B class in Canada (sorry USA). Again, they are only bringing gas engines in in year 1, although some MB dude says that a diesel will follow. It will get my wife out of her CR-V if they bring the diesel. I think that only when confronted with people leaving their brands for those who offer what you want, will Honda and Toyo bring their diesels here. They are sales leaders and so probably feel that they can afford to sit and wait. What I don't understand is the relectance of companies like Mitsu and Saab (GM) - with one foot in the grave - to try to 'steal' market share by offering innovative products not offered by the bigger players. In both cases, that means turbo diesels.
"I would much perfer an IS350 to a G35, just because I think that Nissan/Infiniti has pimped out that VQ to just about every car they have. Mostly a psychological thing, but it really annoys me."
If this really annoys you, you might consider that the Toyota 3.5 GR V6 engine is going to be used in practically all V6 Toyota/Lexus products.
The following products will probably receive the 3.5 GR V6 engine within the next two years.
The following trucks currently use the 4.0 GR V6 engine:
4Runner Tacoma Tundra
-------------------------------------
This strategy is a lot like how Nissan/Infiniti uses its 3.5 VQ V6 in its 6-cylinder cars and the 4.0 VQ V6 in its 6-cylinder trucks. Both companies will tweak the engines for different horsepower and torque ratings from model to model.
The G35 is no "boy racer" it's a hot sports car that is second to none if you want power and handling. If you want style, power and lux, buy a TL, total class. BMW is way over priced for what you get.
"The G35 doesn't feel like a luxury car as much as the 3-Series."
The new IS appears to be luxury car! No denying that!
For me the 3 series is not a luxury car! The 3 series without options is quite spartan(IMO that is great). I would rather buy a 330i at the price of a underpowered 325 loaded with gizmos.
In my case a BMW 330i with minimal options is a fantastic bargain vs. a automatic tranny IS350 that will be loaded with standard features that I do not want.
I prefer BMW's a la Carte vs. a Lexus Fixed Menu approach! To each their own!
I'm starting to worry about the price-points for the new IS. What you hear on the video provided on the Lexus website is that pricing will be almost the same, but I'm reading rumors that a fully loaded IS350 will come in at $42 - 44k. I'm thinking that's WAY TOO MUCH. You could get a much more prestigious badge for that price.
Why would you pay more for a 2006 IS250 with less HP then the older model?? It doesn't make sense to me. This model should be priced in-line or slightly less then competing cars in it's class. Especially if Lexus wants more of the BWM market. They're going have to price accordingly.
I'm thinking the entry level IS250 should be $30k. Entry level IS350 should be no more then $35k then $6k in options any more then that and I think they'll be turning people off.
Since Lexus is already releasing information about the new IS they are taking a hit on current IS sales. They've already let the cat out of the bag they should start releasing more information and pricing.
What are your thoughts on price points? What's TOO high for a IS250 (RWD), IS250 (AWD), IS350???
Who's saying the IS350 will be loaded with standard features you don't want?
Let's compare the IS250/350 with the new GS.
GS Options are: Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Audio System Package includes Lexus voice-activated DVD Navigation System with backup camera, Mark Levinson® 14-speaker 330-watt Premium Surround Sound Audio System. Additional Options: - Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS) and Dynamic Radar Cruise Control - One-Touch Open/Close Moonroof - Intuitive Parking Assist - Rain-sensing variable intermittent windshield wipers with mist control and headlamp washers - Rear spoiler - Ventilated front seats - Power rear-window sunshade - Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo net, Trunk mat and Wheel locks)
It's probably safe to assume the IS will have a similar setup. Standard features are power windows / locks / smart key / etc. Are you buying a luxury car or something with just seats and an engine?
... but I'm reading rumors that a fully loaded IS350 will come in at $42 - 44k. I'm thinking that's WAY TOO MUCH...
We've been on this road already...
How many cars with 310HP/280Ibft are priced under $40K ? Actually NONE, although a honorable mention for the G35 6MT's 298/260 priced in the mid-$30K range. But a 298HP G35 ain't no 310HP IS350 is it, especially with the higher prestige of Lexus over Infiniti. Add in the new features that come with the new IS350, features you'd get in high-end luxury sedans - 4th gen Nav system, Mark Levinson audio, Bluetooth, keyless go, iPod connection, PCS, air bags everywhere - head, side, knee, torso, etc...., and many more things in this car. A car that will re-define luxury and sport in an entry-level sedan is what the new IS350 will be.... Besides, quality and refinement comes at a price, you know !
