Actually G35MT can be had for an invoice from VPP dealer, that is 28,288. Additionally Infinity announced 1k incentive on the car, making car price at 27k. I was considering 3er and G35, and it's a no brainer. I did not see the legendary "handling" of the 3 series. 3er is just a hype induced by the media and people trying convince themselves they didn't waste money.
do you live in Los Angeles, because I'm curious to know which dealership you've heard of that offers the G35 $1k less than invoice. For sheer financial purposes, a G35 will be an overall better bargain. Let's all be honest and frank, Lexus is the leader in the Japanese luxury segment. Acura, with the RL, is close but they need a V8 in their line up real bad. Their lack of not having a V8 killed arguably one of the best affordable supercars in the past 10 years or so (Acura NSX). Infiniti makes a solid car, but the Q45 is a depressing vehicle. I like the new M35 and M45, but those are more performance oriented vehicles.
Lexus has to price the new IS competitive to the market, but (like so many others) I feel that some of us will be priced out. Think of BMW 325 and 330, MBZ C230 and C350, the Lexus IS250 and Lexus IS350 will be priced along those lines. I'll tell you right now, the IS250 nicely equipped at 32-33K will sell like hot cakes. I see so many people driving around los angeles in MBZ C230's (which sell for about the same price), and these people do not buy this car because of its horsepower, or because of its sharp handling. People buy that car because they want to own a Mercedes. The same will be said with the Lexus IS250, but it will be a much better bang for the buck.
I'm just hopeful that I can get a nicely equipped IS350 with a moonroof and xenons, for about 37-38k. I still get the paddle shifters, keyless ignition, 300 plus hp, and all the other standard bells and whistles listed on lexus's site. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed, 2 1/2 months and we'll find out.
""I did not see the legendary "handling" of the 3 series. 3er is just a hype induced by the media and people trying convince themselves they didn't waste money.""
If so, then the media is even worse than I thought. Like I said before, the 3-Series is widely thought (and accepted, except by very few) to be the best handling car in its class, yes? I test drove a 330i a few weeks back and a G35 6MT about a month earlier. No competition. BMW didn't get where they were by media hype. I'll cede that their prices are high, but if someone is sane with the options, it shouldn't break 40k.
If the Lexus comes in fully loaded at 42K, I will jump and squeal for joy. That's a great price. Consider:
BMW 3-Series. Go to the options-thing. Put everything on it. 50K+. That's too much.
Volvo S60 R: Ditto. 48K. Ouch. A Volvo?
C-Class? You jest. Fully loaded C320: a hair over 50k.
A4? People actually think that the A4 is a tad cheaper. Not fully loaded: a loaded 3.1 will run you a pretty 54k.
Infiniti G35: ain't it a great car? Everyone seems to laud it so. Bottom line, fully loaded: 43K. Suddenly, 44k (or even 46k) for a more powerful IS350 doesn't look half bad. Of course, heaven forbid that anyone has to deal with all of the ghastly standard equipment on the IS! ((sarcasm on that last car))
Also, I don't see a better interior on the options list for the G35.
""do you live in Los Angeles, because I'm curious to know which dealership you've heard of that offers the G35 $1k less than invoice. For sheer financial purposes, a G35 will be an overall better bargain. Let's all be honest and frank, Lexus is the leader in the Japanese luxury segment. Acura, with the RL, is close but they need a V8 in their line up real bad. Their lack of not having a V8 killed arguably one of the best affordable supercars in the past 10 years or so (Acura NSX). Infiniti makes a solid car, but the Q45 is a depressing vehicle. I like the new M35 and M45, but those are more performance oriented vehicles.""
I like agreeing with people, so I will. Lexus has swung quite a bat since they collectively stunned the luxury car market back with the LS400. Acura is in dire need of a V8, and I also believe that the NSX could've kicked some major Ferrari, and its styling will never get old for me. People who have Q45's really like them, but the fact is that the Q45 isn't as good as the LS. Better than a Town Car or Deville.
I cant see the advantage of AWD if you are not living through tundra-like Canadian winters. In fact my wife and I commute with RWD cars during the nastiest winter days(sometimes with the help of Good Samaritans shovelling us out of snow banks)
with gas prices on the way up, I only want the necessary HP for normal driving
For the first time in my life I have been looking not only at performance specs but gas mileage. And as I repeated many times I do fancy the idea of a fuel efficient diesel IS(it just aint gonna happen)
have a 6 speed TSX right now and really love it. It would part with it for only 2 cars: 2.2L diesel Lexus IS or 2.2L diesel TSX.
In my last post I did not answer you directly!