"In my case a BMW 330i with minimal options is a fantastic bargain vs. a automatic tranny IS350 that will be loaded with standard features that I do not want. I prefer BMW's a la Carte vs. a Lexus Fixed Menu approach! To each their own!"
Dewey, good luck with your purchase and enjoy your new Beemer.
About the HP in the IS250 - with gas prices on the way up, I only want the necessary HP for normal driving, and maybe a few extra hp for occasional use. If the 250 has "good" 0-60 and great mph - it would be fine for me.
Still undecided about AWD (without living in the North, not sure of the MPH, added weight vs. real need for AWD (in light of traction control, and other devices to assist slippage) - any thoughts on the benefit of having AWD?
Comments
""Isn’t this what many of us are waiting for? There will be plenty of reviews coming and, guess what, mine will trump all of them. So will yours!""
I think that reviews are nice as long as a lot of them come to the same conclusion. If you have one guy saying that the car is a lump of bread dough and another saying that it's an exotic, then one of them has to be either very boring, very hyper, or they don't know what they're talking about. I'm not putting any money on any of these cars until I drive them.
I'm test driving the IS350, the 330i (even though I did earlier :P ), the G35, the A4, the TL, and probably some other cars come December for my own X-mas present. Or November. Possibly October. Halloween present?
DrFill
I never knew you were considering buying an IS ! Well.... well.... That's very interesting. Pray tell, what do you see in the IS250 to attract your $$$ ? Just wondering...
I'm looking at an IS350 myself as a possibility.
It is? That would be nice. However the new base 3 is $20 more than the outgoing base IS. In addition, consider the following (source below):
“But it is the all-new IS that Lexus is hanging its hat on. In October, the company launches the IS 250 and the IS 350 in both rear-drive and all-wheel-drive versions. A coupe and convertible are being considered. Lexus intends to make the IS 350, which will have more than 300 hp, the halo car for the entire brand.”
IS 350 as halo car for the entire brand? Regardless of whether this turns out to be the case or not, the perceptions and realities seem to be changing radically. Now, let's see how we're gonna price this thing.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=105957
200HP is plenty for everyday driving. Not to mention the 250 should save you some $$$ on gas compared to the 350. I believe all of the engines require premium gas. Every dollar counts.
One thing to keep in mind. I've read that the AWD may come with run-flat tires and NO SPARE. If this is the case you'll want to consider buying a spare. Run-flats are only good for about 100 miles. If you're on a trip and can't get your tire replaced right away you could be stranded.
Lexus don't be CHEAP. Include a full size spare with rim like other luxury brands.
~alpha
I'd rather have really nice 18" low profiles then run-flats any-day.
If you get a flat somebody's gonna have to change it one way or another.
I recommend buying the optional tire warranty if offered. It saved me $500 (2 flats) on my A4. Well worth every penny.
You and me both. I've tried the SC430 with run-flats - terrible ride quality. A lot of owners take them off for regular tires and just hope not to get a flat.
yukohasso, theres always the G35x, A4 3.2, 330xi, and S60R to consider if you want more power than the IS250 has and AWD. The BMW and Volvo also offer MTs with their top engines, if thats important at all.
Anyone else hear anything from their dealer(s)?
Hopefully he's wrong. He stated a fully outfitted IS350 would cost around 44k.
Hopefully he's wrong. He stated a fully outfitted IS350 would cost around 44k."
I could easily believe that. We know that the IS250 manual will start at between $30k and $31k because the Lexus VP said so. I can see the IS350 auto starting at about $5000 more.
Then:
Sunroof, Parking Assist, Adaptive Front Lighting System combo: $2000
Levinson/Navi combo: $4000
Pre-collision System/Dynamic Cruise Control combo: $3000
Options add $9000 right there. Of course, practically no one will get the PCS/DCC combo.
Well a lot of you guys are looking for exact specs and details. I forgot, this is a Lexus forum where crackerjack sleuthing is expected since Lexus is the best at withholding info. But I think the IS is a crossroads car and everything points to high expectation and non-Japanese-like pricing in comparison to the competition.
“I would count on the LF-A being the halo car for Lexus, dontcha think?”
Lexus is making bold moves going sport. If ever a car is destined for failure, the LF-A is it. The roots are too broad and deep in this segment. From Corvette to Ferrari, it is highly unlikely this car will light anyone’s candle. And it will need a lot more than power to do it.
There's nothing an inexpensive mod can't fix regarding speed on an IS 250, that is if you are even really interested in the first place? :confuse: Personally, I love my luxury in a luxury sedan (and lots of speed too)!
If price is the reason to own a luxury sedan, then you are in the wrong forum. The very fact that a segment was carved out for *luxury* already tells you its gotta be higher priced.
The IS250 at $31K base, loaded should come to about $36K sounds about right to me. The IS350 base at $36K, and loaded to about $42K should be about right, at least that's what I am hoping for.
And already the defenders are coming in saying if a couple of thousand breaks the bank then you're in the wrong segment. People in this segment are still price-sensitive, just not as much as a Corolla or Civic shopper. And if that's the case then Lexus should have simply made the 3.0 standard and raise the price accordingly. Afterall what's another 2k right?
Most people are going to add an automatic, sunroof, and possibly AWD. You're talking mid 30's pricing and you still have the 2.5 engine. I think the IS250 will do fine and may even be a big hit, but there's definetly something off about the pricing IMO if these numbers are true.
VW created the chassis...Porsche simply dropped in their engine and tuned the suspension.
I know many people who would gladly buy a sexy LF-A Lexus over a Corvette anyday and believe me, so would I! (give me 5 years)
to each his own. both are ugly, overpriced and impractical in my eyes.
The IS250 seems to be the wrong car for the wrong market. It's heavier than the old IS300 and has less HP and torque. The competition has gone to larger engines. The only reason that I can think of for using the 2.5 liter engine instead of the 3.0 liter engine in the GS300 or only having the 3.5 liter engine would be for lower insurance premiums assuming the insurance companies price them differently. If the MSRP for a loaded IS250 (leather, sun roof, xenon headlights, Mark Levinson audio, etc.) is more than $32K-33K, then Lexus will not sell very many IS250s.
I respect you guys' decision to buy the IS. I can see why you may prefer it. Heck I even prefer it up to a certain price point. But I don't have an SCCA membership so the RWD handling isn't all that to me. Especially when the TSX and Mazda6 prove FWD can handle too.
My driving is 90% four lane or interstate so there's nothing that I can do in the IS that can't be done in the Accord, or the Galant, or the Camry etc. As far as the inexpensive mods for the IS....Wouldn't those same inexpensive mods be available for the Honda V6 too. And there's more displacement to work with.
Enjoy your IS's. I'll be lurking and living my IS dreams through you.
Given the marque it represents, the sexy new lines, the lofty level of standard equipment, the excellent handling of it's predecessor, and the quality and service built into it from day 1, I strongly disagree with anyone questioning $30k as a high price.
The price is right! The POWER is wrong. The car is an EXCELLENT value, IF you can get around it's below-average power, which seems to me to be the only real weakness in the IS250.
It's a strange weakness to have, since a $32k IS has 225HP, and a $19k Matrix XRS has 180Hp.
Considering that 75-80% of buyers will get an Auto, "fun-to-drive" will not be high on their list of priorities.
The only time I've had fun in a car with a slushbox was the ride home from the Senior Prom! :P
Drivers like me are hurt by power-to-weight ratio. The average Lexus buyer will find enough distraction (features)to easily overlook it.
If Lexus is looking for conquest sales from BMW and alike, they may have missed the mark, but this car will have legs.
Just not like Secretariat.
DrFill
The Accord isn't a better buy because it's cheaper. Heck if you don't want one, it's not a better buy at all. But I already have a Lexus that I love so I don't care about the name. I don't autocross, so I won't get to enjoy the marginal advantage RWD might have there. And while I love the interior of the Lexus, the Accord isn't a penalty box.
The reasons I wanted a IS were for it's V6 power, RWD, nicer interior and Toyota reliability. If they had given it even 225 hp it would have been fine. But cutting the power when they have suitable engines on the shelf is unexcusable if they don't offer some financial incentive. The price difference between the IS and the Accord isn't worth it IMHO. But that's just me.
Goodness gracious me, how gentrified this forum has become.
Does this mean I have address each forum member as Sir, Lord or Madam.
OAC, I dont know what century you are from but luxury has become McDonaldized/Commoditized among the middle classes who will always try to buy luxury at a good price.
Yes, price is a reason why most people buy luxury! Have you noticed the MBs, BMWs and yes God-forbid Lexuses parked in front of middle class homes? Have you noticed the affordable Luxury in the Kia Amati?
31K for a underpowered IS car that claims to be a performance vehicle is OUTRAGEOUS. Your luxury rationalizations does not change this fact!
And what could be a better car than a diesel Accord? A diesel Lexus IS ofcourse. Although I have no intention to immigrate across the Atlantic in order to buy one!