Honda has officially announced that they will introduce diesels during 07. So you may not have to wait long for a diesel TSX. If not a diesel TSX, then a Accord with a 2.2l diesel engine.
Just like the 3-series. Many of us think it's too expensive too. So we buy other cars. There are a lot of choices out there.
The difference is. Some will want an IS but think it's too expensive and move on to something else. Before you make that decision though you have to ask yourself will you still lust after the IS when you see one rolling by. If so you might as well bite the bullet and buy the it. I saw a GS the other day. Nice car. Didn't blow me away. The IS is a smaller version of that car. That, along with the previously mentioned reasons is when I decided I didn't want to pay that much. There's nothing there that justfies the added expense IMHO.
thanks. I look forward to the diesel. It got rave reviews in Europe. Like the new MB diesel profiled in Edmunds, it ran for 24 hrs at an average speed of 130-140mph or so. It is also very quiet and very fuel efficient.
"BMW 3-Series. Go to the options-thing. Put everything on it. 50K+. That's too much."
$50K+ for a 330i? The MSRP on a nicely equipped 330i (automatic transmission, premium package, metallic paint, fold-down rear seat, and carpeted floor mats) is $41,545. If Lexus tries to sell the IS350 at BMW prices, the IS350 will be a failure. I, and may others, will either buy a 330i or for thousands less, buy a G35. See my posting #3152 for additional information.
"What I don't understand is the relectance of companies like Mitsu and Saab (GM) - with one foot in the grave - to try to 'steal' market share by offering innovative products not offered by the bigger players. In both cases, that means turbo diesels."
While I dont know exactly what Mitsubishi has, getting a diesel certified for 2007 EPA standards is not easy. If the EPA doesnt like it, its not happening. VW had to stop selling the V-10 Toureg diesel because of this. Based on current general public perceptions of diesels vs. hybrids and the readily available HSD tech from Toyota (or IMA from Honda if they were interested in selling) if Mitsubishi asked me, I'd tell them to make a hybrid SUV.
As for Saab, GM is the puppet master controlling all the strings. GM doesnt seem interested in diesel cars for this market, so I'd say not gonna happen.
I had the same reaction to someone putting 41k down for a loaded G35 6mt. best i could get the thing to was 38k and that included some stupid aero package and navigation. of course carsdirect.com's price on that car was 33k. lol
Well, more prestigious than an entry level Infiniti; and equally prestigious as an entry 325 or A4 anyway. But less prestigious than an entry level MB. MB will always have the highest marquis name, always. Although their quality is severely lacking....
"MB will always have the highest marquis name, always." Nothing lasts forever.
So true, they have terrilbe reliability problems. Who wants to shell out big bucks and have your car in the shop all the time. That is why Lexus will eventually be the marquis name of the future.
I really don't think that they have the highest image, at least in many people's eyes. Lately their lower end cars (C-Class) have been outclassed and not quite up to the high BMW 3-Series standards. Their designs are starting to look a little aneimic, especially with the new S-Class. The CLS is a beauty, though. Overall, I think that Mercedes has a prestigious brand image. But they don't have the monopoly on that image that they used to have.
A car company that has the highest image and lowest quality! Somehow that just doesnt sound right!
Highest image and lowest quality was the perfect description for Jags during the 1960s. MB should take note of that in order to understand the horrors they may face in the future if they dont confront their quality issues. Otherwise DC's luxury arm MB may be taken over by Ford. Ok not Ford, but maybe Hyundai or Toyota?
Maybe it's a generational gap or location thing but I've never thought of MB/BMW/Lexus as anything special or prestigious. Expensive vis-a-vis ford/gm/honda/toyota but nothing really special about them. :confuse:
I've never thought of MB/BMW/Lexus as anything special or prestigious. Expensive vis-a-vis ford/gm/honda/toyota but nothing really special about them...
Really ? These companies must be doing a lousy job of differentiating their products from the likes of MOPAR, FOMOCO and TOYOTA.... Have you looked closely at your run-of-the-mill Ford or GM or Toyota and checked out a comparably-sized MB or BMW or Lexus sedan ? Find "nothing really special" about these sedans ????
generational gap it must be. To think that MB sedans had existed all these years with no differentiation from cars churned out at GM factories... Hmmmmm.....!!
Really ? These companies must be doing a lousy job of differentiating their products from the likes of MOPAR, FOMOCO and TOYOTA.... Have you looked closely at your run-of-the-mill Ford or GM or Toyota and checked out a comparably-sized MB or BMW or Lexus sedan ? Find "nothing really special" about these sedans ????