Good Work Lexus!
maybe san diego, sf, sacramento and la are different from the rest of the country but in my experience when I hop on our short on ramps (or off them) that's one time where I love having gobs of power at my disposal.
as for speed limits...again, whatever. last month I drove from sf to la in under 4 hours - averaged 95 mph including a stop for gas.
i use my car's power and handling. shrug.
Lexus, like infinit, is an unproven player in the entry lux sport sedan market. infiniti and acura took their medicine to prove their mettle. lexus hasn't. if the pricing i've found thus far is right...this car is gonna be a tough sell.
Should others not buy a G35 or TL simply because the other side of the train tracks doesn't agree with the design of the car. Hell no, that's why there are options in the market for cars.
The big different comes in that the TL has 270 hp and the G35 298 - that kinda power helps make up for the cars other deficiencies and their nameplates lack of creds in the segment. lexus has no creditials in the segment and they're offering a car with sub-standard power...what's the advantage? luxury...right. lol if that were the selling point then the buyer would get a cheeseball creampuff es330.
I do 90MPH+ easily in my 4-banger 130HP '03 Matrix XR. And that car handles much better than many of the CamCords out there. Except when I am climbing a hilly road, the car can really giddy up pretty quick, with a lotta noise and grunt tho'.... I may not get to 60 in 6s, but then I am not a drag racer either. As I am sure you know very well, its not just about HP, is it ?
As for modding the IS250 vs. modding an Accord, no its not the same. The old IS300 could be turned into a firebreathing 600+hp monster, but this one doesnt use the Supra inline, and I dont know what the 2.5L will handle. In theory though, any RWD car can take as much power as the rear wheels can successfully get onto the pavement. With FWD, there's that whole torque steer problem, especially with a manual transmition. The TL 6-speed is a good example of why power, MTs, and FWD dont mix.
As for the power that the IS250 does have, while I wish Lexus would've used the 3.0L (at least for the NA market anyway), it IS competitive with the A4 2.0T (200hp, 207ft.lbs starting at $28K), and beats the Benz C230K (189hp, 192ft.lbs starting at $30K) it thoroughly spanks the Benz C240 V6 (168hp, 177ft.lbs starting at $33K) The $30K BMW 325i has 215\185, but BMWs usually have more power (or are at least faster) than a comparable Lexus. Keep in mind that Lexus considers these cars as direct competition to the IS250, and not the TL and G.
People are not buying these cars because of great power-to-cost ratio. The C240 is downright embarrasing in that respect. You buy one of these to get into a Benz or BMW for a much more wallet friendly price than a 5 or E.
So how did the G35 all of sudden become uncompetitive with 298hp? The G35 is the one Japanese model that is most competitive to German marques. And based on specs and estimated prices for the IS, the G35 looks real compelling!
Praising the IS by ignoring the G35 is similar to an ostrich that puts his head in the sand when confronted with a lion.
The G35 is already becoming DATED. The IS is a BRAND NEW model. We'll let SALES do the talking, mmmm k?
Two more years during model year 08 the lion will become even more ferocious!
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2.2L diesel Lexus IS or 2.2L diesel TSX. When are these automotive pinheads going to wake up and offer North Americans the same engine choices Europeans get? Gas hit $1.05 per L for 91 in my area last Friday, for the 1st time ever. (this is about $3.25US/gallon).
I refuse to buy the old line that North Americans will not buy diesels. Everyone who offers them in North America right now are selling out - just look at the Jeep. I know there is the emissions problem, but really that can be overcome with cleaner fuel and some in-line scrubbers..
The G35 is a nice car, yes? However, it is not nearly as dynamic as the 3-series. Good car: yes. Class leader: certainly not. I would much perfer an IS350 to a G35, just because I think that Nissan/Infiniti has pimped out that VQ to just about every car they have. Mostly a psychological thing, but it really annoys me. I woe the day when that engine gets old: Nissan will be in it up to their ears.
I think that the IS will be more competitive with the the German sedans just because it has one thing that the G35 lacks: refinement. The G35 doesn't feel like a luxury car as much as the 3-Series. And based on the pics of the next IS, it will also lose to the IS in that department. These are supposed to still be luxury sedans, yes? Infiniti made a sport sedan the American way: vis. make everything bigger. Bigger engine, longer wheelbase... etc. Compared to the 3-Series, the G35 handles like a boat. Not saying that the handling on the G35 is bad, just that the 3-Series handles oh so well.
Overall, there are diffrent cars for different types. I think that the G35 looks a little too much like a boy racer, and that the 3-Series is too expensive for what you get. Neither are a perfect fit for me, and I doubt that the IS will be either. But hey, it takes all types.