So the materials are better...the cars tend also to be more expensive. I pay more for something, I'd expect it to be a little nicer. paying extra though doesn't = prestigious in my eyes.
generational gap it must be. To think that MB sedans had existed all these years with no differentiation from cars churned out at GM factories... Hmmmmm.....!!
Both makes are common, mass produced items. We're not talking about exclusive vehicles that are unique and made in limited numbers. A Carrera GT or a McClaren SLR stand out not for the emblem on the hood but for being available in limited numbers. S600 or Chevy Cobalt...shrug nothing special about either car.
A guy rolls up in a 2007 Z06 Corvette and another in a 65 Stingray convertible....which car has it in spades? Not the 07 Vette.... Heck, 911 or NSX...I tip my hat to the NSX as it's still after 15 years a unique vehicle on the road while the 911 is as common as a 3 series in so cal.
There's far more to prestige than brand. Lexus/Toyota's closest car to a vehicle with that kinda instant presence would be...oh they've never made such a car. BMW's only made one in the Z8. MB's McClaren stands out to me. s55? that's a dentist's car.
I'm partial to the Continetal GT that was parked in front of the Casino in Monaco.
In the comodity world of cars, I could care less what badge is on the hood - that's for the folks who care about image. If Kia could make a 3200lb, mid-sized RWD 4 door sedan with a 6MT, that was reliable, got 30+MPG, 0-60 in less than 8s, had nice interior and exterior for less than $25K I'd buy it over an IS in a heartbeat. But alas, they don't make one (actually no one does) so I'll have to settle for an IS.
"There's far more to prestige than brand. Lexus/Toyota's closest car to a vehicle with that kinda instant presence would be...oh they've never made such a car."
Incorrect! Toyota (with the help of Yamaha) once made a car with enough "it" factor to make it into a James Bond movie. It was designed by Albrecht Goertz, a guy who worked on the BMW 507 and the Datsun 240Z. Interestingly enough, he and Yamaha presented it to Nissan, who rejected it. They then went to Toyota, who put it into production. The result was the 1967 Toyota 2000GT, pretty much the only Toyota that is a sought after collector car.
If Kia could make a 3200lb, mid-sized RWD 4 door sedan with a 6MT, that was reliable, got 30+MPG, 0-60 in less than 8s, had nice interior and exterior for less than $25K I'd buy it over an IS
Your prayers may soon be answered!
In a year or two Hyundai will be introducing a RWD luxury performance vehicle in N. America( I dont know about Switzerland). I am sure Hyundai's sibling Kia will have a version of such a car.
If the specs of the above Hyundai were impressive would many people buy the Hyundai over a Lexus or BMW? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Beyond a certain price point emotions and not reason drives car choice.
I'm not expecting much. As far as Hyundai has come, they are still about 15 years behind the best in terms of chassis design. A car like the '06 Sonata is good enough to compete with Camry and Accord, but they have nothing that can compete with the likes of 3 or IS. Their best V6 isnt nearly good enough for the performance class, and their cars still have weight problems because they still make everything from steel.
Again. Stick to the Lexus IS only, please. You are welcome to start a comparisons discussion elsewhere to talk about which brands have more prestige.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I put in enough hurdles in my needs that it will take any company a long time to get over those hurdles. Even the IS will tripped up by the milage number - with its piggish 3500lbs to pull around the law of physics will get in the way. Yes, the low cD of .27 will help the hwy number some, but it will be very difficult to up the city number with all that weight to pull around - regardless of the efficiency of the new engines.
Your hurdle is less than mine since you live in Europe.
At least you are able to buy a fuel efficient IS diesel. The low cD of .27 with a 2.2l diesel engine may make the IS quite a fuel miser. I would be interested to know what the performance specs are for the IS diesel!
The point is that those who'd buy a Kia or Hyundai bcos it has 80+% of what a Lexus or BMW has forgets they'll need to sell/get rid of that car someday. Re-sale value, anyone ? While a car may not be an investment, you'd like to get *something* for it downstream when its time to change into something else, unless of course, you are one of thise who drive their 10+ years.
Talking of the new IS, the projected weight should be a concern, despite the high HP of the 350. Maybe that's why its 0-60 is in the mid-5s, eh ? Do we not have the technology to make materials lighter and not add too much weight to cars ? Didn't Audi and Jag use lightweight aluminum bodies ? Why can't Lexus do same and cut down on the pudginess of the IS ?
The latest issue of R&T had an article about the IS500. Lexus is very serious about it. They want to go after the BMW M3. However, the price is somewhere between 80 and 90s. Yikes: I don't know if people will be willing to pay that much for the IS. The engine is a bored and stroked version of the 4.3L engine found in the GS and LS. Horspower is in the neighborhood of 400. I think it is safe to assume this car will have a true manual tranny.
The engine is a bored and stroked version of the 4.3L engine found in the GS and LS. Horspower is in the neighborhood of 400. I think it is safe to assume this car will have a true manual tranny.
"Even the IS will tripped up by the milage number - with its piggish 3500lbs to pull around the law of physics will get in the way."
Ha...have you checked out what the new Avalon and GS300 get for EPA figures?? The Avalon is over 3500 lbs. and so is the GS300. The Avalon gets 22/31 EPA figures for the 3.5L V6 and the GS300 around the same. IMO, that's pretty impressive gas mileage. The IS250/350 should follow suit.
Its not the same. The old inline was just that. It was a pretty low-tech engine, and none of the cars that used it (Supra, SC, IS, GS) ever had great gas mileage.
Since you brought it up...The TSX's gearing and tuning decreases the mileage of the 2.4L I4 in the Accord by a couple mpg's. So again, I still bet the relatively wild tuning/gearing the IS will be a little thirsty for a 2.5L engine in a car that size.
This is the "Next Lexus IS" message board. With all do respect I don't give a darn about the TSX, the Accord or any other make or model. Unless the posting includes IS information it should not be posted or accepted in this section (that includes comparions). Isn't there a message board dedicated to "Entry-Level Performance Luxury Sedans"? Let's stick to the topic, please. If I want information on these or other vehicles I can browse the appropriate boards. No malice intended.
This is a great car, but it has too many electronic nannies to be a great sport sedan.
looks like Lexus execs have found a way to *kill* another great idea ..... Why-o-why does this car need a VDIM nanny ????????????? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am an adult and need no nanny electronic shmuck... I am no happy camper right about now, especially since I had looked forward to this car so much.....Grrrrrrr !!!!!!!
Still, there's so much technology aboard the IS 350, the driver is too insulated from the driving. The electronic throttle's response isn't as crisp as we would like, the transmission takes too long to respond to the paddle shifters and the steering is precise and quick, but hardly communicative. It's enough to make you miss the old IS 300's nervy, adolescent edge.
Golly, sounds like fun.
The biggest downer, however, is the inability to disarm the VDIM system, which mutes the sedan's performance long before the limits of its chassis and its optional 18-inch summer-spec tires are reached (17-inch all-weather tires are standard). There's a great engine, a great chassis and spectacular brakes under all that electronic baby-sitting, but the VDIM system is so intrusive it's hard to tell.
It's as if Lexus isn't even listening to complaints!
BTW, can we stop hearing about the "only entry luxury sports sedan with over 300 horsepower" now? The blasted car has 8 more HP than a G35.
Maybe consider waiting for a detailed REview versus a PREview and, of course, your own test drive.
And, it is not beyond reason that Edmund's has a 3-series bias. But, I don't think this car was meant to be a "Lexus copy of a 3" - maybe this car will have a good balance of characteristics ((finding the sporty edge while still being a (more mature/non-boy- racer) LEXUS/luxury car - probably a difficult balance to find)). I am still optimistic.
If I wanted a 3 series, I would go buy one....unlike some that just prefer to [non-permissible content removed] about not having a 3 series with a Lexus badge (assuming they would actually buy a Lexus and are not just spoilers).
Handling limits? Lexus did say this VDIM will be less intrusive than on the GS -- I can safely say I will never even drive the car to it's full handling potential, even with the VDIM. I hope the others that think they will are on a track or empty rural road (and have more ability than the typical driver).
"BTW, can we stop hearing about the "only entry luxury sports sedan with over 300 horsepower" now? The blasted car has 8 more HP than a G35."
More importantly, a G35 6MT can already match the acceleration of the IS350. (So can the 3). The other things I love about the G, its exhaust note, road feel, the fact that Infiniti will let you spin one backwards if you really want to, all appear to be MIA here. I'm not going to write it off completely before I drive it, and I'm happy they were at least smart enough to keep the active steering system off it, but I'm disappointed overall.
Thanks for the info. It appears that some will not like the new IS. Based on what's been posted (so far), this IS may just be what I'm looking for. Let's face it, Lexus is not going to steal all of BMW's business (if any at all). However, the new IS will appeal to buyers who are not into racing (but with power available when required) and prefer the quietness, luxury and safety features that this Rear/AWD vehicle has to offer. Suits me fine. I agree with rotaryfan, if it doesn't suit an individual the Bimmer is still available.