In 2 to 3 years Toyota will observe the overwhelming success of Honda/BMW diesel introductions. After that Toyota will decide to offer both hybrids and diesels. An IS diesel makes much more sense than a hybrid IS.
Also, Mercedes is coming out with the B class in Canada (sorry USA). Again, they are only bringing gas engines in in year 1, although some MB dude says that a diesel will follow. It will get my wife out of her CR-V if they bring the diesel. I think that only when confronted with people leaving their brands for those who offer what you want, will Honda and Toyo bring their diesels here. They are sales leaders and so probably feel that they can afford to sit and wait. What I don't understand is the relectance of companies like Mitsu and Saab (GM) - with one foot in the grave - to try to 'steal' market share by offering innovative products not offered by the bigger players. In both cases, that means turbo diesels.
If this really annoys you, you might consider that the Toyota 3.5 GR V6 engine is going to be used in practically all V6 Toyota/Lexus products.
The following products will probably receive the 3.5 GR V6 engine within the next two years.
Camry
Solara
Solara Convertible
Sienna
Avalon
Highlander
ES350
IS350
IS350 Coupe/Convertible
GS350
GS450h
RX350
The following trucks currently use the 4.0 GR V6 engine:
4Runner
Tacoma
Tundra
-------------------------------------
This strategy is a lot like how Nissan/Infiniti uses its 3.5 VQ V6 in its 6-cylinder cars and the 4.0 VQ V6 in its 6-cylinder trucks. Both companies will tweak the engines for different horsepower and torque ratings from model to model.
The new IS appears to be luxury car! No denying that!
For me the 3 series is not a luxury car! The 3 series without options is quite spartan(IMO that is great). I would rather buy a 330i at the price of a underpowered 325 loaded with gizmos.
In my case a BMW 330i with minimal options is a fantastic bargain vs. a automatic tranny IS350 that will be loaded with standard features that I do not want.
I prefer BMW's a la Carte vs. a Lexus Fixed Menu approach! To each their own!
Why would you pay more for a 2006 IS250 with less HP then the older model?? It doesn't make sense to me. This model should be priced in-line or slightly less then competing cars in it's class. Especially if Lexus wants more of the BWM market. They're going have to price accordingly.
I'm thinking the entry level IS250 should be $30k.
Entry level IS350 should be no more then $35k
then $6k in options any more then that and I think they'll be turning people off.
Since Lexus is already releasing information about the new IS they are taking a hit on current IS sales. They've already let the cat out of the bag they should start releasing more information and pricing.
What are your thoughts on price points? What's TOO high for a IS250 (RWD), IS250 (AWD), IS350???
Let's compare the IS250/350 with the new GS.
GS Options are:
Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Audio System Package includes Lexus voice-activated DVD Navigation System with backup camera, Mark Levinson® 14-speaker 330-watt Premium Surround Sound Audio System.
Additional Options:
- Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS) and Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
- One-Touch Open/Close Moonroof
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Rain-sensing variable intermittent windshield wipers with mist control and headlamp washers
- Rear spoiler
- Ventilated front seats
- Power rear-window sunshade
- Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo net, Trunk mat and Wheel locks)
It's probably safe to assume the IS will have a similar setup. Standard features are power windows / locks / smart key / etc. Are you buying a luxury car or something with just seats and an engine?
We've been on this road already...
How many cars with 310HP/280Ibft are priced under $40K ? Actually NONE, although a honorable mention for the G35 6MT's 298/260 priced in the mid-$30K range. But a 298HP G35 ain't no 310HP IS350 is it, especially with the higher prestige of Lexus over Infiniti. Add in the new features that come with the new IS350, features you'd get in high-end luxury sedans - 4th gen Nav system, Mark Levinson audio, Bluetooth, keyless go, iPod connection, PCS, air bags everywhere - head, side, knee, torso, etc...., and many more things in this car. A car that will re-define luxury and sport in an entry-level sedan is what the new IS350 will be.... Besides, quality and refinement comes at a price, you know !
I prefer BMW's a la Carte vs. a Lexus Fixed Menu approach! To each their own!"
Dewey, good luck with your purchase and enjoy your new Beemer.
About the HP in the IS250 - with gas prices on the way up, I only want the necessary HP for normal driving, and maybe a few extra hp for occasional use. If the 250 has "good" 0-60 and great mph - it would be fine for me.
Still undecided about AWD (without living in the North, not sure of the MPH, added weight vs. real need for AWD (in light of traction control, and other devices to assist slippage) - any thoughts on the benefit of having AWD?
Cheers