"But, I don't think this car was meant to be a "Lexus copy of a 3"
Legally Lexus could not make a copy Bimmer because they would be sued by BMW. I dont know if you have been reading prior anouncements regarding the new IS, but Clements and some of the senior folks at Lexus views the BMW as their competitive target.
"....unlike some that just prefer to [non-permissible content removed] about not having a 3 series with a Lexus badge "
If it cant drive like a BMW it is not as good as a BMW. This isn't only about BMW but about being a luxury sport sedan that compete with the likes of the the G35 and Audi A4!
Clements was "retired". I think we can see why. The company has done a near complete 180 from the direction they insisted, starting about three years back, that they would travel.
I'm like BGDC in that I (as I've always said) will reserve final judgement for a test drive. That said, the review confirms my suspicions outright. They are offering a RWD ES in the entry bracket, styled as a baby GS.
Look at the demographic info. 30-45 year-olds? Same demographic target as a Buick LaCrosse. I have to laugh into my teacup at all those who insisted they were still going "sporty"! This is just more of the old Lexus, like the GS, which they needed just like a hole in the head.
So now the comments start to fly about how they don't have to be a BMW, which is hysterical to me, because the company stated in at least three PRs over the last three years that BMW was indeed the benchmark, and that the way to grow the brand from its sedate, saggy and aging base was by injecting that kind of driving experience into the sedan lineup, which is precisely the direction the outgoing model had started them! Sour grapes all 'round, apparently.
One thing to remember tho' is that this is the (pre)view of the pre-production car. Edmunds promises a full test drive in a couple of weeks, hopefully that will be on a production car.
I am not going to be an apologist for Lexus if the new IS fails to meet the needs of its target market - an entry lux sport sedan. Lexus has plenty of non-sport cars in the market (I already own an LS and want a true sport sedan with lux features) so there is a clear need for a true sporty sedan, and the IS is the logical choice. I am slightly disappointed with the preview from Edmund's, but will reserve my judgement until I actually do my test drive.
In the interim, I wait with baited breadth if Lexus will indeed put the *sport* into this car with a *VDIM-off* or *kill* button. LEXUS are you listening ???????
I'm gonna drive it and flog the bejezus out of the car. Ya never know until you're behind the wheel. It could be a blast.
But really, Lexus must be aware of boards and enthusiasts and magazines...they knew people were moaning about VDIM so why didn't they provide an off switch for it? Strange. You'd hope a manu would listen to the rumblings of buyers and make simple fixes.
I own a 03 G35, 04 BMW325ci and previously 95 325is. I very interested in the 350 as the 06 BMW's has lost a styling edge for me. I am waiting on the coupe versions of both before i buy. I think the 350 will fall between the g's raw power and the balance of the 3er. All are different cars for different tastes. I love driving both. As i see it, Lexus will give you more for luxury and sport then the bimmer for less $$. I think the new G in 07 or 08 may wind up being better then them all. As a company, Infiniti is dedicated to re-evaluting their products and updating them yearly trying to tailor to their customers. Thoughts?
". I think the new G in 07 or 08 may wind up being better then them all."
The same has been said about the IS about a year ago. The G35 may end up being bigger, more refined and more insulated...in other words it may resemble the upcoming IS.
Why?
Because the new IS will sell like hotcakes and Infiniti will want to share some of that success! Enthusiasts are a minority and satisfying the majority is what makes high sales voulume possible
As you pointed out yourself about Infiniti: "evaluting their products and updating them yearly trying to tailor to their customers."
If what you say is correct then Infiniti will neglect the minority of enthusiast and focus on the needs of the majority(refinement, luxury and increased size)
Comments
Additionally Infinity announced 1k incentive on the car, making car price at 27k.
I was considering 3er and G35, and it's a no brainer. I did not see the legendary "handling" of the 3 series. 3er is just a hype induced by the media and people trying convince themselves they didn't waste money.
Lexus has to price the new IS competitive to the market, but (like so many others) I feel that some of us will be priced out. Think of BMW 325 and 330, MBZ C230 and C350, the Lexus IS250 and Lexus IS350 will be priced along those lines. I'll tell you right now, the IS250 nicely equipped at 32-33K will sell like hot cakes. I see so many people driving around los angeles in MBZ C230's (which sell for about the same price), and these people do not buy this car because of its horsepower, or because of its sharp handling. People buy that car because they want to own a Mercedes. The same will be said with the Lexus IS250, but it will be a much better bang for the buck.
I'm just hopeful that I can get a nicely equipped IS350 with a moonroof and xenons, for about 37-38k. I still get the paddle shifters, keyless ignition, 300 plus hp, and all the other standard bells and whistles listed on lexus's site. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed, 2 1/2 months and we'll find out.
If so, then the media is even worse than I thought. Like I said before, the 3-Series is widely thought (and accepted, except by very few) to be the best handling car in its class, yes? I test drove a 330i a few weeks back and a G35 6MT about a month earlier. No competition. BMW didn't get where they were by media hype. I'll cede that their prices are high, but if someone is sane with the options, it shouldn't break 40k.
If the Lexus comes in fully loaded at 42K, I will jump and squeal for joy. That's a great price. Consider:
BMW 3-Series. Go to the options-thing. Put everything on it. 50K+. That's too much.
Volvo S60 R: Ditto. 48K. Ouch. A Volvo?
C-Class? You jest. Fully loaded C320: a hair over 50k.
A4? People actually think that the A4 is a tad cheaper. Not fully loaded: a loaded 3.1 will run you a pretty 54k.
Infiniti G35: ain't it a great car? Everyone seems to laud it so. Bottom line, fully loaded: 43K. Suddenly, 44k (or even 46k) for a more powerful IS350 doesn't look half bad. Of course, heaven forbid that anyone has to deal with all of the ghastly standard equipment on the IS!
((sarcasm on that last car))
Also, I don't see a better interior on the options list for the G35.
""do you live in Los Angeles, because I'm curious to know which dealership you've heard of that offers the G35 $1k less than invoice. For sheer financial purposes, a G35 will be an overall better bargain. Let's all be honest and frank, Lexus is the leader in the Japanese luxury segment. Acura, with the RL, is close but they need a V8 in their line up real bad. Their lack of not having a V8 killed arguably one of the best affordable supercars in the past 10 years or so (Acura NSX). Infiniti makes a solid car, but the Q45 is a depressing vehicle. I like the new M35 and M45, but those are more performance oriented vehicles.""
I like agreeing with people, so I will. Lexus has swung quite a bat since they collectively stunned the luxury car market back with the LS400. Acura is in dire need of a V8, and I also believe that the NSX could've kicked some major Ferrari, and its styling will never get old for me. People who have Q45's really like them, but the fact is that the Q45 isn't as good as the LS. Better than a Town Car or Deville.
::avoids flames::
Happy Monday
Yeah, an entry level lexus is prestigious.
I needed a good laugh, thanks.
I cant see the advantage of AWD if you are not living through tundra-like Canadian winters. In fact my wife and I commute with RWD cars during the nastiest winter days(sometimes with the help of Good Samaritans shovelling us out of snow banks)
with gas prices on the way up, I only want the necessary HP for normal driving
For the first time in my life I have been looking not only at performance specs but gas mileage. And as I repeated many times I do fancy the idea of a fuel efficient diesel IS(it just aint gonna happen)
2.2L diesel Lexus IS or 2.2L diesel TSX.
In my last post I did not answer you directly!
Honda has officially announced that they will introduce diesels during 07. So you may not have to wait long for a diesel TSX. If not a diesel TSX, then a Accord with a 2.2l diesel engine.
The difference is. Some will want an IS but think it's too expensive and move on to something else. Before you make that decision though you have to ask yourself will you still lust after the IS when you see one rolling by. If so you might as well bite the bullet and buy the it. I saw a GS the other day. Nice car. Didn't blow me away. The IS is a smaller version of that car. That, along with the previously mentioned reasons is when I decided I didn't want to pay that much. There's nothing there that justfies the added expense IMHO.
$50K+ for a 330i? The MSRP on a nicely equipped 330i (automatic transmission, premium package, metallic paint, fold-down rear seat, and carpeted floor mats) is $41,545. If Lexus tries to sell the IS350 at BMW prices, the IS350 will be a failure. I, and may others, will either buy a 330i or for thousands less, buy a G35. See my posting #3152 for additional information.
While I dont know exactly what Mitsubishi has, getting a diesel certified for 2007 EPA standards is not easy. If the EPA doesnt like it, its not happening. VW had to stop selling the V-10 Toureg diesel because of this. Based on current general public perceptions of diesels vs. hybrids and the readily available HSD tech from Toyota (or IMA from Honda if they were interested in selling) if Mitsubishi asked me, I'd tell them to make a hybrid SUV.
As for Saab, GM is the puppet master controlling all the strings. GM doesnt seem interested in diesel cars for this market, so I'd say not gonna happen.
So true, they have terrilbe reliability problems. Who wants to shell out big bucks and have your car in the shop all the time. That is why Lexus will eventually be the marquis name of the future.
Highest image and lowest quality was the perfect description for Jags during the 1960s. MB should take note of that in order to understand the horrors they may face in the future if they dont confront their quality issues. Otherwise DC's luxury arm MB may be taken over by Ford. Ok not Ford, but maybe Hyundai or Toyota?
Really ? These companies must be doing a lousy job of differentiating their products from the likes of MOPAR, FOMOCO and TOYOTA.... Have you looked closely at your run-of-the-mill Ford or GM or Toyota and checked out a comparably-sized MB or BMW or Lexus sedan ? Find "nothing really special" about these sedans ????
generational gap it must be. To think that MB sedans had existed all these years with no differentiation from cars churned out at GM factories... Hmmmmm.....!!
So the materials are better...the cars tend also to be more expensive. I pay more for something, I'd expect it to be a little nicer. paying extra though doesn't = prestigious in my eyes.
generational gap it must be. To think that MB sedans had existed all these years with no differentiation from cars churned out at GM factories... Hmmmmm.....!!
Both makes are common, mass produced items. We're not talking about exclusive vehicles that are unique and made in limited numbers. A Carrera GT or a McClaren SLR stand out not for the emblem on the hood but for being available in limited numbers. S600 or Chevy Cobalt...shrug nothing special about either car.
A guy rolls up in a 2007 Z06 Corvette and another in a 65 Stingray convertible....which car has it in spades? Not the 07 Vette.... Heck, 911 or NSX...I tip my hat to the NSX as it's still after 15 years a unique vehicle on the road while the 911 is as common as a 3 series in so cal.
There's far more to prestige than brand. Lexus/Toyota's closest car to a vehicle with that kinda instant presence would be...oh they've never made such a car. BMW's only made one in the Z8. MB's McClaren stands out to me. s55? that's a dentist's car.
In the comodity world of cars, I could care less what badge is on the hood - that's for the folks who care about image. If Kia could make a 3200lb, mid-sized RWD 4 door sedan with a 6MT, that was reliable, got 30+MPG, 0-60 in less than 8s, had nice interior and exterior for less than $25K I'd buy it over an IS in a heartbeat. But alas, they don't make one (actually no one does) so I'll have to settle for an IS.
Incorrect! Toyota (with the help of Yamaha) once made a car with enough "it" factor to make it into a James Bond movie. It was designed by Albrecht Goertz, a guy who worked on the BMW 507 and the Datsun 240Z. Interestingly enough, he and Yamaha presented it to Nissan, who rejected it. They then went to Toyota, who put it into production. The result was the 1967 Toyota 2000GT, pretty much the only Toyota that is a sought after collector car.
Your prayers may soon be answered!
In a year or two Hyundai will be introducing a RWD luxury performance vehicle in N. America( I dont know about Switzerland). I am sure Hyundai's sibling Kia will have a version of such a car.
If the specs of the above Hyundai were impressive would many people buy the Hyundai over a Lexus or BMW? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Beyond a certain price point emotions and not reason drives car choice.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
At least you are able to buy a fuel efficient IS diesel. The low cD of .27 with a 2.2l diesel engine may make the IS quite a fuel miser. I would be interested to know what the performance specs are for the IS diesel!
The point is that those who'd buy a Kia or Hyundai bcos it has 80+% of what a Lexus or BMW has forgets they'll need to sell/get rid of that car someday. Re-sale value, anyone ? While a car may not be an investment, you'd like to get *something* for it downstream when its time to change into something else, unless of course, you are one of thise who drive their 10+ years.
Talking of the new IS, the projected weight should be a concern, despite the high HP of the 350. Maybe that's why its 0-60 is in the mid-5s, eh ? Do we not have the technology to make materials lighter and not add too much weight to cars ? Didn't Audi and Jag use lightweight aluminum bodies ? Why can't Lexus do same and cut down on the pudginess of the IS ?
Anyway... I put down a deposit on Saturday
that's pretty sorry given the size of the engine.
Ha...have you checked out what the new Avalon and GS300 get for EPA figures?? The Avalon is over 3500 lbs. and so is the GS300. The Avalon gets 22/31 EPA figures for the 3.5L V6 and the GS300 around the same. IMO, that's pretty impressive gas mileage. The IS250/350 should follow suit.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=106455#25
Verdict ?
This is a great car, but it has too many electronic nannies to be a great sport sedan.
looks like Lexus execs have found a way to *kill* another great idea ..... Why-o-why does this car need a VDIM nanny ????????????? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am an adult and need no nanny electronic shmuck... I am no happy camper right about now, especially since I had looked forward to this car so much.....Grrrrrrr !!!!!!!
also, is the VDIM controlled by the ECU? If so, could there be an aftermarket solution "someday" (e.g. flashing the ECU software)?
Just wonderin'
Any idea why the power ratings are less than the Canadian version (310hp/280 torque)? Emissions perhaps?
Golly, sounds like fun.
The biggest downer, however, is the inability to disarm the VDIM system, which mutes the sedan's performance long before the limits of its chassis and its optional 18-inch summer-spec tires are reached (17-inch all-weather tires are standard). There's a great engine, a great chassis and spectacular brakes under all that electronic baby-sitting, but the VDIM system is so intrusive it's hard to tell.
It's as if Lexus isn't even listening to complaints!
BTW, can we stop hearing about the "only entry luxury sports sedan with over 300 horsepower" now? The blasted car has 8 more HP than a G35.
And, it is not beyond reason that Edmund's has a 3-series bias. But, I don't think this car was meant to be a "Lexus copy of a 3" - maybe this car will have a good balance of characteristics ((finding the sporty edge while still being a (more mature/non-boy- racer) LEXUS/luxury car - probably a difficult balance to find)). I am still optimistic.
If I wanted a 3 series, I would go buy one....unlike some that just prefer to [non-permissible content removed] about not having a 3 series with a Lexus badge (assuming they would actually buy a Lexus and are not just spoilers).
Handling limits? Lexus did say this VDIM will be less intrusive than on the GS -- I can safely say I will never even drive the car to it's full handling potential, even with the VDIM. I hope the others that think they will are on a track or empty rural road (and have more ability than the typical driver).
Cheers
More importantly, a G35 6MT can already match the acceleration of the IS350. (So can the 3). The other things I love about the G, its exhaust note, road feel, the fact that Infiniti will let you spin one backwards if you really want to, all appear to be MIA here. I'm not going to write it off completely before I drive it, and I'm happy they were at least smart enough to keep the active steering system off it, but I'm disappointed overall.
Legally Lexus could not make a copy Bimmer because they would be sued by BMW. I dont know if you have been reading prior anouncements regarding the new IS, but Clements and some of the senior folks at Lexus views the BMW as their competitive target.
"....unlike some that just prefer to [non-permissible content removed] about not having a 3 series with a Lexus badge "
If it cant drive like a BMW it is not as good as a BMW. This isn't only about BMW but about being a luxury sport sedan that compete with the likes of the the G35 and Audi A4!
I'm like BGDC in that I (as I've always said) will reserve final judgement for a test drive. That said, the review confirms my suspicions outright. They are offering a RWD ES in the entry bracket, styled as a baby GS.
Look at the demographic info. 30-45 year-olds? Same demographic target as a Buick LaCrosse. I have to laugh into my teacup at all those who insisted they were still going "sporty"! This is just more of the old Lexus, like the GS, which they needed just like a hole in the head.
So now the comments start to fly about how they don't have to be a BMW, which is hysterical to me, because the company stated in at least three PRs over the last three years that BMW was indeed the benchmark, and that the way to grow the brand from its sedate, saggy and aging base was by injecting that kind of driving experience into the sedan lineup, which is precisely the direction the outgoing model had started them! Sour grapes all 'round, apparently.
Remember Pee Wee Herman? "I meant to do that!"
Riiiight...
I am not going to be an apologist for Lexus if the new IS fails to meet the needs of its target market - an entry lux sport sedan. Lexus has plenty of non-sport cars in the market (I already own an LS and want a true sport sedan with lux features) so there is a clear need for a true sporty sedan, and the IS is the logical choice. I am slightly disappointed with the preview from Edmund's, but will reserve my judgement until I actually do my test drive.
In the interim, I wait with baited breadth if Lexus will indeed put the *sport* into this car with a *VDIM-off* or *kill* button. LEXUS are you listening ???????
But really, Lexus must be aware of boards and enthusiasts and magazines...they knew people were moaning about VDIM so why didn't they provide an off switch for it? Strange. You'd hope a manu would listen to the rumblings of buyers and make simple fixes.
The same has been said about the IS about a year ago. The G35 may end up being bigger, more refined and more insulated...in other words it may resemble the upcoming IS.
Why?
Because the new IS will sell like hotcakes and Infiniti will want to share some of that success! Enthusiasts are a minority and satisfying the majority is what makes high sales voulume possible
As you pointed out yourself about Infiniti: "evaluting their products and updating them yearly trying to tailor to their customers."
If what you say is correct then Infiniti will neglect the minority of enthusiast and focus on the needs of the majority(refinement, luxury and increased size)